Will Dr. King's Dream ever come true?
 

I hope so, I wish that during my lifetime that this world will change and that people will stop judging other's based on the color of their skin.

I guess when people are not "forced" to only live in certain city/neighborhoods (housing discrimination) or when going into a store are not followed or sterotyped based on their skin color thing will start to change.

I guess when racist are seen as terrorists in this country then maybe our President will fight hard to improve things in this country.

But until then I guess those who want to change this country (myself included) have to work harder to achieve Dr. King's dream.

I think only when people quit being afraid of someone or something different, will we see "The Dream" start to become reality. You can pass legislation out the wazoo, but until people realize the truth behind equality, it won't happen.

There have been baby steps, to be sure, but surely the greatest country in the world can do better than that!

I think you're right. The phrase "you can't legislate morality" is true. The real changes in this country have to come from within each and every individual. The reason the suffering occured for so long is that there were too many INDIVIDUALS who harbored racism and their being the numerical majority alone, let alone political majority, allowed the government to condone the actions of those people. The government is merely an entity comprised of people and if it weren't for the hate and evil in the hearts of so many people, the government wouldn't have had to ability to sanction so much horrible behavior. So now that the government has officially removed itself from the equation, the responsibility is on individual persons to change themselves and not allow their own actions to further the suffering of people who have already had to put up with so much for so long.

In the end, as a Christian, that is what I believe each and every person's role in this world is anyway. Each person has to account for the thoughts and actions and ways of his heart to God and no matter what the government does or does not do, each person has the ability to take his own stand (or not) and make a difference (or not).

Re: Will Dr. King's Dream ever come true?
 

I have some hope.

Last night at supper, we asked MysticCat Jr, an 8-year-old second grader to explain to his 5-year-old sister who MLK was and why we were remembering him. (We didn't tell him he was also completing some Cub Scout advancement requirements by having a discussion on courage, standing for what's right when it's not popular, and acting in accordance with religious beliefs.) Ms MysticCat and I were very impressed at (1) how much he knew and how well he explained it all to his sister, and (2) his reactions to what things used to be like, such as complete disbelief at the idea of segregated schools. (He was surprised when I told him that I didn't go to an integrated school until fifth grade.) When we brought up the fact that MLK was a minister and that he drew on his beliefs in fighting for equality, MysticCat Jr responded by asking: "What about all the people who didn't like what he was doing? Didn't they read the part about all people being created in the image of God?"

All in all, it gave me hope.

My town and yours is probably run over by Chinese restaurants, Patel-owned motels, Korean groceries, and ethnic establishments - most run by first generation immigrants. These people have worked hard, supported one another with advice, loans, and patronage, and live the American dream.

Some others think the dream is a winning lottery ticket, thug culture and music, sperm-donating absent daddies, and a welfare check.

In other words, the successful groups are relying on themselves.

The unsuccessful think someone else, and more of someone else's money, and some more legislation, and slogans, are the only path to success.

To summarize: DO IT YOURSELF.

Just when I was feeling encouraged by MysticCat81's post, I read this one and began to wonder all over again.:(

So True.

I agree with you. I feel sorry for them that they lump people into one group.

I meant to encourage you to do it yourself.

That's the only way.

i think that one thing that might help us on the way, would be if people wouldn't separate themselves by ethnicity. in other words, i think that when people quit saying, "i am a black (or african) american, an asian american, a latin american, etc. and just say, " i am an american", that will help.

i try to do that myself by describing what a person is wearing, or what they said, or what they did, rather than saying, "oh you remember, the black woman", or "the asian man". like honey said, baby steps are a start, and will get us on the way.

While I am all for self-empowerment, a large part of Dr. King's message was that we need to eliminate the societal conditions that create the situation that you originally described (conditions that often do not affect many immigrants, esp. European and Asian immigrants). If you have missed this point then I am forced to think that we are a ways off from truly achieving his dream.

Damn. I don't even know where to begin.

