GreekChat.com Forums - Camel, after rape, must die, says Islamic law

Page 1 of 2

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

GreekChat.com Forums (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/index.php)

- News & Politics (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?f=207)

- - Camel, after rape, must die, says Islamic law (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=70998)

hoosier

10-03-2005 08:20 PM

Camel, after rape, must die, says Islamic law

Cameline Honor Killing
"A man has been sentenced to three months in jail after pleading guilty to charges of bestiality," the Gulf News reports from the emirate of Ras Al Khaimah:

A court official said the Bangladeshi, who worked as a driver, had been spotted going into his employer's barn on a regular basis.

His employer became suspicious as his duties did not involve him dealing with animals. . . .

The official said the driver confessed to police that he used to have sex with one particular camel. . . .

The official added the man told the prosecution that he had fallen in love with the camel and had sex with the animal.

This sort of thing goes on in America too; ... But what's shocking about the Emirati story is that, whereas the man is getting three months in jail, his victim is to suffer a much worse punishment: "The camel involved in the case is to be put down in accordance with Islamic law." Here is a culture that treats its camels as badly as it treats its women.

- for more great international news, I recommend Opinion Journal (get it daily in your email).

RACooper

10-03-2005 08:23 PM

Hoosier go bash other cultures somewhere else... old news, and yes in the US there are also sex laws that demand the death of an animal in besiality cases (but only if the animal and offender are male) - look it up in the weird sex-laws online.... and yet that doesn't inspire me to slag all of the US because of some silly law now does it?

Rudey

10-03-2005 08:36 PM

Re: Camel, after rape, must die, says Islamic law

Don't worry. They'll probably let him go soon and then the village elders will proceed to gang rape the camel's family while the President refuses to let the camels leave the country.

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by hoosier
Cameline Honor Killing
"A man has been sentenced to three months in jail after pleading guilty to charges of bestiality," the Gulf News reports from the emirate of Ras Al Khaimah:

A court official said the Bangladeshi, who worked as a driver, had been spotted going into his employer's barn on a regular basis.

His employer became suspicious as his duties did not involve him dealing with animals. . . .

The official said the driver confessed to police that he used to have sex with one particular camel. . . .

The official added the man told the prosecution that he had fallen in love with the camel and had sex with the animal.

This sort of thing goes on in America too; ... But what's shocking about the Emirati story is that, whereas the man is getting three months in jail, his victim is to suffer a much worse punishment: "The camel involved in the case is to be put down in accordance with Islamic law." Here is a culture that treats its camels as badly as it treats its women.

- for more great international news, I recommend Opinion Journal (get it daily in your email).

moe.ron

10-04-2005 02:59 AM

hoosier, how do you feel about Cak Nur's philosophy of Islam and the state?

Honour killing isn't part of Islam. In most cases, the perpetrator of the killing is done outside of Islamic law. Honour killing is unheard of in Southeast Asia and West African Muslim nations. However, it is very relevant in South Asia and the Middle East.

The execution of princess Misha'al of Saudi Arabia is an example of extre judiciary example of honor killing. Instead of the princess being brought before the judicial system, and having four witnesses of good charactes, which would be almost impossible to prove since these conducts are done in private.

hoosier, can you tell me explicitly where in Islamic law that says the Camel must die? Cut and paste would be fine.

so damn cool

10-04-2005 07:35 AM

I wish I was the camel.

FHwku

10-04-2005 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by moe.ron

The execution of princess Misha'al of Saudi Arabia is an example of extre judiciary example of honor killing. Instead of the princess being brought before the judicial system, and having four witnesses of good charactes, which would be almost impossible to prove since these conducts are done in private.

Death of a Princess

Rudey

10-04-2005 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by moe.ron
hoosier, how do you feel about Cak Nur's philosophy of Islam and the state?

Honour killing isn't part of Islam. In most cases, the perpetrator of the killing is done outside of Islamic law. Honour killing is unheard of in Southeast Asia and West African Muslim nations. However, it is very relevant in South Asia and the Middle East.

The execution of princess Misha'al of Saudi Arabia is an example of extre judiciary example of honor killing. Instead of the princess being brought before the judicial system, and having four witnesses of good charactes, which would be almost impossible to prove since these conducts are done in private.

hoosier, can you tell me explicitly where in Islamic law that says the Camel must die? Cut and paste would be fine.

