Law School...
 

anyone here in/graduated from a Law School...I need some ideas of ways to possibly improve my chances of getting into Law School

There are a TON of current/former law students on GC. What specifically do you want to know?

Also, if you do a search you might find some old threads on this - I know we've had a few.

Yeah, that's a HUGE question. You gotta be a hell of a lot more specific.

First piece of advice- learn to be self-sufficient and resourceful. I.e. use the "search" feature.

eta: here's a thread with good advice for someone who is underqualified for law school: http://greekchat.com/gcforums/showth...=&pagenumber=1

I was not aware the board had a search feature but thanks for pointing that out...and as far as my question goes...I meant are there any sorts of activities or groups that I could join that are likely to help my chances to get accepted...I know a lot of the law firms in Columbia hire students as "runners" and whatnot due to my schedule this semester I was unable to even look into a job such as that but I am trying to find one for next semester

Factors that will get you into law school.

1) LSAT
2) Grades

<huge cut off>

3) Extracurricular stuff

Unless you have a really unique circumstance, it's pretty much all GPA and LSAT. Extra stuff can't hurt, but it doesn't always help.

Agreed. LSAT and grades are pretty much all that matters. If you are borderline to a school's desired numbers, they may consider other stuff. But usually that's, as GP says, unique circumstances- like a life-changing illness, taking care of your orphaned brothers and sisters, etc.

There are a ton of websites out there that talk about law school.

But I think before you get into this whole thing, it's best to figure out if it's something you want to do. There's a TON of people going to law school right now. The economy sucks, therefore the job market sucks, and there is an absolute glut of new attorneys everywhere.

One of the perks of working at a law firm in undergrad is that you can ask lawyers to write letters of recommendation for you. It would help if they are alumni of the school you want to apply to. Of course, you probably would want to work there for a few months before asking.

Ditto to Dani and GeekyPenguin though, try to improve your GPA as much as possible and do the best you can on the LSAT. Good luck!

Get to know and love this website

You forgot to mention law school sucks. ;)

Or at least sucks out your soul.

well yeah, that's a given, since us lawyers don't have souls ;)

I really don't know if there is that much of a perk, admissions-wise, of working for a law firm while an undergrad. Nor is there necessarily a lot of opportunities for part time work in law firms.

You'd likely be a fileclerk/gopher- grunt work. Benefits would be getting somewhat of a chance to see how a law firm works and see if it might be the sort of thing you'd want to do with your life. Unless you work at a firm where one of the attorneys has some big time pull (i.e. is an adjunct there or donates lots of $$$) at your desired school, I don't think a letter of rec from an attorney will make that much of a difference.

Get your grades and your LSAT up. That's what counts. Some people say it's unfair, blah blah blah, but that's life. Unless you have an exceptional life story, no one gives a isht about the rest.

To answer your question- no. They most likely won't even look at your extracirriculars unless you're below their "magic number" (i.e. the composite number, calculated from your LSAT and GPA). And if they do, they likely just want to see actual INVOLVEMENT in something, not just a "paper" member in something like an undergraduate chapter of Phi Alpha Delta (a law fraternity). How involved are you in your TKE chapter? Showing actual leadership skills. Your ability to fill out an application and pay some fees to join a club doesn't matter. It's what you do with it.

And again, being a "runner" won't really do squat for you when it comes to getting into law school. As I said, it may expose you to some things and influence whether you want to get into this crazy profession, but a law school isn't going to care that you were a gopher for Dewey, Screwum & Hard.

My brief credentials for giving advice on this:
Pitt Law '05, admitted to practice in PA (and hopefully WV & OH within the next year), and an actual EMPLOYED attorney.

is law school really that bad?? It seems like EVERYONE I have talked to has tried to talk me out of going to law school including my parents (who on the other hand tell me they will disown me if I ever get involved in politics...Im a Political Science major by the way). I am currently working on getting my GPA up (had a rough semester last semester and an equally rough one this semester...so my GPA is a little lower than what I would like it to be)...I havent yet started really studying for the LSAT (Im in my first semester of my sophomore year right now) but I plan on beginning over Christmas break, when I actually have some time on my hands. I have wanted to go to law school since I was in about 4th grade...and really cant imagine what kind of work I would get into if it was not the law. As far as the reasons I want to go to law school...it isnt for the money, although it would be nice, but I actually do have a passion for the law and besides I think I need to do something in life that will really challenge me...I tend to get bored (especially with academics) when the material really isnt that hard to grasp.

Yes, it is that bad. And it's very competitive, both getting in and once you're there. Especially right now when there's an absolutel glut of young lawyers.

Really, no offense to you, but it cracks me up when I hear people say that they "have a passion for the law" when they have absolutely no exposure to what the law REALLY is- when they've never been through law school or worked in the field, etc.. You don't mention any real exposure to what it is to be a lawyer, so I wouldn't go around saying you have a passion for the law- especially don't say it on a law school application or something! It's a meaningless, B.S. statement unless you have something to back it up.

