Immigrants, Traditional Cultures and Greek Life
 

I'm especially interested in hearing from advisors and/or Greeks who have immigrant parents in this thread.

I advise a chapter here in the Pacific Northwest whose roster reads like a veritable United Nations. Because of this, from time to time we have new members who end up in family conflict because their parents believe the idea of sorority membership goes against their tradiational cultural beliefs. I've never personally had to deal with this as an advisor, so I'm asking here for some input.

Without going into too much detail (to protect the identity of the parties involved), if you're an advisor or a fraternity/sorority member who was in a similar situation, I'm interested to know how you handled it. What did you say to the parents to get them to reconsider? Did you ever have to give up on having a particular member in the chapter because parental opposition was so strong?

Thanks in advance - I'm kind of in a time crunch, so fast replies are greatly appreciated.

In the years I've been with my chapter I don't think we've ever had to deal with that kind of conflict, but I do recall my mom giving me a hard time when I showed interest in pledging.

My mom's an immigrant from the Philippines and AFAIK there were no sororities at her college then (The University of Santo Tomas). There were social clubs and honor societies, but that's about it. I was thankful that she had some kind of clue as to what a sorority was about, but I do realize that many children of immigrant parents are the first ones in their family to attend college, so not everyone is as lucky as I am.

Money was always the issue she had the biggest problem with. Not the time constraints...not the toll it might take on my studies...always the money. She couldn't understand why I had to pay so much in monthly dues to be "part of a club".

She came to a family event that semester, and once she got to meet my new sisters, and once she realized Alpha Gam wasn't just a local thing (she was impressed with how we are on a national/international level), she got some peace of mind and knew that I wasn't squandering my $$$ away.

sismadly, what kind of cultural traditions are they going against? Religious? Social?

Thanks, OTW.

The issues are religious and social, namely, the whole boys and booze thing. We had a Parents Tea yesterday and we were really hoping that this member would show up with her folks, but they didn't - they flat out refused to go. I don't want to encourage anyone to lie to their parents about the sorority and their involvement, and I don't feel comfortable with telling her parents a "lie of omission".

I'm from Russia and I moved here with my parents when I was seven and a half. When I first joined a sorority, my parents were REALLY against it, they were like "well ok if that's what you really want, but we think it's a bad idea." Eventually they did warm up to it when they realized how much I loved it. Even now though, my mom always tells me I'm spending too much time doing stuff for the sorority or whatnot. I think part of it is a cultural thing because my parents don't know anyone in sororities. Being from Communist Russia, the only groups like sisterhoods or whatnot that they are familiar with, were ones that were mandatory to join that dealt with communist issues. My parents were both members of such a group called the Pioneers (think Hitler Youth only without the Nazis, if that makes any sense) because they were forced into it, so I think that definitely had something to do with why they're anti greek life.

I've had this problem MANY times. I advise a very diverse chapter. They are all great girls. In the past, we have lost a couple due to religious differences. One girl last year just felt like she didn't fit in after she was initiated. Her religion banned her from drinking. She didn't go to parties and was never really social. Not to say you need to drink/party to be in a sorority, she just felt like an outsider which was odd because we have multiple girls who don't "party".

In the end, sometimes you just have to let them go. We currently have one girl whose parents are EXTREMELY strict. It has nothing to do with culture. She is a typical sorority girl, from a very non-religous family. She even had a curfew during recruitment. The poor girl was nearly in tears when she asked me if she could go home early because her dad wanted her home. Ultimately, their family should be the most important thing to them. If it isn't, they have thier priorites out of whack!

Maybe you could have a conversation with the parent directly to put thier mind at ease. If they need special passes to go home early from events, you should accomodate the member. The family is just trying to look out for the best interest of thier child.

If you want to chat directly about the situation you can pm me and I'll give you my phone number.

Emphasizing philanthropy did not work?

You can't lie and say everything they do is philanthropy...it just isn't true. Let's face it, college students will be around mixers and formals and if their culture is against it they have to find a way to deal with it.

I think the main thing to put across to the parents is that everything is VOLUNTARY and anything that makes them uncomfortable they will not be expected to do. You might also want to let them know that the ritual isn't some mystical cult ceremony or something.

Word. The parents know the deal. They know about parties, and that's the biggest issue with them. I could tell them about philanthropy and networking out the ying-yang, but I honestly think that since they're fixated on the boys/booze issue, they're not going to want to hear anything else.

