Trash talk journalism gone too far? Pittsburgher & Denver fans may want to see this!
 

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...396183,00.html

Now, it's one thing to trash talk your opponent in a big game, or even make some jokes about the city, etc. But is this guy's column taking it too far?

There's blatant lies and things that couldn't possibly be true. He talks about "Old mills, long stilled, dot the town. Weeds spill from smokestacks.". Nope, sorry. There's not a single steel mill left in the city, and you have to go pretty far out to get to any- we're talking into the rural areas. I've never seen a steel mill, and i'm 25 and my law practice revolves strongly involves them.

He calls the skyline dark and forbidding. Forbidding could be loosely interpreted, but dark? Hardly.

He says that on the way to his hotel he saw a guy standding on a busy street corner, wearing a halter-top dress holding a sign that said "I BET AGAINST THE STEELERS." Granted, this did happen and it was all over the news, but it was no where near the city, and there's no way he could have seen it as it took place about 20 miles from the city, no where near the route he would've taken to get between the airport and his hotel.

Again, I understand a little trash talk or if the criticisms were legit. But to say things that are blatantly false? I'm sure our tourism bureau and politicians will be up in arms about this.

Well...

Maybe the guy got lost and ended up in Youngstown.

Or maybe you don't realize (and I say this carefully, having grown up and worked a major portion of my life in what is now called the "rust belt"), how different your perspective on cities becomes after living in Denver with our 300 days of sunshine every year, and the fact that this is a much younger city -- both in literal age and demographics.

During a past AFC Championship series, I spent a few days in Buffalo, and the only discriptive word I could think of was "Gray."

Anyway, this is pretty normal during buildups to this kind of event.

We'll all get over it.

A different perspective doesn't justify making blatantly false statements.

Re: Trash talk journalism gone too far? Pittsburgher & Denver fans may want to see this!
 

Maybe he really wasn't there... (I didn't read the article)

There was a case on some morning judge show where a young lady suit a newspaper that she was doing some freelance work for. Turns out that she went to the town for the game, but hung out with her friends at a bar instead of actually going to the game. She wrote the story based on what was on TV.

This guy is so full of shit.

I don't know how you could call our skyline "dark and forbidding" when everyone I know who comes in through the tunnel says how beautiful it is. (It is.) I mean, it's not like this is Erie. (Just kidding, Erie kids.)

Oh and Jack's - don't get me STARTED on Jack's. Anyone who thinks it's a representation of all of Pgh is stupid, and anyone you run into on the street here will tell you so. Its only good feature is that it's open when nothing else is. On the weekends it's full of obnoxious fratty boys (and yes I mean it in that sense). He should have gone a few blocks down the street to Dee's, around the corner to Club Cafe, or further down the street to the Blue Note/Primanti's.

Come here with a chip on your shoulder, and that's how you will be treated.

No - and (I've only been to Pittsburgh once) if he embellished about the smokestacks and mills, then he shouldn't have done so.

The rest though just strikes me as standard fare for a columnist from the rival's city. Maybe he sees the skyline as dark and forbidding; I've heard worse things said about the city I live in (Boston) and the closest city to where I grew up (Hartford). Heck, Keith Olbermann's quote about my hometown is that it looks best "in your rearview mirror." Sports personalities say things about this all the time during the playoffs, big games, etc., when talking about their rival's city.

Embellishing is one thing, and that's not good journalism - but the rest is just standard fare in many sports columns. It's great to love where you're living, but I think everyone has to expect that their city is open to criticism.

The story doesn't seem different from so many others I've seen. I don't see how this is going too far.

I saw Pitt a long time ago and it wasn't exactly pretty. Maybe it changed. Heck I was a kid. Who knows. But I saw Flash Dance the other day and the place looked awful. The dancers there look hot though and that was one smoking loft she had was pretty nicer for a dancer's budget.

-Rudey

Key word - column. This is simply one guy's opinion on the city. He can describe it however he wants, really, including the embellishments. That's how he sets the tone of his column.

From reading the article, I gathered more that Pitt loves its football, not that it's a dirty town.

So Pittsburgh doesn't have steel mills now? I had no idea.

