National "Personality"
 

Just looking for some opinions/ideas on this - my impression is that for NPC/IFC orgs, there is a lot of variety from chapter to chapter regarding the "personality" of the sorority/fraternity, and for NPHC orgs, this doesn't really seem to be as much the case. The NPHC orgs I guess just seem to be more standard in that regard - if you ask someone what the culture, etc., is like for an NPHC group, they usually are able to answer you, while for the NPC/IFC groups, people always say it depends from school to school.

I was wondering what you all think accounts for this - the way that recruitment works, the number of orgs, history, marketing? Something else entirely? Is one way better, or are they equally valid? Personally, I am a little confused about what seems to be a lack of real national identity for the NPC/IFC orgs, but perhaps this is just because not being in one of those orgs there is a lot that I don't see. Are they all essentially the same at the national level? What are the differences?

I think it's the number of orgs.

But I know lots of people who would disagree heartily with you on your general statement about NPHC groups.

While all Major GLOs Organizations hold to Certain Tenents that each ones Chapters are to be held to, I just wonder if reagional areas have any input. Or maybe if they ae Older Chapters who try to Hold to the Old outdated ways of opporating before say Hazing was outlawed?

Maybe this is why so many Chapters are being suspended by Schools and Their Nationals:confused:

True, each Chapter has its own personality and who can really say other than areas are different along with the members.

Re: National "Personality"
 

From reading GC, one difference that I have noticed between NPC and NPHC sororities is that for NPC it seems that different chapters of the same org may use different colors / symbols / mascots depending on the school. For NPHC this is a big NO-NO.

Since I am not NPC, from the outside looking in, it seems that NPCs are obsessed with quota / totals - its all about numbers for every recruitment / COB event. For NPHC, the numbers can be impressive for some chapters (i.e, on some campuses AKA chapters can have 100 PNM, or 'on line' using the old term), but, there is no mandate set by the National org (as far as I am aware of for the other three NPHC sororities so correct me if I am wrong DST, AKA, ZPB members) to have cetain numbers each recruitment event with respect to the other NPHC sororities. That is why you never hear us worried about campus quota and total - those concepts do not exist for NPHC recruitment.

I also get the feeling that the whole selection process between NPC and NPHC is different. For NPC rush week, especially at an SEC school, it seems like a blurr - 100's of girls have to be 'screened' in a week before a bid is made. For NPHC it is encouraged that the PNM really do her homework - get to know the chapter members, support or be present at chapter events, be seen doing positive things around campus. This may take a whole semester of being seen and interacting with the chapter of interest, then when recruitment comes around, the chapter and the interested young lady have a history because each has spent a considerable amount of time together.

"Personally, I am a little confused about what seems to be a lack of real national identity for the NPC/IFC orgs, but perhaps this is just because not being in one of those orgs there is a lot that I don't see."

I'm not sure that this is a fair statement.
I'm not a member of an NPC/IFC organization, so I, like you, am an outsider. However, I've known (fairly well) enough chapters of the same sororities and fraternities on different campuses through either family members or close friends to see that while every chapter isn't alike, (i.e. ABC isn't the "smart" chapter on every campus), all the orgs that I've seen seem to have a strong national identity.

My family is spread out around the country. We don't all have the same personality, intelligence or looks but we all share a history and things that identify us as a family.

Comparing NPC, IFC, and NPHC is like comparing apples to oranges and grapes. Can't be done.

True. I didn't want to say that, but I tried to answer her question anyway.

Re: Re: National "Personality"
 

Actually, this rarely happens - it's the exception not the norm.

For instance, Chi Os colors are cardinal and straw. No chapter uses any other colors than those. And if they did, and our national found out, they would be set straight. However, we do allow members to have shirts, bags, etc. in colors other than our cardinal and straw.

Mascots/symbols - I've heard here and there of chapters who hold something special to themselves - like one of our chapter is into chili peppers so they use them in decorations or patters for letter shirts, but nowhere do they claim that it is a symbol of Chi Omega. It probably came from an event "way back when" where a funny or touching thing happened and the peppers remind them of that. But again, for all of our 170 chapters, I've only heard of this once or twice.

I like MTSUGURL's family analogy. I think it's great that we have a diverse group of women in my sisterhood. We may not be exactly alike, but our ritual binds us into "sameness" - even if we are the only ones who see it! :)

Re: Re: National "Personality"
 

I imagine that she meant the sororities which also have a local mascot. I never heard of that prior to Greek Chat, but I guess they do!

