Mergers...is is still possible?
 

In the NPC triva thread, there's a question about mergers...and the comment was made that DZ and ZTA thought about it, but neither would give up their symbols...

Would a merger between 2 NPCs even be possible today??? What would happen to the Alumnae? Would they have to be initiated into the other sorority?

Re: Mergers...is is still possible?
 

Would a merger between 2 NPCs even be possible today???

Almost anything is possible. It would depend on the purpose of the merger and how willing the parties are to achieve that purpose. For example, is it to pool resources but under a new name? AOII merges with ABC to become QRS.

What would happen to the Alumnae? Would they have to be initiated into the other sorority?

Usually, alumnae are given the option of initiating or not.

Re: Mergers...is is still possible?
 

Excellent Question! Not one to be taken lightly for sure!

The main reason GLOs would Merge is for Financial reasons.

Because of Risk Management which affects us all it is a possibliity.

I guess a lot would depend on which is the strongest. But there may be much more to it than just that.

They could become DZTA. Kind of like SAEPi. ;)

At my school, the first time we and ZTA did our annual joint-COB, everyone thought we were merging to become a new sorority because all our signs and flyers advertising the event said, "Delta Zeta Tau Alpha." I couldn't tell you how many people asked us about that!

seems unlikely
 

that Farm House would merge with KA Society. But, it would give
KA some diversity...
Phi Mu Delta and Phi Lambda Chi would be an interesting spread,
as would AKL and Deke.
hmmmm, Earp, what say?

Re: seems unlikely
 

Erik -

Where is Phi Lambda Chi primarily located at? I know Phi Mu Delta's around here (the Northeast that is).

I think a merger's much more likely to happen w/ fraternities than sororities.

I posted a whole thread involving orgs that later merged with other NIC and NPC orgs and what I found out was this:

Fraternity GLOs had a greater tendency to merge if they were founded or had a weak membership shortly before major national or world events occured (Civil War, Great Depression, both world wars).

The other thing I saw with great frequency was that a lot of times only certain individual chapters of the org would affiliate with one or more existing GLOs, as opposed to a formal pooling of resources by both orgs to make a new org. Now that I think about it, there really hasn't been as many real true mergers so much as there has been acquisitions of one org by another org. Offhand, I think that acquisitions have occured with more frequency than formal mergers.

If you want, I'll post the link to the thread and you can read it at your leisure. But it is rather lengthy, but a good read and good research for you to pursue if that is your desire.

Thanks, but this is just kind of an opinion/what would happen kind of thing. It's not anything I would ever reseach, because it's just a casual question. I'm not sure what I would do if ASA ever merged.

Fraternities in the future may merge out of necessity. I'm still waiting for one of our national organizations to be hit by a lawsuit that for all practical purposes puts them out of business. I think it's inevitable, and at that point, I'd expect to see the chapters of that organization absorbed by another national, or consortiom of nationals.

Please do. Thanks.

I tend to agree.

Phi Lamb
 

Phi Lambda Chi is primarilly in AR with a couple or so in OK,
used to be in KS & LA In NIC now, but barely operating

Kappa Sigma Kappa
 

See Baird's for the colorful story of the Kappa Sigs who existed in
the 19th century, folded, revived in 20th, went almost anywhere
including New Zealand, Tasmania...little bit of everything, then
was absorbed with Theta Xi, and those who did not "fit" were cut
loose. Don't know whether any are still operating.
There were a good many really small, regional fraternities in the
50s but most either folded or were quietly absorbed. Some were Junior Members of the NIC...not meeting all the requirements for
full membership... Male equivalents of Theta Upsilon, Beta Sigma Omicron, Iota Alpha Pi...just did not quite make it. Again, your
Baird's will have some more interesting reading.

While at our National HQ this past spring I noticed 3 versions of a re-designed Alpha Sigma Phi crest.

I asked the Alpha Sig staff member who was showing me a room full of memorabilia what they were for. He told me that 10-12 years ago we had looked at merging with another national fraternity.