That is your interpretation of Islam. There are no absolutes in religion. Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it say "Thou shalt blow yourself up" or "Thou shalt fly a plane into buildings", but there are interpretations and fatwas that have allowed for that. Premarital and extramarital sex are punishable, as you say, if you have 4 witnesses. That there shows that honor killings can be a part of Islam. The fact that it is not a rare occurence is further proof that many people have this interpretation of Islam. But then again Sunnis don't believe Shites are true muslims either.

Traditional interpretations of Islamic law prescribe severe punishments for zina' (extramarital sex) by both men and women; premarital sex may be punished by up to 100 lashes, while adultery is punishable by stoning. The act must however be attested by at least four male witnesses of good character, punishments are reserved to the legal authorities, and false accusations are themselves punished severely. The term "honor killing" refers specifically to extra-legal punishment by the family against the woman, and as such is forbidden by the sharia.

The execution of the Saudi Arabian princess Misha'al is a prime example of an honor killing in that the execution did not follow any Islamic court proceeding but was ordered directly by her grandfather.

Interpretations of these rules vary. Some Arabs regard it as their right under both tradition and sharia (by the process of al-urf), though this contradicts the views of the vast majority of Islamic scholars (fuqaha). Ayatollah Ali Khamenei of Iran has condemned the practice as "un-Islamic", though the punishment under Iranian law remains lenient. In Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, honor killings are unknown, as also in Muslim parts of West Africa. According to Sheikh Atiyyah Saqr, former head of the al-Azhar University Fatwa Committee (one of the oldest and most prestigious in the Muslim world):

"Like all other religions, Islam strictly prohibits murder and killing without legal justification. Allah, Most High, says, “Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is Hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.” (An-Nisa’: 93) The so-called “honor killing” is based on ignorance and disregard of morals and laws, which cannot be abolished except by disciplinary punishments."[5]
In Pakistan, when a bill proposing to strengthen the law against "Honor Killing" was defeated in Parliament, March 2, 2005, the government allied with the Islamist opposition to decide explicitly that the bill was "un-Islamic" (BBC)

Even Hamas ordered a woman to become a suicide bomber or suffer an honor killing.

-Rudey

honeychile

10-04-2005 10:54 AM

FWIW, one of sorority sisters was killed in an "honor" killing - by her husband. I'll search to see if I can find the link, as I know that I've told the story before.

Kevlar281

10-04-2005 11:00 AM

What no camel toe?

Rudey

10-04-2005 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
FWIW, one of sorority sisters was killed in an "honor" killing - by her husband. I'll search to see if I can find the link, as I know that I've told the story before.

Did an Imam or any Muslim leader punish the people that did it?

-Rudey

CSUSigEp

10-04-2005 11:15 AM

damn camels have fallen off. First Joe Camel died of lung cancer, now this??

moe.ron

10-04-2005 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
[B]Interpretations of these rules vary. Some Arabs regard it as their right under both tradition and sharia (by the process of al-urf), though this contradicts the views of the vast majority of Islamic scholars (fuqaha). Ayatollah Ali Khamenei of Iran has condemned the practice as "un-Islamic", though the punishment under Iranian law remains lenient. In Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country, honor killings are unknown, as also in Muslim parts of West Africa.[B]

Yes it's my interpretations, according to my culture, which is true to me. islam is a very decentralized religion. Different religion interpret it according to its own history and region. Honor killing is unheard of in Indonesia.

honeychile

10-04-2005 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Did an Imam or any Muslim leader punish the people that did it?

-Rudey

Not unless you consider being made into an example of "how a good Muslim husband controls his wife" being punished.

Lindz928

10-04-2005 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
Not unless you consider being made into an example of "how a good Muslim husband controls his wife" being punished.

That is so sad. :( I would definately like to hear the story if you can find the link.

It makes me sad to think that in this day, there are beliefs and places that still consider women to be second class citizens.

honeychile

10-04-2005 01:53 PM

Sarai's Story

I'm using my pledge sister's Muslim/assumed name, as her family wants to stay in contact with her sons.