Do any NPC sororities (or really, any sororities or fraternities represented on here) have families within your chapters? For instance, for some chapters of OPhiA, we have the chapter broken down into smaller family groups based on big sister-little sister lineage, to create some closer bonds within the larger group, and each of these families has their own traditions in addition to the overall sorority traditions (colors, mascot, etc.). Just wondering how common, if at all, this is ...

This happens from time to time in APhiA, but I wouldn't consider it to be common.

Happens more frequently in APO.

Re: Re: Re: National "Personality"
 

That is exactly what she's talking about. If a Delta Sigma Theta would get a tote bag with her letters on it in pink and blue, NOT GOOD would be an understatement.

Some NPC groups have different national and local mascots, some don't. Not every NPC group has an **official** national mascot, so technically any mascot you'd see a chapter use would be local. They all have national things that have special meaning to every group, but sometimes they are things that are darned hard to make cute and cuddly mascots out of. :)

And to answer Ren's question, nearly ALL NPC/NIC sororities and fraternities have "families" within their chapters. How into it the families get with colors, names, mascots etc really depends on the school. We had a family sweatshirt that the big gave the little at initiation, but other than that, it wasn't a huge deal. (We also had a family shirt in my APO family.)

I think it has to do with the collective memory of each individual chapter. Speaking for NIC groups, it seems that the 'culture' of individual chapters is most predictable by looking at when the chapter was founded. Chapters founded before the 50's seem to have a vastly different character than chapters formed in the 80's, and chapters founded recently are nothing like the other two.

The reason for this I think is that a chapter gets its personality through traditions. Traditions are upheld by active alum involvement and of course, they're passed down through actives.

When a chapter is founded, new traditions are created (having founded a chapter, I helped establish a few of these myself). These traditions are passed down through the membership as something that they just 'assume' must be done -- and let me tell you, it's amazing to see traditions that you thought up as something 'fun' to do at a given moment still being practiced several years after you graduate -- I fully expect them to be doing so 20 years from now.

Because of this, I think that throughout NIC groups at least, you'll find more similarities between chapters founded around the same times belonging to different organizations than you'll find similarities between different chapters of the same organization.

I can't speak for NPHC, but it seems that they have a more collective culture. By that, I mean that there is more socialization between members of their different chapters, and therefore, more traditions in common, and therefore more uniformality between chapters. That's my theory anyhow.

I really had a hard time following some of the thinking on this post for a bit.

But, All or each Organization has Their Colors, Badges, Coat of Arms and anything else related to each Seperate Organization. These are Outward Symbols to show who We are.

Some have National Mascots as Symbols and some dont, We do not.

But if each Chapter wants a Local Mascot, there is nothing wrong with that.

What seems to be a problem is the interactions between Groups when We should all be standing shoulder to shoulder together!

Each Chapter as was said depending on time of inception may vary, maybe they shouldnt from HQs and Organizations Ideals.

Yes, We all have Chapter Problems as is seen on GC. There is no one Group that is a major problem, it is spread around isnt it?

Post of the Century! :D

It's very very common for sororities here to get letter bags, shirts, or anything that is wearable in colors other than the official colors. For instance, our jerseys (t-shirts with block letters that we wear during inter-sorority competitions) are teal with black deltas.

Your jerseys aren't official colors? I can understand bags and stuff like that, but why would you deliberately select any other colors for your jerseys?

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I'm just trying to understand ... I mean, for us it's a big deal if the colors used for the letters themselves versus the accent are reversed. You can do whatever you want for your tote bag or whatever, but your jersey is standard, and it's definitely official colors ...

Just to be clear, jersey is meaning t-shirt with sewn on letters, right?

Why not have them in multiple colors? I had all kinds of different colors and patterns. Tshirts, sweatshirts, etc. What's wrong with a little variety?

Yep, that's what I meant by jerseys. I'm really not sure the reason behind using colors other than our official colors for our jerseys. But I do know that it makes a pretty nice statement when 50+ girls show up wearing the same, bright t-shirt, with big bold black letters.

Some of the chapters on campus have chosen to use their traditional colors on their jerseys, but many picked other combinations. We chose to go outside the normal blue, gold, and silver.

http://photos-870.facebook.com/n4/70...60870_9360.jpg

Typically a tee with sewn-on letters, yeah - although I know some chapters have their shirts in a jersey material, instead of just a regular tee. But the difference between your jersey and just another shirt you may have with sewn-on letters is that the jersey is the official, standard one. I just really don't get why this wouldn't be in official colors.

