Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

Why Conservatives Are Smarter

Writing in the Jerusalem Post, Jonathan Rosenblum of Jewish Media Resources ponders the careers of Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice-designate Sam Alito, and in the process makes an excellent point about Ivy League conservatives and liberals:

Because of their minority status it is far more difficult for conservative students to entertain the illusion that all smart people think like them. They are exposed to many obviously bright young men and women whose opinions on almost every issue vary radically from their own._._._.

Being forced to recognize that there are different points of view helps make bright young conservatives such good debaters. They learn early on the limited persuasiveness of shouting at someone with whom they disagree, "You're an idiot." Of necessity they have to develop the ability to cast their arguments in ways that appeal to those starting from very different premises._._._.

Liberals can be wonderful people, and boon companions, but they often have a hard time dealing with people of opposing views--especially when they cannot dismiss them out of hand as idiots. Too often they have spent their entire adult lives surrounded almost entirely by those who think just like them, and it comes naturally to dismiss those of other views as intellectually or morally challenged.

This is true beyond the Ivy League. With liberalism the dominant ideology in the news and entertainment media, it is virtually inescapable to any American who doesn't go to great lengths to insulate himself from it. Big-city liberals, by contrast, can easily filter out conservative ideas, and thus need contend only with their own prejudices. Thus conservatives are smarter than liberals--not necessarily in terms of native intelligence, but of understanding the world around them.

(Hope the headline doesn't distract too much - some good info here)

Okay, I'll bite...

First critique is that this has nothing to do with intelligence which this concedes...NOR does it have anything to do with "understanding the world around you". This does have potential implications in skills and presentation of oneself, but to use the terms smarter or intelligence is an extreme misnomer designed to draw attention and controversy.

2nd...this definitely does not extend to all conservatives, all Ivy League conservatives or even all college educated conservatives. By this token, I'm a "smarter" liberal b/c I've lived in staunchly red states my entire life, and while yes, attending college did mean I found more people who think like me, I have met just as many who don't.

These types of articles do nothing to advance conversation, just to spread more distrust.

They are written for the self-edification of their intended audience. Nothing more.

If hoosier wants to compare his own intelligence to that of Roberts, Alito or Scalia... fine.

No hoosier, I'm not saying you're dumb -- just that this seems to be what the article is asking of its intended audience.

I think it's true.

-Rudey

Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

Okay, let's take this bit by bit:

1) What "minority status" do conservatives have, exactly? In case you missed the memo, the climate in this country (the U.S.) is becoming increasingly conservative in recent years. I know that in very few settings have I, as a liberal individual, ever been the majority - and yes, that does include on my college campus. (Where are the liberal colleges that everyone keeps talking about, and why didn't I go to one? Some of these people here are insane ...)

2) Both conservatives and liberals resort to yelling "You're an idiot!" - it has more to do with analytical and debating skills than political persuasion. I can think of a certain conservative on this board who, when apparently unable to logically answer my questions, called me a rabid dog instead.

3) Dealing with those of opposing views can be difficult for everyone, regardless of whether your own views are conservative or liberal. To me, it seems evident that conservatives have a harder time than liberals with this, simply by looking at the typical conservative and liberal positions on several "hot-button issues" of the moment, such as gay marriage. The conservatives, by definition, seem to have difficulty allowing others to make their own choices.

4) Who dismisses who as "morally challenged", exactly? I certainly hear this more from the conservative toward the liberals.

5) Both people in cities and people in rural areas could stand for quite a bit of educating regarding the way one another think and live. As for representations in the media, conservatives themselves have told me that they love Fox News for it's "non-liberal viewpoint".

Where do you find stuff like this? It's ridiculous ...

Re: Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

The most damning part of my original post is:

"They (conservatives) learn early on the limited persuasiveness of shouting at someone with whom they disagree, "You're an idiot."

