If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a vegetarian?
 

I would. I would not take any chances.

Never. Because then the birds win ;)

Can you catch the avian flu that way? I thought people contracted it from contact with living, infected birds who then spread it to other people.

Maybe AKA Monet can shed some light on this. :)

Why vegetarian? Why not just eat the other white meat, pork, & red meat?

Just wondering.


-Mark

If that were true: that the spread of the avian flu was only linked to human proximity to living fowl... then the market demand for the meat would still mean that there is a risk - a risk heightened by the large populations of fowl raised solely for their meat.

However, biologically speaking viruses do remain active for a time (highly variable depending on strain) even after the death of the carrier - but I'll let a specialist delve into the specifics of that...

Re: If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a vegetarian?
 

If being a 'vegetarian' really means 'avoiding close proximity to those infected, whether avian or human, or their refuse/excretions/etc' then yes.

I'm pretty sure that chicken salad will not be the primary avenue of infection for most people.

Good point... in that during the BSE scares a couple of years back how many people switched to vegetarianism because of fear?

I don't know anything about bird flu, but I'm already a vegetarian.

Burn any type of Food, Beef, Pork or Fowl like I do.

Din din is ready, smoke detector is going off! That should take care of all virus. Keeping Chickens or any Birds as Pets can be bad! So are Keeping Misquiteos!

For Veggie eaters, where do they get the shit that goes on to help it grow, Oh, Fertilizar? Brain Fart! :p

Nope. I mean, if there were some sort of outbreak in the US and people suddenly started getting sick from eating chicken or something then I'd probably be wary of eating chicken, but that doesn't mean I'd give up eating any meat whatsoever. Same goes for mad cow disease: if there were an outbreak then I'd probably avoid eating hamburgers/beef, but that would give me no reason not to eat chicken or other meats.

No. We don't eat much chicken as it is, and I know exactly where all the beef we eat comes from and how it's processed.

From a biological perspective, I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't get bird flu just from eating an infected animal... or at least not from the eating the commercially available parts (breast, wing, thigh, leg) that Americans tend to prefer. Things might get a little dicey if you decided to eat the bird's internal organs. I would assume that it's kinda like mad cow disease - even if contaminated beef does get into the U.S., we don't tend to eat the parts of the cow (brain, etc...) where the nasty lil' prion lives.

I don't eat red meat so all that's left is chicken and fish, but I don't think I'd avoid chicken just because of the bird flu...you can't catch it from eating it, can you? On the other hand, if it was transmissible that way, then...maybe.

World: WHO Official Talks About Transmission, Treatment Of Avian Flu
By Golnaz Esfandiari
RFE/RL: How is it transmitted to humans?

Cheng: We don't know exactly how it is transmitted to humans. It is still a very rare occurrence when the strain infects humans, but we believe that it's somehow airborne and that humans will get this disease if they come into very close contact with diseased birds. So if they are handling chickens who have died of H5N1, [if] they're preparing it for food maybe, if they inhale some of the dust in which these chickens have been, then it's possible that they could acquire this disease. But we don't know exactly how.

RFE/RL: Can you catch it by eating chicken or eggs?

Cheng: No, we haven't had any cases that have been linked to consumption of food. Well-cooked chicken and eggs are not a risk factor for contracting H5N1. But the reason that we talk about it is that in these parts of rural Asia, the people who are eating the chicken are also involved in its preparation -- so they are de-feathering the chicken and slaughtering the chicken -- and that can be a risk factor for contracting H5N1.

RFE/RL: The current outbreak is caused by a strain known as H5N1, which can be transmitted to humans. Could you explain why this strain is of particular concern?

Cheng: We've seen that this strain is capable of infecting humans from time to time. It has jumped the species barrier. And also since 2004 we've seen it become essentially established in the Asian poultry populations. So we know that this is a strain that is quite hardy. It can survive in the environment, and it has the capability to infect humans. So that it essentially is meeting two other conditions that we need for a pandemic. This is a new subtype of influenza that has never circulated before in humans, and we know it's capable of causing human infection. So what we're worried about is that if this strain somehow changes to acquire the ability to be transmitted among humans. And if that happens, it's possible that we could have a pandemic.


