Vanderbilt: Panhell presidents oppose sorority recruitment consultant
 

http://www.vanderbilthustler.com/vne.../433cc42296694



Panhell presidents oppose sorority recruitment consultant


by Rachel Stevens
September 30, 2005

Vanderbilt students reacted to an ad in last Friday’s Hustler for an independent consultant who advises freshman girls preparing for sorority recruitment.

In a letter to the editor today, the ten Panhellenic sorority presidents announced their opposition to the service, urging freshmen to speak to their Greek Ambassadors about any recruitment concerns rather than enlisting in the services of this outside consultant.

Amy Donavan, a 2004 graduate of Vanderbilt, began Sorority Recruitment Consulting (SRC) this year to assist freshman girls in their decision to become part of Vanderbilt’s Greek community.

Donavan said that the service, which costs $50 for a 50-minute session, provides individually tailored consulting sessions. These appointments may include discussing Greek life concerns, recruitment anxiety, feelings toward each chapter and even shopping for recruitment rounds outfits, according to the Web site.

Donavan said that approximately 30 to 40 freshman girls have signed up for the service.

“The responses I have had thus far have been overwhelmingly positive,” Donavan said. “During the recent Parents’ Weekend, some girls chose to do a consultation with their mothers present, which was an extremely fun experience for me.”

Greek Life advisor Kristen Torrey said that she feels Donavan’s services are unnecessary.

“There is absolutely no need for women to take part in that service since it is a service we provide for free through Greek ambassadors, Panhellenic executive board officers and Greek Life staff,” Torrey said.

Donovan said that while she feels Vandy’s Panhellenic Council does a good job of educating potential new members about recruitment, her services offer each of the girls individualized attention.

“The struggle lies in the ratio often Panhellenic executive members to roughly 500 to 600 potential new members,” Donovan said. “While the executive board members do a fabulous job, they will never have the ability to devote individual attention to a significant percentage of the potential new members.”

In addition, on her Web site, Donovan states that she can give better unbiased evaluations of the different chapters because the Greek ambassadors are only familiar with their own particular sororities.

The Panhellenic presidents, however, said that Greek ambassadors are indeed a good resource.

“We’ve had plenty of women for many years without recruitment consultants who have become happy sorority members,” Torrey said.

Contributing reporting by Meredith Casey and Sean Seelinger.


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What an excellent idea by Donovan. Plus i be she gives more matter of fact advice than the "ambassadors."

I think its a good idea too. If you did it thought you'd obviously want it to remain a secret. They've had these in Texas for awhile. Like pagent coaches, you know.

If the Greek Ambassadors can't give "unbiased evaluations of the different chapters because the [they] are only familiar with their own particular sororities", how can she? Was she a member of all 10? Or, a member of none (which wouldn't speak highly of her services as a recruitment consultant)...

lol, kids can get the same info from GC for free. Why pay?

Perhaps she is a member of a chapter that is no longer there, or more likely, she means that as an alum she can give generalized advice because she doesn't know the current women personally. Kinda like Rho Chis being anonymous. Are Greek ambassadors the same thing as Rho Chis?

I see nothing wrong with it. There are college admissions counselors and we've talked about rush counselors before on here. If they want to pay for it, let them.

I don't think it's wrong - she saw a market need and is filling it.

I guess I'm a bit sad/disappointed that we've put ourselves in a position (with the ways we do recruitment) where some PNMs _think_ it's necessary.

Sorry to crash, but I just have to comment.


Based on my past knowledge of people like this I believe this is a scam. I get the feeling that she is leading girls to believe that if they buy ($$$$) into her services she can "ensure" them a bid. I would not be surprised that there is some fine print on her contract that says she can not gaurentee a bid. But, she probably leads girls on by implying that they will get a bid if they pay her. Besides, the article says the Greek ambasadors are doing the same service for free.

Of course I do not know about (NPC) rush counselors, but I do know about college admissions counselors and they don't charge a fee.


