Go Greek, go gay
 

Go Greek, go gay
Groundbreaking author visits Atlanta during national fraternity conference with book on gay men in fraternities.

By BUCK C. COOKE
Friday, November 25, 2005


Shane Windmeyer wrote the book on being gay or bisexual in a fraternity — literally.

Actually, he edited two of them. “Brotherhood: Gay Life in College Fraternities” was released in October by Alyson Books. A book on lesbians and bisexuals in sororities is sold separately as a companion to “Brotherhood.”

Windmeyer visits Atlanta Nov. 30-Dec. 3 as a featured presenter at the North American Interfraternity Conference/Association of Fraternity Advisors Annual Meeting.

Windmeyer also hosts a release party for “Brotherhood” for conference attendees and a book signing.

“Brotherhood” is a collection of first-person accounts of gay life in college fraternities. It tackles controversial topics including sex and dating between fraternity brothers. The book reflects the increasing diversity in the fraternity world, featuring gay, straight and bisexual writers from traditional, Latino, Asian and gay fraternities.

“The book offers something for everyone, from professionals working with fraternities and sororities, or a person wondering what it might be like to rush openly gay,” Windmeyer says.

Windmeyer founded the Lambda 10 Project in 1995 with Dr. Pamela Freeman, a faculty member at Indiana University. The group supports gay visibility and acceptance in the Greek world.

“Ten years ago, we would have never talked about rushing as an openly gay rushee. Ten years ago, men were having sex with men in their fraternity, and no one talked about it,” Windmeyer says. “Now, we’re talking about that and addressing those issues, but we leave it open to the reader to make their own decisions.”

Since then, the visibility of gay and bisexual fraternity men has grown, Windmeyer says.

“We have more straight allies,” he says. “Fraternity men are beginning to understand that brotherhood is not just going out drinking. It is about supporting each other and standing behind your fellow members. Being a good brother is being an ally. … If you have a strong brotherhood, you can overcome any homophobia.”

Before Lambda 10 was founded, there were “two or three” groups addressing sexual orientation, Windmeyer says.

“Now we have 18 that have passed policies inclusive of sexual orientation, and we have almost two dozen groups that have educational work dealing with sexual orientation,” he says. “Fraternities are not known for asking for help, so we have tried to forge relationships to make that possible.”

Despite the advances, there is still unbroken ground, Windmeyer says.

“The old men in positions of power, though, are going to do what they do best, and that is ignoring the issues,” he laments.

Sigma Chi Fraternity deserves to be recognized for its advancement of gay issues, and would win the “Gay Is Okay Award” if it existed, according to Windmeyer.

In the past year, a Sigma Chi chapter in Texas was featured on an episode of “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.” Another member was on the cover of the Advocate, and the fraternity’s international magazine repeatedly features articles on gay issues.

And Sigma Chi is not alone.

“There are a dozen groups who are trying to be proactive instead of reactive,” Windmeyer says. “Our undergraduate men will continue to push their groups and push [gay] issues to the forefront, and these are the men who will become leaders and politicians and who will pass laws that will allow gay men to live their lives.

“Fraternities can be positive change agents for gay life,” he adds. “You can open up the minds of straight people by being in these groups, and teach them that their lives should be the same in terms of marriage, job security, etc.”

Fraternity men in the future will say “my brother who is gay should have the same things too,” the author says.

more at sovo.com

Other Books Out Here!

There are Gay Brothers/Sisters in All Greeks!

Is it a total Surprise?:rolleyes:

:|

IDK...they might be pushing the issue more that it needs to be pushed like it is.

I think 'pushing' the issue at the conference he is presenting at is not only accpetable, but timely. Its the AFA - the professional org for greek advisors. Those are the people on the front lines of this issue who deal with this stuff on a weekly basis. I dont think a presentation to them at their annual meeting is 'pushing'. I think its professional of them to have this presentation.

If it was at a conference for 18 year old new members, then I could consider it 'pushing' the issue.

Ridiculous
 

I hope that nationals are not taking this stuff seriously. This is really pushing the issue far too much, and the fact that some liberal starts shooting his mouth off about fraternities being accepting and tolerant. We are exclusive societies, I cannot beleive that in my organization open toleration of homosexuals would ever be brought up. Last year Sigma Chi magazine had a picture of a shattered cross with regards to an article about gay Sigs. Our founders must have been rolling in their graves.

Re: Ridiculous
 

What is so wrong with be accepting and tolerant? Everyone can learn something from everyone else, if they are willing to do so. If there is someone in your organization that maybe you wouldn't have ever thought you would want to have as a brother, whether because its of sexual orientation or race or religion or whatever, then that's just a challenge for you to try to figure out what it is that you can learn. Deal with it, make the best of the situation, and you might be surprised.