So, that answers most of the questions.

Note though, that with Mad Cow disease, it can take 10 years to show up after exposure. Therefore, if you don't stop until there's an outbreak of it, it very well could be too late. That said, I'm still eating it. Maybe like the folks who don't evacuate for hurricanes, or those who are hazing severely, we don't tend to take things too seriously until it's too late and someone gets ill/hurt or dies?

Thanks AGDee, I was just about to look up info to post. In one of my courses, we were just discussing how misinformation should be more of a concern in the public health/envrionmental health field.

No.

No. But I would definately eliminate the eating of Canadians.

We wouldnt have the potential for the Bird Flu if the Chinese wouldnt live on damn top of their chickens. The flu's always start in SE Asia where the people sleep with pigs and goats in their huts.

Here's a thought... Maybe if we worked to improve the living standards of the people in that region, the likely sperad of 'Bizarre Pig Flu G3978' will be decreased or eliminated.

Just this guys thoughts.

Canadians are a healthier food tho. Taste great slow cooked. I find the meat to have less marbeling than Americans.

No. As messed up as my immune system is, I'll probably be one of the first to die anyhow. :(

Your post made me sad. :( Do you get flu shots? I'm thinking about getting one this year because of the avian flu. I need to talk to my eye doctor in case it might cause a problem with my cornea infection.

I realized that I should have posted the link (I meant to, but I think the phone rang).

radio free europe .. Avian flu interview

PNC: This article notes that there is no vaccine for the avian flu and the flu shot will not guard against that strain of flu.

ETA: The media is really creating a panic over something that can't yet be spread from human to human.

I do get flu shots - but for some unknown reason, I can't seem to keep my immune system up to par. I've even been tested for HIV a couple times - nothing seems to fit the pattern. Last year, I got 1/2 the flu shot early in the year, and the other 1/2 about 3 months later - still no major improvement. Unfortunately, the doctor I've had since I was little has retired, as at least I felt that he knew what he was talking about.

DEFINITELY ask your doctor, since you had/have that cornea infection!! My problems all started when I got a severe lung infection, took an antibiotic, and ended up taking 10 courses of antibiotics within 8 months. Bad, bad move! I'm now reading up on holistic medications.

You cannot get it from eating the meat - however, this carries the "as long as it was properly cooked" caveat for the time being.

The avenues for infection right now all require exposure to infected animals, especially animal feces or during butchering.

Once the virus changes to a form easily passed between humans (note this is 'when' not 'if'), it will be passed much as 'regular' flu strains.

What's up w/ all the flus going around? Isn't there a dog flu supposedly spreading like crazy?

Bird Flu struck Vancouver (well Abottsford) last spring. No one one died, except a few chickens that were killed to prevent the spread of bird flu. No human contacted it, and as far as I know Vancouver's vegeterian population didn't increase.

Ditto. It would be hard to give it Canadians, but I would do it... to protect myself from bird flu.

Re: If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a vegetarian?
 

Well, no matter what happens, if any of you become a "vegetarian", please don't go around saying "I'm a vegetarian, I only eat chicken and fish". Last time I checked, those were animals too.

Re: Re: If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a vegetarian?
 

There are pescovegetarians who do eat fish, but I've never heard of any vegetarians eating chicken.

What's the difference between the bird flu and regular flu, by the way?

Re: Re: If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a vegetari
 

OMG I LOVE YOU. No really. I do.

I think calling yourself a vegetarian if you eat fish is lame. Calling yourself a vegetarian if you eat chicken is just wrong.

Re: Re: If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a vegetarian?
 

Can you be a vegetarian if you eat fois gras and veal?

-Rudey

Re: Re: If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a vegetarian?
 

There are certain health magazines (ie, Prevention) who refer to anyone who eats a majority of vegetables and no red meat as "the new vegetarians".

I agree, that's pretty lame. You either eat meat or you don't. It makes me think of people I know who keep kosher at home, and then gorge themselves on shrimp & lobster when at a restaurant.