Nearly all of them closed down between about 20 and 25 years ago. The ones that were in the immediate area of the city have been demolished and gone as far back as my memory serves me. Some mills in the outlying areas may have stayed open longer, but in general, steel in Pittsburgh (and the United States in general) all but disappeared in the early/mid 80's.

Actually, that was the major thing I took away from the column as well.

So you're going to be defensive over some sports writer's opinion of Pittsburgh? How can "dark and forbidding" be false? It's an opinion. People who live there disagree. Oh well.

If anyone there wants to trash talk Denver, I don't give a rat's ass, but I suspect it would be hard to come up with many bad things to say. I just hope rental car employees here don't go batshit crazy on customers for no good reason.

Like Danielle said, some of the things he said are just UNTRUE. That's the major gripe here. Yeah, some of the outlying suburbs are not the prettiest, but as far as Downtown the things he said are just off (like the old mills dotting the "town" - there are NO steel mills within Downtown limits). It's like saying Lincoln Park = Chicago. If he wants to write about the MSA, fine, but say that's what you're doing. We're all very sick here of reading lies about our city and having people believe that's what it's about.

And it's THE South Side. grrrrr.

Umm how is Lincoln Park not Chicago?

Here is a map of Chicago for you: http://www.newviewrealty.com/neighborhoodinfo.aspx
Nobody I know lives in the trash neighborhoods in the borders, but clearly Lincoln Park is a couple miles away from Downtown and one of the better neighborhoods.

-Rudey

I think you could come up with bad things to say about almost any city or town. If you're a big sports city (like Pittsburgh, Denver, Boston, etc.), at this time of year, you'd better be ready to hear something from the columnists.

If some columnist from Pittsburgh or wherever wants to say that Lincoln Park = Chicago, who cares? Why would that bother anybody?

Of course dude is just talking crap about a rival. Anybody who takes something like that seriously and forms an opinion on Pittsburgh as a result isn't that bright anyway, so who in the hell cares.

Honestly, I'd be happy if people talked shit about Denver. If more people knew how awesome it was, they'd all move here. I like to perpetuate the myth that it's always freezing and covered with snow, and that the only beer is Coors. That'll scare people away.

First of all, ye unfortunates who have not seen Pittsburgh within the past 20 years, you must realize that as citizens, we collectively bristle like porcupines on steroids when outsiders insist on calling this a steel town. Or punctuate every sentence with a reference to "shot and a beer", "a hard town", "dark and forbidding skyline" or of course, any mention of the long-gone steel mills. I can personally name three people with whom I am no longer speaking because of such an incident involving hard hats (n'nat). In fact, I saw my very first steel mill near Pittsburgh just THIS SUMMER.

No weeds grow out of steel mills because they have all been torn down, and replaced by either the medical or data processing industries. Pittsburgh is in the top ten of the country in both areas. Dr. Christian Barnard may have done the first heart transplant, but it was perfected here!

The columnist is trying to stir the pot with old, worn out myths in order to make his point, and in doing so, ends up making himself look ridiculous. Yes, this is Steeler Nation - but I don't see him talking about the number of buildings with black & gold windows, with every third person in black & gold, or pets dyed black & gold (yeah, that last one's pretty unfortunate). Yes, a man's heart did stop when Jerome Bettis fumbled - but he did live. This is the very first modern article about Pittsburgh which does NOT mention the friendliness of the people - think he may have been a bit obnoxious during his stay?

Pittsburgh is a vital, friendly, and yes, football town. USA Today rated us the second most beautiful in the USA - after Red Rocks, CO. If you act like a jerk about our Steelers, expect to be treated like the jerk you are. We have four Super Bowl trophies to back up how we feel about our Steelers, and we'll probably even lend you a Terrible Towel to dry your tears as you look at them.

Oh, and for those who insist that Pittsburgh is so ugly, this photo is the viewpoint from which this columnist wrote:

http://www.stadiumpictures.com/Drien..._P64_small.jpg

I tried to be fair and post a dark image, but none are available which aren't over 50 years old.

And today, the dork attempts to backpedal. Although not very well. :rolleyes:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...399014,00.html

LOL Yinz.

Again - I understand that if facts were incorrect, that is a problem.