And has it ever occured to you that just because your founders started your organization one way, that doesn't mean it was finished right then? It's up to the brothers who follow them to continue to shape the organization and keep making it better - and that might mean changing some things.

Re: InHocYall
 

dito... and my boyfriend is a SigEp

Re: Re: InHocYall
 

Buck Cooke, who wrote the article in the original post, is the Greek advisor at my school (Georgia Tech) and he's gay. I just really don't see why it has to be such a big deal.

Sigma Chi was based among other things on Christian values. I do not beleive that true fraternity can thrive when you are looking to 'date' brothers. As a brother in my chapter I prefer to preserve the prestige and tradition that have made us a top tier national fraternity. If you want to go progressive join some 'progressive' fraternity that was founded in 1998. I value tradition and am adapting my life to represent the ideals, not adjusting the ideals to modern times.

At Otterbein, every single fraternity has at least one openly gay member. There are no instances of brothers dating brothers. It just doesn't happen. Gay people don't hit on every person they see, just like hetero people don't hit on everyone they see.

You "preserve the prestige and tradition that have made you a top tier national fraternity"...well, guess what, some of that prestige and tradition is the result of brotherhood, which, more than likely, INCLUDES GAY MEN. I'd venture to say that every national fraternity has gay members, it's part of life.

and it's great that you were founded on christian ideals...shouldn't that mean accepting a brother as well? He is initiated in the same bonds as you, no? I'd never deny or denounce a sister because she's a lesbian. I'd never deny or denounce her because she's Muslim or Protestant or Jewish or Agnostic and I'm Catholic. I won't because she wears the same pin I do. She has equal value and standing in the sorority. Obviously, someone in my organization thought her worthy to enter our bonds, and in respect to that, I must trust my sister.

I'd also be denying one of my vows..."To thy own self be true". It's been our motto since 1915. Asking a sister to be anything other than what is in her heart is against our sorority law.

"It is easy to be with people we agree with, but it is enlightening to be with people whom we do not understand."

:rolleyes: Homophobic much?

This is a pretty asinine argument, especially since Sigma Chi includes members who aren't any kind of Christian. Should they all be removed for not being Christian?

It's the same basic line of reasoning for gays in a fraternity or sorority.

Furthermore, I don't think most gay men would want to date within their own fraternity, but would seek to date outside the chapter, for reasons that should be fairly obvious.

And just so you know, I'm a moderate on the issue of gay rights. I don't think the country is ready to accept gay marriage, but I could see civil unions gradually spreading to the more liberal and maybe one or two moderate states in the current social climate. (This of course precludes those multitude of states that banned gay marriages with their recent passed amendments.)

Don't let this jag portray my fraternity this way. He speaks solely for himself.

I know several of the fraternities at GT have policies against dating within the chapter. Is this a common practice?

wow. so i guess this guy thinks all sigma chi's are christian and that gays can't be christian. that's a pretty narrow view of the world.

i've been working in student activities for 5 years now and there tend to be a lot of gay men in this field b/c it is very accepting and supportive of everyone who wants to help students grow and develop. we also talk with a lot of students about gay issues, whether it's a group wanting to improve gay presence on campus, a student who is coming out or the college republicans who want a heterosexual celebration.

after meeting a lot of gay professionals and getting to know them, i found out A LOT of them are fraternity members. they didn't join to date their brothers. that's like saying that all fraternity or sorority members must be gay b/c who would want to hang out with a bunch of the same sex all the time? they join for many of the same reasons you and i did, not for an immediate pool of people to date.

I don't know, to be honest. I'm sure other people would be able to give an answer though.

That's really surprising to hear, and quite frankly, a bit disheartening. You would like to think that such bright students, in such an enlightened city as Atlanta, would think a bit differently.

I graduated from Tech in '04, and was active in my Chapter, as well as IFC the entire time that I was an undergraduate, yet never heard of this kind of thing from friends in other houses. I'm curious as to what "several" means in your post? Off the top of my head, I can think of eight or nine houses that have openly gay members. That's what, 25% of the IFC groups on campus?

My Chapter has multiple openly gay members, and I can't think of anything more offensive to them than someone standing up at a meeting and saying "I would like to amend our by-laws to state that so-and-so can't date anyone in the Chapter." Does that really need to be said? Do people really think if someone's gay they're out to have sex with every person they know?

And for what it's worth, having worked with Buck Cooke for a number of years, I can't say enough good things about him. Kappa Sigma is very lucky to not only have him as a member, but as a Chapter founder as well.

I don't think any names would be named. It's just something that usually comes up if that situation DOES occur and ends in a trainwreck. I believe that when we decided to have a chapter sweetheart, we put in our bylaws that it could not be a current boyfriend of a sister, just to avoid the drama that might ensue if we didn't spell that out.