You have given us four examples to such shouting in your four paragraphs:

1 - Some of these people here are insane
2 - Where do you find stuff like this?
3 - It's ridiculous ...
4 - The conservatives, by definition, seem to have difficulty

Let's debate - not shout "You're an idiot."

Re: Re: Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

Robert Novak.

As a bonus, on MSNBC you have Tucker Carlson and Joe Scarborough, not exactly flaming liberals.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

Believe Novak is gone.

Saw Joe as Grand Marshall in Pensacola Sun. He's a former GOP congressman.

Even with these examples, the Red State type people are not getting near equal time in the MSM.

Alan Colmes is not a Liberal.

His book also sucks the bucket.

(Not that I trust Wikipedia, but many GCers do)

Alan Colmes
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


Alan Colmes (born September 24, 1950 in New York City, New York), is the liberal half of Fox News Channel's popular political debate program Hannity and Colmes, along with the staunch conservative Sean Hannity. He was a well-known radio talk show personality in the New York City area before being asked to co-host the show at Hannity's request. Colmes is married to the sister of radio host Monica Crowley.

Alan Colmes also hosts his own nationally syndicated radio show, The Alan Colmes Show, formerly FOX News Live with Alan Colmes. He has also written a book, Red, White & Liberal: How Left is Right and Right is Wrong (ISBN 0060562978) which was published in October 2003.

Alan Colmes is nothing more than a shell...He never calls Hannity out on anything and a lot times takes an extremely centrist view. He's only liberal b/c he's sitting next to Hannity.

What views does he hold on popular topics?

Both of the Clintons and Lieberman take Centrist views on the left. Are they not liberal either?

-Rudey

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

Not according to the CNN website.

Oh come on... that was much more polite a euphamism than I would expect from you...

Sometimes I excede expectations.

Actually, most of the time.

Come to think of it... All except that one time.

Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

Yeah, I'm going to need some stastical proof on your broad sweeping generalization here.

Also, I call BS. You cant rail against wikipedia in other posts (several, in fact) then go on to cite it as a source when it suits your needs and you cant qualify your opinions otherwise.

You either withdraw your above claim cited in Wiki, or the one from the other thread where you thought nazis were liberals. (where you refused to admit you were wrong.)

did you really think I'd let that slip? Come on old man, you got better game than that.

Re: Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

lifesaver I think you missed the point... he called Bob Jones a college :rolleyes: or even worse implied that it as a fine example of a "conservative" college...

Coop, isnt BOB JONES a college? Or so professes to be?

Does a Liberal get up on the Right of The Bed and A Conservitive get up on the left side of the Bed? If this is true so far, where does a Moderate get in Bed?:)

Re: Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

Believe I added a qualifier regarding Wiki - only a source, not to be trusted unless you know the info to be true.

Nazis = National Socialists = lefties, like all socialists.

--------------------
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Content/read.asp?ID=55

A Report of the Center for the Study of Popular Culture

Political Bias in the Administrations and Faculties
of 32 Elite Colleges and Universities

Executive Summary (David Horowitz and Eli Lehrer)

This report on political bias at 32 elite colleges and universities is the third in a series conducted by the Center for the Study of Popular Culture and researched by Andrew Jones.[1]

Summary of Results

In our examinations of over 150 departments and upper-level administrations at 32 elite colleges and universities, the Center found the following:

The overall ratio of Democrats to Republicans we were able to identify at the 32 schools was more than 10 to 1 (1397 Democrats, 134 Republicans).
----------------------------------------

PS: Posting names is a violation of TOS, according to John.

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Which conservative values does Bush represent?

1 - He has tried to get some measurable results from federal education spending, via testing and "no child left behind"

2 - He has strengthened national defense, and taken action against the Islamic Terrorists who attacked us

3 - He's tried to give welfare recipients a chance to get housing and ownership opportunities

4 - appointed an aggressive diplomat to help get UN reform, appointed an excellent conservative SC judge, and nominated another good SC guy.