I don't think that he missed the point, its more that people like him refuse to SEE the point. Remember in my first post when I said the problem is in the numbers of individuals who don't get it and perpetuate the hatred? Here ya go. Now you know, and I know you know because we all see people who think like him around everyday, that this wall of ignorance that he represents is a large part of why no change or at the very least very little change is occurring in this area of society. They think well the laws changed so everything is fine, when the changing of the laws was just the tip of the tip of the iceberg.

Exactly! These are the mindsets that keep us rooted in place. How can we ever truly address these issues if people refuse to admit that it is more than mere individual laziness that causes them?

I agree. The only way is for people to change the way they think. And I've seen some encouraging signs, but you really have to wonder how much has really changed when you hear people refer to MLK Day as...well, something else.

I am more concerned about the content of that person's character be they Black or White. What is sorely needed in our country is character, a return to the golden rule, and peace among all people!

AMEN!!!

http://www.shanmonster.com/2005/scaredkitty.jpg

But seriosly, steretypes of blacks really do not help the advancement of Dr. King's message. If anything, he fought against this.

I would hope that people understand that not EVERY (heck, not even the majority) of blacks think, live, or believe in the dream of the lottery ticket and legislation. Don't let ONE side shade your whole view of people. I like Lady of Pearl's post - judge people on their character...not on generalizations. Heck, if we're going to generalize, let's talk about all the positive, college educated and above blacks on this board that work hard and contribute positively to their local communities. :D Generalize that!

Is his family still fighting each other or is that done now?

-Rudey

One son, MLK III I think, didn't show up for the big MLK excitement in ATL Mon.

Half the family wants to stick the govt. with the MLK Center (now needs $13 mil repairs/updates), and half want to hang on to it (but would be willing to let the govt. pay for the repairs). The lib Atlanta newspaper has a crusade against the family, and it gets a lot of coverage.

The wife/mother (who lives in nice Peachtree St. Condo Oprah gave her) has unfortunately suffered a stroke, and can not speak or walk. She has recovered enough to make an appearance at a banquet last weekend.

And another part of that message is that we all need to work together to achieve progress. Self-empowerment is great, but it has to be balanced by involvement to better the community.

No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

All I'm saying is that the Dream, Self-empowerment, involvement, utopian society, take a holistic approach that goes beyond the issue of the color of one's skin, advancement in opportunities, etc. will all come sooner, and be even better, if you do it yourself.

They might eventually come, but I doubt it, thru slogans and govt. programs.

Hi MysticCat,

My post was in response to Hoosier's post, which implied that folks would be better off if they simply take responsibility for themselves, rather than relying on others. I was pointing out that, while that is important, it is also quite important that we work as a community to alleviate some of the conditions that make self-empowerment difficult. I think that your post said essentially the same thing, but please let me know if I mis-read it.

You didn't misread it. Perhaps I wasn't clear in the way I quoted you.

I was agreeing with your response to Hoosier's post and adding my own $0.02. That's all.

Of course, if laws or other societal conditions prevent you from doing it yourself, well then the advice to "do it yourself" availeth little. Remember Jim Crow?

I'm not at all discounting personal responsibility. But I'm also not discounting the importance of the community providing an even playing field. The field may be more level than it used to be, but there is still work to be done to make it even.

Good point.

Gotcha! :D

Exactly!

Just this morning, there was an obituary for a white man who hocked his ring to buy lottery tickets, and hit for the whole ball of wax. His life was hell from there on. So, the myth of blacks being the big lottery ticket buyers ends there.

As for lending a helping hand, my (biracial) cousin was one of the first out of state nurses to volunteer in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, not me. She's a wife & mother who put herself through school while raising a family - I depended on scholarships, family, and working. Can't call her lazy!

As Honeykiss has said, there a quite a few (hundreds?) of people of color who are on GreekChat - they seem to be taking care of themselves, not depending on public assistance.

In my job, I see a lot of strange people (and that's the understatement of the year!). I know quite a few people who are on public asistance or SSI - illegally. One family has FOUR generations of sponging of the government - and they're descendents of one of the Signers of the Declaration of Independence! Another myth blown.

