Stanley "Tookie" Williams
 

How do you all feel about the calls for Clemency for Tookie Williams. If you don't know who he is, he's co-founder of the Crips. He's now on Death Row in California for murder. Now you have people like Snoop Dogg (former or current Crips member) and Jamie Foxx (Fox played him in an FX movie). Now I personally don't believe in the death penalty. However, I think that if that's the punishment that was handed out he should get executed. I understand that he has turned his life around but sometimes we must still pay for crimes that we committed in the past. I remember when Carla Faye Tucker was on Death Row in Texas for killing her boyfriend and his lover. She had found Jesus and people like Pat Robertson were asking for clemency. My thought on that is that if you've truly found Jesus then you know that death is not the end. She was eventually executed. So Tookie I'm sorry but you gotta take this one as a loss. Maybe your death will serve as further testament that being in a gang will only lead to death or jail.

i don't know a lot about the specific case at hand AND i am personally opposed to the death penalty for ANYBODY - but...

i think it is a little bit of a slippery slope when death penalty verdicts start getting stayed for "people who have found jesus".

in my opinion - bullshit like that is why the damn death penalty is already inequitably applied.

just my thoughts...

- marissa

I am against the death penalty as well. So, I do not think he should die. I also know that redemption is real. However, I do not appreciate people erasing his sins completely. Yes, you are forgiven of your sins. However, there is ALWAYS a consequence. I don't know how many murders he personally committed. However, I DO KNOW that he is responsible for thousands of deaths in my city.

I am personally against the death penalty, but I do respect that it is a form of punishment for some crimes committed. With that stated, I think if they give him clemency then they need to give everyone on death row clemency. I don't think he should be treated differently just because he has supposedly "reformed" himself.

I would be surprised if Guv. Ah-nulhd of Kollyfornia grants him clemency. Schwarzie's poll numbers aren't great, and he probably needs to hold on to the law-and-order crowd (hard-core GOP who are already sort of suspicious of him) out here, because he's going into an election year.

Exactly

I believe that Mr. Williams efforts while imprisoned have been inspirational to many people both in and outside of gang life. As many of you have mentioned, I too am opposed to the death penalty, I can't see how anyone who considers themselves "faithful"could support it, but that's another topic. However with realism kicking in high gear I don't see Arnold granting it to him unless the public opinion of his hard core supporters shifts. Looking at the past week or so it may be possible. With the protests and what I've been told hundreds of letters being written from within California, Tookie may have a fighting chance.

I am conflicted about the death penalty, mainly because of that one innocent person who may have been wrongly convicted. But by the same token, if you have wrecked havoc in so many people's lives by the killing of their loved ones, then I have very little sympathy.

It is interesting how many convicts find religion while in prison, only to forget about it once they get out. If I thought our prison system was really about rehabilitation, then I would totally oppose the death penalty. But you know what? Who eventually gets out alive are those who learned greater survival skills while incarcerated and may come out even more dangerous. I have witnessed it in my own family.

I applaud those who do come out changed for the better, but I believe it is more because of an embedded good foundation (which they rebelled against) that they were able to fall back on as opposed to a re-awakening in prison. Without that foundation, rehabilitation will not happen, and I don't think Tookie Williams has that foundation.

Right I've got a question... now if he's granted clemecy does that mean he's released? or does it mean life in prison? Basically I want to know if it's an all or nothing when it comes down to it... cause personally I'm against the death penalty; but I see aboslutely nothing wrong with him spending the rest of his life in prison. Worst case he has the rest of his life to contemplate what he has done - best case he can do alot of good helping others turn themselves around.

He would get life in prison.

I support the death penalty. Let the punishment fit the crime.

I agree. I'm against the death penalty, but he shouldn't be treated differently because he is supposedly reformed.

State's high court won't spare Williams
Schwarzenegger could still stop execution of gang founder

Wednesday, November 30, 2005; Posted: 10:00 p.m. EST (03:00 GMT)


SAN FRANCISCO, California (CNN) -- California's Supreme Court Wednesday refused to stop the execution of convicted killer Stanley "Tookie" Williams, the founder of the Crips street gang who became an anti-gang crusader while on Death Row, a court spokeswoman said.

Williams' attorney, Jonathan Harris, told CNN he was disappointed by the court's 4-2 decision.

But Harris said he plans to make a compelling case before Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger or his staff at a December 8 clemency hearing to commute Williams' sentence to life in prison without parole.

Schwarzenegger or a federal court could still intervene to stop the execution of Williams, who would turn 52 December 29.

The defense petitioned the high court November 10 to reopen the case.

Williams' lawyers alleged there was faulty testing of shell casings found near the scene of a triple slaying at a motel in 1979, said Natasha Minsker, director of death penalty policy for the American Civil Liberties Union.

She called the forensic evidence used in the case "junk science."

