Just would like to know you opinion
 

And I know we love to give em in this community :)

My best friend was elected IFC president...the only odd thing here is, it's a woman. On our campus, Alpha Phi Omega is considered a greek organization just like any other, so that is how she ended up heading the group.

What I want to know is, How would you (esp you guys out there) feel if a woman became the head of the fraternitys on your campus?

FYI: My friend did deal with alot of different crap from both the fraterinities and sororities on campus, but has done a great job despite it all.

Not uncommon. Two DPhiEs are/were the President of Panhel and the President of IFC at Queens College in NY. It is accepted and good leadership is always appreciated. Queens College is the alma mater of Jerry Seinfeld.

Denise

Re: Just would like to know you opinion
 

NO NO NO NO NO!!!

Alpha Phi Omega should NOT be on IFC - they can maybe get away with being on an all-Greek council, but that's about it. And looking at your college - it's not like you only have 2.5 Greek groups or something.

The issue is not her gender, the issue is the fact that she's in APO.

Re: Re: Just would like to know you opinion
 

Not to be harsh either, but what 33girl said is true.

APO is not a Member of either Council and therefore has no right to be leading IFC or NPC Organizations.

Not saying they would not do a good job, it is toatll out of character and boundrys.

Even if there was some way for this to happen...at Nebraska, it would not be appreciated.

I don't know that at all campuses IFC and Panhel have the same sort of mildly antagonistic relationship that they do at Nebraska, but with that in place, the female president would have no real power.

I don't want anyone to think that the IFC and Panhel are actively fighting or that the exec officers don't get along, because they do get along really well (they all hang out together enough in Greek Affairs that they had well better). What I mean, is that on a number of issues there are ways in which Panhell believes they should be handled and ways in which IFC thinks the issues should be resolved. This may be more of conflict between member reps of the councils and not so much the execs. But, there is no way that a woman fully understands the perspective of the fraternities that she would be required to represent, even if she is in a co-ed organization.

But as 33girl has said, there is the far bigger issue of the "non-social" GLO's and their status as real greeks. This is one symptom of that issue.

Betarulz, I think You hit the nail on the head=Social GLOs!

There is a big difference between Social and Service Organizations.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo! :o

I think it's fine. She obviously either got appointed or elected by her peers, so they must have faith in her ability to govern them.

Many schools require all Greeks to be on SOME sort of council, and if there is no all-Greek council then I don't see the problem of a co-ed group ending up being governed by either IFC or Panhel, unles, of course, their bylaws prohibit this.

That said, I hope that she has a respect for and understanding of the differences between her GLO and the social fraternities, or things could get ugly in a hurry.

No it's NOT fine.

It's against national APO bylaws and this chapter (which is relatively new) needs to be corrected ASAP.

And if the school is requiring this they need to be corrected as well.

Re: Re: Just would like to know you opinion
 

I see where you are coming from and yes, at a majority of schools APhiO is considered a club more than a greek organization. However, there are quite a few schools where it is more of a social fraternity than a service one (not that I agree with that, but moving on) which is why they are apart of the council. Our APhiO chapter has mixers and formals along with the community service that we provide. I believe it has to be school specific as to how everything is recongized.

It doesn't matter what they are "considered" or how they operate on campus. It is against national bylaws.

You HAVE an intergreek council on your campus, they can be on that, but that's it, and even that is pushing it. APO should no more be on IFC than they should be on Panhel.

And formals are one thing, but mixers with who? Sororities or fraternities? I would think someone would end up on the short end of that stick.

Regardless of whether they are a GLO or a service, wouldn't the IFC have to vote on whether to allow them under the governance of the IFC to begin with? From my experience, even when organizations are voted into the IFC, there are usually standards to allowing them in (ie: NIC org, MEN, etc).

It's like allowing Alphi Phi Fraternity to be under the IFC just because the term "fraternity" is in their name.

I only asked for opinions and did so to gain knowledge of how different schools work in relation to greek life, Why do you choose to be nasty about it?

EDIT:

POLICY ON ASSOCIATION MEMBERSHIP: Chapters of Alpha Phi Omega shall neither seek nor accept Membership in any association consisting solely of social fraternities, except on approval of the National Board of Directors

Which we have...now what is the IFC policy?

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be nasty, but when I see this kind of thing it makes me completely insane. Nebraska Delt nailed it when he said it would be like saying "hey, Alpha Phi is a fraternity so they should be on IFC!"