Poli Sci isn't a bad major to have, but if it's like at my school, it was a small major credits-wise, so you may want to find something to supplement it academically. Poli Sci majors are a dime a dozen (at least!) in law school. Especially if you don't have high grades, find some way to academically set yourself apart. As a side note, if you have any constitutional law classes in your poli sci major, I would probably recommend taking at least one to get some exposure.

If you get bored with academic material easily, especially that that isn't hard to grasp- then why aren't your grades up to par? It seems like a silly statement to make when your grades aren't as high as they should be.

USCTKE, you sound a lot like me. And yes, law school really really is that bad. You are immersed in a subject. If you have any friends who are engineers, think about how much time they spend in labs, on problem sets, all that crap - that's how much time it takes. If you really really want to do it, by all means, go for it - but I would strongly recommend taking a year off, and halfway through my 1L year, wish that I would have.

I used to not think law school was bad at all, because I dated a guy who was in law school and all he did was sit around on his a$$ and 1) play video games, and 2) surf the internet. I never saw him doing any actual work! Guess that's why he graduated at the bottom of his class and is, the last I heard, unemployed.

ok passion was the wrong word...but the only thing I could think of at the time...should have said very strong interest I guess, even spent a lot of time around the county courthouse the summer after my senior year just trying to get a feel for some of the things that lawyers had to do. My general education classes are the ones that drag my GPA down...because they just arent interesting to me and sometimes I do not devote as much time to them as I should...my philosophy (Intro to Logic) class this semester for example, my professor spent almost a month going over the simpliest material (mostly just common sense stuff (like if a=b and b=c then a=c very simple stuff)...I ended up getting bored in class because she went over the same thing day after day. I was half paying attention in class by the end of September when she started moving on and then she went through the rest of the class (the harder part) spending only one class (on average) per topic...I am not doing that bad in the class (I should be able to pull out a B if I get a good grade on my final)...it seems like the easier the material taught is the less time I spend studying...which is completly my fault...next semester I am taking a Constitutional law class and the Judicial process class that USC offers.

Starting paying attention in logic. It will help you a TON on the logic games portion of the LSAT. I took Intro to Logic my freshman year, thought it was a breeze and got an A+, but didn't retain as much as I would've liked to. If you do well and review it every so often after the class is open, it will help you a lot with the LSAT.

Hey Kddani, here is a course description from the UTC catalog about a logic course they offer. Do you think that this would qualify for a good logic course? I too am trying to get prepped for law school by also getting my GPA up to an acceptable level and prep for the LSAT.

Phil 211 Logic, Language, and Evidence (3)
An examination of accepted forms of reasoning and of the varied ways in which language functions; fallacy, definition, metaphor, and theories of meaning; examples from such areas as science, law, politics, theology, and philosophy; classical and symbolic logic; deductive techniques; induction and deduction contrasted.

That sounds like it would be great for LSAT stuff. :D

Doesn't sound too bad to me, but it may also be overkill and make you overanalyze stuff! The joy of being in the law is that you overanalyze everything to death that sometimes you miss the simple stuff.

Basic logic stuff is great for the LSAT. After your finals, while you're kickin' it over Christmas break, start in on some LSAT stuff. Logic games is the one section where practice really can help your score. Plus continually applying what you learned in logic class will help you retain it.

All right, stand back folks, here's advice from someone who went to USC and has a TON of friends in law school from there....

1-I'm a little pissed at you that you think you can get into law school if you don't get intro to logic.... HELLLOOOO... what do you think that law school/the LSAT is. I made a 105 in Intro to Logic. Yes, that's right folks, 105. I also scored perfect (like, none wrong) on my LSATs in the logic-game portion. Coincidence? I think not. Wake up. Pay attention. It's an easy class, but it's important for your LSAT's. Usually they'll tell you that the first day.

2-One of my good friends is currently at Columbia Law School. To give you a little hint, when he and I took our LSAT's, I scored in the top 50% and he scored in the top 97%. He got into Georgetown, USC (Carolina), Columbia, and was waitlisted at Harvard. Here is what I know about his resume:
-Social Fraternity (he dropped out, but I'm sure he still listed it)
-APO
-Dance Marathon Exec
-Student Senate
-Student Body Treasurer
-Honors College
-Philosophy Award
-Swanger Award
-Raquetball Club
-Who's Who
-Outstanding Senior
-Alpha Lambda Delta
-Omicron Delta Kappa
-I'm not sure his GPA, but my guess is 3.75 or higher
He also had the Director of Student Activities as a reference... of course, it wouldn't surprise me, knowing him, if he had the president as well.