The defense also contended informants lied to prosecutors and sought to re-examine other evidence, she said.

Williams, who is scheduled to die by injection December 13, was convicted in the 1979 killings of four people. The first victim was a 17-year-old Los Angeles convenience store clerk.

Williams also was convicted of killing an immigrant couple and their daughter while stealing cash from their motel. Both cases were handled in a single trial, and he was sentenced to death in 1981.

After his imprisonment, Williams denounced gang violence and began writing children's books with an anti-gang message, donating the proceeds to anti-gang community groups.

He said he was trying to prevent young people from making the choices he did, which led to a life of crime.

"The only thing that I was doing was destroying my own kind," Williams said in an interview from his cell at San Quentin State Prison.

Actor Jamie Foxx portrayed Williams in a 2004 made-for-television movie, "Redemption: The Stan Tookie Williams Story."

On Tuesday, Virginia's governor spared the life of Robin Lovitt a day before he was to become the 1,000th person executed in the United States since capital punishment resumed in 1977. (Full story)

Lovitt's sentence was commuted to life in prison without parole for stabbing a man to death with a pair of scissors during a 1988 pool hall robbery.

I say "Big Took" should not be executed.

Tavis interviews Tookie
Stanley "Tookie" Williams is scheduled to be executed by the state of California on December 15, 2005, unless its governor, Arnold "the Govenator" Schwarzenegger, commutes Mr. Williams' sentence or postpones his execution.

Does the Govenator have the moral courage to do either of the above? Probably not. But I'm not letting my pessimism stand in the way of what I believe to be a noble cause: sparing a man who has committed himself to redemption on a scale larger than what most of us can even imagine.

Not surprisingly, the mainstream media is not providing adequate coverage on this story, nor is much of what is covered about it particularly inspired.

Fortunately, we can count on Tavis Smiley -- per usual -- to shed some much needed light and perspective on this matter. And Tavis and his production staff have asked me to share with you this short audio clip as a prelude to a longer interview with Mr. Williams that he will be airing on his new nationally syndicated radio show this weekend.

For those of you who want to share this audio vignette, please do so by copying and pasting the specific URL that will take you directly to the interview which I have provided below:

http://www.afro-netizen.com/files/st...for_web_v3.mp3

I saw the movie "Redemption" with Jamie Fox. I searched the web and found a lot of information on how the crips (and other gangs) got started that wasn't in the movie. I also found a lot of information on Stanley Williams and his trial. Here are some photo....

This is what he looked like (29 yrs old) about the time he first got to prison:

Back in the day

This is kinda what he looks like now (52 yrs old):

Now

All I gotta say is "I ain't ever tryin to go that place!" They would be auctioning my azz off for about two or three carton of cigarettes.:confused:

OH MY @ how cut Tookie is.

I have no words for BobbyEarl's closing statement.

BET Show
 

On Wednesday, December 7th BET will be airing a special on Stan"Tookie" Williams at 7:30pm. I plan on checking it out to learn some more about the case. Just thought I would pass the info on to everyone else.

Did anyone watch the special???

I was in and out when the show was on, but if all these people believe that he is innocent, while are they settling just for getting him clemency? I don't know if I missed this during the show or what, but if he is innocent for the crimes he is convicted of then why don't they try and get him out of jail instead of just clemency?

Do you think Gov. Arnold will grant him clemency?

I missed the 8pm show. I won't miss the 10pm show. Maybe right now they would rather just try and get his death sentence kicked first. Then, maybe they should work on getting him exonerated. If you are going to use all your eggs, you don't want to put them in the wrong basket, especially when a life hangs in the balance.

If you look at some of the old court documents and history of his case, Williams has claimed his innocence from day one. Of course, his history with the Crips and other incidents, particularly in prison, have only helped the people who are against him. Again, I don't know if he committed the murders or not. However, I do know that the government has always had a reputation for concealing the truth and continuing to keep high profile African Americans (Like Larry Hoover - Gangster Disciple) behind bars or in the grave. Plus, California law enforcers are no boy scouts, themselves. If he was framed, I certainly hope that he gets out. They have already taken 25 years of his life, anyway.

Can you imagine? Going in at 28 and coming out at 52.:confused:

I am not against the death penalty. However, studies show that death sentences are disproportionately handed to minorities as opposed to whites. But in this particular case, I feel that he has what is coming to him. Yeah, he is supposedly "reformed" but don't many of the people in jail claim to have found religion?
Further, think about the monster that this man created. Think about all of the lives, especially the innocent lives, that have been taken as a result of the gang this man founded. Gangs have become a major killer in the African American community, largely as a result of the gang that he created and the glorification of gang life in media or whathaveyou. The black people- gang memebers and innocent people- who have died as a result of the organization he created did not have their lives spared- why should he? Yeah, he has written children's books and vowed to be an upstanding human being, but who know what the people who've died as a result of his gang would have done with their lives- who knows what kind of leaders they would have become and how they would have uplifted the black community.
If there was a former slavemaster on death row, claiming that he found god and is reformed, begging for clemency black people would be up in arms. Here we have a man who is directly or indirectly responsible for taking the lives of so many of our people and for destroying so many of our familes and here we are begging for his life to be spared...I just can't get with that.

