Closing the Wealth Gap - What can we do?
 

Ladies (and Gents),
I was reading The Black Elite thread and thinking of how we can close the wealth gap between the low and middle-class AA population. I have heard that it is wider now than it has ever been.

Any ideas?

SC

There are so many factors that go into there being a gap in the first place, and I feel that if we are looking for a solution we need to fully understand the problem. So what is the problem? That although now more than ever the Black middle class is growing and thriving, we are still a people who are, in many cases, living in poverty. It's really hard to break it down. BUT in my heart I feel like middle and upper class African Americans have a responsibility to find a way to reach back and pull these other, less fortunate people up. Because lets face it, any one of us could be in the position that they are in and we are very BLESSED to not be there right now. It is great that organizations with the mission to serve exist, but I feel like they are not the only ones who should be doing work. Everyone who has SOMETHING should find a way to give back. Is it possible that we could all, as a people work together on this problem? I feel like we need to be a well oiled machine, with different parts serving a specific and important purpose with the ultimate goal of closing the gap between the upper and lower class, and then moving on to improve the lot of African Americans in this country. Personally I think that the two fronts that should be pursued most vigorously are Education and the Black Family. I think that to start improving on these two things will lead to positive results in other areas, including economics.

I agree with Lovehaiku84 on many fronts - its a very complex and multi-faceted issue.

I do know that education is key to rising up out of poverty, so therefore we need to remove this twisted idea that "going to school (education) is for white folks". We need to let kids know that the key to ending poverty is not with a basketball, but with a book (statistically speaking).

We need to let parents know that they need to be involved with the school and their kids education as much as they can - even if its phone call once a week to their child's counselor to see how they're doing (because I know some parents work one/two jobs).

Our churches need to become active again in our communities, showing Christ in action. If the local school is either too dangerous (larger cities) or if they feel that they just don't care about black students (smaller cities) then start your own neighborhood school - I've seen it done right here in my city. White people homeschool their kids all the time, so why can't we (via the church)?

In one of the poorer neightborhoods here, a lady noticed that black students were getting expelled from school at higher rates than whites. Once expelled, these students were just left to hang out at home or in the streets until the next school year, where they would be so behind in the coursework, they would more than likely repeat the grade. So she started a "homeschool" out of the basement of the church. It's about 10 years later and her "school" is so popular that parents WANT to send their kids there. This lady was no one rich or famous - just a retired teacher that saw a problem and did what she could.

The education issue is a universal problem - from the large urban ghettos all the way to the poor small towns. Somehow, we've got to instill in our kids that they can make it through school and even onto college or technical school. That type of life isn't just for certain people, but you too.

Hard question. A question to ask in conjunction with that would be is it possible to close the income gap? I don't know.

Capitalism seems to insist upon and push towards a permanent underclass. Capitalism coupled with racism ensures that that underclass will be composed primarily of people of color.

Anyone up for a revolution? Wait, can I say that?

Yes, the idea that education is a way out of poverty, is so true- children need to understand the importance of it, just today I was explaining to my second graders that there is not one job where the ability to read is not important, and how tests will be a huge factor in their lives from their academic to their professional career choices. No one wants to hire an incompetent person! Also, in addition to education a trade or a skill should be learned to keep one versatile or marketable. As my aunt would tell me when I was growing up learn how to do more than one thing! We also must be willing to become entrepreneurs rather than mere consumers in this society whereby we can create jobs and opportunities for ourselves.

very complex issue....
 

regardless socio/economic status, if you understand the importance of education or being educated on issues that may affect you, you do a great service to yourself and ultimately you family and community.

regardless of church or org. affiliation, we all must agree on the problem and be willing work collectively on the solution. we must also respect that people may have different ways of reaching the goal. undermining ourselves has been a detriment to our progress as a community.

personally, i slightly disagree with lovehaiku in that i dont feel that those of us in higher income brackets need to help the lower class. i refuse to help anyone if they are unwilling to educate themselves and do the necessary self-work. i am always willing to share what i know. but you can lead a horse to water but etc.

times are different. information is out there and we all need to make the effort to learn or be left behind.