The voluntary aspect is a good angle - thanks for the tip, 33girl.

My 2 cents
 

I was a first generation greek in my family, but my mom was very supportive. Although she was super supportive, she still found talking with our advisor at Memory Walk a valuable experience. Even though she had no problems with me being in a sorority, she still had some questions and maybe even some misconceptions about sorority life that the advisor was able to clear up, and my mom broadened her knowledge of sorority life.

If you can somehow talk to the girl's parents, invite them into a dialogue, perhaps they will have their questions and concerns addressed and they will feel better about her being in a sorority. Let them know that parents are an important aspect and that you can work with them.

Another question I have:

Would it be seen as arrogant for someone outside of the family culture to speak with the parents in a situation like this? In other words, what sorts of things should I be sensitive to in preparation for the meeting?

If you know where the family is from, it might be helpful to look up some cultural norms. I.E., is all information filtered through the father/patriarch, when is it/is it not appropriate to make eye contact and with whom, polite greetings (in some cultures, women shaking hands with men is a no no, etc.). Also, being sure you can correctly pronounce last and first names (be careful about using first names...also a cultural thing) shows care on your part. Also, take note of appropriate dress (typically, more conservative dress (pinwear is what I think you NPC girls deam it :) is a better choice).

As an advisor I've never had to deal with it. The chapter members and chapter officers always handled these type of things when I was a collegiate. It was rare in my chapter (same one that I advise) for a sister to have greek family members and having immigrant parents was extrememely common. Most of the girls whose parents were strongly against it simply didn't tell their parents that they pledged. Several of my sisters were seniors before the parents suspected. It's not a solution for everyone.

I do believe that a really great advisor can do wonders to relieve a parent's concerns. However, if there are any parents of current members that are supportive of the chapter; I would suggest having them speak to the concerned parents.

I agree with the posters who said to have someone from that culture speak with the parents. When I was in Angel Flight at the U of Hawaii, we had to deal with this a lot, particularly with the Samoans. The dads would even grill the other members when we called their daughters:"Why do you want to talk to my daughter? It's already 8 PM, can you wait until tomorrow?" However, there wasn't anybody more experienced in American culture who could talk to them.

Now I deal with it with Hispanic girls in Scouting. It's much, much easier to have another fairly recent immigrant talk to them about the importance of showing up for certain events even if the daughter's seventh cousin twice removed *is* having a birthday party....otherwise they'll tell the leaders that certainly their daughter will be at bridging and then not show up, time after time.

These are all great suggestions everyone - thank you so much. I'll keep you posted on any developments.

KLPDaisy my parents were also pioneers as was my older sister but in Yugoslavia they are NOT I repeat NOTHING like Hitler youth! Rather they were like Girl or Boy scouts with summer camps and Pioneer Olympics and volunteering all over the country to help rebuild it after the devastation of WWII.

That said, coming from a multicultural sorority we run into a lot of problems. There are parents who still believe their daughters are in a cult, others who think all the sisters are lesbians trying to 'convert' their daughters to homosexuality, things of that sort. Obviously none are true but the only person who can understand the experience of being Greek is he/she who is Greek him/herself. In the end, parents always see how dedicated we are to promoting academics, service and leadership while having close sisterly bonds all experienced through multiculturalism. In fact, for Parents' Weekend a couple of weeks ago, we had a dinner at a Japanese restaurant all together to get to know each other and had a wonderful time.

Excellent suggestion! Honesty is the best policy at all times, when it comes to dealing with the parents.

We're not ethnically diverse in the sense of vastly different cultures, for the most part, but we did have religious problems when I was Chapter Advisor. In fact, with the hopes that no one will ask any precise questions, I'll say that we camethisclose to having someone walk out during initiation! Once we made it clear what her obligations were and weren't (yet again!), she was fine.

BTW, our EO has a letter which is to be sent out to each parent at the time of becoming a New Member. It goes a LONG way towards helping iron out any potential problems!

Aside from the Nazi aspect of that, Hitler Youth was kind of similar in the sense that it had lots of programs, and was mandatory for everyone. I know this wasn't a terrific example, but it's the best one I could come up with because it's an organization that a lot of people are familiar with.

Just don't use that example with any Russians=) I'm sure they would be very upset if you compared the pioneers with a league of Nazi's, especially after all the devastation that occurred there on Hitler's part. I know I personally was very offended by that comment, but I realize it's hard to comprehend the organization since you left at such an early age.

