Even Stupider Suspension
 

Spanish at school translates to suspension
Controversy caused by Kansas City incident reflects national debate

Updated: 6:36 a.m. ET Dec. 9, 2005
KANSAS CITY, Kan. - Most of the time, 16-year-old Zach Rubio converses in clear, unaccented American teen-speak, a form of English in which the three most common words are "like," "whatever" and "totally." But Zach is also fluent in his dad's native language, Spanish -- and that's what got him suspended from school.

Story

While I don't believe in teaching classes in Spanish (unless it's Spanish class, duh) this is ridiculous. What if some of the kids who take French were speaking it outside the classroom?

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In the county I live in (Union, NC) they talked about starting in kindergarten w/teaching 1/2 day in English and 1/2 day in Spanish and kids would be required to participate in both. I don't see anything wrong with that, as it helps the English speakers as much as the Spanish speakers...being that it's becoming clear that in about 40 years you will NEED to be able to speak Spanish.

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I completely agree. If it was outside of class, so what???

The only reason that would be true is because people with this point of view will make it true.

Making our kids learn spanish in school so they can communicate with spanish speakers that don't speak english. Just something else that pisses me off.

Change is inevitable. It does piss me off that we cater more to immigrant groups than we used to. The melting pot turning into the salad bowl and all that.

Here's my interpretation of what I'm reading, based on what I learned working with adolescents and reading between the lines because the school is not allowed to share stuff about the students because of privacy rules.

1. This is an "Alternative High School". The only alternative high schools I have ever heard of in Michigan were always for the kids who were suspended/expelled or dropped out of regular school. The kids there generally aren't angels.

2. Often, kids on the psych units where I've worked would make threats to others or swear in other languages so that staff wouldn't know what they were saying. They were quite surprised that I knew all the cuss words in Spanish.

3. I think that given the above information, they had similar things happening at this school and therefore said "No speaking foreign languages", so that the teachers could know and understand what was being said.

4. I also think that the school's limited ability to share more information with the media makes them look like idiots because they can't defend themselves, but it's the way it is. Hospitals often face the same dilemma with public relations.

So, I think there's more to this than one kid speaking Spanish one time and getting suspended for it.

While I don't agree with the suspension, I also don't agree with your county starting this new policy. If it is that much of an issue, they should set up an optional time for students to learn a new language.

However, this is a time when kids should be learning to speak English, i.e. learning the proper nouns, verbs, sentence formation, etc. It takes long enough to learn that, without muddying the picture by forcing these children to learn another language.

Once again, having an optional program is fine, but I don't think it should be instituted as a part of the school day in that way.

I honestly don't think that having the kids in J & S Kindergarten having 1/2 & 1/2 classes is a bad idea... after all I took the same thing (except English & French).

It's just meant to give some sort of grounding in the bare basics - ie. what is an "apple"... not to teach grammar; that's usually for later grades.

phrased diplomaticly:
 

If you live in the continuious U.S., and do not speak Spainish, and are making no effort to learn it, you are not preparing very well for the future.

Although, its not like they killed him for it and then got off b/c of the "he's an immagrant and not white, so who cares?" rule, that is in effect for Henrico County, VA.

If we reject Spanish in schools and public areas, it won't be a problem in the future and people can stop referring to it as inevitable.

-Rudey

You might be able to outlaw Spanish in schools, but not in public areas.

I'm inclined to agree with AGDee on this, for several reasons:

1) Rules are rules. If "no speaking a foreign language" is a rule, then he should not have been doing so.

2) Alternative Schools means the same thing here - I doubt that this is the first time this kid has been in trouble.

3) Saying that you're going to fiscally handicap yourself in 20 years by not learning Spanish is just an out. They've said that about Russian, they've said that about Japanese. That famous "they" seem to have been wrong both times. The official language of the United States is English!

I am all for learning other languages - I have taken four other languages, am semi-fluent in two, and have picked up enough of three other languages to at least communicate. Actually, I would like to see everyone know at least two languages, from kindergarten on up. But! There is a time and place for everything, and if this school says no to other languages outside of class, then so be it.

The United States HAS no official language. LOOK IT UP!

Having grown up in a private school (k-12) and knowing how they compete, here, schools that teach languages starting in kindergarten are among the best in the state. All of the top private schools make sure to point out that they begin teaching foreign languages in kindergarten. Children who learn other languages while learning English tend to be better at English and learn another language better than people who do not begin learning another language until middle or high school. I think it is advantageous to the child to begin learning Spanish (or any other language, for that matter) in kindergarten.

I think the article is on point that there is a significant amount of hostility in this country towards immigrants and Spanish speaking people, immigrant or not.

And of course, the lawyer in me is mad at the school for not having the policy in writing. I think the safety (teachers need to know what is being said) could be a strong enough public policy argument for the rule but you have to ACTUALLY make it a rule, put it in writing, put people on notice and then you are in a better position to enforce it.

Actually, the US does not have an official language.

We have an official language now?! Oh great sweetness!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languag..._United_States

http://www.answers.com/topic/languag...-united-states

Dang, and I got my hopes up for nothing!

English is the de facto official language of the US. The majority of states in the US have it as their official language as well I thought too.