OPhiARen3, i'm not trying to pick, but it seems that you have a hard time understanding/appreciating that not every group does things the same way yours does. The way your org does things isn't necessarily the "right" way or the only way of doing things.

Personally, I read your posts as being somewhat negative and condescending towards NPC groups because they don't do things the way your group does. It is coming across as you're looking down your nose at NPC groups. I could be wrong as to this, but this is the way that it is just the way i'm reading it.

I wouldn't dream of questioning the way your group does things, especially in a negative way. Every group does things for a reason. Why they do it is their business, certainly not any of mine. Some put more emphasis on other aspects, some things just are the way they are. For instance, I can't say why we get paraphanelia in all different colors and patterns. Women like color and variety, but other than that, I don't know. There's not a reason behind everything, somethings just are the way they are.

Most of our groups have been around for 100+ years and collectively have millions of members, obviously we're doing things right.

Back to the jersey question- NPC groups don't have an "official, standard" set of letters. My chapter had what we called "house letters"- i.e. everyone had the same set of letters. They were sorta in our colors- a dark green, with silver letters sewn on a white background (our official colors are olive green -though many chapters use a more flattering and modern shade of green- and pearl white). But this was our decision, for similar purposes as UKTriDelt's- it looks nice and uniform.

Your favorite band sucks

OPhiARen3 - your chapter must be very different from the chapter I was initiated in (I was initiated into Mu chapter but disaffiliated before the reorganization.) Yes, OPA has official colors, but it was never handed down from on high (nationals) what colors we were to put on our jersey. I think I was the only one that had letter in our official colors. OPA is a fairly new organization, and is still building it's own national identity or personality. You know yourself the wide variety of chapters in OPA, and the diversity of the women that are members, and it isn't half as large as the smallest NPC. I agree that your posts come off as condescending, and as a former member of OPA, I believe that it is a great organization, but not on a higher plane than any other.

I can only talk about DST, I think what makes us and the other the NPHC orgs appear more standardized is the national infrastucture. We are governed by a national executive board some of which are elected at out national conventions or regional conferences, and others appointed by the elected national president. We also have a headquarters staff and a facility that occupies four adjoining addresses in DC.

We are very clear about protocol and traditions, and the difference between the two, i.e. what is official and what isn't. We have a national code of conduct that spell out what violates our constitutions, bylaws, and policies and procedures, and the penalties for chapters and individuals for doing so.

For example, our protocol states that our official colors are crimson and cream--red and white are the only acceptable substitutes, and black may be used as an anchoring color. Thus a chapter cannot decide to have blue shirts made with pink letters. That would be a violation that could lead to a disciplinary action.

And all of our rules apply to collegiate and alumnae chapters. Even the membership intake process is the same for both.

So we basically function with our Grand Chapter having ultimate decision making authority. And no local chapter can set policies or procedures that conflict with Grand Chapter's. This leads to greater standardization.

Hi OPhiA sister,

Some NPC groups and even some OPA chapters do their jerseys and shirts differently than they do than you chapter. They decide to vary on the shirts to try something different. For example, I have OPA shirts in white, different shades of blue, yellow, red and garnet (to reflect one of our school's colors). I don't have a OPA jersery, but if I wanted to do it in colors besides the blues and yellow, that's my choice. One of my friends had a shirt made for another sister with part of the Texas flag (she's from there). My OPA bag has Mickey Mouse on it. With DST and other NPHC groups, I'll have to co-sign with sigmadiva--that is a big no-no. My DST shirts come in three colors--red, white and black(and I have a lot of them).

I also understand where you're coming from with the familes. I was an Alpha Angel with OPA in college. You become in the family when you get your big sis and your little sis becomes a member as well. It is to bring unity and to build a closer relationship with some of your sisters.

I hope my explanation helps!:)

NPC groups have (inter)national headquarters and boards, and we also have rules about what we can and cannot do in our letters. It's just that our standards are a little different from NPHC groups. At our convention in 2004, we received tote black tote bags with red, green and yellow on them. "Yellow" isn't really one of our colours (buff is), and I guess by NPHC standards, we would have had violations, because the colours weren't right (especially with the black bags).

In DST you just would not have received tote bags in any colors than what I mentioned above.

I understand that NPC groups have HQs and boards, but with threads like this that keep surfacing and other posts I read about NPC and IFC I just wonder if we function with stricter standards, because of the way our governance infrastructure works. It's not a knock, just an attempt to address the initial post from a DST point of view.