I've tried explaining the philanthropy aspects of sororities to my folks but a lot of times their response is to dedicate my community service hours to my grades. East European parents lol.

I think that in the long run they've realized that being in the sorority has done me a world of good, having become more open and less shy as well as improving my public speaking skills VASTLY and becoming very professional.

Private I, my family is Jewish and the only reason we left the Old Country was because of antisemitism. I don't know if you're Jewish or not, but that would explain why my parents didn't have the best experience with the Pioneers.

Two years ago, one of our new members ended up depledging out of pressure from her parents, who are from India.

At the time, my chapter had several Indian girls who attempted to talk her parents around, but they weren't having it.

Question: Do the girls with parents who have "issues" with them going Greek live on campus? Dorms may not necessarily have sanctioned parties, but anyone who has lived in residence will know that people will be invited to them. There will be exposure to members of the opposite sex too, regardless of how strict an all girls' dorm is, because, well....the boys go to school with you,...they sit in your classes...

No, she lives with her parents.

Luckily, the issue seems to have resolved itself (I'm still waiting on details) and it looks like the member in question will be able to initiate with the rest of the new member class. :)

Thanks again to everyone who provided insight and feedback. Sometimes I love GC.

cannot comprehend...
 

This thread makes little sense to me. In 1955 in the TKE house
at Emporia, 45 men lived in it, and we had a pay phone in the study. Every Saturday calls were made east by members who
spoke Italian, Polish, German, Flemish, Danish, Swedish, and
lordy who knows what else.
Me, seven times a Mayflower descendant, I thought nothing of it.
We were, I guess, diverse...out here in Kansas!
Forsooth! This is boring, and from the days of Asayo Fukuda of
Alpha...where have you all been all these years?

Re: cannot comprehend...
 

Erik, I guess it's because parents are probably a little more protective of their daughters. Don't want those wild fraternity men corrupting them, you know...

protective
 

then those parents should not send their kids to college in
America. I was deflowered by a Chi O...not really...but there
are those nasty girls who were hot for my supple body and
my folks did not pull me out of school. In fact, my parents did
not put me in school....I did. My parents were college educated
and some of my grandparents and great grandparents were,
too.
But I still liked the back seat of the old Chev and I never told my
parents of my escapades; felt it was not 'cultural.'
Yessirree, I was a helleva catch.
I was a heterosexual kid from central Kansas, I guess...those
were mighty big words back then.
Can't remember any one being raped or given a mickey or any
of those awful things of today...well, there was this one S A E,
or maybe it was a Sig Ep, he pounced on the homecoming queen,
but being the balanced gentleman he married her.
Forsooth!

I am glad to hear that everything is resolved and that she is going to be able to join her class for initiation!

Re: protective
 

a lot of them are sending their kids to college in america because they as a family have much better opportunity. but they still hold true to their original customs. fact of the matter is that our society generally is a lot looser than some cultures. and also remember that a lot of families have been here for generations and still hold true to the values of the old country.

fact of the matter is that america is a truely multicultural society and we cannot eliminate people from our organizations simply because they lead a different home style. as women...our sororities should be open arms to ANY women who wishes to join our sisterhoods...and we should be willing to learn from them just as they learn from us. statements like this one...that are shallow and do not express the true meaning of sisterhood or brotherhood are the reason that people believe greeks as a whole are shallow and why familes who are immigrants or follow old country beliefs do NOT want their daughters becoming members of our organizations.

Good! Because i really like her! Glad things were resolved! :D

Re: protective
 

Um, except I'm not in America, and neither is this chapter. Thanks for playing, though.

Re: protective
 

And thank you for my morning TMI.

:)

If they want it bad enough, they should be able to communicate it to their parents.

-Rudey

Basically the reasons that there are more Non Americans coming to America to go to school is:

1. The Education is better.

2. Education is cheaper.

3. Some cannot get into schools from their own Country for many reasons.

4. They can afford it because of Out Sourcing.

5. The Familys dont want their Children to become indoctrinated into the American ways.

I have to once again agree with Erik, I was from Mo. and now live in Ks. I paid my own way to college, I had no choice. I was the first one in My Total Family not only to go to College, Graduate, and Be a Member of a Greek Organization.

They Live Here, then learn the ways of This Country or go back to where it is more persecuted for certain Religions and Genders!

Well, I guess that is a Moot point. Go to any Gas Station, Convience Store, or Motel and see how good the American language is?