However, I don't think ANY city is above criticism. Pittsburgh may be a great place to live and work; I've heard lots of good things about it, on this board and through other people. That doesn't mean that there aren't some people that find it dark or whatever, or who have bad experiences with the people.

Maybe I've just been exposed too much to criticism like that in cities where I've lived or lived near. I guess I'm just immune to it at this point, no matter the pride I have in my current city or home state...

Well, I'll put it this way:

I'm going to Chicago. I hope I don't get shot by Al Capone and his mob.

I'm going to Boston. I will see people dressed like Indians dumping tea in the harbor.

You would think someone was an idiot if they said that - so why isn't it the same when someone makes similar references that are almost as outdated about someplace else?

Hey, I hear there are alot of strip clubs in Pittsburgh. Is that true?

This one chick I met from the Burgh was tellin me how there are strip clubs everywhere. She also told me how everyone is obsessed and people shut down their businesses on Sunday for the Steelers.

I'm not saying he's all that smart for making those statements - since there are no mills in Pittsburgh, it's not a bright statement to say that there are. If he's making up facts about the city, that's wrong. I've maintained that in all of my posts, and I'm not defending his right to make up factual information.

I'm just saying that columns like this are par for the course. When he's saying things like that the skyline is dark or that the people he met acted a certain way, you'll hear things like that about any city. Opinions like that, right or wrong, are made about cities on a daily basis. People come to Boston and say that the people are cold, that the nightlife is weak, and that the sports fans are desperate. People go to Hartford and wonder how anyone could possibly like Connecticut.

That's McKees Rocks. Not Pittsburgh.

I would think "Damn, Shelia's got some cracked-out opinions, but whatev, that's her deal."

Those aren't really good examples because one refers to events 80 years ago and the other refers to events 250+ years ago; according to Dani, the steel mills only shut down 25 or so years ago and I bet many people who don't live in Pittsburgh or even Pennsylvania are aware of this. I wasn't and it looks like I'm not the only one.

If the guy would have read his own column, he should have realized the kind of feedback he was going to get -- he basically says the people of Pittsburgh live, breathe and die Steelers football and to say anything different to a fan is taking your own life into your hands.

But I still maintain the whole point of his first column isn't about how dirty or dark the city is, it's about how much that city loves its football. That what I, as a person who has very little knowledge about Pittsburgh or Steelers football, came away with after reading it.

And I'm not saying you don't have the right to be offended by his column, or sing the praises of your city, you certainly do.

Dude that article is hilarious. Kddanni, my heart, do you want me to write an article back bashing Denver? Seriously, I can say how Denver is not really that big of a deal, and that everything about Denver is brokeback.

Exactly.

And I hate to be the voice of dissent, but from what I recall of Pittsburgh, "dark and forbidding" would not be that big of a stretch. Obviously not the whole city -- there were some lovely parts -- and granted this was 8-10 years ago, but I was not that impressed. I travelled a lot as a kid, and I had a more negative gut reaction to Pittsburgh than I've ever had to any other city . . . including Detroit. So I tend to defend the Pittsburgh-haters because I know where they're coming from.

It's a newspaper sports column. It's not the height of responsible journalism, and it's not supposed to be. You want to read something nice about Pittsburgh, go pick up a book of Jack Gilbert poems or something.

I'm dating myself, but I remember steel mills!

I remember driving over the bridge to get to Kennywood and seeing the Homestead works where Waterside is now.

I even remember when I lived out near the county airport for awhile that we actually didn't have some school some days because the air quality was so bad because of the US Steel Clairton works.

And I can definitely remember walking down the hill from my house to my elementary school and seeing the Blawnox works with the Allegheny River behind it and wondering if the water would rush into the mill when the back door was open. (so, maybe I didn't have the greatest depth perception...that's not the point of the story!)

Steel mills really weren't such a bad thing (aside from that whole air quality thing which was eventually addressed by the EPA). They provided well-paying jobs for many of the men in my family and Pittsburghers in general.

That said, Dani, Sheila and Honey are right that there aren't any mills within the city. So even if this an opinion piece we're discussing, he was still wrong to write that.

Pittsburghers do love their football, though, no way to deny that. And I think that was really the gist of the column.