A Very Good point.

That's why I don't agree with the death penalty. I think it is unfairly given to blacks more than any other race. That's why it needs to be outlawed, but with the looks of our supreme court becoming more and more conservative I don't think that will be happening.

The Supreme Court doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the death penalty is adopted in your state. You do (as in voters). And even if it is adopted, your state legislature can overturn the ruling.

You do have some say as to whether or not your state has this. Contact the appropriate people (elected officals, committees, etc.) and let them know how you feel.

The Supreme Court can rule that capital punishment is not a proper form of punishment and outlaw it. Remember they just ruled recently that it was unconstitutional to give minors the death penalty. Which all minors on death row had that sentenced changed to I believe life in prison. It doesn't matter how the state votes cause the Supreme Court has the final say.

An excellent point. Gang behavior has absolutely eroded a great part of our community, in particular rendering young men absolutely unfit for marriage and family formation.

so true! he was not given clemency per the news today!

He was executed this morning.
For some strange reason, I actually thought Williams had a chance. I guess Schwarzenegger must be planning on running for Vice President one day. He didn't want to piss off any politicians. On a good note, I was really surprised to see the amount of people (white and black) who spoke out in Tookie's defense. Many of them were against the death penalty, not for Tookie's innocence. Nevertheless, I was still amazed at the number of celebrities and other influential people. Didn't matter, though. Arnold did not budge.


Reminds me of a scene from the movie Lackawanna Blues:

1956, White judge talks to a black man on trial for assault:

Boy, you hurt two white men in one week.
You broke a white man's arm.
You hurt a white man's feelings (by telling him, "Go to Hell").
10 years, next case!

He can't run for Vice President. Well, not unless we change the Constitution.

But, he might want to be governor again. So, politically, he made the move he had to make.

I think he should've gotten a life sentence simply b/c I'm against the death penalty, as it just give people the easy way out. It's great that he found God and realize the error of his ways, but that doesn't change what he did. He helped start one of the most negative forces in the nation's history, and even tho he changed his life, that did nothing for the many ppl that are still in the gang. But hopefully this will help steer some people who are headed into gang life in the right direction by letting them know this is where they'll end up.

Who should we really point the finger at?
 

Tookie didn't start "one of the most negative forces in the nation's history". Poverty, lack of protection (teenager) in low income community, police brutality, and governmental flooding of the ghettos with heroin, and high unemployment rate for minorities (black and hispanic), and a host of other reasons are what started these gangs. If Tookie didn't come along it would have been someone else. People join gangs as a means of coping with their everyday surroundings. When you have all these elements working against you what else can you do? Now many people from these areas didn't join gangs, so I am not making excuses. However, I don't feel that Tookie's initial intentions (when he co-founded the crips) was not the CRIP gang that we see today. I think his initial intention was focused on protection and survival, like any other gang. Now, you want to talk about a NEGATIVE FORCE. Take a look into the white house, law enforcement, supremacist groups, congressmen, and our own "people's champ" the media. Those are the real gangsters. They send (or contribute to the idea) young men and women to die everyday to get more power, kinda like Crips and Bloods. The only difference is Tookie led by example on the front lines. Bush's draft dodging azz has never put on a uniform, but he has no problem sending his soldiers to war.

Instead of blaming Tookie, lets take a look at the community, judicial system, law enforcement, and government that nurtured this gang. You can't blame the "NATIVE SON" for being violent, you blame the country that gave birth to him.

BTW, what about all the "ill gotten" evidence used to convict him in the first place. Ballistics from the shotgun didn't match the first time, but miraculously they matched the second time. Jailhouse snitch who testified that Tookie confessed to the murders later stated that the cops beat him to within and inch of his life to get his statement. Now these two shaky pieces of evidence were the only legs the prosecution had to stand on. Of course, no one cares, because the agenda was to get the co-founder of the crips behind bars, BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

As for the death penalty, I am all for it, once we get a fair judicial system that exercises the 200+ years constitutional rights for minorities as well as majorities. However, seeing as how we have a long time before that will happen, maybe we need to take a closer look at whom and why we sentence to death.

But that's just my $.02...

Re: Who should we really point the finger at?
 

I think you can point the finger at Tookie and the government at the same time.

Sure, gangs (like the Mafia) were started with one goal in mind. However, it has evolved into one of the most detrimental group of organizations that I can think of in recent history. Also, please believe that Tookie was involved in that evolution.