GreekChat.com Forums

GreekChat.com Forums (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/index.php)
-   News & Politics (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?f=207)
-   -   The Alito Abortion Thread (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=71987)

Kevin 11-02-2005 10:54 AM

The Alito Abortion Thread
 
Quote:

The reason that this becomes the issue that determines whether a number of people support a particular Supreme Court judge is because it's the most controversial and emotional issue that this country has faced in the last few decades. There have been other crises and issues but they all went away eventually. This one hasn't. It's a highly charged issue and frankly, some women are scared to death that their rights will be taken away and they will be forced to get dangerous, illegal abortions that can threaten their lives if they decide they don't want to be a parent. That makes it a big deal to many women of child bearing age.
We're talking about spousal notification, not the breaking of the seventh seal. We're not even talking about spousal permission. Anyhow, it's been ruled on, and as far as the law is concerned, you're right and I'm wrong.

For the record, in cases where we're dealing with a fetus that is not viable outside the womb (through artificial life support or otherwise), I'm pro-choice. After that, however, I have to seriously question the morality of the procedure (in case you care where I stand on this issue).

Xylochick216 11-02-2005 11:37 AM

What about women who are being abused? Many women are sexually and physically abused by their partners/spouses. If a woman was to become pregnant by this man, should she have to tell him and face more physical/emotional abuse from the man? Definitely not. That's the problem with that legislation--it's very finite. I read somewhere (not remembering where, sorry) that if this ever became law and a woman needed to get an abortion in the instance stated above, it could take months in the courts, making the woman suffer through an unwanted pregnancy and become emotionally scarred herself as well as make the fetus too far developed for an abortion, thus making abortions practically non-existant. I think that's crappy. When men have a uterus and have to suffer through 9 months of pregnancy with an unwanted child, then maybe they can try to make laws about women's bodies. Until then, I wish people would stop judging people so horribly for getting them. I personally think abortion as birth control is pretty crappy, but when you have a president and other legislators who don't want to teach about birth control, then you have unwanted pregnancies.

(Sorry, I'm rambling, it's been a long morning).

jubilance1922 11-02-2005 02:01 PM

Re: The Alito Abortion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ktsnake
For the record, in cases where we're dealing with a fetus that is not viable outside the womb (through artificial life support or otherwise), I'm pro-choice.
I'd like to kiss you, because you just answered a question that I've been asking the pro-lifers for a long time.

irishpipes 11-02-2005 03:37 PM

Re: Re: The Alito Abortion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
the pro-lifers
I don't believe that there is a defined group of pro-lifers. I am sure if you asked questions of different people who consider themselves pro-life, you would get different answers. Just as there are varying degrees of pro-choice (those who would support early abortions but not partial-birth abortions, for example), there are also varying degrees of pro-life positions.

Exquisite5 11-02-2005 03:38 PM

Re: Re: The Alito Abortion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
I'd like to kiss you, because you just answered a question that I've been asking the pro-lifers for a long time.
I like the way you worded that as well. I think you adequately summed up my beliefs.

Rudey 01-12-2006 02:00 PM

Views and opinions can change in 20 years. I am confused by Durbin's comment.

Durbin (2006): "You have refused to refute that statement in the 1985 job application. I'm concerned. Many people will leave this hearing with a question, that maybe you will be the . . . deciding vote" in a decision to overturn Roe. http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/camp..._durbin_1.html

Durbin (1985): "I believe we should end abortion on demand, and at every opportunity I have translated this belief into votes in the House of Representatives. . . . Also, notwithstanding the result in Webster, I continue to believe the Supreme Court's decision in Roe v. Wade should be reversed." http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/camp..._durbin_1.html

http://www.nrlc.org/Judicial/Durbin/...ReverseRoe.pdf

-Rudey

jubilance1922 01-12-2006 02:46 PM

Re: Re: Re: The Alito Abortion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally posted by irishpipes
I don't believe that there is a defined group of pro-lifers. I am sure if you asked questions of different people who consider themselves pro-life, you would get different answers. Just as there are varying degrees of pro-choice (those who would support early abortions but not partial-birth abortions, for example), there are also varying degrees of pro-life positions.
I'm super late, but I just read this...