IFC's policies are somewhat looser - they allow social/professional groups to be members on individual campuses and also have some groups that are on IFC and NPHC both - but I have to really question if this situation would go over.

I'm assuming the National Board (where are you, Randy?) approved this to keep the chapter on the campus, but again, the school is being absolutely DUMB if this is a requirement for APO to be there. Even if the chapter does have to be on the IFC, IMO they should have an associate (nonvoting) membership and/or opt out of holding any positions. APO doesn't rush like the other fraternities and that alone is enough to disqualify a member - male OR female - from having any sort of authority over the other groups.

Actually, since they fall under IFC, we follow their rush rules and participate in all IFC events, which includes rush events.
We do our NM recruitment same as they do.

Another Bylaw:
AUTHORITY OF CHAPTERS: Any chapter may adopt bylaws, rules, or regulations not in conflict with the National Articles of Incorporation, the National Bylaws, the Standard Chapter Articles of Association, National Policies, or the rules, regulations, or policies of the educational institution, state, commonwealth, or territory in which the chapter is located

In the event that the rules, regualtions, or policies of the educational institution, state commonwealth, or territory in which the chapter is located are more stringent that those included in the National Articles of Incorporation, the National Bylaws, the Standard Chapter Articles of Association, or other National policies, the rules, regualtions, and policies of the host institution, state, commonwealth, or territory in which the chapter is located shall prevail...

Which means to be a member, we have to be apart of IFC because that is the rule of the School hosting the organization.

Ummm...

so you're saying, you have membership selection? You only give bids to selected people? You do not give everyone who wants to pursue membership the chance to pursue it?

Whoooooooooooooooo boy.

While it is against APO's National Policy, APO also recognizes that school policy will overrule their policies.

SO, if the SCHOOL requires that their APO Chapter be part of their IFC, it is. APO National will not make an issue of it.

If people disagree with it, well, you need to convence the school to change. (most schools put APO in with the various clubs, along with the professional GLOs).

In APO, we do Rush to recruite pledges. Some chapters do bids, some don't. For most chapters, we give everyone a change to pursue membership. But they still must complete our pledge program. Its not automatic that you will be able to pledge and become a member. Fail to met the requirements, and you won't get in.

I think I recall doing this once, a long time ago. We only did this because we wanted to weed out wackjobs. It was obvious who they were.

I think she has no right being in that position of leadership.....

There is no way she can make decisions on "Greek life" that affects the brotherhood of organizations when she is not one!

it appears to me that if apo, an organization with a coed membership, becomes a member of the interfraternity council, made up of solely male membership, then the integrity of male only membership has been compromised and those male only fraternities won't have a leg to stand on if a woman seeks membership.this is the reason most fraternities and sororities do not have honorary big brothers or little sisters anymore. perhaps the university does not understand they are creating many potential problems. either that, or they just don't care.

That's what I mean. Everyone has a chance to pursue membership, but not everyone is successful in that pursuit.

But her post sounded like they do not give everyone a chance and instead vote on who they do or do not allow to pledge...which to me pretty much violates what I was taught is a very basic tenet of our organization.

If I had known we were allowed to pick and choose, my senior year would have been much easier. :rolleyes:

T, I was wondering when you would come to play in this thread. :p

Excuse me, but APO is as much "Greek" as the general GLOs, and we have the concept of brotherhood as well. The only real difference is we don't own houses. And on many campuses, the socials don't either.

We don't know what campus life is at this school. If none of the social/general GLOs have homes, the administration may not see much difference between APO, the socials, the professionals, etc.

Let's not get our panties in a wad over this...

but with apo, the lines blurr, because they have coed membership. ifc is for male organizations and panhellenic for female organizations. that is my problem with the young woman serving as ifc president. all greek president-yes, ifc or panhellenic president-no.

So could she serve as Panhel president, by those definitions?

I'm not sure why possessing a pair of boobs makes you unfit to govern a particular council.

LMAO, I almost didn't open this thread...

no s & s, reread my post. ifc-no, panhell-no, all greek-yes. it has nothing to do with boobs or balls, it is that the boobs and balls are in the same org-thus making it coed, not single sex.

I guess I just don't see the problem.

The national organization, at least in this case, approves.
The school approves.
The Greek advisor probably approves, or would have put a stop to it.
The IFC obviously approves since they are the ones that appointed her (at least that's how IFC works at my school).