Elements of both fraternities were represented in the newly designed crests. This national fraternity would be folded into ours and the name would remain Alpha Sigma Phi.

The merger did not happen for a lot of reasons which I am not privy to. In fact, I had never even heard about this possible merger until last spring! It was certainly news to me as they also had a chapter at my school.

I won't mention the name of the farternity that we almost merged with. They are an 100+ chapter old GLO that is well represented at many large and small schools nationwide. I've noticed there are several members on GC.



:)

Here is the link
 

The link is as follows:

A Question to the NPHC Greeks

Re: Mergers...is is still possible?
 

What I would wonder is, for what likely reasons could you (generic you, not you specifically) forsee that there would be a need for a merger? Even the smallest don't seem to so small as to need to join forces, if you will.

Re: Re: Mergers...is is still possible?
 

I can forsee a merger because of financial reasons. GLO's are not rich by any means.

KTSnake mentions a large scale lawsuit (hazing?). I too believe this disaster is coming.

Low membership across the board may also push a GLO to seek out an another organization with similar goals and history to merge with. At the very least, the struggling organization could simply be absorbed into the more stable one.

Currently there are 64 member fraternities in the NIC. Can that many continue to grow and remain relevent in the future? In my opinion, no.

Re: Re: Re: Mergers...is is still possible?
 

You, ktsnake, and Erik are correct.

Whilke I mentioned on another thread, 1939, TKN and LXA Merged. There were talks at one time between LXA and TKE but did not come about because of to many differences.

As Erik said, over the years, many small Groups merged with stronger ones.

The last majors that I can think of is Phi Sigma Epsilon and Phi Sigma Kappa.

Several Years ago, Our Exec VP and I were talking about this and His response surprised Me at first. He said the same thing that ktsnake stated, Financial for Risk Management situations. Greek Organizations are not cash cows. LXA IHQ just had a cut back on staff so as to keep the level of contacts with Chapters as a Priority.

Can it happen, Yes it can. Just as Alpha Sig Scott said, what is the different designs and why?:confused:

Just a quck follow up, In the 60's the only Natinal Fraternitys that were in the process of expansions were LXA and TKE.
All of the rest were very limited especially the Union Triangle Greeks. The Miami Trangle GLOs were a little better but not much.

Trying to expand can be a costly situation too. Depending on what type of School is looked at, it can cost Nationals @ $7,000 and up. This doent include A House.

I was referring to NPC. I agree that it would seem more likely with fraternities.

I cannot see 2 NPC sororities merging unless something drastic happened to the financial base of a group. I do think it is still possible for a non-NPC national/regional sorority to be absorbed by a NPC group. For example, Kappa Beta Gamma has not really grown since it left the NPC...Sigma Alpha Epsilon Pi may one day find it advantagous to petition Alpha Epsilon Phi or Sigma Delta Tau...Mu Epsilon Theta is based on Catholic values like Theta Phi Alpha.

another merger?
 

Delta Phi, a small elitist eastern outfit, is sometimes known as
St. Elmo, and Delta Psi, another dashing group, is generally known as St. Anthony. What if the two groups merged, would they be called SAE? Would the Sig Alphs take 'em? It was a real
kick back in the 50s to visit with the eastern outfits, long before
Williams, Bowdoin, etc kicked them off. Their philosophies were
certainly elitist, and they were more concerned with muted hues
from their indirect lighting in the study than they were of growth.
Then Zeta Psi had to go out and charter at Nebraska Wesleyan,
hardly a Yale...now look where some of them have gone...funny.
Then there are us rustics like Tommy and me, from teachers' colleges (now State Universities!) and even Beta has to wipe off
the cow shit from the bull barns at Purdue. It has been fun, and
some of us "old timers" are in a quandary about extensions, of
glorified shopping centers, inverted mineshafts, gosh, perhaps you can be a Theta Delt by means of the internet!
Worth watching.
Yes, there will likely be mergers, takeovers, absorptions, things we have not even thought of. Even us biggies have law suits galore, and some of us might even bite the dust. Sororities are
less likely to be hurt as they may claim they are dry but they go
across the street and drink, throw up and die at the Sigma Pi's.
This is, of course, hypocritical. And not much we can do about it
other than educate. Ultimate in gall: one NPC had a pissing contest with one of their good chapters, so they closed 'em down
and took their house..as HQ...in Denver. No mind, not much in the
midwest anyway, but had some real good folks here...once.
Yep, worth watching