I don't feel there are "varying degrees of pro-choice". If someone is TRULY pro-choice, then they feel that a woman (and her health care provider and father of the child) should be making the decision whether or not to CHOOSE to have an abortion. Being pro-choice is not saying "I don't think abortion is murder". I know women who feel that abortion is murder and would never choose that outcome for themselves, but they recognize that what's best for them isn't the best decision for ALL women. That to me is the distinction between pro-choicers and pro-lifers. To me, pro-lifers feel like they have a right to exercise their personal opinions over my life, while pro-choicers realize that everyone should have the right to make their own decisions, just like we have a choice on where to live, what to wear, and what religion to believe in.

I'm ready for the flood gates of people to argue with me now.

hoosier 01-12-2006 03:14 PM

When Alito joins the court, the split will be 6-3 with conservatives in control.

If a suitable case reaches the court, Roe v Wade may be overturned.

This doesn't end abortions, and doesn't inflate the stock of Acme Coat Hangers Inc. or Back Alley Womens Med Clinic, LLC.

It sends the ability to make abortion laws back to the 50 states, and each can make the laws they choose.

Before Roe v Wade, some states allowed abortions, some didn't, and some did with restrictions. A controversy then was advertising for abortion clinics, and some local school boards, principals, college trustees, etc., threw fits trying to keep clinic ads out of school and college newspapers.

A prediction:

Bush voting states = we don't like abortions
Non Bush voting states = we love abortions
Alabama - death penalty for abortions
MA, MN, NY - get an abortion, collect $500

AlphaFrog 01-12-2006 03:21 PM

I have a question for you jubilance...

Do you recognize that there is a difference between an abortion at 2 months, or 8 months, or even partial-birth abortion (the baby is halfway born and they go in with a vaccumm and suck out the brains...well, at least that's one method), or is it all just abortion to you, regardless of the state of the baby?

Rudey 01-12-2006 03:50 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Alito Abortion Thread
 
Too bad that is just your opinion and not reality.

The reality is that much of the pro-choice movement does not want to allow for late-term abortions. It's not simply the ability to make any decision you want. The word "Choice" was just a PR move given that being pro-abortion just sounds so darned negative.

-Rudey


Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
I'm super late, but I just read this...

I don't feel there are "varying degrees of pro-choice". If someone is TRULY pro-choice, then they feel that a woman (and her health care provider and father of the child) should be making the decision whether or not to CHOOSE to have an abortion. Being pro-choice is not saying "I don't think abortion is murder". I know women who feel that abortion is murder and would never choose that outcome for themselves, but they recognize that what's best for them isn't the best decision for ALL women. That to me is the distinction between pro-choicers and pro-lifers. To me, pro-lifers feel like they have a right to exercise their personal opinions over my life, while pro-choicers realize that everyone should have the right to make their own decisions, just like we have a choice on where to live, what to wear, and what religion to believe in.

I'm ready for the flood gates of people to argue with me now.


jubilance1922 01-12-2006 05:10 PM

^^^

"Pro-abortion" doesn't seem negative to me. Oh well, I'm just a woman, so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

Rudey 01-12-2006 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
^^^

"Pro-abortion" doesn't seem negative to me. Oh well, I'm just a woman, so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

What does being a woman have to do with what you know and the discussion? Did someone say because you were a woman you didn't know what you were talking about? Are only women allowed to join the pro-life/pro-choice camps?

-Rudey

hoosier 01-12-2006 06:38 PM

Appalling as the spectacle may be, though, it is distinctively ineffective politically, not least because Kennedy himself is such a ludicrous figure. As blogger Dean Barnett notes:

In the public's eyes, it is now Ted Kennedy who purports to judge the character of Sam Alito. Ted Kennedy--the heavy drinking guy whose immorality actually has a body-count. Liberals could argue that Kennedy has put his life together and now is an admirable lion in winter, but the indisputable fact is that west of Cambridge, Ted Kennedy is a joke, someone who has been consistent fodder for late night talk show hosts for almost four decades. Obviously if this thing comes down to Kennedy versus Alito, the Kennedy side loses.

"Used with permission from OpinionJournal.com, a web site from Dow Jones & Company, Inc."

Tom Earp 01-12-2006 07:08 PM

Doesnt it depend on the timing and situation of the person!

Of course all of the Poloticitions are pure as the driven snow!:mad:

I really dont know if Alito is the supreme person to be placed on the supreme court, but who is?

:(

Alot depends on His interpretation of THE LAW as it reads and The Consitution as it also reads.