Re: very complex issue....
 

Ok. I'm also against helping those who refuse to help themselves. I think the higher income brackets should help through service and being an example for those without. To me it's all about "teaching a man to fish" rather than just giving handouts. Hope I cleared that up.

Two words: delayed gratification.

As long as we are wearing it, riding in it, drinking it or eating it, we will not be wealthy. You can accumulate wealth without being highly educated. It just takes discipline and the ability to see beyond the immediate.

I do believe it is apart of my responsible as a citizen of this earth and a Child of God to make it better for someone else.

It is interesting that the approach posed in many of the replies seem to be primarily from a preaching down, I got mine, this is what they need to do to get theirs. I guess that I just don't think that my getting mine was all about the education that I received. Partly so but partly a result of people who helped me in various ways along the way. For instance, I have two degrees in EE but did not know what an Engineer was (besides a train engineer) until an AA man came to a program that I attended during highschool to tell us about his career as architectural engineer. Then wham, it was as easy as that, I decided to study engineerin in college instead of business. I thought business b/c that was what I had heard of and I was good in math. Did anyone of us really do it all by ourselves? Kudos if so.

In my opinion, technically there are three ways to close *any* gap, move one side down, move one side up or move both sides toward one another. My approach would be to move both sides toward one another by actively taking part in the lives of those who have less and allowing them to take part in our lives. I like programs like Big Brother, Big Sister but those programs require us to wait 10-15 years for the kid to grow up and (hopefully) graduate from college and get a decent paying job to begin to create wealth. I often feel like we just forget about the people who are already adults. I only know of the program that helps get moms off welfare and give them business suits, training, etc. Are there any programs for adult men?

On a previous tangent, why do we assume that those who are economically disadvantaged don't want anything better? Or that if they did, then it would be as easy as picking up a book? How many children are being passed from grade X to grade X + 1 by teachers and cannot even read? How many parents would like to help their children with math homework but they don't know how to do it themselves? I've seen this when I tutored in math. Shoot, I have two degrees in EE and sometimes the new way of doing math was a little lost on me. I had to take the kids back to the old way of doing math sometimes.

Why do discussions like these disintegrate into cliches like you can lead a horse to water? What does that have to do with closing the wealth gap? The implication is that the bulk of the economic underclass "refuses to drink." For those on Greekchat who are first-generation college graduates, does the you can lead a horse to water cliche apply to your family *before* you graduated? Those who were the upper class before you graduated and looked at your families from the outside would probably say so. Let us not forget so easily.

SC

RE: moving both sides towards each other which of the following do you mean:

a) move them towards each other physically, as in more intermingling amongst classes and physically interacting with each other

b) move them towards each other finanically, as in the "haves" need to give some up and the "have nots" receive some?

If you mean, financially- how does this help?

Even the richest AfAms are still WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY behind whites (the top 20 BE companies could be bought EASILY by the money that Exxon Mobil has CASH - that is not even considering their money that is not liquid). I really don't see how making the richer AfAms poorer, helps anything.

Our community NEEDS rich people, because in these days money matters. The best way for us to get ahead is to fund campaigns and play the big money game corporate America plays- we can't do that if our richest give all their money so the poor can be middle class. Now, rich AfAms need to support candidates who are favorable to ALL classes of AfAms not just the rich, but we can do alot more by playing the game of politics and capitalism than just making someone poor, not so poor.

Not sure if I was included in that number of people who came "from a preaching down, I got mine, this is what they need to do to get theirs." mentality, because that was certainly not my intention.

