Celebrity Divorces: Another One
 

I had to make this it's own thread. I just learned...
http://stlamerican.com/articles/2005...ingit00001.txt

I'm saddened to hear about this and all of the others of late:
Eddie, Gabrielle, Babyface, Jessica/Nick,Terrance (again) now Morris.
Is it "Hollywood PC" to NOT be married these days? :confused:

What's really going on?

What the ....???
 

Soror...you mean Morris Chestnutt?! Didn't know he was off on the market? Hmmmmmmmmmmm...:D

Re: Celebrity Divorces: Another One
 

It seems to be. Something is definately going on in Hollywood. They need some strong married couples to step up and set positive examples. Someone needs to tell Hollywood couples that marriage is NOT a game - it takes work - and just because you have the $$ and easy access to leave does not mean you can do whatever you want - be it abuse, infidelity, or just plain unwilling to compromise & then jump up and get a divorce. :rolleyes:

On another note - all of this press concerning Angelina Jolie's and Brad Pitt's "relationship" is sickening. It's just not cute.

I never even knew he was married.

I am dumbfounded. I didn't know he had a wife, let alone a Pam. You know Pam is a sistah. I wish them the best of luck.

Re: Re: Celebrity Divorces: Another One
 

judging from the article, it seems that morris needs to check himself. you dont roll out of a marriage cuz your wife aint 'hearing' you.

tickled, i agree with you. not just hollywood folks, but any of us in long term relationships or are looking to find success in one need to understand that it is hard work; alot of give and take and at times each one giving more than what they may want for the greater good.

i too am sickened by this brad/angelina thing.

Re: Celebrity Divorces: Another One
 

Soror, although you didn't ask, I'm beginning to believe it's an epidemic not only in H'wood, but everywhere. As others have noted, marriage is HARD work! If two people don't want to work at it, it's bound to fail, especially with so many other things vying for one's attention.

No, but...

I just found it intriguing that soooooooo many celebrity couples are asking for separations or divorces, ESPECIALLY some of the(what we thought were) successful AF AM "power couples".

I'm really not all that surprised at some of the recent divorces...I wonder if their close friends are even surprised. Just because you are in the public limelight doesn't mean you are making the right choice for a life partner.

Eddie's marriage has been suspect for years.

Gabrielle and Morris have both been married less than 4 years. Seems they both got to that point where the honeymoon wore off - either you can deal with the person or you can't.

Nick/Jessica - if you've seen just one episode of Newlyweds you wonder how Nick stuck it out as long as he did - no on's virginity is worth the nonsense he put up with!

Terrence - while his wife left him I would hardly refer to them as a power couple - actually I applaud her for leaving now cause it would have been easy to stay now that he's making steady money.

The only couple that really surprised me was Babyface & Tracey Edmonds. It seemed that they had worked out being the power couple both holding down demanding jobs.

I think celebrities get caught up just like real life people. How many people do you know that got caught up with the wedding and the planning and gave little thought to the actual marriage?

Ha! Ha! I understand what you are saying. I know one person in that situation. However, until recently (since Katrina) I didn't know too many people getting married. :(

It just seemed that once the divorce ball in Hollywood started rolling, it hasn't stopped. I'm thinking who will be next? :confused: :(

Just like in real life, these people were not ready to be married. Point Blank.

I think some people are more in love with the wedding planning than the marriage itself. Maybe, just maybe if people will realize that marriage does not equate to fairy tale land then maybe they would last.

I have to agree that many people expect marriage to be a fairy tale. When the 'honeymoon' ends and they have to deal with real issues, they would rather just leave. This stems from not being truly committed in the first place. If you are committed to your marriage, you will not let money, kids or sex (the top reasons for divorce) deter you from your relationship. Additionally, a lot of people are unprepared mentally and emotionally for dealing with another person on the level that marriage requires.

Sorry to crash, but this is an interesting and sad topic. I think one reason Hollywood people divorce so much is that they have so much money. For most people, divorce brings on heavy financial consequences to both parties. The Hollywooders are not going to encounter a drastic change in their lifestyle if they split, so that is one huge deterrent gone. I'm not saying it is the only reason, but I think it contributes.