And yes, you may have trouble removing it in public areas, but you can inject English for sure into those areas (ie making sure the stores in a city all have English signs).

It's a foolish argument to say "Learn Spanish" because in 50 years everyone will know it. It's circular and I don't realize how people don't see that. Plus the Chinese will win by a land slide in terms of unabated population growth and world influence over any Spanish speaking region, so maybe you should all learn Chinese instead.

-Rudey

Mea Culpa!!! Hundreds of thousands of immigrants learned... German? :rolleyes:

1) It isn't a rule at the school. From the cnn article:
http://g.msn.com/0MN2ET7/2?http://ww...EmailThis&CE=1
"The school district has officially rescinded his punishment and said that speaking a foreign language is not grounds for suspension. "

2) While an alternative school may have some "problem children", that doesn't mean they are automatically trouble making rule breakers.

3) I understand your point here, and don't completely disagree. However, the Japanese and Russian population were not increasing at the rate of the Hispanic population I don't think, so it may be a little easier to believe here. (ETA: No, I don't have a source for that one...just seems I've read about that Hispanic population surge recently)

And, as people have already pointed out, the US does not have an official language.

This situation is not about accomodating a Spanish speaking kid. I said 'no problema' to kids a bunch of times I'm sure and no one ever thought twice. I used to speak French in the hallways with my friends who were in my class. It's because this kid IS Hispanic that the principal had the problem with it. As my Hispanic husband said to me, it's part of a backlash against Hispanic immigrants (even though the kid is as American as you and me). Every other country in the world educates and encourages the population to speak other languages; they don't legislate against it.

No, you are right!
BUT, this kid speaks fluent English AND Spanish. So him choosing to speak to a friend in Spanish ins't hindering his ability to funtion in our society. It will actually be a a good thing on his resume in a few years!! :)

AGDee points sound more logical than what the student was quoted in the paper as saying. Perhaps one of the staff members was bilingual in Spanish and knows what was actually said or this situation would have gone unnoticed.

The debate going on at Chicago public schools regarding 1/2 English and 1/2 Spanish classes is that eventually these students will eventually have to switch over to English only classroom. I think the cut off is 8th grade. I'd be curious to see if there are any ESL teachers on board and what they're opinion is.

If foreign languages are to be offered, let there be a variety to choose and have it as a elective at the grade school level.

As well non-English speaking parents need to be made aware by their school districts of the opportunities available in their community to learn English.

I could go along with Wrigley - there have been MANY times when Latinos have talked about me or my friends, not realizing that I speak Spanish (trust me, I look as Anglo as they come!). When I reply in Spanish, they usually freak out - especially when they use non-PC idiom!

Which is why, if a teacher heard him say something derogatory in Spanish and understood it, there had to be a reason for it.

I have always felt that children should be taught a second language from kindergarten through ninth grade, with conversational classes optional afterwards. Two of the people I know who are homeschooling in California MUST teach a second language for at least 4 elementary years. This could be a county to county thing, as I haven't heard it mentioned in other states.

And yes, there should be a variety of languages available, not just the romance languages and German. I'd be very much behind teaching Russian early, as they have the whole Cyrillic alphabet thing to conquer as well as the language.

Are there any ESL teachers here? I think Carnation is one, but I have to believe that she's pretty busy, with the wedding tomorrow and all.

Sure, why not!

As Rudey stated, English is the de facto official language. It's not the declared official language.

That is pure poppycock.

-Rudey

According to The Kansas City Media, while an Alternative School, and this was not used on Local Media, it is a part of the Turner School District, one of 3 in Kansas City, Ks.

Alternative School can mean many things, for special ed. problem shildren. or gifted children. This is becoming the norm in many school districts today.

Agree, "The American" Language is the post facto language of The USA, Not English as compared to proper "British Language".

If someone comes to this country, isnt it expected that they learn the language as if We went to another Country and expect them to converse in Our Language?

There seem to be so many illegals in the USA, that Police Departments have to have a Spanish translator to interigate a person.

If you want to live here, Please learn some of the language or go back to whence you came from.

Whether the suspension was correct or not, He was told not to use spanish. The Superintendent did lift the suspension and it was left at that.

As My Parents told Me, if You live under our roof, You follow our rules. Never changed in My life time when they were alive.

OK, you are right, it's a strech to say "every"! But a whole lot do.

And it's hard to fight ya, Rudey, when you use a fabulous word like popycock!!!! :p


And I seriously doubt these kids were saying anything bad or derogatory. Kids have balls enough these days to say what they want in a language all the teachers can understand!!

The article says he was told before not to speak Spanish at school - and while he was disobeying a request, he wasn't disobeying any rule. I think the principal has a problem with this particular kid probably and so she used this as a way to discipline him.

Again, folks, this kid was BORN in the US of A!!! He is AMERICAN. He just happens to speak 2 languages - FLUENTLY. He chose to use one the principal did not approve of. He can't go back anywhere - he is from KANSAS!!!! Just like Dorothy Gale!!!

Hah, but the thing is that certain countries are extremely protective of their language (ie. France) and the ones that really push to learn another language are developing countries, colonial remnants, countries with stagnated economies, etc.

-Rudey