I do believe not delaying gratification is a big thing, but I do believe that part of my role is to help other. I teach a weekly GED class through the community center run by my church and I have 2 -3 consistent students. The class is free, I gave each student my home cell number and encourage them to call me, I break my neck to leave the job that keeps a roof over my head and food in my stomach to go there and do it for free and they won't do their homework, don't half come, etc. Yeah, it's frustrating, especially when I they want to talk about the lack of jobs or opportunities for them. I share stories about the Dave Thomas' of the world (founder of Wendy's), Bill Cosby another others who are successful despite never graduating from HS. These individuals got their GED and because very successful.

There are programs for adult men, as a matter of fact, one of the challenges with the homeless population right now is that many of the services (including education) are geared towards adult men, not women and certainly not women with children.

Re: Re: very complex issue....
 

we bare soooooo on the same page. regardless of status all of us she have that mentality.

Summerchild, I like a lot of what you had to say. When I said anyone up for a revolution, I was partially being facetious but I was also partially serious.

One of the ways that we can move towards each other is to stop thinking that a person's value lies in their accumulated wealth. In a capitalist society, you are what you own; but the value of people is so much more than that.

However, in a very real way more money means more access to a lot of things including education. I think that part of what we would have to do is work towards a more equal distribution of resources so that people whose don't have much personally still have access to the things that the very well off have.

For example, it terms of public school funding: each school receives a certain amount of funding per child from the federal government and that money is supplement by funding from property taxes. Of course, the schools in the more wealthy neighborhoods are more well-equipped. And, while I am a believer in education being what you make it, seeing that other children's education seems to be valued so much more than your own can be demoralizing. (This is in my home state, I don't know if this is the case everywhere else.)

So, to sum up: MORE EQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF RESOURCES, especially within the public service sector.

I meant the former although donating to a good cause or helping a family in need (or sponsoring a child for a good charter school) probably wouldn't bankrupt those of us who are on the wealthier side. But I meant the former.

SC

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with everything what is quoted, but I don't think that "donating to a good cause" is the same thing as a rich persong giving enough money to a poor person to make that particular person no longer poor. I think everyone should "donate to agood cause," but IMO asking someone to personally lift another person out of poverty by finanical donation of his or her own is extreme.

How do you account for the following:

1) The countries surpassing us in education every day spend FAR less per pupil than the avg. American public school district?
2) The District of Columbia which spend FAR more per pupil than any other school district in the nation, still has educational succes rates for sub par?
3) In TX we had the Robinhood Act that took money from "rich" school districts and gave it to the "poor" ones and after 10 years of the act the newly rich (due to Robinhood Act and spending about 2k more per student than the state average) still had failing test scores?
4) Urban school districts often are the "rich" school districts b/c public schools are supported by tax dollars and urban centers,like Houston, generate far more property tax dollars than our suburban neighbors like Cypress-Fairbanks- yet CyFair schools are better than HISD schools?

In all honesty these are facts, and if like the News and Politics forum you need me to show you a supporting link I can, but I will only do that if you ask:cool: . Call me lazy:) . I am a native Houstonian, now residing in DC so I grew up with this issue and now I face it everyday. I know that when I have children that althoug DC spends about 13k per student, about 6k more than what TX does, the schools are STILL horrible and my kids will likely go to private school (yet another *tax* of living in the District). If money is the issue- why does the DC situation still exist?

i will be the first to say i'm a big dummy when it comes to finances. i was having a conversation a few days ago when i learned raleigh, nc was one of the most expensive housing markets in the country. i think the state was #7 or 10. the average income was $42,000. in raleigh, many folk have nice homes, cars, etc. i can't understand how a couple of two with average incomes of $42,000 acquires so much. i make far more than $42 but still can't seem to get what others have.

if the gap is increasing what are others doing that AA need to do.

Eclipse touched on this earlier but financially, we need to learn to SAVE money, regardless if you have a little or a lot.

You know, I wouldn't worry so much about what other people do because there are also millions of Americans that are living BEYOND their means thanks to credit cards, lines of credit, etc. So although its sometimes tempting to "keep up with the Jones" it be better off to just go on your merry way.