Sarai met a man from Malaysia while in college, and they became engaged. He asked her to meet his family, and bought her a plane ticket to Malaysia. Once she got there (and I'm not going to pretend that I know the complete details here), she was told that she couldn't leave Malaysia without a visa, and to get a visa, she had to be married, to get married, she had to convert to Islam. They got married. Her new husband was a broadcaster, very well known, and they had a very luxurious lifestyle. Townhouse in Kuala Lampur, a MAJOR house in the "suburbs", a country house in Viet Nam, several nice cars - the whole package. Yet, she felt the constrictions, and she felt that she had been tricked into the marriage - even though she loved her husband.

They had a son, and at that time, they agreed that an American education was far superior to that of Malaysia, so they would buy a house in America, so their son (and future children) could go to Amerian schools, with Sarai with them. They had three more children, but one died young.

Fast forward to when the son turned six. Sarai asked when they were going to go house hunting, so their son could start school in America. The husband announced that he had changed his mind, and they were going to remain in Malaysia. At this point, she had not seen her family in 8 years. They argued, and at some point, he locked her in a room with no windows. The next day, with the "holy men" present, he executed her. He is considered a hero, a real family man.

As I said, I cannot provide the particulars, as her family wants to maintain contact with Sarai's children. I spoke to her a couple times while she was still alive & in Malaysia, and she made it clear that her husband only used his religion when it was to his advantage - he had alcohol & other things not permitted by the Quran. Towards her end, her letters became more and more urgent, until the last one, which was smuggled out. Along the very edges of this small letters, she had written in code: "Don't EVER let anything come between you and American citizenship! You don't know what it's like, to not even be able to go to the Embassy for help, just because the country you're in doesn't consider you an American anymore!" She said more, but some of it is private.

That's the gist of it. Our chapter's Spirit Award is named after her, as Sarai was one of the lovable & beautiful young women most of us ever met. If one person is saved from harm by the telling of her story, I will feel justified.

Lindz928

10-04-2005 02:00 PM

That story really leaves me shocked, appalled, and speechless. How terribly sad. :(

PoohsHoneyBee

10-04-2005 02:20 PM

Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile

As I said, I cannot provide the particulars, as her family wants to maintain contact with Sarai's children. I spoke to her a couple times while she was still alive & in Malaysia, and she made it clear that her husband only used his religion when it was to his advantage - he had alcohol & other things not permitted by the Quran. Towards her end, her letters became more and more urgent, until the last one, which was smuggled out. Along the very edges of this small letters, she had written in code: "Don't EVER let anything come between you and American citizenship! You don't know what it's like, to not even be able to go to the Embassy for help, just because the country you're in doesn't consider you an American anymore!" She said more, but some of it is private.

That's the gist of it. Our chapter's Spirit Award is named after her, as Sarai was one of the lovable & beautiful young women most of us ever met. If one person is saved from harm by the
telling of her story, I will feel justified.

This story is so sad and it scares me a little bit. I wish I could read through her letters....

jubilance1922

10-04-2005 03:15 PM

Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by honeychile
I'm using my pledge sister's Muslim/assumed name, as her family wants to stay in contact with her sons.

Sarai met a man from Malaysia while in college, and they became engaged. He asked her to meet his family, and bought her a plane ticket to Malaysia. Once she got there (and I'm not going to pretend that I know the complete details here), she was told that she couldn't leave Malaysia without a visa, and to get a visa, she had to be married, to get married, she had to convert to Islam. They got married. Her new husband was a broadcaster, very well known, and they had a very luxurious lifestyle. Townhouse in Kuala Lampur, a MAJOR house in the "suburbs", a country house in Viet Nam, several nice cars - the whole package. Yet, she felt the constrictions, and she felt that she had been tricked into the marriage - even though she loved her husband.

They had a son, and at that time, they agreed that an American education was far superior to that of Malaysia, so they would buy a house in America, so their son (and future children) could go to Amerian schools, with Sarai with them. They had three more children, but one died young.

Fast forward to when the son turned six. Sarai asked when they were going to go house hunting, so their son could start school in America. The husband announced that he had changed his mind, and they were going to remain in Malaysia. At this point, she had not seen her family in 8 years. They argued, and at some point, he locked her in a room with no windows. The next day, with the "holy men" present, he executed her. He is considered a hero, a real family man.