What I love is these do rigthous asshats who are prue who decide on Who who Be Who!

NinjaPoodle 01-12-2006 07:09 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Alito Abortion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
I'm super late, but I just read this...

I don't feel there are "varying degrees of pro-choice". If someone is TRULY pro-choice, then they feel that a woman (and her health care provider and father of the child) should be making the decision whether or not to CHOOSE to have an abortion. Being pro-choice is not saying "I don't think abortion is murder". I know women who feel that abortion is murder and would never choose that outcome for themselves, but they recognize that what's best for them isn't the best decision for ALL women. That to me is the distinction between pro-choicers and pro-lifers. To me, pro-lifers feel like they have a right to exercise their personal opinions over my life, while pro-choicers realize that everyone should have the right to make their own decisions, just like we have a choice on where to live, what to wear, and what religion to believe in.

I'm ready for the flood gates of people to argue with me now.


Agreed


Quote:

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I have a question for you jubilance...

Do you recognize that there is a difference between an abortion at 2 months, or 8 months, or even partial-birth abortion (the baby is halfway born and they go in with a vaccumm and suck out the brains...well, at least that's one method), or is it all just abortion to you, regardless of the state of the baby?

The fact of the matter is pro choice means, REGARDLESS of how you (or I ) feel, being in the position to choose either or, it's as simple as that. The degrees of abortion you mention are a sub-catagory of abortion.

AKA_Monet 01-12-2006 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hoosier
Bush voting states = we don't like abortions
Non Bush voting states = we love abortions
Alabama - death penalty for abortions
MA, MN, NY - get an abortion, collect $500

To add:

Get an abortion on demand in the 21st Century...

Priceless...



Sorry, it was just to easy to do that... ;) But, yah, gotta say, you walked into that one...

JenMarie 01-12-2006 10:08 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Alito Abortion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
Being pro-choice is not saying "I don't think abortion is murder". I know women who feel that abortion is murder and would never choose that outcome for themselves, but they recognize that what's best for them isn't the best decision for ALL women. That to me is the distinction between pro-choicers and pro-lifers.
Agreed. To say that I'm "pro-choice," whether "choice" was a PR stunt or not, implies that I believe there is a choice between 2 or more options.

I can just hope that the woman with child will keep the child. But I know that's not everyone's decision and belief. So it's between the mother, father, health care provider and their respective God(s).

Kevin 01-13-2006 11:54 AM

Jen, what do you mean when you say that the father should be part of the decision?

Rudey 01-13-2006 12:28 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Alito Abortion Thread
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JenMarie
Agreed. To say that I'm "pro-choice," whether "choice" was a PR stunt or not, implies that I believe there is a choice between 2 or more options.

I can just hope that the woman with child will keep the child. But I know that's not everyone's decision and belief. So it's between the mother, father, health care provider and their respective God(s).

So you believe on the last day, in the ninth month, right before the water breaks, if there are no health problems or rape issues, that an abortion should be allowed right?

Maybe you believe that a mother should just be allowed the choice of shooting herself in the stomach with a shotgun? I mean that is a choice, and you all love the semantics and use of that word so why not?

If that is a requirement of being pro-choice, it's funny to see how many places have abortion clinics but consider late-term abortions to be illegal, criminal, and repugnant.

-Rudey

Optimist Prime 01-16-2006 04:23 PM

I'm opposed to both spousal and parental notification laws, mostly on the basis of abuse.

texas*princess 01-16-2006 07:32 PM

Maybe this has already been addressed, but what IF a woman was raped and concieved a child in the process. Would she need permission from the rapist to get an abortion? What if he is never found? Or would that permission only apply if the woman was married?

I don't know the specifics on this proposal/issue so I'm just curious how something like this would play out.

Rudey 01-16-2006 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by texas*princess
Maybe this has already been addressed, but what IF a woman was raped and concieved a child in the process. Would she need permission from the rapist to get an abortion? What if he is never found? Or would that permission only apply if the woman was married?

I don't know the specifics on this proposal/issue so I'm just curious how something like this would play out.

Yeah good question. How come nobody asked this yet?

I'm not sure. I think she should ask the rapist for permission. Wait, I don't know. I can't decide.

-Rudey

KSigkid 01-17-2006 05:04 PM

Sandra Day O'Connor was a Goldwater Republican before she was chosen for the Supreme Court.