ETA: Some things you should not have to pay for. Your own efforts should be able to get you where you want to go. If we (GLO members) are telling PNM to go into recruitment and be yourself, then you should not have to pay for a service who is going to try to portray you as something that you are not.

I think it's a great idea. It can't hurt anything, and considering what Vanderbilt charges for tuition, $50 is pocket change.

Independent college admissions consultants---who Ms. Donovan seems to resemble more than your average, overloaded HS guidance counselors--do charge considerable fees. It just depends on what you want and what you're willing to do to get it. If you're planning on paying $35K for tuition for four years, on top of the thousands of dollars a sorority at Vandy will cost you, then paying $50 for an independent consultant to isn't unreasonable at all.

I think this is a great idea! I can think of several GC women who would be great at this. :)

There is another thread about her somewhere here on Greek Chat - I saw it the other day. Amy is an alumn from Vanderbilt and was in a sorority. She held several offices in her own sorority and several Panhellenic offices, ending up as Panhellenic President. She has a web site advertising her services...

I do not know about Vanderbilt's Greek system (um, where is Vanderbilt????;) ) But, I think she has a great idea here. I agree it may be misleading that she can "get them a bid" to a sorority with her advice. (If she is advertising that way....) But for those women who want to go through Recruitment who have

1 - a parent/parents who is/are not Greek, so can't really help them know what to expect.

2 - don't know anyone at Vanderbilt to give them suggestions about what to wear, how to act, etc...She can help with that.

3 - Help them with ideas about what to ask, what to look for - basically help with a PNM conversation side. (This would be great, because I know of several PNM who didn't get all the answers during Recruitment and ended up dropping because of finding out the "whole truth.." Like when and how much dues are. How much of a time requirement? etc.)

4 - Someone who has no idea about recommendations (where to get them, are they needed, how to get them). I know that is a big plus on many campuses.

I could probably come up with several other instances. I think she may be an asset




Now, for another point about how Ms. Donavan is tied to the Greek community at Vanderbilt, I don't know. I don't know how their Greek system is set up, how "cut-throat" recruitment is there. Since she is a graduate of Vanderbilt, I think she would have a pretty good idea of student and campus life to give advice to incoming students. My school is very different in many ways from a traditional campus. (PM me if you want details)



The way it works at ODU, for Formal Recruitment, is that over the summer and up till Formal Recruitment, there is a policy about promoting "Go Greek!" and participating in Formal recruitment. Stressing the good points: get to meet and see every sorority on campus (which there are 5 NPC currently here), see sisterhood for all, etc. etc. You know, the benefits to Formal Recruitment. We weren't allowed to promote one chapter over another. (It actually is a recruitment violation on our campus.)
As a Rho Chi (what we were called at the time), all of us met several times to discuss and learn about the other sororities on campus. So we could tell PNM colors, mascots, philanthropy, motto etc. We learned some of the others cheers/songs. We would be doing them outside a party with the chapter sisters. We even learned some random facts about each chapter.

Slightly Off-Topic
For our revealing, we sang a song from someone's chapter. At the end, those sisters would remove their Recruitment T-shirts (we had a different color than the ones given the PNM) only to reveal their letters. It was great fun for all of us. The chapters at Bid Day sang their song with us. So instead of fifteen of us singing, it was the Rho Chis and their sisters singing their song. I still remember the songs for AXiD and Alpha Phi. Plus, we did the ZTA version of "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!" (I had to google that word to spell it right.) Needless to say, we Rho Chis had a blast that semester!!! We threw off the PNM to our identities. [/color]

Back to the topic...

And yes, I would even tell PNM to go to the National websites for the chapters to learn more info. Many of them I even pointed here to GC for advice.

I have to also agree with Munchkin03...I think there would be TONS of GC members who would perfect for this sort of thing.

Sorry this is so long.....Just wanted to add my two cents....

ETA : I needed to fix my stupid mistakes, man I can't wait for Fall Break!

I think it's a great idea...

Hey, S. Carolina girls, I'll help! :-)

Just kidding, but it sounds like a lot of fun... I mean, being able to help girls through it, giving them facts, and she has the potential to balance out the greek system a little as well (i.e. telling the girls not to listen to the "tent talk")

ETA: Vandy's in Tennessee... Great school, one of my friends is at Med School there.