Here is another friend of mine who got into USC:
-Social Fraternity (officer)
-Dance Marathon Morale
-Student Senate
-Honors College
-Sullivan Award
-Who's Who
-Outstanding Senior
-Alpha Lambda Delta
-Omicron Delta Kappa (president)

Another friend, USC:
-Social Fraternity (officer)
-Dance Marathon Exec
-Student Senate (I think, I'm not sure)
-Honors College
-who's Who
-Outstanding Senior
-Alpha Lambda Delta
-Omicron Delta Kappa

Here's one of the weaker resumes that I've seen get into USC:
-Service Sorority
-Student Senate
-Alpha Lambda Delta
-Omicron Delta Kappa (officer)
-Who's Who


You get my point. You need to do two of the big three: Dance Marathon Exec or Morale, Student Senate, or Carolina Productions. You also need to be prepared to answer the question, "What do you feel that you have contributed to the USC community" because that's what wins you Who's Who, Outstanding Senior, Swanger, and Sullivan. Your GPA needs to be a 3.5, although you could probably get by with a 3.25 with a killer essay and LSAT score. You need to be in Honors College. If you're not, get in. If you never want to be there, keep your GPA above a 3.5. Alpha Lambda Delta's a given. ODK is for junior year, but you'd best be using your best political skills to get in. Of course, all of this depends on what school you're planning on going to. Not that people don't get in without doing these things, but these are the people that I know that got in.

Let me know if you need any more help. Politics are huge at USC, so be aware of that ahead of time to make sure you get into these orgs. If you want more specifics, PM me. :)

On Break from Studying Family Law and Marital Property Rights
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kddani
[B]Doesn't sound too bad to me, but it may also be overkill and make you overanalyze stuff! The joy of being in the law is that you overanalyze everything to death that sometimes you miss the simple stuff.

This is definitely true of being in law school. I am in my last year at University of Houston Law Center. Being in law school definitely changes how you perceive life in general. Like Kddani says, you overanalyze everything. I have constantly been into arguments w/ my boyfriend over just the simple things.

Anywhoo...law school is a drag your first two years but after that hump it's pretty cool. You get used to rigors of school, the late nights, no sleep, constant stress (whether it be grades or trying to find a job), boring-ass classes w/ boring professors, the backstabbing section-mates, the tons of writing...and you roll with the punches.

Being a former Black Law Students Association Pres., who was very involved in admissions at my school, here is my advice:
1) If you can take a LSAT class (Princeton Review or Kaplan) take it
2) if you don't have the money to do it, get the books w/ CDs (and do the test online from the publishers' website)
3) order old LSAT books (if you do take the class and if you don't take the class)
4) Get a mentor--a lawyer, a law student, professor...someone!
5) WORK ON YOUR PERSONAL STATEMENT (Yes, your resume is important but trust me, you really need something else to distinguish yourself from the other hundreds of applications w/ similar GPAs and LSAT scores)

Any other questions, feel free to PM me.

Law school is do-able but you have to be committed and realistic.

I really think LSAT classes are a waste of money unless you score below 150 on your first diagnostic.

I agree but to each his own. I got into law school and didn't take a class. Some individuals might want the class as a security blanket.

I agree, though maybe I might bump up that 150 to a 155.

Though each person knows themself the best. I knew that if i went through a few books, i'd be fine. My scores on the first practice tests were high enough to get into most of the schools I wanted.

Kaplan (and other) classes are a HUGE time commitment. It may very well end up in your GPA dropping because you were too busy doing Kaplan stuff.

I would say 155 too, except that a lot of people think 155 is a good enough score for where they want to be, so that's okay. I think the classes help people who are bad test takers, but if you are a decent test taker and are willing to commit a few hours a week to studying, you'll be fine.

That's the category where I fell. I'm a good test-taker, and it worked out better for me (and cheaper) to study on my own. I committed a certain number of hours each week to studying, took a few practice tests, and ended up with a score good enough for the schools I want to attend.

Really, you have to know yourself and your study habits, and whether the cost of Kaplan or something like that would pay off come application time.

I'm interested in how law school stacks up to engineering.

I have about 10 hours left to grad. with a B.S. in engineering, I've taken the lsats, and right now I'm kind of waiting to see what the Army does with me before I apply.

I have friends that are in law school that say they've put in more effort in one semester than the put in an entire year in undergrad....but they were like international studies, poli. sci., and economics.

I really have nothing to go by other than how my some of my brothers are doing and what they say. Like I said though....just how far can you trust someone with an easy degree to comment on the workload in law school.

I'm a former Kaplan LSAT instructor and graduate of a top-3 law school. I've been advising law school applicants professionally for six years.