Preach, Soror preacher!
*Soror btb passing 'round the offering plate. . .*

Re: Re: Celebrity Divorces: Another One
 

Soror, I agree. People are "falling in love" with the idea of being married and not realizing that marriage (and the relationship leading up to) is truly hard work. I know so many people that I went to high school with that got divorce b/c they wanted to add "I'm married" onto their resumes as another accomplishment in their life.

Hmm. Do any of you think that age or length of courtship/relationship prior to deciding to be married plays into whether or not a couple will end up getting divorced? A good friend of mine who is only a couple of years older than my own 21 years of age is planning a wedding with someone she's only been involved with for about 3 months. She feels that she is ready and that this is the man that God meant for her to be with. Since she is my friend I support her and in general I personally think that it doesn't ALWAYS depend on age or length of courtship.

I don't think that the length of courtship or age have as much to do with divorce as the expectations for marriage, values, and personalities of the individuals. There are some 40 year olds who are not ready for marriage. They are some people who have been dating for 3 years and still don't feel they are ready for that step. It's so hard to say whether someone will be more likely to divorce just because of age or something like that. However, if your values are different and one person expects something different from marriage, you will not last.

I do believe age does a play a role in this. I knew a couple who were married at the age of 18 and 19. Their marriage lasted for about 6 months.

Wow. My cousins were married at 19 and 20, and they are still going strong 20+ years later!

Should marriage be the ultimate goal in relationships with the opposite sex?

We live in a reasonably affluent society. Religion and morality aside, is marriage really necessary? Arrangements can be made for children out side of the traditional marriage.

I think in the last few decades the idea that Marriage is more about "love" than socio-economic partnership has changed people's tolerance for being in relationships were te spark begins to die.

But if marrriage is the end result of romantic love, can we reproach people that desire to leave a marriage where that romantic love has faded to a mere affectionate or comfortable friendship?

Or is marriage a promise to stay with someone even when all romatic love has passed away?

This is a very good topic.

Dr. Phil gave a statistic that said 75% of marriages where the couple are under the age of 25 when they marry fail, while only 25% of marriages where the couple are over the age of 25 when they marry fail. Now, he didn't give his source or any of the supporting evidence, so I can't vouch for the validity of this. However, this has stuck in my mind since I heard it. I wouldn't let this dictate my life in terms of whether or not I got married, but I do recognize that there is a lot of growing & changing that happens the first few years out of college. Maybe this has a greater affect on a relationship than someone who may be in their 30s and has a fairly stable life/career.

As for choosing a life partner, when I look at couples who have marriages that last 50-60 years, I don't think that they have the same kind of love that they may have had as newly weds. It definitely is more of a respect/companionship/appreciation for one another type of love, and they definitely have pushed through some rough years. While I would get married today for the "passionate, you're the best thing that's ever happened to me, I can't live a day without you" sort of love, I don't expect to feel that exact same way 60 years down the road. However, I would be greatly looking forward to the "you're my best friend, look at all that we've been through, we've created children, grand children and great-grand children together" kind of love that exists later in life. I guess it just depends on the individual as to whether or not they'd be satisfied with eventually just companionship and respect as well as whether or not they are willing to weather the storm to make it to the golden years.

celebrity marriages?

come on now.

that's an oxymoron.

Aside from the folks I do know...
 

How many of y'all have been married, still are or have gotten divorced...

(And Soror BBT7, Soror WenD08 and AGDee and some others I know about cannot answer this question because I already know your answers...)



James,

You raise a very good question. I think for SOME women, yes, marriage is the end all, be all of a relationship with a man.

And MOST of the time it is because of religious AND morality reasons for folks who do get married. Not all the time, but most of the time.

The minute I got engaged, my mom was already ordering the cake, placing the location at a church and choosing my china patterns... All she needed was a solid date...

The fact that I, nor my now husband, wanted a HUGE (500+) wedding with ice sculptures and how we foiled the plan by eloping is still a bone of contention with my mom, my MIL and me... And YES, it is ALL about "morality" and "duty" and all that "being good daughter crap"...