Just an example that people's attitudes and records can change over time...

hoosier 01-26-2006 03:58 PM

Byrd shocks the world

Alito has the votes of the 55 Republicans in the 100-member chamber enough to be put over the top when West Virginia's Byrd and Johnson of South Dakota joined Nebraska's Ben Nelson in saying they'll vote yes.

WCUgirl 02-23-2006 12:18 PM

DELETE.

Rudey 02-23-2006 12:59 PM

Mountains out of molehills.

There is a probability it will get overturned but there is also a probability for aliens eating your brains out. Even if it was overturned, there is a $5 OTC medicine you can take that gives you a quick and cheap abortion. And the best part is, it will be a state issue and not a national one, thus taking religion off the national stage.

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by AXiD670
South Dakota bill meant to challenge Roe v. Wade

South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill
Bill meant as a challenge to Roe v. Wade

Thursday, February 23, 2006; Posted: 1:25 a.m. EST (06:25 GMT)

PIERRE, South Dakota (AP) -- Legislation meant to prompt a national legal battle targeting Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion, was approved Wednesday by the South Dakota Senate, moving the bill a step closer to final passage.

The measure, which would ban nearly all abortions in the state, now returns to the House, which passed a different version earlier. The House must decide whether to accept changes made by the Senate, which passed its version 23-12.

"It is the time for the South Dakota Legislature to deal with this issue and protect the lives and rights of unborn children," said Democratic Sen. Julie Bartling, the bill's main sponsor.

The bill, carrying a penalty of up to five years in prison, would make it a felony for doctors or others to perform abortions.

Bartling and other supporters noted that the recent appointment of Justices John Roberts and Samuel Alito make the Supreme Court more likely to consider overturning Roe v. Wade.


jubilance1922 02-23-2006 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Mountains out of molehills.

There is a probability it will get overturned but there is also a probability for aliens eating your brains out. Even if it was overturned, there is a $5 OTC medicine you can take that gives you a quick and cheap abortion. And the best part is, it will be a state issue and not a national one, thus taking religion off the national stage.

-Rudey

What drug is that? RU-486 requires a prescription and Plan B doesn't induce an abortion. Is there some new drug out there?

jubilance1922 02-23-2006 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AXiD670
South Dakota bill meant to challenge Roe v. Wade

South Dakota Senate passes abortion ban bill
Bill meant as a challenge to Roe v. Wade

Thursday, February 23, 2006; Posted: 1:25 a.m. EST (06:25 GMT)

PIERRE, South Dakota (AP) -- Legislation meant to prompt a national legal battle targeting Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion, was approved Wednesday by the South Dakota Senate, moving the bill a step closer to final passage.

The measure, which would ban nearly all abortions in the state, now returns to the House, which passed a different version earlier. The House must decide whether to accept changes made by the Senate, which passed its version 23-12.

"It is the time for the South Dakota Legislature to deal with this issue and protect the lives and rights of unborn children," said Democratic Sen. Julie Bartling, the bill's main sponsor.

The bill, carrying a penalty of up to five years in prison, would make it a felony for doctors or others to perform abortions.

Bartling and other supporters noted that the recent appointment of Justices John Roberts and Samuel Alito make the Supreme Court more likely to consider overturning Roe v. Wade.

Since they are so committed to protecting the children in South Dakota, I hope that their legislature also allocates more funding for healthcare, education and family services. Since they want to help the children...:rolleyes:

Rudey 02-23-2006 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
What drug is that? RU-486 requires a prescription and Plan B doesn't induce an abortion. Is there some new drug out there?
It's not made for abortions, it just induces it. I can't remember the name off the top of my head but will post it when I do. It's something like $5 and there was a report about its high use by teenagers and how abortion laws really couldn't change the reality because of pills like this.

-Rudey

jubilance1922 02-23-2006 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
It's not made for abortions, it just induces it. I can't remember the name off the top of my head but will post it when I do. It's something like $5 and there was a report about its high use by teenagers and how abortion laws really couldn't change the reality because of pills like this.

-Rudey

When you get the name please post it. I'm intriguied.

Rudey 02-23-2006 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
When you get the name please post it. I'm intriguied.
Found it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misoprostol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-induced_abortion

-Rudey

jubilance1922 02-23-2006 03:16 PM

I had never heard of that drug.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.