As I said, I cannot provide the particulars, as her family wants to maintain contact with Sarai's children. I spoke to her a couple times while she was still alive & in Malaysia, and she made it clear that her husband only used his religion when it was to his advantage - he had alcohol & other things not permitted by the Quran. Towards her end, her letters became more and more urgent, until the last one, which was smuggled out. Along the very edges of this small letters, she had written in code: "Don't EVER let anything come between you and American citizenship! You don't know what it's like, to not even be able to go to the Embassy for help, just because the country you're in doesn't consider you an American anymore!" She said more, but some of it is private.

That's the gist of it. Our chapter's Spirit Award is named after her, as Sarai was one of the lovable & beautiful young women most of us ever met. If one person is saved from harm by the telling of her story, I will feel justified.

This is an incredibly sad story.

I have a question though...what is saving someone from harm? Not allowing them to marry Muslims? Because EVERY religion has fanatics that practice their religion incorrectly and twist it for their own personal gain. Islam shouldn't be signaled out.

Rudey

10-04-2005 03:17 PM

Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
This is an incredibly sad story.

I have a question though...what is saving someone from harm? Not allowing them to marry Muslims? Because EVERY religion has fanatics that practice their religion incorrectly and twist it for their own personal gain. Islam shouldn't be signaled out.

You can determine what is and isn't incorrect?

Funny how such a large number of mistakes and "incorrectness" happens with the blessing of learned and powerful religious figures then.

-Rudey

jubilance1922

10-04-2005 03:42 PM

Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
You can determine what is and isn't incorrect?

Funny how such a large number of mistakes and "incorrectness" happens with the blessing of learned and powerful religious figures then.

-Rudey

Rudey, this is a serious response, so I hope I get one back.

For me, the Quran is my guide, it tells me how to practice my religion correctly. If I'm prohibited from doing something by the Quran, but I do it anyway, then that means that I'm not practicing my religion correctly.

NO man is perfect, and the only one who can truly judge someone is God, and he will on Judgement Day. Whether another human gives his "blessing" on something is irrelevant.

I have a serious question now. You seem determined to point out the "large number of mistakes and 'incorrectness'" in Islam. Do you have a personal vendetta against organized religion, or only this one? I ask because I have a lot of problems with Christianity, but I don't post everytime someone beats children under the name of Christ or when a priest molests a child. It serves me no purpose in my own faith to down someone else's religion. I'm saying this in all sincerity, it truly hurts my heart that almost everyday I log on GC and have to have my faith attacked. You may not want to know, but not Muslims are the way that you try to protray them.

I'm sure you're going to have some snappy comeback, which is fine, but my purpose was to really try to engage you in a serious conversation, not to be mean to you or berate you. If you would feel more confortable having this conversation privately, you can pm me.

Rudey

10-04-2005 04:10 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

On Organized Religion:
They say that religion is the opiate of the masses. I'm not one of the masses but I tend to agree with the statement. I don't trust people without faith and I don't trust people of the masses. But I believe in the freedoms and the progress the world has made through religion (abolishment of slavery in the US, etc.). How's that for the generality of my views on religion?

Yes, no man is perfect. I agree with that.

On Islam:
However, how am I attacking Islam by posting a truth or a fact? Perhaps what bothers you is that I am able to find more "truths and facts" on Islam to post than I am on other religions. But what is that a function of? Perhaps it's my interest in the middle east. Maybe, more than likely, it's a function of the fact that every day there is more and more news about Muslims and Arabs that either support or partake in awful acts of violence. There is very little in the news about priests and molestations these days but there sure as heck was news when Muslim terrorists attacked Bali. If there were no news, I'd have little to comment on the topic I suppose.

And most people are tired of the "Islam is a religion of peace" or the "these guys are wrong" speech. No major organized religion is a religion of peace. None. Mohammed himself fought and killed. And, again, it seems that there is a very large portion of the Muslim world that interprets the Qu'ran differently from you with the guidance of Muslim leaders (financed through US ally Saudi Arabia) and this is something that can't be ignored. Why do I see large protests against the war in Iraq in Muslim countries but no protests against the fact that Sunni Muslims are massacring Shite Muslims? Perhaps someone will now say "Islam is a religion of peace" and we can forget that.

I don't know how to fix things, but neither denial nor empty words will ever help.

-Rudey

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
Rudey, this is a serious response, so I hope I get one back.

For me, the Quran is my guide, it tells me how to practice my religion correctly. If I'm prohibited from doing something by the Quran, but I do it anyway, then that means that I'm not practicing my religion correctly.