It is true that you possess a modicum of wisdom, but your provincial attitude makes you laughable. Please, don't make light of the death of a fellow Greek, or any human being for that matter.

Re: Mergers...is is still possible?
 

I don't think there is a problem with it being possible, it is inevitable.

Re: Re: Mergers...is is still possible?
 

Please elaborate.

As has been spoken of already, there are financial issues at stake which will push either merger or dissolution of an organization.

Risk management has been talked about a lot, but we also have to take into account the ever increasing costs of membership, running a national organization, lack of alumni financial support, etc.

Sooner or later, an organization is going to come to a point where the cost of joining the organization does not satisfy the cost of running it. Thus, they will have to raise dues. There will then be a point where people will not be willing to pay for such dues. The organization will either need to cut resources, reduce standards to be a member in order to get more money, or merge with another organization in order to keep costs down on both dues and national organizational costs.

I initiated in 1998 and initiation dues were $230 which includes a lifetime subscription to the national magazine. Less than 10 years later and our dues are nearly $280 without a lifetime subscription to the magazine.

Luckily for us, we have an amazing alumni base who helps out with funding the resources needed to run a great organization.

Hence, as there have been mergers before, it will be inevitable that mergers will happen again. Just because a sorority is in the NPC does not protect them from the necessary action of possibly merging if the necessity arises.

Little do You know.

If You have been around the Greek World as You so Profess, then maybe You have a Modicum of Wisdom.:(

Lets Forget Phi Beta Kappa but get into the current Era.

If there is a Major Law Suit for Risk Management which can happen, there may be Nationals who will no longer exist without a Merger.

So, if that Merger is not completed With Someone, there will be Men and Women who no longer belong to a Greek Organization.

There is No Small Light of or Laff given to any Greek Or Greek Organization given.

It is up to the Greek Organizations and Members to make the decision to stay alive or die. If not, then whose decision is it?

What Erik brings to this site is knowledge of years of having worked at many Colleges and with many Orgaizations.

I Pale in comparasion to Him as I only Know 3 National Directors and keep in contact with them as We all have the same thought in mind.

sensible solutions discussed
 

you guys have a great outlook in that your sensible assessment
of problems facing all of us, i.e., lawsuits, dues, expenses, make it look like you have indeed worked in the central office!
We do not know what's ahead but it would appear to me that it
is in good hands.
As to making fun of a greek death, I would ask sagacious author
to live a bit more. It is gallows humor, far from funny, and it is to
point out the hypocrisy in some corners. And as to a provincial attitude....it is us midwesterners and southerners who have allowed the growth and survival of the greeks, not the idiots from
the east who seem to be hell-bent on dismantling it. So, get back
in traction, Seymour.
Without some humor, though, we will become as stiff as the old
Union Triad folks (pass the trocar, please) and when many of us can hug one another, like Tom and me, et al., we can all work as
one, together, in fraternal closeness. But as to the critics and naysayers who are constantly passing judgment on us...well, they
are something upon which we shall put. EC

If that's all you are concerned about, it's already happening - magazine subscriptions are going bye bye and while I'm sure it pisses off some people, it pisses off way fewer people than a merger would.

And if you merge, you have to realize (especially at this juncture) you'll lose lots of alumni support.