And heaven knows that co-ed fraternities might be better off having such a rule in their bylaws too, but that is another thread :p

I believe trainwreck is the word of the day on GC.

I do know that the co-ed pro-fac GLOs at UofT had (maybe still do) bylaws prohibiting the dating between active members -> all in an effort to I guess head of any drama within their respective chapters... so I can't really see a problem with that being extended to same-sex relationships within GLOs.

two of the undergrads that I currently advise in my fraternity dated last year. They were dating before they joined. About a year into it, they broke up. Ya know what? The chapter didnt close, they are both still very active and the chapter is still the top house on campus.

Either way (gay members, or gay members dating) it really isnt the end of the world.

I don't think it's meant to be an offensive thing by any means. I don't know the exact numbers - I was told about the policies by a gay member of the Tech chapter of Phi Kappa Theta, who was in support of them. Dating between members of any organization can be a problem - this is why there are policies against it in office environments, after all.

And yeah, Buck Cooke does rock. While I've worked more with Danielle McDonald than with Buck, personally, my interactions with him have always been really positive - he's a great guy.

this is a great topic and i am very happy to hear so many open-minded and acceping responses from fellow greeks.

have any of your campuses done the greek safe zone project or worked with Lambda 10 or done any other program to discuss homophobia within greek life? Just curious because I work in the student leadership and involvemetn office of my grad school and am talking with our GLBT services GA and our new greek advisor about doing soemthing on the topic. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

I think that might be seen as forcing the issue and may be greeted with hostility by fraternities. School's have been exerting more and more control over GLO's and programming like that might be seen as the administration trying to stick its hand's into selections.

the programs i am implimenting are going to be optional. i am just a grad student and have no control over any GLO's. i am also no part of the school or the administration moreso than a student leader and student affairs employee ( I do website design). With other offices, I am just going to try to have speakers so the topic is out there. Noone has to attend; they will not be forced. And the Greek Safe Zone project is like many schools' ALLY programs that are again optional and anyone who is interested is invited to come and be involved in the workshop and at the end, students would become certified members of the greek safe zone, who's objective is to keep the greek community safe for the GLBT community and to open dialogue on the topic within the greek community. There are there to be aware of any violence or extreme discrimination of GLBT greeks.

Also, why would you assume fraternities would be hostile about opeing the topic? I have talked to many fraternity men who think it is a great idea and have no problem talking about it, even as far as voicing concerns about gays in their fraternity. I think to say something like that, that fraternities will be hostile about discussing GLBT issues, is like saying all fraternity men are meat-head homophobics, when in many cases fraternity men are very open, especially when they have pledged their love and support to their brothers, who in actuality might be gay. In fact 1 in 10 men in this country is gay, so chances are each fraternity has at least one gay member whether he is out or not and by talking about the subject in a greek perspective, these members might feel more comfortable sharing themseleves with their brothers and the brothers can have some background in order to know how to react and feel open to ask questions.

I don't see this as a bad thing for fraternities at all. With so many stereotypes of greeks out there, elimintaing the homophobic label would be one less.

It's great that you want to work on educational programs, but before you do, please don't give out statistics that are not true or that are extremely misleading, such as this one. What you said is NOT a fact. I have no idea what percentage of men are gay in this country, nor do I care, but just because you've heard something somewhere doesn't make it a fact.

If there was a real statistic on this, chances are it would be much more precise than 1 in 10.

Same goes for what followed in that sentence: ". . . so chances are each fraternity has at least one gay member whether he is out or not . . . ."

Even if 10% was accurate, which as you said it probably is not (statistics I have seen put it closer to 3-4%), that's the general population. You can't accurately take that percentage and assume it holds true in every sub-group of the general population, especially self-selecting sub-groups. Some sub-groups will have a higher percentage than the general average, and some will have a lower percentage.

Quoting just because the "1 in 10" statistic has absolutely no merit. It was based on the Kinsey report which has been shown to be skewed (to say the least).

Maybe 1 in 10 has had what could be classified as a gay "experience" - but that doesn't make you gay.

homosexuals/lesbians
 

why can't we deal with real problems...like p.r., behaviour,
drinking, and leave the private matters to the rump rangers,
and the worries about diversity to the profs?
How much more diverse can we get? And now we got the fat
girls, hoggers, and lordy knows who else....we might get so diverse that we do not even talk to one another.

Re: homosexuals/lesbians
 

Great! Why don't you start that one?

Sorry, I got that statistic from the Lambda 10 project and I remember reading it a few other places as well. If it is not accurate, I'm sorry. I did not read anythign about it being skewed.