I think most if not All GLOs are more amiable to working with people at Their Level than most. (Hopefuly)!

How about none of the above. There is good education in other countries other than America..maybe if you travelled outside of Kansas, you'd see that.

:rolleyes:

AMEN!

Obviously, there is Greek life outside of the US, but it is not as important to the collegiate in most countries. For example, there is an engineering school in India, IIT that by far outshine anything we have here including MIT. Those students compete hard to get in and once they do, it's all about the business. A lot of the college students here may have come from families where the parents went to these schools. They believe college is about getting an education, not joining social groups, especially with us "unserious" American students.

Think about the fact that women are considered second class citizens in many countries and are not allowed to go to universities. The parents move here to give their daughters a chance to succeed. Or the fact that in general in society...including the oh so great American society...women are also much more under the parent's lock and key than the men in the families. That double standard means that while the sons may be allowed to date and party, the daughters are supposed to stay pure and innocent. I know this is hard, but you have to look outside of your personal experience and realize that you cannot compare the experiences of midwestern men to foreign women.

And about learning our ways...what are our ways? I'm sure my beliefs that I grew up with are much different than many other people on this board. Not better or worse, just different. We are not a country of one culture, one religion or one belief..so what way are they supposed to adapt to? Learn from everyone around you and don't expect them to be like you. Then we ALL can be a little more enlightened.

I am not disputing that! But.

I have been out side of Kansas You Twits.

I lived In Missouri Also.

I have been a few places in This My Country from Coast to Coast and Border to Boarder.

Oh, I have been to a few Countrys Not Of The USA!

Mexico, Austria, England, Wales, Scotland, Germany, Italy, and Hungary.

rocketgirl, and what Greek Life are You refering to?:eek: What Country are You Form?

So There are Many Great Schools In Other Countrys no denying that, but, just how damn many can get into them?

So, what do they do? They come to the USA! It is Cheaper, Right?

I just wonder, is there still a Caste System in some Countrys?

Who said MIT is The Best?:)

It is one of the fine Schools across The US, not the only one!!:cool:

Actually,

The IIT programs (by the way engineering schools are a small segment of the high ed system) are at several campuses so it's not just one school. I believe only 2 of them are even held highly. On top of that, they are run like businesses and not schools and often target sending their graduates to companies outside the US (increasing the brain drain in a developing country). They emphasize a type of linear thinking that Asian and Indian schools are known for - a thinking that is very limited and is slowly starting to change in countries like China. Those schools definitely do not outshine the US schools - particularly MIT and CalTech.

I'm sure Indians and those who spent their entire youth studying for the one exam to get them into those schools would love to argue their IIT diploma means more. Some alums are successful but that doesn't compare to grads of US schools - the same grads that recruit them. Some alums are just too burnt out to care.

-Rudey

Rudey, Q? Where did The IIT Schools come from? And Why?

Oh, Good Post!:)

I think each school has its own history of creation. In general, they were created by western countries and India. It is still supported by the Indian government and gets aid from the West.

-Rudey

Hi-jack!

"I'm going to go step on a squirrel just because you said that, then make a hat out of it." - kddani


As a squirrel lover I object to this quote!

end hi-jack


I think that sororities are open to other cultures and we want anyone to join. The problem is convencing parents that we are not all drug/drink/sex pots. Yes there are some chapters and some sisters that lead lives that not all of us would agree to... that is why we have more than one glo out there. The question is... how do we meet the needs of other cultures without giving over to the culture? I would just hope that parents would be open to meeting with sisters in the sorority and listening to what they had to say about their activities in the chapter. How they don't drink when they go to a party? Or how they don't dance... if dancing were against the beliefs of the culture (my grandparents would have had issues with my mother joining a sorority because they are strict Southern Baptist who don't believe in dancing, drinking alcohol, and playing cards/gambling.)

That brings up another point... cultural issues are in America also. We have ladies that are from cultural backgrounds of all types. I will admit that I had a picture of the young lady being from an Eastern cultural, but she could just as well be a 7th generation Mayflower American, where the family is Morman, Baptist, Jewish, or any other cultural/reglious group that hold to strict rules/pathways.

My questions would be these... if I joined a group and was not of the same cultural background (race/religous) how would a group accommodate me? Those who have joined groups that aren't the perfect cultural fit, how have you managed to handle the differences?

ETA: Please ignore spelling... coffee hasn't hit yet and spelling is a challenge with it....

Congratulations on you travelling, Tom. Really!