If APO is on IFC, then their members have just as much of a right as anyone to serve positions on IFC. In fact, they SHOULD be serving positions on it.

I don't think nearly as many people would have issues with it if she was a guy who belonged to APO.

The only thing that I see as being up for debate is whether or not this APO chapter really needs to be on IFC considering that they have an all-Greek council there -- but I'm assuming that that's something that they debated and made a decision on, and that they made that decision for good reasons.

I don't care about an APO being on IFC, but I think this statement is not accurate. I don't mean that APO isn't "as much Greek" or that it doesn't have "the concept of brotherhood" -- it is a completely different type of organization, whether the "socials" are housed or not.

There's a panhell and an IFC at that school?

You gotta be kidding me.

The only Greeks I can see surviving at a commuter school in Queens are the NPHC members.

-Rudey

WOW. I really hope you are being sarcastic. There are quite a few sororites at Queens College and Brooklyn CUNY....locals and nationals that remain strong.

I am not quite sure how to take this - is it a compliment or a slam? LOL.

Re: Just would like to know you opinion
 

For me, this seems to be the bigger issue. And a great job according to who?

If her presidency caused divisiveness rather than unity, then that is not good regardless of gender.

IMO, a true leader with the overall org's agenda in mind would not seek a position knowing it would cause turmoil. That sounds more like a personal agenda.

As an aside: 33girl did not come off as nasty to me--emphatic, but not nasty. After you have been around here a little longer, you will definitely know the difference.

In some schools, the IFC (and NPC) operate on a rotation basis - based on who has been there the longest (this is what national NPC does). If this is the case, the only people who "appointed" her are her fellow APO brothers.

I would have just as many issues with it if she was a guy. It's NOT her gender, it's the fact that she is in a nonsocial fraternity and is the head of the group that governs social fraternities.

Think of it this way: if somone from a service sorority who didn't have a quota or total was on your school's Panhel and was the head of the body making decisions about rush, total, quota etc, would you be OK with it?

And as far as the school and the Greek advisor approving - in this case, I'm sorry, the school is just dumb. I doubt that they debated this - to me, it just seems like they made a huge, ridiculous assumption. They see "fraternity" and "pledge" and think they are the same as the rest of the groups on IFC. They're not, for the obvious reason (they're co-ed) and the less obvious (APO does not have member selection in the same way IFC groups do).

APO should no more be on IFC than Phi Beta Kappa or Tri Delta. It's a completely different type of group. Not better or worse, just different.

Re: Re: Just would like to know you opinion
 

The greek community obviously. When she was elected, there was a lot of the whispering and whatnot until she proved herself to be a strong leader. She didn't go in there with a personal agenda and it was with the support of half of the fraternities that she ran for president. What I was asking in this thread, was how people feel and think about it and whether or not it would ever happen at their school.

And I have been reading on here for almost 3 years and just recently registered so I could post to my sisters.
I just usually don't post because too many people on here twist others words because they don't agree with what others say.:mad: :mad: :mad:

Re: Re: Re: Just would like to know you opinion
 

So why are you mad thrice over?

It was the other Fraternities on campus who decided.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Just would like to know you opinion
 

LOL....I got a little mouse happy.:) :( :o :D ;) :p :eek: :eek:

APO/FIT?
 

now, let's see...Alpha Phi Omega used to be the boy scout fraternity, then they decided to take in girls, and since they
have no house, there is apparently no problem. But a Chi O
can be an APO and so can a boy Pi Phi and a girl Pi Phi. But
do they belong in IFC or PanHel or do they belong in one of
the new multicultural ones? Er, perhaps Tom Earp can preside
and settle this one. Gosh, in these earth-shattering days the
problems we must abide!

Re: APO/FIT?
 

sounds like they don't belong in any of them. they are a totally different premise than the more selective greek organizations and obviously them being co-ed is a difference. my college listed them along with the honors and business and service orgs, not as the "normal" greek that most people think of. i think the point that you CAN be in APO and in something else alone speaks to the status it has amongst greeks. That Chi O and Pi Phi you speak of can be in APO but not in each others sororities.

point is that it's nothing earth-shattering about this matter. point is that no matter how social APO is on a campus, it still is not a social organization and has completely different rules. if this chapter of APO is acting as a social org by being selective, ect. then that is a problem with them that they need to deal with via nationals. if it's that big an infraction against APO, then they need to be reported.

another thought...a woman being IFC prez at most big schools would not fly. maybe since it's a commuter school then they can get away with it.