Re: Re: Re: If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a vege
 

What annoys me about this sort of thing is that when you have all these people running around calling themselves vegetarians even though they eat animal products like fish and/or chicken or who only refrain from eating red meat, it results in others thinking that vegetarians eat fish/chicken/whatever. Then you'll end up at some dinner where someone says "Oh yeah I ordered chicken for the vegetarians." Bah.

I went to a luncheon where one of the women had ordered a vegetarian meal, and was served chicken. She burst into tears!

I'll bet that hotel never makes that mistake again!

I'm not a vegetarian, but when I was working Advance, I learned quickly to order a vegetarian meal at least once for every two meals, only because the mass-produced meals are usually so loaded with calories/gravy. blech.

Re: Re: Re: If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a vegetari
 

It IS technically a form of vegetarianism, though. Eating just chicken and fish is called "semi-vegetarianism."

But I think that if you eat chicken and fish, you need to say "I'm a semi-vegetarian" . . . not "I'm a vegetarian."

And yeah, I feel your pain on the whole non-vegetarians-ordering-chicken-for-the-vegetarians issue.

Re: Re: Re: Re: If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a
 

Exactly. Say semi. Just don't say vegetarian, or be prepared to feel the wrath.

I guess what I don't understand is why someone who eats fish and chicken would even want to label herself a vegetarian. It's not like being a vegetarian entitles you to admission into some exclusive, secret club or anything, so what's the point? Say "I don't eat red meat" or whatever, but don't claim vegetarianism.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a
 

Maybe they think it's sexy or fashionable?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a
 

That's just what I say, because I'm sure if I said, "Oh, I'm a semi-vegetarian" that would just open the door for a lot of questions about just what exactly I do and don't eat. As it happens, really the only meat I just don't like to eat is red meat, so I just say that. Clear and to the point. I wouldn't call myself a vegetarian at all, because that's just not the case.

I've never gotten it, but I'mma get it this yr.

For the immune system - once antibiotics for strep throat and then bad reactions to the antibiotics caused a vicious cycle that tore mine up.
My Dr. recommended Echinacea & that helped alot.

semi-vegitarians
 

Aunt Voula: What do you mean he don't eat no meat?
[the entire room stops, in shock]
Aunt Voula: Oh, that's okay. I make lamb.

HIPPOCRATES!:p

Well, eat vegies and where does the shit come from that fertilizes it or them! DA!:rolleyes:

If I get a pang for leafy Rabbit Food, got to Have Chunky Blu Cheese on it;)

Eat Carrots makes You see Better.

Eat an Apple a day to keep the Dr. away!

As Crockadile Dundee once said "Snake is not bad but always gives Me Gas!":D

Re: Re: Re: Re: If the Bird Flu struck the US and Canada, would you consider being a vegetari
 

Agreed! I have been a vegetarian for what... 13 years maybe? Long time. Anyways, I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian meaning that I eat dairy & eggs. But no chicken!

I too have had the chicken-vegetarian problems. I can forgive my husband's 80 year old grandmother (who is 100% Italian BTW) -- she did make potatoes & vegetables for me... never mind they were cooked with the chicken... but I don't expect someone of that age to understand that I don't eat meat... or things COOKED in meat!

At convention, the vegetarian meal one night was salmon... and the dressing (without telling us) was bacon peppercorn or something like that (def bacon) -- thankfully I smelled the bacon in it & ordered oil & vinegar instead.

I have to be VERY careful with labels too -- my son is also a vegetarian, so I check for chicken fat (thrown in a lot of veggies - including Del Monte's Southwestern Rice & veggies in the can) and gelatin (in a lot of fruit snacks & dips) in everything.

Being in the south, its hilarious to see the look on people's faces if you are at a restaurant & ask "Do the turnip greens/blackeyed peas/etc. have meat in them?" -- they first say "no" but then if I say "no fat back?" they'll say - "well of course they do!" I guess I should just start specifying that if there is any animal contents mixed with my food, I don't want it ;)