For example, we publish the names of chapters and individuals who violated our policies on our national website. We have an elected national committee with a main function of making sure that our constitution, bylaws, and polices are upheld. We have a regional structure that further facilitates the upholding of the above.

Again, I am not saying one is any better than the other--just different, which may lead to different results.

We have strict rules, just not about what colors can be worn on our letter shirts. Just an example our crest is always print in a precise manner and there are rules on how it can be used.
I think it is great that NPHC groups wear their colors, its looks really nice. But it is also really awesome to show up at convication in matching bright shirts with a great pattern.
We also have a judical system, but it is not open.
Our traditions and rules are different, that doesn't make either group wrong, just different.
My Chapter also does family letters. it's a really cute tradition. We also have a local mascot, the ladybug. The ladybug isn't used offically but it is given as gifts between members and for big little.

I'm not trying to say that what you do is wrong, and I'm really sorry if I come off as condescending toward the NPC groups - I'm not trying to! I'm just not very familiar with NPC groups and the way that they operate, and am trying to understand that better. I definitely know that my org doesn't not have the best or the only right way of doing things - heck, I don't think half of us know what we're doing, we're just trying to find out ;p

I think the confusion for me was just over the word "jersey" - for me, I think that jersey maybe has different implications than maybe it does for others of you. So I think that may be where the confusion comes in. I mean, it's a shirt, yes, but it's your most important letter shirt, and while you can have others in other colors, you have that one that is the jersey, it is official, and it is typically your first set of letters. If that makes sense ...

Again, I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone!

HEFFA PLEASE! That's a little misleading, don't you think?

We have OPA shirts in a variety of colors and things (some of them very cute :) ), it's just the jerseys that there are standards for - every sister has the same. Before my time they had pledge class info on them, but I guess that got too expensive :( I luv my polka dot OPA bag - I'm really not anti-variety, I swear!

I didn't know that Chi had families too - Nu got the idea from Omicron (at Auburn). I used to be a Theta Frog - but our chapter grew, and I got bumped into the new family, so now I'm a Xi Tiger.

That's what I was trying to say - I think the confusion was over our different meanings attached to the word "jersey". We (I'm speaking for my chapter here, I don't know about all the other OPA chapters) wouldn't typically wear our jerseys for sports, we'd have other matching shirts for that.

my sorority does that. Every one initiated from 1989 on is one of 5 trees. Each tree has several branches, and those branches have things like " family letters", a pattern of letters typically given as a first set (my line has a hawaiian print, another has an ivy print, another one has sunflowers, another is ladybugs...) others have traditions (one has a tradition of giving gifts late!) and specific items that get handed down only through the tree and not to other members (specific cat gifts, specific frames/cups, etc).

Maybe because there is another sorority with the same colors that's been there longer than Tri-Delta has and they don't want to wear the same colors? There are like 4 NPC sororities with silver/blue/gold combos.

We never had these "official jersey" things - I think it must be a southern thing. When you needed to wear letters to Greek Week or whatever, you just wore some form of letters. Some of our girls HATED red - if we would have told them they had to buy a red sweatshirt they would have had a fit.

As far as para and stuff, I don't know that "stricter" is the word.

I think the whole thing is - there are fewer NPHC groups, so each will be more (for lack of a better word) proprietary about the things that are theirs. For example, it wouldn't do for me to get all upset about a DZ wearing a red and white shirt, because Chi Omega's colors are also red and white (well, cardinal and straw) and AOII's color is cardinal. Plus there are other groups that have red as one of their colors, and a buttload of other groups that have white as one of their colors. I don't have a special "claim" on red or white within my conference. Does that make sense?

Yes, this is what I meant. Thanks HC!!:)

Re: Re: Re: National "Personality"
 

See, this is what I was trying to say. Where there are NPHC orgs on a campus, the NPHC on the campus does not set a total or quota that each group 'should' meet.

I probably said NPC groups are 'obsessed' with quota / total because a small percentage of the recruitment / rush threads are 'Hey, lets post each chapter's quota and what total was on the campus.' I'm only getting this info from GC posts. I think it is great that each group is able to achieve that campus goal. I did not mean to imply that reaching for quota / total is negative.

Bottom line, I agree with MTSUGirl. Trying to compare NPHC to NPC to NIC/IFC is like comparing apples to oranges to grapes. Obviously there are things that work for each group for different reasons. And, I like and appreciate the differences.