Is Pittsburgh as bright and pretty as San Diego? It didn't look like it on Flash Dance.

-Rudey

Wait, what city sucks more? Detroit or Pittsburgh? I would guess Detroit right? Isn't Detroit filled with mutants?

Atleast Pittsburgh doesn't have TJ breathing down its neck

What area(s) were you in?

That's why I made the Lincoln Park comment - obviously all of Chicagoland is not like one suburb. All of Pittsburgh (I'm talking the whole area, not just downtown) is like the South Side or Downtown or Greentree or Rankin.

I just think this kind of writing is ridiculous and like honeychile said, makes him look like the idiot. I don't get that he's appreciative of how much we love the Steelers - it's like he's saying the town sucks, our team has a sucky name and we're losers to be this into a football team.

...and you're certainly welcome to that interpretation. You all have a right to defend your city. I was just giving my opinion that every city gets criticized in some way, fair or not.

I saw the article the other way, that he was saying that Pittsburgh loves its football team and is very passionate about it, especially now during the playoffs.

Is Cabrini Green in Lincoln Park? Because ever since I saw the movie Candyman when I was a kid, I've been scared to death to go to Chicago.

Suburb? Again, look at the map. It's right outside of the Downtown region. I have never heard anyone refer to it as a suburb. I've lived in the South Side, downtown and in Lincoln Park.

As for the image of Pitt being a steel town, it is. It was built on steel. The mills have only been gone a short while. Here are 3 steel corporations located inside Pittburgh:
U S Steel Corporation: Headquarters & General Offices - 0.1 miles NE - 600 Grant St, Pittsburgh, 15219 - (412) 433-1121
Allegheny Ludlum - 1.3 miles SE - 1000 Six PPG pl, Pittsburgh, 15203 - (412) 394-2800
Quality Rolls - 0.8 miles SE - 1101 Muriel St, Pittsburgh, 15203 - (412) 431-8250

I don't know if all the old mills are gone or if some were converted to other uses. If there isn't a single one to be seen in any form, then it's a fallacy but it's not the end of the world. The city may get revitalized and it may not be steel fumes in the air every day, but it's not like you are waking up to the sun, the warmth and the ocean. This is his opinion. Just like I can find the Bronx to be ugly, this guy can find Pittsburgh to be ugly. Anything else, is anti-American.

-Rudey

It's considered the Near North so it's flanked by all of Chicago's wealthy neighborhoods.

And the CHA has provided some of the nicest low and mixed-income housing I have ever seen to former Cabrini tenants. A lot of the land was bought and revitalized.

-Rudey

The thing about Detroit is that it's ugly but it has some killer house music. Off topic, but my least favorite city ever visited is St. Louis (assuming Gary, Indiana doesn't count as a city).

I just don't understand why people are so defensive if there isn't a grain of truth in what the guy was saying.

I've been to St. Louis. I didn't think it was that crappy. I stayed downtown, and it was pretty safe walking around. My only complaint was that there was absolutely nothing to do there. And the women were nothing to brag about. Oh, and I don't know why but every person there got mad when we asked them if they knew Nelly. Screw them.

I think the city that I hate the most if Philadelphia. Everyone there is ugly, acts ugly, is fat, acts fat, the sun never shines there, cold and miserable.

No wonder Wills mom sent him to bel air.

"Detroit house" really had its heyday years ago - other than that, I couldn't agree any more with this post, also assuming Gary doesn't count separately from Chicago.

Being from Detroit and having visited Pittsburgh quite a few times, I see a lot of similarities between the two. Both used their pretty river fronts for industry instead of for entertainment/shopping districts/parks and are trying to turn that around now. The first time I was ever in Pittsburgh, I thought to myself "A lot of their bricks are colored black from the years of industry here, just like in Detroit". We have some awesome architecture in Detroit but the bricks are dirty. I don't know if it's even possible to clean them. Just like Pittsburgh, Detroit is trying to rebuild their image and build newer, cleaner looking buildings. It takes time. I liked Pittsburgh and I like Detroit now. Hopefully the newer face of Detroit will be shown for all during the Super Bowl, while the Steelers play at Ford Field!

BTW, we still have numerous steel mills in the suburbs of Detroit.