But, I think one has to get married to see what it's like to be married and how to behave in a marriage. Aside from the hardwork and time to just be with somebody "strange" at sometimes plus or minus kids, it's tough. It's a 9 to 5 job. And I do think American society does a piss poor job of preparing its citizenry for this challenge--regardless of sexual preferences...

Since I really never lived with somebody for any length in time, I cannot comment on that. I chose not to live with my husband before we were married simply because I felt I was too old to "play house" and "wait and see what it's like". I know what I wanted and I knew I wanted my husband to be in my life. My husband says the same thing. I believe him. But that's because we both were in our 30's when we got married.

And YES, age does play a role nowadays. Long time ago, the reasons for getting married were to procreate with a formalized name (meaning = money). And the fact America was an agrarian society. The huge switch may have occured when the Nixon administration changed our monetary system to our gross national product rather than the gold standard--or I think it was the Nixon admin, I could be wrong with my presidents... Anyhow, I don't know if this is cause or effect in marriages as it relates to how our monetary system is organized. But I do know that financial stability is imperative in any maritial relationship with a breadwinner (ironically)... :rolleyes:



Soror AKA2D91, and others:

As far as "celebrity marriages". LA DOES NOT CONDONE 1 ON 1 RELATIONSHIPS!!! I'd say MOST of SoCal does not--maybe pockets of the O.C. does, but even then these things are suspect... Reason #2 why I chose NOT to get married in SoCal...

Even if the couple marries elsewhere and resides in SoCal--I'm sorry, there are so many other opportunities and temptations there that defeats the purpose of marriage so fast.

Like they really do not have "family style" dining anymore in any "reputable" restuarant... And purchasing a home is a sport in SoCal for only the rich and infamous--no benefit for a two-income family--like some HUGE marriage penalty tax--because folks pay state income taxes and the FTB LOVES to collect... And EFF being married with children in SoCal, hayle too many other legal options available for child support and collection. Why be married??? Forget that a stable home environment is conducive to a child--at least that is what the experts say... But who cares? It's all about me.com anyways...

I mean in Dallas, TX, they had "family days" for all events--made me feel like a total outsider when I was single there... Like I had a 3rd eye or something...

Well in Seattle, there is little purpose to getting married out here, but not quite as bad as it is in SoCal--aside from the fact that the pickings are slim in SoCal...


And if my relationship fails for whatever reason and I pray to God it does not--but reality check has to always be in effect, I dayum sho will get divorced in SoCal...

If there is a difference in the rate of divorce from people who marry young, I think it is because the majority of young people are likely to believe in the fairy tale of marriage. They have little experience managing a household on their own. Their money management skills may be lacking. Someone who is 19 or 20 hasn't quite discovered what they want to do with life yet and that can be difficult to go through with another person. The spouse may not be understanding or may be going through the same dilemmas as well.

However, there are mature young people who have lived on their own and have experiences with married couples that may show them some of the reality of married life day to day. On the other hand, someone who is 35 when she gets married is more likely to have her own place and is used to dealing with money, had goals in life, may have accomplished some, and is just more settled overall.

I still think that morals, maturity, values, and committment will determine your success in marriage more than any other factors.

For the record, I'm happily married. ;)

Re: Celebrity Divorces: Another One
 

Shoot, y'all said it all. :p

Soror Conskeeted,

I just have a question: Don't you think that 20+ years ago, it was a lot easier for young people to be married than it is today? Forget the fact that being married at "17" was expected and the norm back in 1965, but my question is more related that the "quintescential [sp?] nuclear family of the 1950" made it easier for young people to handle marriage than that of today...

I dunno, I'm just asking--I just saw Spike Lee's "She Hate Me" movie and it raises a lot of questions on the "concept of family"--especially now during this "wonderful holiday season" :rolleyes:

Hayle, marriage is tough for folks who marry older and are older. Financial understandings aside, it is plain tough, generally speaking...

But as far as "happily married Christmas card"--that I have. That part I do enjoy... Folks are still saying to my husband and I that we are newlyweds and it's now been 2.5 years... And we still haven't had the "official honeymoon"!!! Oh well...