Whoever said that his & my ancestors worked hard to get where they were, yes, they did work hard (at least, I know mine did). But are you trying to insinuate that slaves worked less hard? At least our ancestors were PAID for what they did!

I'll say it again: until we start looking at each other as people (or as said, at the person's character) FIRST, then the color of their skin, we will perpetuate racism.

I don't believe that hoosier ever mentioned any specific race.

Now if people read his post and assumed it was geared to a certain race...well that says something.

What? What a bizarre post - an anecdote doesn't prove or disprove anything, just like hoosier's non sequitur post neither creates nor destroys any 'mythology' . . .

Unless you're calling yourself lazy, this almost comes off as a backhanded compliment - really, this was a mind-bending post. How does this relate to Dr. Martin Luther King's stated dream for American society?

To quote Hoosier:

My town and yours is probably run over by Chinese restaurants, Patel-owned motels, Korean groceries, and ethnic establishments - most run by first generation immigrants. These people have worked hard, supported one another with advice, loans, and patronage, and live the American dream.

Some others think the dream is a winning lottery ticket, thug culture and music, sperm-donating absent daddies, and a welfare check.

In other words, the successful groups are relying on themselves.

The unsuccessful think someone else, and more of someone else's money, and some more legislation, and slogans, are the only path to success.

(Emphasis added.)

Quote:

Now if people read his post and assumed it was geared to a certain race...well that says something.

Yes, it does. It says that intelligent, college-educated people reading a thread entitled "Will Dr. King's Dream ever come true?" and started the day before Martin Luther King Jr.'s birthday is observed as a national holiday, and who see a post that compares "successful" Chinese, Korean and Indian immigrant "groups" to an "unsuccessful" group described (stereotypically) as having a "dream" of "thug culture and music, sperm-donating absent daddies, and a welfare check," can pretty well figure out which "group" the writer of the post thinks is "unsuccessful."

Yeah, exactly - and stereotypes are rooted in thinking in anecdotes or typographical representations of a group . . .

i've never heard of a patel. what's that?

Patel is an Indian title meaning "village head" and is one of the most commonly-used Indian surnames.

Per Wikipedia: Patels are associated with Businesses, and in the US they are also associated with the lodging industry, many stores, and owning numerous hotel and motel businesses. (The Asian American Hotel Owner's Association (AAHOA), some ninety percent of whose nearly 9,000 members are Patels, estimates that they collectively own 18,000 hospitality properties worth some $38 billion in all.) There are also massive numbers who also are employed as doctors, engineers, and pharmacists.

As a surname, Patel is perhaps the most popular and easily identified Indian last name, other than Singh. Unlike many European last names, two random Patels (or two random Singhs) are highly unlikely to actually have any familial relationship.

I quoted the Wikipedia article portion about the hotel and motel business since hoosier's post referred to "Patel-owned motels."

so they're indians? patel is a slang term for them?

Yes, they're Indians.

I've never heard "Patel" used as slang so much as sort of a generalized reference -- as one of the most common Indian surnames, especially in North America, the reference to "Patel" implies a reference to Indian immigrants in general.

FWIW, I have heard the slang term "Potel." It comes from "Patel" and "hotel/motel" and means a hotel/motel owned by someone from South Asia, especially India.

My favorite Patels are Raju and Sharad.

They produced this bad-ass movie (Bachelor Party) and gave Tom Hanks his start:

http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/40/95/60m.jpg

-Rudey

The above ref to Wiki pretty much tells the story.

"Potel" could be a contender for Next Word Added to Websters Dictionary.

If you are arguing that every minority group, especially the immigrant Chinese, Patels, Koreans, etc., can make it in the USA, EXCEPT African-Americans, you have a pretty low opinion of a large minority.

If you are arguing that A-A people can only make it with govt. help, you have a pretty low opinion of a large minority.

I think everyone can make it in the USA.