I really see nothing wrong with this - it is definitely not needed on every campus, but at a school wiht a competitive recruitment, if a girl wants to pay for it, why not? I think it might be superior to the advice on GC given that she actually sees and interacts with the PNM on the same level that the sorority members will be during recruitment.

Okay, but the article said the Greek Ambasadors provide the same service for free...... Granted paying $50.00 compared to 35K is not that much.

I do agree with you about the fact she could give better advice than advice on GC. :) It's not that we (GCers) are wrong, but since she is familiar with the Vanderbilt system she would be better.

/slight hijack/

From my knowledge of the paid college admissions consultants, they are charging for a service that, if the hs student had any motivation he / she could obtain the same info for free. It just takes a little work. Especially these days since it is so much easier to obtain information via the web.

When I graduated hs, you really had to make phone calls, visit the campus and hope your college of choice(s) would present at your hs college night. These days you can go to any school web site and find much of the info you need from the comfort of your own home.

/end slight hijack/

I just think it would be similar for joining a sorority. With so many sorority women in the community, I am sure you can find someone, or someone who knows someone who would be willing to advise the PNM for free.

I guess I am just hung up on the fact that there is a charge for a service that can not offer any assurances (presumably of getting a bid). I guess that is why it is $50.00 and not $500.00 or some such price.

Or, maybe Ms. Donovan is offering her services like a style consultant. Kinda like etiquette lessons.

But they don't. A PX is not going to tell you certain things. Your PX will not tell you not to tell KD that you're a triple XO legacy. Your PX will not tell you that it is better to say "I worked for a non-profit organization" than it is to say "I worked at Planned Parenthood." Your PX won't tell you that a J.Crew dress will or won't be just as acceptable as a Lilly. This woman will. I feel very qualified to give women advice on rush at Big 10 schools, but if I knew somebody going to Vandy and this service was available, I might suggest it. I don't know what it takes at Vandy, but I do know that it takes more than good grades and a nice personality.

There's a charge for law school applications. I gave the University of Wisconsin Law school $40 with no assurance that I got in. I didn't. I thought it was worth paying for anyway. Girls at Vanderbilt are paying a Recruitment Registration Fee of some amount without knowing if they'll get a bid. They think it it's worth it. People pay for services that aren't assured all the time.

So what about paying a tutor to help with a class? The tutor does not guarentee you will get an A on an exam, but they will help you to be better prepared going into that exam. I mean you can study for the LSAT, GRE, GMAT, physics, math, psych exam on your own or using free materials or free study session, but sometimes paying that extra money for a prep course or tutor is worth it. Neither option will guarentee anyting, but for some people, the confidence gained by feeling better prepared is worth the money. Maybe it gives the test taker more confidence so they do better.

Same thing for going into rush. Maybe the women who go to the paid advisor will feel more confident and more open and excel at rush. Maybe they won't. Either way, it doesn't hurt anyone and if it makes the girl more confident, then hey..it's her money!

]

That's what I was saying...

I know..I was just adding a different point:)

Well, that's true of chefs in restaurants. You could just do a little recipe research and spend a few hours in the kitchen and make the food yourself. And why go to a salon for a pedicure when with a little effort you could paint your own nails? Do you feel the same way about chefs and pedicurists that you do about these consultants?

Please go back and re-read my post. My point is that Ms. Donovan is charging for a service that is provided by the Panhellenic Council for free. My issue is why would someone pay for a service that is being provided for free of charge. Furthermore, I would think that the Greek Ambasadors would be able to give better advice on their system than a woman who has been removed from it for a while. Heck, I could market myself as a Membership Intake Process Counselor for NPHC sororities for my undergrad school, but I have been removed from my campus and chapter for a while. The only information that I would have about the other three NPHC sororities would either come from my own opinion, information from any public document or if I had an 'insider' giving me a scoop about her chapter, which is *highly* unlikely. The best person / people to ask would be those currently in the system. At least I would think so.