I think it's tougher to be married because the moral fabric of our society has changed drastically from the 50s. Marriage is not valued by many people, single or married. Divorce is seen as an option. 50 years ago, you were talked about and estranged from the social scene if you were a divorcee. There's none of that now. People have nerve and flaunt their infidelities. You hear 'baby mama' more than you hear 'wife.' Marriage was supported by the entire family. Now, you hear parents suggesting that their children live with a person before they commit to marriage. You see grandparents whose grandchildren have 5 different dads and that's ok with them. Because of 'political correctness' people are afraid to say anything offensive. So, we just nod at the couple with 3 kids who have been living together for 5 years and he cheats regularly. We turn our heads when we see a married man at the club dancing witha hoochie mama. No one has stepped up to preserve the integrity of marriage. So, that's why I thihnk it's harder now.

People say to us that we seem like newlyweds too. They are surprised to hear that we've been married and known each other as long as we have. But I hate to admit that it's rare to see someone who's happily married. How awful is that? I'm glad that you're enjoying the perks of married life too Soror Monet. You'll get that honeymoon. But they one you're on now is even better ;)

Re: Aside from the folks I do know...
 

I am married, but have been so for only four months.

I think Soror AKA Monet raised a GREAT point, the view of divorce in this country is regional. I am from Houston and divorce is not even a option for me. For me, getting divorced is paramount to not passing my upcoming bar exam, I would be mortified and feel like I colossally let myself, my husband, and everyone I know down. Now this just has a lot to do with the way I think and even more with the fact that I HATE to fail, but to me I vowed 'till death do us part, not 'till irreconcilable differences.

Again, I am only four months married, so maybe in 10 years I will feel different, but I have always felt this way (even before marriage) so I pray I don't change. I would only allow myself to get divorced if I was being perpetually cheated on or abused, but even then I might just move out and live asexually (not if he cheated) for the rest of my life. I don't know, but it would take a LOT for me to go back on my word to God, although in this day and age of no fault divorce I suppose if my husband really really wanted out, I could wind up divorced without ever agreeing.

So true...so true.

I'm going to bring a different perspective to the topic. I'm not married (would love to be one day) and it wasn't until I got into an "adult" relationship of three years with my significant other "s.o." that I realized that I was not prepared for everything that an "adult" relationship had to offer. By "adult", I mean what it truly takes to make a relationship work (e.g., the sacrifice of time, money and self). I can honestly say that as much as I love my mother (single mom) for preparing me for my life, she did not totally prepare for me being in a relationship with a man. I had to learn (at almost the cost of my relationship) that there are things that you shouldn't say to your s.o., what disrespect truly means, how sometimes your s.o. has to come before yourself, not to take the past out on your mate, etc.

I could go on ad nauseum but the question is this, can black parents do more to prepare their children for the committment of marriage?

Also, my mother did not have me in the church like she should have at a younger age. Church (or what ever religious institution you choose) gives you lessons on how to deal with people and foster relationships. Church was the reason why so many couples back in the day stayed together. Through the teachings of God, they were able to make it work.

Re: Re: Aside from the folks I do know...
 

Congratulations! :D

Soror,
Maybe parents can speak to their children when the children begin dating about choosing a life partner in general (and the qualities that the child may want to really look for someday) and about what comes along with marriage (ex: the compromises, sacrifices, good and the bad). A single parent or a married parent could do this. However, any bitter parent needs to be cognizant of the bitterness and not speak of that in a way that gives the child the impression that that is all relationships. Finally, I am employing in my relationship alot of what I learned by watching my parents interact while I was growing up so however, I know that those experiences may be limited or non-existent for someone who grew up with a single parent. Maybe single parents can establish relationships with others of the opposite sex (whether it be a relative or platonic friend) to at least allow the child to see a positive relationship between a man and a woman, which some of our children lack. Married parents might ensure that what their child is exposed to is healthy (b/c, of course, some married relationships are not necessarily good ones to model).

Finally, we should all consider having an older person that has been married for some time as a relationship mentor. I often run issues by a soror who is close to me that has been married for almost 40 years. I put more weight on her word than the word of one of my unmarried friends who may speak from their own limited experiences. There are many sources from which to obtain info. Even reading a self-help book on relationships can be enlightening. A quick read is "How to love a black man" but I think that it is enlightening.