Unfortunately, he's also signed the McCain-Feingold campaign finance act which limited free speech and opened up the doors to financial tsunamis, signed the highway bill funding Alaskas bridge to nowhere, appointed a horseshow guy to head FEMA, and spent like a democrat.

Re: Re: Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

Actually, the Nazis were at the far right of Germany's political spectrum.

Though, most political scientists now, don't use the linear model, they prefer a circle. If you go to far to the left or right, you are basically at the same place. For instance, the Chinese Totalitarian "Communist" Regime is basically equivalent to the Totalitarian Nazi Regime.

1) How does testing and "every child gets left behind" help schools?

2) He ignored memos from the Clinto administration about possible terrorist activity, which led to 9/11, then attacked a country under the guise of WMDs, while disregarding the UN watchdogs information that there were none. Guess what, there weren't!

3) Why not help welfare recipients get jobs, not put them further in debt?

4) Though, I think that the Supreme Court should be an impartial body. I don't like the idea of the Republicans controlling all three branches of government, including the House and Senate.

Also, WTF? "spent like a democrat?" His spending is out of control, but democrats typically raise money for their spending, not cut taxes. Wasn't the highest budget surplus under a Democrat? I do believe it was. However, the two highest deficits were under both Bushes.

So as a "conservative", he's expanded the federal government's size and influence more than anyone in recent history?

Again, how does Bush support conservative values?

Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

Agreed- the Nazis were fascists, NOT socialists. Either way, kstar is right in that if you go far enough left of right, you're going to end up in the same place.

1 - tried and failed... mostly because he just used a good PR-sounding name for an act that effectively did nothing

2 - last I heard, we haven't caught Osama yet... you know, the one who actually claimed responsibility for the attacks

3 - even if this was true... since when has welfare been a priority for republicans?

4 - the guy he appointed to the UN has had nothing but disrespectful comments to make about the organization, and people around the world thought the appointment made a mockery of the position

going along with ktsnake... just how does the expansion of the government under Bush go along with conservative values? aren't they supposed to be the ones for decentralization? but I could be wrong I guess... I'm only a poli sci major.

As I've posted before, the Republicans control the House and Senate.

However, conservatives do not control either, and there is a difference.

Hopefully, in '06 and '08, more conservatives (Dem or GOP) will be elected, and more 'moderates' and libs will lose.

PS: I think that if 'no child left behind' included a paragraph saying 'every teacher gets a $5,000 raise', all the teachers and all the teachers' unions would be saying 'great legislation, we should have done this years ago. All those tests are really helping the children.'

Similarly, if Wal-Mart announced tomorrow that employee unions are welcome, 95% of the anti-Wal-Mart activity would cease.

And if you believe that I got some nice mountain lake property to sell you in Saskatchewan :p

If you don't believe it is true, why are the two natl. anti-WM groups funded by the retail clerks unions? (per USA Today article this week) It's not a secret.

Anything in north GA/NC mountains?

1) Failed? That explains the measured and recorded improvements (http://www.ed.gov/nclb/overview/impo...lbworking.html). That explains why so many Dems were on board, and so many were upset that they wanted to present an idea like this first.

2) Yeah Clinton should have killed him. Clinton should have pursued him. Clinton, didn't. Now we have a problem. And now even if Osama died, that means nothing. Al Quaeda is considered a consulting group that provides financing and education to local terror cells and takes credit on a parallel level.

3) Getting people off welfare is.

4) Actually now that the politics game has subsided by Democrats on this, Bolton is getting praised quite a bit for his ability to get things done in the UN and his pursuit of serious reforms.

-Rudey

His pro-business actions and tax cutting activities are very conservative.

His expansion of spending and the deficit is not and can only be explained by the incorporation of the liberal Christians into the Republican party from the Democratic Party (many also believe that these same Christians are reconsidering a switch back).

-Rudey

1) How about you make a point?