NO man is perfect, and the only one who can truly judge someone is God, and he will on Judgement Day. Whether another human gives his "blessing" on something is irrelevant.

I have a serious question now. You seem determined to point out the "large number of mistakes and 'incorrectness'" in Islam. Do you have a personal vendetta against organized religion, or only this one? I ask because I have a lot of problems with Christianity, but I don't post everytime someone beats children under the name of Christ or when a priest molests a child. It serves me no purpose in my own faith to down someone else's religion. I'm saying this in all sincerity, it truly hurts my heart that almost everyday I log on GC and have to have my faith attacked. You may not want to know, but not Muslims are the way that you try to protray them.

I'm sure you're going to have some snappy comeback, which is fine, but my purpose was to really try to engage you in a serious conversation, not to be mean to you or berate you. If you would feel more confortable having this conversation privately, you can pm me.

Lindz928

10-04-2005 04:18 PM

Jubilance, I have an honest question for you.... Is the Quran written as vaguely as the Bible is? Or does it list specifically what you can and cannot do? I ask because I know that the Bible can be read to say almost anything that you want it to say. I am honestly wondering if the Quran is written in a similar manner, and can be interpreted in different ways.

Lindz928

10-04-2005 04:22 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Ok, now a serious question for you, Rudey. How do you feel about faith without organized religion? Your statement about not trusting people without faith and also not trusting the masses seems to lead in that direction.

Rudey

10-04-2005 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lindz928
Jubilance, I have an honest question for you.... Is the Quran written as vaguely as the Bible is? Or does it list specifically what you can and cannot do? I ask because I know that the Bible can be read to say almost anything that you want it to say. I am honestly wondering if the Quran is written in a similar manner, and can be interpreted in different ways.

I'm not Jubilance but

There are different sects and sects within sects of Islam because they interpret it differently.

Muslim leaders differ on their views because they interpret it differently.

-Rudey

RACooper

10-04-2005 04:24 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
On Islam:
However, how am I attacking Islam by posting a truth or a fact? Perhaps what bothers you is that I am able to find more "truths and facts" on Islam to post than I am on other religions. But what is that a function of? Perhaps it's my interest in the middle east. Maybe, more than likely, it's a function of the fact that every day there is more and more news about Muslims and Arabs that either support or partake in awful acts of violence. There is very little in the news about priests and molestations these days but there sure as heck was news when Muslim terrorists attacked Bali. If there were no news, I'd have little to comment on the topic I suppose.

And most people are tired of the "Islam is a religion of peace" or the "these guys are wrong" speech. No major organized religion is a religion of peace. None. Mohammed himself fought and killed. And, again, it seems that there is a very large portion of the Muslim world that interprets the Qu'ran differently from you with the guidance of Muslim leaders (financed through US ally Saudi Arabia) and this is something that can't be ignored. Why do I see large protests against the war in Iraq in Muslim countries but no protests against the fact that Sunni Muslims are massacring Shite Muslims? Perhaps someone will now say "Islam is a religion of peace" and we can forget that.

I don't know how to fix things, but neither denial nor empty words will ever help.

-Rudey

I think that is a rather weak arguement - basically because there is just as much religous related/motivated violence out there in the news, but you seem to highlight really only those stories that feature Islam.

For example if you log onto Netscape today you can see a story about a Catholic priest commiting sucide after killing two people at a funeral home... or how about the sectarian violence that flared up last month in Ireland? The thing is Islam is as much a religion of peace as Christianity is - radicals and hatemongers can hide within the folds of any religion really, it just important that you realize that the vocal/active minority does not always represent the majority or the true faith.

The question is of course is your fixation on the "negative" stories featuring Islam a product of the us & them or the easy identification of Muslims as the "other" - or is there another not so sub-consious reason?

Rudey

10-04-2005 04:29 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Funny how many times I have to correct the lies you post or the accusations you make.

My argument is strong and that is why there were so many stories of collective shame written by Muslim journalists following a school siege.

-Rudey
--PS I don't read Netscape; the newspapers I read tend to have more substance.

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper
I think that is a rather weak arguement - basically because there is just as much religous related/motivated violence out there in the news, but you seem to highlight really only those stories that feature Islam.