SC

Great advice.

Re: Re: Re: Aside from the folks I do know...
 

Thank you!

Re; Re: Celebrity Divorces: Another One
 

Soror Unspokenone25 is right!!!! A lot of celebrities just like the idea of being married!!! I find celebrities who doesn't marry within "Hollywood" tend to last longer!!! Look at Denzel and his wife. They've been married for years!!!

Re: Re; Re: Celebrity Divorces: Another One
 

Soror, I thought in People Magazine said they were "separated" and they sold there million dollar home in Beverly Hills, or wherever it was...

I think that history has played a huge role in the breakdown the Black Family. The "cord" of the Black Family has been weak forever--since the first Africans set foot off the slave ships if you catch my drift... So a sembalence [sp?] of a family is a very foreign concept to whole of African Americans.

We also have had a cultural shifts over the last 40-odd years. The Civil Rights struggle gave us much strength, but the response of integration--not desegregation--but integration confused many people... The Vietnam War annihilated African American men altogether, essentially making them emasculated as men if they made it back home. The feminist movement gave some black women freedoms... And Reaganomics, Drugs and AIDS just caused Armaggedeon on the family of African descent--straight up. So, the fact that we have a few of us getting married to anyone is amazing...

The definition of marriage and family has changed culturally. The laws are just behind the times and folks do not want to change. Should it? I dunno?

What can parents do to better prepare their children for marriage and family?

I think what we can do is teach our young people along with sex-ed courses about basic relationships, especially a focus on uplifting self-esteem and showing them that the separation of sex from emotion is a very difficult thing to do when one is immature--especially for a woman or a girl...

As young people get into college, we need to have preparation with how to be in a relationship--marriage enrichment. Proper selection of mates--meaning the "equally yoked idea"--love can only go so far--it really cannot pay the bills...

Then as folks get older--later 20's, early 30's, they can opt to take a course on the balancing act along with mentoring from elder couples that are married. Successful marriages...

And believe me, there are several websites about marriage enrichment, most of them are religious in nature--only about 2 of them that I know of are secular: The Gottsman Institute and Beyond Marriages. The folks I think have pertinent information that are religious are Gary Chapman and Smart Marriages. But you do get into "Focus on the Family" folks that are Christian Right... So you are doing battle with that...

And William Raspberry has some articles about marriages recently in his columns. So he presents some interesting data...

Soror Unspokenone25,

After what I have just been through during the Christmas holidays with my MIL, Church barely played a role in keeping my marriage together... God spiritually does play are role, don't get me wrong, but there is something fundamentally inept in some black churches, most in my area have yet to have a "marriage ministry" other than the minister speaking to a couple before the marriage. That is what happenend with my brother's marriage in 2000, which is now in mediation for divorce right now... Crazy...

I think it takes being Spiritually grounded and always seeking the Lord first before your mate... In fact, if you are Christian--even some Muslims agree with me--that if you place your mate before God, you are idol worshipping--therefore you are sinning... Your mate is not the end all and be all of your life... In fact, you have a life outside of your mate and you need to continue to live it. Otherwise, your own life has little meaning to the main person in the relationship--yourself...

The question is, could you give up your spouse for God if God ask you to do so? And since I only know it from a Christian perspective then this is the only way I can relay what my think is to everyone:

Just like Abraham had to with his promised son Issac?

Just like after Nathan told David about his sin with Bathsheba and their son?

Just like Joseph though he should not marry Mary, mother of Jesus?

Could you leave your spouse if you knew the Spritual Destiny or whatever you wanted to call it asked you to devote yourself to only itself?

Or how strong is your devotion to God?

Soror AKA_Monet: STANDING OVATION!! {{CLAPPING HANDS}} I knew that if anyone could answer my questions, it would be you! Thanks also to Soror SummerChild...these are great responses.

I'm bringing this back up to the front b/c there was discussion about Will and Jada on Delta Ave about their alleged open marriage. It seems that this thread is fitting for anyone that wants to discuss that.