My primary advice to someone at this stage of the game is to be realistic about what you need to do. Both law school admissions and the legal profession are brutally hierarchical. Your GPA/LSAT and where you went to undergrad will largely determine where you can go to law school; your law grades and where you went to law school will largely determine what jobs you can get. So the first step is to figure out what kind of lawyer you want to be and where (small firm in South Carolina? Prosecutor in Richmond?), and then work backwards to figure out what credentials you need to get those jobs. Will your GPA and LSAT get you the necessary credentials for the job you want? Figure that out BEFORE you decide to go to law school.

Whether law school is easy or difficult, and whether it is fun or miserable, depend completely on who you are, where you go, and what you're trying to achieve there. I had a blast in law school, but I went to a school where you don't have to worry about grades. As a rule of thumb, the less competitive it is to get into the law school, the more competitive it is once you're there. Outside of the very top tier, your law grades will matter. A LOT. That doesn't usually make for a pleasant lifestyle.

Engineers are usually pretty successful in law school. I think because you're already trained to be detail oriented. The undergrad engineering majors I know that were in law school all did quite well. Their biggest problem was more when it came to writing style. They were great at thinking analytically, but needed work on their writing. Writing can be improved quite easily, though.

Also, with an engineering/science background, you're a prime candidate to take the patent bar, which can lead to a higher income $$$

This is from a earlier post I wrote on another thread...

Almost every law school (at least every one I've heard about)manages their admissions process by dividing the applicants in 3 groups. Every decent law school gets many more applications than they have spots.

The division is based on a math formula derived from your LSAT and GPA. Different schools might place a little more weight on one factor or the other, but both numbers will be very important. The number the school gets from that factor will decide which group you belong to:

1. Admit (high GPA, high LSAT, would be in top % of incoming class)
2. Needs further consideration
3. Deny (low GPA and LSAT)

Group 1 will be admitted automatically, unless there is some kind of extremely major problem with the applicant - like a series of felony arrests, getting caught in a serious cheating violation, etc.

Group 3 will be denied automatically, unless there's some (very very rare!) reason to excuse the deficiency.

Only if you're in Group 2 will anyone read your application, essays, recommendation letters, etc.

What you need to do is research the schools where you're applying - most will release info about the GPA and LSAT scores for their most recent 1L class - usually give you info like averages, and top 25%/middle 50%/bottom 25%. You should be able to predict where you fall.

If you're not in the top 25% of the school's class, you need to show the admissions people that you are prepared for law school, you have thought carefully and intelligently about your choice to attend (i.e., you care about the law, it's not about being rich and famous), and you are an interesting person who will add something to the class.

What others have said already is right - you need quality, not quantity on your resume. It will always look better to be an officer in one club, and maybe manage a big project than list 42 different organizations and then just "..., Member" afterwards.

Regarding recommendation letters, I managed to get one that was so wonderfully perfect, I didn't even realize it until later. I had worked for the alumni association as a part time job for just over a year - just a student assistant, minimum wage deal. My boss was one of the people in charge of alumni fundraising. She wrote a letter saying that I was a super-devoted Gator, and if I stayed at UF for law school, I would be extremely likely to donate $$$ to the university later. (Turns out she was right - I just headed up my graduating class gift project!)

I would definitely recommend getting a job on campus, with whatever alumni association type group you have. You make great connections too.

Hey Larry Carr Jr. don't go to law school! Law School is filled with a bunch of Danny Tanners.

YOu aren't a Danny Tanner are you Larry?

You heard of Kddanni and geekypenguin? Yeah man. When I think of them I think Danny Tanner!

OtterXO? Danny Tanner

ShaedyKD? Danny Tanner

You're more of a Jessie Codsopolus type of guy. Now go ride your harley and stay wild.

Law School. pffffft

who?

Danny Tanner would suck at law school.

Uncle Jesse with that hair would make it big as a criminal attorney.

ah c'mon man. you know.

"whatever happen to the good stability. the milkman, the paperboy...evenin TV!"

Everywhere you look , everywhere you go
(there's a heart)
There's a heart
A hand to hold onto

Man, Danny Tanner would be like a boring bankruptcy attorney or something. I don't want to be a boring lawyer. I wanna be like that chick on Law & Order who has to go in the witness protection program because the mob is out to get her. OK, maybe not, but something more interesting than bankruptcy.

Ha ha... So, now you've met BobbytheDon

Intellectual Property Law (that's what I was going to go into).

Come to think of it, I think I'm a pretty big nerd for thinking that's interesting...

Actually, I think IP law is interesting; I also think real estate, family, and health law are interesting as well. So I guess I'm an even bigger nerd.

I am considering naptime law and beer law.

I told one of the biggest republicans in my class yesterday I wanted to be a labor lawyer. I don't think we are friends anymore. :(

Haha, well you're still cool in this Republican's book.

It's good that in my current job I'm dealing with people in all parts of law. I had a long conversation with a top family lawyer last week, and it got me really interested. Of course, that could change depending on who I talk to next week.