I see sororities getting out of NPC and recruiting and running on their own terms - and possibly forming an alternate type of conference - before they would ever merge.

mergers, absorptions, etc.
 

think we have somewhat covered this now but it is highly unlikely that Kappa Kappa Gamma would merge or absorb or join or take
in an outfit like Theta Nu Xi or some other one without the same
general tenets. The old NPC traditional sororities would hardly go
for the streetcar colleges, many extensions or glorified shopping
center outfits, hen's clubs, houseless groups, and so on. Nothing
at all akin....we have watered down much of the traditional life styles and the new ones have entirely different, but not necessarily inferior aims. But smaller ones, those with less than a
hundred chapters or those weak in some areas, strong in others,
like KD, AOPi, Alpha Xi, Phi Mu might come together as they are in
essence, like organizations. But do not look for Theta to go to AR
Tech or WV State. Nothing stated here to belittle or make light of
existing outfits, so those of you who are all out of breath over this
assessment, go take a shower.
The men's groups, well, same, but there are not as many of those
NIC ones who vary a lot from the other. The Asian, Black, Latino ones I would not look for doing anything but occasionally merging
with each other. They would not fit, say, Beta Sigma Psi or Phi
Mu Delta, let alone Beta or Sigma Chi. No cheap shots here either.
But us biggies are not interested in taking in a potful of outfits who have no housing or who have no aspirations other than to
seemingly "preserve the heritage." Har har har de har har.
Fraternities and sororities are not rehabilitation centers nor are
they non-elitist. We have already gone overboard and I would not be surprised to see a swing back. Perhaps we oughta give a
PhD at birth and then get on with living.

ditto. Any valid information or insight you may have, Erik, is lost.

hen's clubs
 

hen's clubs are not collegiate but wannabees. You cannot seem
to grasp this.

Re: hen's clubs
 

They don't "wannabe" anything. They are a different kind of sorority - they don't "wannabe" in NPC nor do they "wannabe" on every college campus. By your definition, the Junior League and Eastern Star are "wannabes" also.

They just don't happen to like being called hens clubs. I doubt that the Masons or Kiwanis would like being called stag clubs!

Re: Hens
 

It would be one thing if this was just a random reference. But he repeatedly calls these groups hen clubs, even after members of those groups have asked him not to, and explained to him that it was offensive.

It's not shot to hell, it's just a bit sidetracked and i'm sure it will go on. Find me an internet discussion board where threads don't go off topic at times.

/hijack

Re: Hens
 

That was a HIGH SCHOOL sorority (that even you put in quotes as if it wasn't real). Plus, they CHOSE to call themselves that.

Erik is referring to groups that are made up of grown women who do not like this label.

Re: Re: hen's clubs
 

I don't know, I think being called a stag club would be funny.

who are they?
 

I do not think I identified any group, per se, as wannabees or hens clubs. Take your pick...
The term 'hens clubs' was never pejorative. Never. Duh
There are all kinds of clubs out there and we apparently are open
arms to them all, thus watering down our original purposes. But
some of us can reject that notion, participate or ignore it.
Kiwanis, like Rotary, Sertoma, Optimist, Exchange, Lions, etc are
all co-ed now, have been for years...where you been?
The Elks, Eagles, Moose, Legion, VFW, Amvets, GI Forum are all
open to women, have been for years...where you been?
The Eastern Star, Rebekahs, Pythian Sisters...are all auxiliaries to
Masons, Odd Fellows, Knights of Pythias.
I am not familiar with mormon or catholic fraternal clubs.
It would appear you are shooting off your mouths about many of
our organizations without keeping up to date. And while I do go back a-ways, I have been active and loyal...
And have not gotten a bur in my saddle over trivialities.
We are, for the most part, concerned with collegiate-connected organizations, most with greek letters, most with houses, and the
problems we face today. To spread out and be all things to all people...well, if you want to undertake that, prithee do. But most
of us are simply not interested, so let's close the chicken coop.
Think we have pretty well run the gamut. Get over it.

Re: who are they?
 

I agree.

You've been told the term is offensive, so just don't use it anymore.