Also, at most Ms. Donovan can only really speak about her org. I don't know her affiliation, but lets say she is an ABC. How can she counsel (advise) for DEF, GH, PQR, ST and XYZ? She was not a member of all of those orgs, so her information about them I'm sure is limited.


Paying an application fee is one thing. That is a stipulation in order for your application to be processed and reviewed. Based on my knowledge of NPC application process, there is no stipulation to pay to seek the advice of a Recruitment Counselor in order to particiapte in the recruitment process. You sign up and go, and hopefully at the end of the process receive a bid. Whether the PNM paid for advice, or received any advice at all is not a requirement before she joins a sorority.

Well, I guess yes because I do know of people who do this.

Don't we (GLO members on GC) advise people who come on here and ask a bunch of questions about an org to do their own research at their own school? I mean, is it that hard? Oh, wait, for some it is.

That's all I'm saying. It really does not take much effort to 'google' a group, make a phone call to the greek life office, attend a 'meet the greeks', get to know greeks in your classes. All of this can be done for free. And, to tell you the truth, one of the best ways that I have seen people make it into their org of choice (NPHC, NPC, IFC, etc.) has been by the last method I mentioned. The PNM got to know the members of the org by being in the same class, involved in similar groups and activites on campus. By the time the next recruitment came around that person made it in. It is not a sure thing, but I've seen it work in alot of cases. All done for no money charged.

Please go back and READ MY POST. I read yours. Ms. Donovan can say things the Greek Ambassadors cannot. She can say "BE sure and tell XYZ your dad is a doctor, they are very concerned about financial status." Greek Ambassadors could not say that.

The methods you are listing work well for NPHC orgs - but on a campus like Vanderbilt, you really need to go through recruitment as a freshman to be successful. You don't have time to get to know everyone first.

Yes, but couldn't the PNM just ask someone familiar with the chapter? At one of my friend's high school, her senior year some women from different NPC sororities gave a presentation at her school. That was an opportunity for hs women who wanted to rush to get some info. Also, I remember from my freshman year of college, I went to 'Fish Camp', a week long orientation camp for incoming fresman and one of the counselors offered to talk to young women who wanted to rush.

And, if a chapter is that superficial why would you want to join it? I would think that at a school like Vanderbilt, money is really not an issue in terms of what your dad does to imply how much money he makes.

And, I would presume a rec letter is important. So a young woman would have to know someone from the org and/or the particular chapter to get a letter. Wouldn't the rec writer provide some inside info?

Yes, I'm still looking for the 'free' options. ;)

ETA: You proved my point about her counseling service. She can only tell you things like that, or like, XYZ likes tall athletic girls with red hair. In the end the PNM and the chapter have to make a sincere connection.

I think this is what causes frustration in the recruitment process beacuse the PNM hears stuff like this and the PNM thinks, 'Hey, my dad is a doctor, they have to give me a bid'. Then the PNM goes bidless and she comes on here wondering why she did not get a bid since she was told that XYZ picks women who's dad is a doctor. And we all know what a tangled mess those threads become.

Shoot, we should form a national consulting group. There are enough of us in the rush forum to get going!

GC Consulting, LLP?

Re: Vanderbilt: Panhell presidents oppose sorority recruitment consultant
 

It took me a minute to realize that the "Hustler" is the name of the Vandy newspaper. Until that hit me, I was thinking we had an independent consultant who really didn't know how to reach her target demographic.

Answers from Amy Donovan!
 

Hi all,

Amy Donovan here, the president of Sorority Recruitment Consulting in Nashville. I just stumbled across this forum, and am thrilled to see that it is generating discussion.

I'd love to answer any questions you might have. First though, let me answer some of the questions that I've seen repeated many times in the posts.

Yes, I am a Vandy graduate (magna cum laude, 2004) and yes, I am a member of a sorority. I try to keep my particular sorority affiliation somewhat quiet, as I don't want my PNM clients to develop strong feelings for or against my sorority based on their consultation with me.