I don't understand how homophobia is not a real greek problem? and the fact that you refer to gays as 'rump rangers'.... and as far as leaving diversity to the classroom, that doesn't make too much sense, we are college students and there is alot more to oue education than just classes. the real opportunity for learning and living diversity is in student programs and our everyday lives.

I do agree that there are very important issues to deal with inside the greek community, including alcohol abuse, etc. but I feel that getting this topic out there is going to make a more open environment for everyone. and im not expecting a ton of people to come to events or have everyone be okay with GLBT members (we don't even have to know who is or who isn't gay). Its just about the dialogue, letting the GLBT members know about the services the university has for them and who they can go to, as well as lessen one of the streotypes of greeks. I can't do anything about greeks being thought of as alcoholics, hazers, elitists, or whatever other large scale generalizations people make, but I would like to have at least the students at my school feel that the greeks here are willing to talk about the issue and that many are accepting or at least are not hostile towards them.

I did not jump on this thread to argue statistics. I was hoping to get some ideas for my programs as far as speakers etc. Feel free to pm me if you have ideas, as some have already done.

Thank you.

It's not a question of "arguing" statistics, but if you use ones that are untrue you will get shot down very quickly and the whole point of your message will be lost. Just educate yourself and ask questions about something's validity before you try to educate others.

Isn't Lambda 10 a gay rights activist and research organization?

The numbers are as skewed as any other data. It's all based on research bias and the sample population they are attempting to generalize from. Some stats are more accurate than others. If my recollection of what Lambda 10 is is accurate, then they an obvious agenda, which can lead to even less objectivity in order to further their purpose.

Yes. http://www.lambda10.org/

Related Thread

I have also "heard" the 10% number in the past. I have no idea if it is true or skewed.

Lambda 10 is obviously a gay activist organization and does, as obviously, have an agenda.

An agenda does not necessarily mean skewed data, though.

Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

It's a little like saying that a given political party always lies.

Well, maybe that's a bad example.

Social science data is always skewed because of researcher bias. The question is only a matter of HOW skewed and in which direction.

Politicians always lie. Some just lie less than others.

ETA: My use of the term "skewed" can be misleading. The bias in data is not always deliberate but it is inevitable. So, the 10% is undoubtedly filled with bias and whether this bias is deliberate to fill an agenda is not something those of us who aren't on Lambda's 10 research team would know. There isn't much data regarding this so there's nothing to really compare it to to gauge the accuracy.

My recollection is that 33girl is right in saying that the 10% figure, at least as often stated in public discourse, originated with the Kinsey Report, which is not accepted as accurate these days given the methodology of data collection. And I think that is where the "10" in "Lambda 10" comes from, although I have no reason to think that Lambda 10 is not a responsible advocacy group.

dznat187, except for one particular poster who, I think it is safe to say, does not represent the views of the typical college student of today, I don't think anyone is saying that homophobia (as much as I think that word is overused and misused) doesn't exist in the Greek world. That one poster should simply be ignored in a discussion like this one.

Concerns by some that programs might not be well-received doesn't necessarily = denial of homophobia. Perhaps it's a bad analogy, but here you go: I know that sexual harassment, gender or sexual orientation discrimination, and the like are problems in many, many offices and I think those things need to disappear from the work place. But I absolutely dread having to sit through a "sensitivity" class on those topics, if for no other reason than they are usually boring, they inevitably come across as preachy and politically correct, and, as far as I can see, they accomplish little except to make the participants resent the time they feel like they have "wasted" while the presenters feel like "good has been done here." Just my take.

As for resources, have you read Out on Fraternity Row: Personal Accounts of Being Gay in a College Fraternity, published by Lambda 10?

naw...
 

naw, being polite, you go first....you have such a charming way

of expressing yourself, to the delight of many of us...

Statistics on closeted topics...
 

Statistics on numbers in the LGBTQ community (I'll use the term "queer" for anyone in these and related communities) are very hard to make accurate. There are obviously many reasons as to why:

The first is obviously fear. I know far too many queer men and women who have been threatened and harmed due to being "out". Some queers choose to tell no one of their sexual identity due to this.

The second is definition. What makes a person queer? It is action? desire? attraction?

There are men who sleep with men who will not id as queer. There are men who sleep with women alone and will id as queer. There are men who sleep with no one will not id as queer even though they are attracted to men. You can do the same for women. (I'm just not going to type all of it out again)

Now, given all of this is it surprising accurate statistics are hard to find?

But the fact of the matter remains: It doesn't matter how many or few people are queer. People are more than their sexual identity and as Greeks it is the PERSON not the sexual identity we should care about and recruit.

Re: Statistics on closeted topics...
 

No and it is important for agencies like Lambda to provide disclaimers and limitations for their data. Just like other social science research does.

I am not saying that Lambda doesn't provide disclaimers at times but it is so easy for people to take numbers and run with them when there's a political agenda.