For example if you log onto Netscape today you can see a story about a Catholic priest commiting sucide after killing two people at a funeral home... or how about the sectarian violence that flared up last month in Ireland? The thing is Islam is as much a religion of peace as Christianity is - radicals and hatemongers can hide within the folds of any religion really, it just important that you realize that the vocal/active minority does not always represent the majority or the true faith.

The question is of course is your fixation on the "negative" stories featuring Islam a product of the us & them or the easy identification of Muslims as the "other" - or is there another not so sub-consious reason?

jubilance1922

10-04-2005 04:35 PM

Quote:

I think Rudey's answer to this question is sufficient. There are some things that are spelled out exactly, and other things that are more figurative. An example of figurative is the topic of wearing a headscarf. The Quran simply says that woman (and men too) should cover their modesty. So that is where the debate comes in, because different people have different definitions of "modesty".

Lindz928

10-04-2005 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
I think Rudey's answer to this question is sufficient. There are some things that are spelled out exactly, and other things that are more figurative. An example of figurative is the topic of wearing a headscarf. The Quran simply says that woman (and men too) should cover their modesty. So that is where the debate comes in, because different people have different definitions of "modesty".

Thanks!

jubilance1922

10-04-2005 04:41 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
On Organized Religion:
They say that religion is the opiate of the masses. I'm not one of the masses but I tend to agree with the statement. I don't trust people without faith and I don't trust people of the masses. But I believe in the freedoms and the progress the world has made through religion (abolishment of slavery in the US, etc.). How's that for the generality of my views on religion?

Yes, no man is perfect. I agree with that.

On Islam:
However, how am I attacking Islam by posting a truth or a fact? Perhaps what bothers you is that I am able to find more "truths and facts" on Islam to post than I am on other religions. But what is that a function of? Perhaps it's my interest in the middle east. Maybe, more than likely, it's a function of the fact that every day there is more and more news about Muslims and Arabs that either support or partake in awful acts of violence. There is very little in the news about priests and molestations these days but there sure as heck was news when Muslim terrorists attacked Bali. If there were no news, I'd have little to comment on the topic I suppose.

And most people are tired of the "Islam is a religion of peace" or the "these guys are wrong" speech. No major organized religion is a religion of peace. None. Mohammed himself fought and killed. And, again, it seems that there is a very large portion of the Muslim world that interprets the Qu'ran differently from you with the guidance of Muslim leaders (financed through US ally Saudi Arabia) and this is something that can't be ignored. Why do I see large protests against the war in Iraq in Muslim countries but no protests against the fact that Sunni Muslims are massacring Shite Muslims? Perhaps someone will now say "Islam is a religion of peace" and we can forget that.

I don't know how to fix things, but neither denial nor empty words will ever help.

-Rudey

Thank you for a serious answer. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I just want you to know, I and those that I associate with, truly are peaceful. Those who commit murders and atrocities will have to answer for their actions on their Judgement Day. I can ony try to walk the path of good and pray for those who stray.

Rudey

10-04-2005 04:44 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by jubilance1922
Thank you for a serious answer. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I just want you to know, I and those that I associate with, truly are peaceful. Those who commit murders and atrocities will have to answer for their actions on their Judgement Day. I can ony try to walk the path of good and pray for those who stray.

I had no doubts about you to begin with.

Have a good Ramadan.

-Rudey

KSig RC

10-04-2005 04:53 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Coop, Rudey ceded this very point - it is also implicit in his overall view that no religions are truly 'peaceful' in totality.

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper
For example if you log onto Netscape today you can see a story about a Catholic priest commiting sucide after killing two people at a funeral home... or how about the sectarian violence that flared up last month in Ireland? The thing is Islam is as much a religion of peace as Christianity is - radicals and hatemongers can hide within the folds of any religion really, it just important that you realize that the vocal/active minority does not always represent the majority or the true faith.

It's not a matter of 'majority vs. minority' within the individual religions - you're using the wrong comparison, and I'm not sure how else to get you to see this.

moe.ron

10-04-2005 05:07 PM

There are approximately 73 different sects within Islam. Then, there are sub-sects within those sects. One of the major complain I've heard about talking to Muslims is the lack of central authority. What maybe considered blasphemy in one country might be totally acceptable to another. For instance, in Indonesia, many will pray then present offering to different spirits or ancestors. That will never be acceptable in the Middle East.

Rudey

10-04-2005 05:20 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by KSig RC
Coop, Rudey ceded this very point - it is also implicit in his overall view that no religions are truly 'peaceful' in totality.