You are so right. I save and save and save. But I still can't understand how others have what they have. During revival at my church, the guy preached "God's favor ain't fair." I'm starting to wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

^^Exquisite, I did say that education is what you make it, but I do think that it is demoralizing to see that others are seemingly valued more than you are.

The equal distribution of resource goes with a lot of what others have been saying including re-teaching these new generations the value of education and the value of delayed gratification.

I think that people in other nations value education more than we generally do. In a nation that values celebrity and money--any way that it is achieved, i.e. Paris Hilton--more than hardwork, folks are looking for the quick buck and not the years of education to achieve what they want.

I also think that 10 years may not be a long enough time for a historical devalued neighborhood and school system to reach parity with schools that have always had enough funding. Let see what happens over the next few decades. I am sure that those statistics are part and parcel of trying to revoke the "Robinhood act" and paint these schools beyond redemption. Have there been any improvements in that system?

Also, I think that to say that across the board, urban schools have more money is not accurate. I think that you would have to do a neighborhood by neighborhood analysis before you can make that statement. Where I am from the schools that really suffer the most from this disparity are not the schools that are downtown but the schools in the neighborhoods with the housing projects and depressed property values. A good deal of those are in the city--though not downtown--but not all of them are.

Finally, the school system is just one example of where that could be more equality in terms of the way that public funds and resources are employed. I think that regardless of the statistics that may suggest the opposite, this is one of the more important and impactful thing that we might do to dampen the blow from the ever widening wage gaps.

ok......
 

im not sure how you wrote the below post based upon the few posts that were put out there, but, you bring up a very good observation. many of us do have this "i got mine, now you need to get yours" mentality. that definitely is a big problem in every area that our community has a turbulence.

i feel VERY strong that education is key. i dont mean acedemic--going to college and getting degreed. education comes in different forms. my grandfather never went past the 6th grade, but his library was filled with books on Africa, slavery, race relations, and histories of influential black in this country and the world. he was always reading black newspapers and other widely known publications to stay informed on what was going on with his community and with black people in general.

i was always a lover of school and of learning. it has definitely helped to shape who i am. i also believe that we all make choices. we choose to purchase a vehicle when we know we dont have a job or from a predatory dealer because of what we think our credit looks like (without actually having pulled the report). we will purchase a new car and live in an apartment rather than buy used and save the money for a home. we choose to over extend outselves, we choose not to learn about various methods of savings and we choose to allow others to dictate our fate. good/bad they are choices. educating ourselves is one way to choose differently.

the fact is lower and middle class communities dont know the power they have. it wasnt until i took a course on philanthropy did i learn that it is not the wealthy with the economic power or the philanthropic power, its me and anyone else working class, middle, lower or whatever you want to call it--its the average joe.

blacks who continue to struggle need to educate themselves better. if you have a bank account, learn as much as you can about the various accounts, the fees etc. if you have a job with benefits, read about what your retirement plan offers you. there is too much access to information for our community to continue to perpetuate the old myths and behaviors of the past.

i do feel however, that if i invest my time sharing what i know with those i mentor, i cant hand hold. you cant force people to do what they are unable or willing to do. i can ask and help relieve the fear but at the end of the day if that person doesnt choose to live differently, im not sure aside from prayer there is anything i can do or at this point in my life, willing to do.

aside from pulling our folks up and being of service, there needs to be personal accountability by the communities directly affected by the widening economic gap. shared work and shared responsiblity i think is one viable solution.