I pledged in Spring 2001, and was elected to the Panhellenic Executive Board in Spring 2002 as the Scholarship Chair, then in 2003, I was elected as the President of Panhellenic.

My website is www.sorority-recruitment-consulting.com

Hope this general information helps out a bit, and I'd love to get some feedback and comments from you all. It's great to hear what current and past sorority members are saying about it. Needless to say, it's causing quite a stir at Vanderbilt!

the link doesnt seem to be working for me.

Take out the period at the end and it should work.

Re: Answers from Amy Donovan!
 

I can see why the Vanderbilt NPC presidents are upset - you rip into them pretty hard with respect to the GAs. But, I guess you have to give your company some kind of angle to attract customers......

I think your being a Panhell president at one time and using that information to promote what you know about each org is an abuse of power. Yeah, I'm sure you were privvy to what went on in the other orgs, but it seems like you are selling that information. Shouldn't that info that you acquired being the Panhell pres kept confidential?

How do you keep current with what is going on with each chapter? Do you have informants? (Just asking, no need to answer)

So what kind of return rate can a PNM expect from her investment in your services? Can she expect to make it through all of the rounds and get a bid?

Are you a licensed counselor? What do you do if a girl 'wigs out' because things are not happening the way she thought?

I'm asking these questions because: 1. Maybe this is a way for former undergrad chapter members to contribute back to the system, and 2. Since you are doing this for profit, how does an investor, the PNM, ensure some kind of return for her investment?

amy, i think that your service sounds like it could help everyone, but especially those girls who may not have a relative or close friend that is a sorority member. having served as a panhellenic officer will help you look at the potential new member panhellenically. after all, your goal is to help your client discover if greek life is for them, and to help them have the most successful and satisfying experience possible. best wishes for much success to you and your clients.

Re: Re: Vanderbilt: Panhell presidents oppose sorority recruitment consultant
 

glad to see I'm not the only one who thought that...

Thanks for taking the time to read through my website and give me feedback/comments. Also, thanks to everyone who sent me individual emails. I hope I replied to everyone, and if not, I'll get to you!

In response to some of the newer posted questions:

I don't see my company as an "abuse of power." FSUZeta's post is in sync with my business aims. I made this company to benefit the girls who feel overwhelmed by recruitment and confused because they don't have a Greek mother/sister/friend who can casually advise them.

When I was a freshman, I would have greatly benefitted from such a service. I was born and raised in Boston, attended public schools, and had never visited the South until I came to Vanderbilt as a prospective student. Vandy is a predominantly Southern, conversative and very wealthy university, and as a Northerner, I knew nothing of sororities. I was shy, and didn't want to let my Southern friends and roommates know how nervous I was about Rush.

We did have GAs/PXs, but there was 1 GA assigned to roughly 15-20 PNMs, and we would meet out once a month or so, and I was certainly not going to stand up in front of 20 people and say, "I know nothing about sororities. Can you fill me in?"

As for confidential information - confidential is confidential. Anything that I learned confidentially through my own chapter or through Panhellenic will be kept that way. However, as the Panhellenic President, you create many relationships with members of all sororities, instead of predominantly making friends within your own, so I know extensive info about each chapter. Also, spending time with sorority presidents gives you tons of sorority-specific, non-confidential knowledge. Most chapter members know a lot about their chapter alone, while my Greek knowledge base is quite broad, sorority-wise.

I am not a licensed therapist/counselor, and for that reason, I spoke with the Director of the Psychological and Counseling Center at Vandy before starting any consultations. We agreed that I would recommend for PNMs to contact them if they were experiencing psychological/emotional distress. I am a consultant and an advisor, not a therapist or psychologist, and the PNMs know that.

There is no guarantee made to the PNMs when they come to see me. I liked the tutor comparison that someone made earlier. You pay the math tutor to sit and explain everything to you in depth. However, that doesn't guarantee you an A on the exam. The only guarantee is access to more direct, individual information than you would get otherwise.

I'm going to take a break, but will reply to more questions later!

Thank you for addressing some of my questions. Still not sure on some points, but thanks.