It's not a matter of 'majority vs. minority' within the individual religions - you're using the wrong comparison, and I'm not sure how else to get you to see this.

I don't need a lesson on bias from a guy hellbent on attacking America every chance he has.

Cooper should spend more of his time protesting against murderous regimes like North Korea or virtually any Arab country instead of protesting the US (on greekchat.com).

And perhaps he should spend more time protesting the massacres of so many Shites by Sunnis instead of protesting against the Iraq war (on greekchat.com).

-Rudey

moe.ron

10-04-2005 05:22 PM

Ok people, tone it down. Bring the discussion back to the topic at hand, or at least closed to it.

KSig RC

10-04-2005 06:11 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
I don't need a lesson on bias from a guy hellbent on attacking America every chance he has.

RACooper

10-04-2005 07:08 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
I don't need a lesson on bias from a guy hellbent on attacking America every chance he has.

Hey now if you can spout off about me having an anti-American bias - I can spout off about you having an anti-Arab and anti-Islam bias... fair's fair.

Quote:

Cooper should spend more of his time protesting against murderous regimes like North Korea or virtually any Arab country instead of protesting the US (on greekchat.com).

How do you know I don't ;) It's just that GC really isn't the forum to protest North Korea, Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Sudan, etc. Mainly because it'd be an empty protest/statement here because of the little to no impact it would have on public opinion or government policy...

Quote:

And perhaps he should spend more time protesting the massacres of so many Shites by Sunnis instead of protesting against the Iraq war (on greekchat.com).

-Rudey

Gee Rudey I hope you don't need me to point out that the Iraq War and the Sunni/Shia sectarian violence are just a little bit connected :p But nice to know that my opinion on the illegality of the Iraq War some how invalidates all my other opinions... you might want to be careful because you're attack arguement style might be infringing on FOXNews proprietary methods.

All that aside what have I ever said that made you eronously think that I don't deplore the sectarian violence? I guess all my other posts talking about the stupidity of hatred must have slipped your memory huh?

Rudey

10-04-2005 07:10 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

I think you are mistaken.

-Rudey
--I have already spoken and you simply don't understand so please don't speak about it with me.

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper

Lies and Accusations from a man his own chapter brothers called a liar and want nothing to do with. [/B]

RACooper

10-04-2005 07:17 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
I think you are mistaken.

-Rudey
--I have already spoken and you simply don't understand so please don't speak about it with me.

Awh muffin did my words make your head hurt with all the thinking? I'm sorry :D

Oh hey if you are going to "threaten" me with that silly post of yours please understand three things: 1) the subject matter of the email was dealt with, and is a dead issue for me and Craig; 2) you don't understand the context of what it is even talking about, but you think you do which is cute; 3) I don't care

But hey don't let me stop you; post away because hey it makes you look like a pretty petty guy (not that more evidence is needed).

Rudey

10-04-2005 07:21 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by RACooper
Awh muffin did my words make your head hurt with all the thinking? I'm sorry :D

Oh hey if you are going to "threaten" me with that silly post of yours please understand three things: 1) the subject matter of the email was dealt with, and is a dead issue for me and Craig; 2) you don't understand the context of what it is even talking about, but you think you do which is cute; 3) I don't care

But hey don't let me stop you; post away because hey it makes you look like a pretty petty guy (not that more evidence is needed).

Stop with the attacks and accusations.

You are doing the attacking.

You are the one that threatened to kill me. You are also the one that your chapter brothers say threatened other brothers. You are also the one that your brothers had banned.

You are done Cooper. I had my discussion with Jubilance and if you can't understand something as usual, then so be it.

-Rudey

RACooper

10-04-2005 07:30 PM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sarai's Story

Quote:

Originally posted by Rudey
Stop with the attacks and accusations.

You are doing the attacking.

You are the one that threatened to kill me. You are also the one that your chapter brothers say threatened other brothers. You are also the one that your brothers had banned.

Hahaha... Really I'm "banned" now huh? From what exactly? I'd really like to know what it is you think I'm banned from... because I'm sitting here in the chapter's front room and Brad (the prez. and my little) here hasn't heard of this "banning" you like to throw about - actually for that matter neither has Craig.... but I'll ask around just for you :D

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:24 PM.

Page 1 of 2

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page