2) "During Clinton's tenure, Al-Qaeda began to emerge as a major terrorist threat. In 1998, the group bombed the American embassies in Tanzania and Kenya. At the end of his term, in late 2000, the terrorists struck again with the USS Cole bombing. By this time, Clinton has stated he regarded Al-Qaeda as the foremost threat to national security. [12] In the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks, the independent investigating commission was critical of Clinton for focusing more on diplomatic than military means to eliminate the bin Laden threat."

That surplus was the results of Republicans pushing Clinton back, weakening him, which led to a surplus.

-Rudey

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

"Nazism was the ideology held by the National Socialist German Workers Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, commonly called NSDAP or the Nazi Party), which was led by its "Führer", Adolf Hitler. The word Nazism is most often used in connection with the dictatorship of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945 (the "Third Reich"), and it is derived from the term National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus, often abbreviated NS). "

If one were to draw a ven diagram, the intersection between socialism and fascism is rather large. State control of businesses is really not a conservative value, neither is the large expansion of government and its powers. It's not quite liberal and not quite conservative. Plus the definitions of liberal and conservative vary.

-Rudey

That I'll agree with you on. But tax cuts need to accompany cuts in spending. Otherwise, the tax cuts are just irresponsible.

Quote:

His expansion of spending and the deficit is not and can only be explained by the incorporation of the liberal Christians into the Republican party from the Democratic Party (many also believe that these same Christians are reconsidering a switch back). -Rudey

I have a hard time categorizing the fundamentalists as liberal or conservative. I think they are sort of in a class of their own. The Dems can have them back though. Neither party will give them what they want. Sure, the Republicans talk a good game about being against abortion and other such things, but we'd rather have the issue than the solution.

-- And I'm not sure I buy that NCLB, the TSA, or the Patriot Act were creations of the fundamentalists Christians if that's what you're trying to allege.

They are liberal like Carter. Not exactly happy about the war and want bigger government spending in most areas (schools, foreign aid, even the environment, etc.). Both parties will give them what they want. Everyone wants votes. I wish they were Democrats again too. It would make me stop smacking my head every time I read about a new act in the paper.

And no NCLB was actually pretty cross-platform and bipartisan with Christian support as well. The TSA is the security people at the airport? If that's who you're referring to, I don't think you'll find Howard Dean or anyone not conservative (nor Christian) saying they want less security at the airport. I am waiting for them to open up the fast line or adopt something like Indonesia (I think it's Indonesia) where they just scan your eye. The Patriot Act was pretty cross platform too, although with time limits.

Until the congressional elections are going to be over, the American people will suffer. Politicians will jump around on issues and attack each other over anything to get higher numbers.

-Rudey

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

Sure, the lib professors and the revisionists are embarrassed that the most reviled people of the 20th century - the Nazis - are truly socialists and lefties, so they want to change history and change facts.

If your profs are teaching this, I hope you will think critically about it.

I don't see how becoming more conservative would make you a lib, or becoming more lefty and radical would make you conservative.

The commies are leftists too.

I think we substantially agree on everything but the TSA -- there, the President/Congress nationalized an entire industry. They replaced it with a federal agency that hasn't shown to be any better at all. To say that as an administration, the Bush admin doesn't think that independent contractors (what airline security used to be) can't do a good job defies logic. We've never in the history of the nation used more independent contractors for national security purposes than right now.. I agree as to more airline security, not less, but does the government really have to foot the bill? Why can the airports not supply this competently?

(something for another thread I guess)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Conservatives Are Smarter
 

Hoosier, your argument just does not stack up. Let me try and repeat what I'm understanding you to say:

Left-wing Americans and Nazis are similar to Communists.

If that is what you're saying, please offer some evidence to support it. Which positions do they all agree on where you can say that they are not only similar, but the same.

Redistribution of the wealth does not equate to 'From each according to their ability to each according to their need'. They're different things.

Read your own signature, that's some good advice.