If I only learned this lesson earlier in life.....:mad:

Overconsumption of products (including food) is a serious problem in our community. :(

Eclipse, you are right. However, I do believe that education is great, but when you over consume (from purchasing the latest fashion to paying that mortgage you can't afford) it almost reverses the benefit of an education. :mad:

Hmm, Chris Rock once said somethin like white people are wealthy, black people are rich. It was really funny when I heard it (actually, the whole stand up act was funny), but it was also true. There are more AA getting rich, but not more getting wealthy. Meaning the money is not staying in the family/community, money goes towards leisure & luxury before the family is on a track to guaranteed fortune...and even if they are/will be wealthy, we won't see it until like their grandkids' kids are adults.

There are more AAs making more money nowadays in science, entertainment, gov't, etc. every day as the doors slowly keep opening. However, we don't have enough people walkin thru these doors. The people who don't walk thru these doors breed people who are given mixed signals on whether or not they can make it (family, friends, neighborhood, entertainment). How do we reach these adults who are disheartened? I don't know myself, but you can't just leave them to infect the rest of the community. For example, whereas you could reach 30 kids, you only reached like 10 because the other 20's parents were hard-headed and/or unproductive to upliftin themselves & their families. So do you let these other 20 families wander blindly down a road of poverty and self-destruction? Don't we need to reach those who won't listen even more aggressively than those who will?


juss a thought...

i dont know..
 

i just feel that you continue to help as many as you can through example, sharing of information and just being willing to step out of your box. you can worry about reaching everybody. it simply wont happen.

I think that basically you have to reach everybody you can touch (basically your family and close, close friends, folks who trust you) with good financial, money management education information. Everything else, as others have said, is by working through organizations and helping people WHO ARE READY TO BE HELPED.

It's funny that I saw this thread...
 

My husband and I have made a resolution for us this year---wealth-building.

MY DH dragged me to a Primerica event just to see what it was about. Now, I had heard of Primerica but wasn't too impressed with its overall set up. With that being said, I went, asked lots of questions, and left convinced about a few things that they said.

1.) If you want to be rich, why do we listen to broke people.
2.) In order to increase wealth you must eradicate debt by having a financial plan.
3.) Rich people invest their monies long term by buying things like cd's ,stock, 401 k's, and term-life insurance but more importantly investments.
4.) They read mags like Forbes and Kiplinger's (sp?)...
5.) Home ownership is wealth-building.
6.) We go about getting wealthy the wrong way; for example, buying rental properties (sfh~single family homes) are good but commercial property is better. Doing 401k's etc, through your employment will yield only "standard" living. I could go on...
7.) The most important is learning how to tithe to yourself but more importantly GOD!!!

Overall, Primerica's precepts are good although I have reservations.....

Re: It's funny that I saw this thread...
 

Good points Soft&Beautiful,
An easy to read but intriguing book is "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" if you haven't already read it. It has really done wonders to change my mindset as well as those around me. It might be a great jumping off point for you and your hubby.

SC

Re: Re: It's funny that I saw this thread...
 

SC I actually saw a break down about all the financial gurus out there and what there programs offer along with the pros and cons of each....Overall, this book and Suze Orzman got high marks. Now I live by Suze, she gives GREAT advice!!

Re: Closing the Wealth Gap - What can we do?
 

Lovehaiku made some really excellent points off of which I would like to piggyback.

I think that the problem truly originates from "pipe dreams". Our youth don't know that there are other, more efficient ways of making money and building wealth. I truly believe they only see the entertainment industry (be it sports entertainment, video-ho entertainment, or music) as their method of money making.. and that's not true - especially when you compare the number of excellent ball players to the number of slots in the leagues they have available every year.

Now, I believe that it truly takes the wealthy Black community to come back and say through community service, "I drive the car you see in the music video, and I work at a law firm." or "I have a six bedroom home and I work at a bank." With opened eyes comes acknowledgement of options.

It's just especially hard as a mentor, to see a college freshman tell you honestly that they just thought "[insert major here]" sounded cool.. that they just wanted the refund checks.. or that they don't even know how or why they're there. You can't help but feel defeated before you even begin. Looking at that and at the attitudes of our high school level students, if we start THERE then we have made progress. *sigh*