the life and times of gay fraternity brothers
 

Gay Greek life 101
New book focuses on the life and times of gay fraternity brothers

By KATHERINE VOLIN - Washington Blade
Friday, September 30, 2005


NOT EVERYONE ACKNOWLEDGES this in college, but we all know there are gay men in fraternities. Openly gay or in the closet, they are there living their lives like everyone else.

Shane Windmeyer’s proof is in the publishing of two books on this topic.

Windmeyer, a 32-year-old resident of Charlotte, N.C., came out to his fraternity brothers 11 years ago, while he was a junior at Emporia State University in Emporia, Kan. His positive experience as a gay man in a fraternity led him in 1995 to found the Lambda 10 Project, an educational organization he operates for gay, lesbian and bisexual fraternity and sorority members.

Windmeyer also edited two books on the subject: “Out on Fraternity Row: Personal Accounts of Being Gay in a College Fraternity,” in 1998, and his new book, “Brotherhood: Gay Life in College Fraternities,” which is to be released Oct. 1.

“Brotherhood” examines the roles of homophobic hazing, religion, sexual experimentation, among other topics pertaining to fraternity life. The book is comprised of a collection of first-hand accounts.

Windmeyer is scheduled to read from the new book tonight at Lambda Rising.

Washington Blade: Certainly, some fraternities have the reputation of being homophobic. What made you want to join one?

Shane Windmeyer: Well, I wasn’t out at the time. I was very much in the closet. It was back in 1992 when I actually joined the fraternity. In many ways, subconsciously, I think men joined frats to get rid of their sexuality, to hide their gayness.

I was looking for an opportunity to be normal, to be accepted, so joining a fraternity was probably the most heterosexist thing I could do in college.
Blade: Do you think other gay men join fraternities for the same reasons?

Windmeyer: Oh, definitely. When I first came out, there was definitely a theme of men joining fraternities as a way of coping with their sexuality, of dealing with their gayness. That was part of the denial. Even in my new book, ‘Brotherhood,’ that’s still a [subtle]

theme. However, there are new issues that build on [this] theme.

Blade: What are those new issues?

Windmeyer: Some of the new issues are kind of taboo issues or startling issues that are sort of reminders of where we still are in our society. Many guys rushing now are not hiding their sexuality [and then don’t get in fraternities] because of that gay label.

The other issue, which is prevalent, is that they are outed in the rush process.

The men who rush openly gay, they [tag them with] a gay label; they don’t know him as an individual, as a person, as a gay brother.

The other larger issue that we sometimes forget about is that men ages 18-24 are very sexually active, and there’s no reason why gay men 18-24 are not as sexually active as their straight counterparts.

What if I fall in love with a brother? What if we are sexually active, is that good for the brotherhood?

Those are questions that we need to be dealing with over the next 10 years.

Blade: Kansas has a reputation for being a conservative state. Do you think that environment made it more difficult for you to come out?

Windmeyer: Oh, definitely. I went to school at Emporia State. There were not any out gay people on campus, other than this one guy who was a theater major. He wore this skirt and striped stockings as he biked across campus. He had a little bag that said “Boy Toy” on the side. He was a great guy, but I was like, ‘God, if I’m that, that’s not me.’

Blade: You say that coming out to your fraternity was one of your most rewarding undergraduate experiences. Why is that?

Windmeyer: It really helped me develop as a man, and that’s what fraternities really are about is bringing men together. It helped me understand who I was.

If I had waited until after I left and graduated from college, they wouldn’t have known me as Shane in all my respects.

Luckily for me, my fraternity accepted me without any question. And for1994 that was really something. It’s because of straight men. Straight men are the ones who gave me the respect and pride to be gay today and be proud of that.

George W. Bush was in a fraternity, and granted he was in a fraternity 20 years before I was, but imagine politicians in fraternities with gay men. And fraternities, like it or not, turn out a large degree of our leaders in business and politicians today.

Blade: Are there accounts of gay sexual encounters in the book?

Windmeyer: At the end of the book, we actually asked some questions about sexual experimentation and whether that’s something we should be concerned about. In one chapter, “Questions of Love and Loyalty,” there are six stories that have some steamy accounts of men who fall in love.

This kind of caught my eye. I don't doubt that this may be the case in some instances...but I see this as implying that many men join frats to hide being gay. That's something that I have a very hard time believing.

I really hate to see gay men being sold this bill of goods, i.e. the subliminal suggestion that if they reveal themselves or "come out" to their fraternity brothers then all will be welcoming and forgiving.
Just about the only place I can see this happening is in a chapter that is uncompetitive and low ranking already. I have seen recently on the campus where I live the effects of a fraternity pledging men who were either openly homosexual, or found out to be that way. Their rivals are unmerciful, and the members are violently split in their reactions. The individual gay members then become lightening rods for anything bad that happens.
The truth is - in spite of what the popular media implies is the norm - healthy young heterosexual college men traditionally do not want close association with open homos within the confines of a fraternity house, and are extremely uncomfortable with it.
When I ws an undergraduate, we had members in the chapter that we suspected were homosexual, but we never asked, and they had the good grace and fraternalism to play the manly role while they were in school. It's a matter of getting along and not making your friends uncomfortable.
I think Coramoor is right: gay men join fraternities for the same reason the rest of us do: friendship, social outlets, networks, acceptance of peers. If revealing their behavior is going to cause trouble, they should recognize that and simply remain quiet.

I thank God that Otterbein isn't anything like this. Every single fraternity, the largest, the smallest, the oldest and the youngest, ALL have gay men (openly so) in them. All are given the same rights as brothers, some live in their houses and find it a very comfortable place to bond with their brothers. A good portion of the sororities also have lesbian members, who are still treated exactly the same. A member is a member, and honestly, I don't think that homophobia has any place in my bylaws or sorority. If chapter members want to start fights and create internal problems over admitting a certain member ...they can turn in their pins and hit the road, no loss to us. I'd rather have the rest of the campus laugh at us for accepting a gay member than reject the sisterhood, friendship, and service that she would offer. And asking her to deny who she for sake of some stupid tier system is asking her to be half a member. Our motto set down by our founders damn near 90 years ago says "And This Above All, To Thine Own Self Be True", and I'm not going to have our 103 year old founder coming after us for going against that motto. Ain't doin' it. We bid girls for EVERYTHING they are, not what everyone thinks they should be.

</soapbox>

those are your feelings and that is fine and they are valid. firehouse and coramoor shared their feelings and that is fine too and their feelings are also valid. everyone is entitled to their own opinion and sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.

Anyone who can't accept their brother for who they are doesn't really need to be in a fraternity at all.

I have to post on this because one of my closest college friends is gay. He got a bid to his fraternity, one of the most competetive. When they found out, it was not a big deal, he was still treated exactly the same. If anything, more girls went there because he was friends with all of them. Now, I don't see why a Fraternity would not want more girls going to their parties?? My school is small, but the male greek system is OLD! We have a lot of the earliest chapters at F&M, a strong history of brotherhood. Now, his brothers took him in, and accepted the knowledge that he was gay, ALL OF THEM DID! He did not have to play a role, and I question if a brotherhood is true if a brother is not able to accept each and every brother, and they feel they have to "play a manly role"...I feel sorry for the people that cannot accept a person for who they are.

Are they accepting him as a brother or as a tool to get more women to come around?

Not the same thing.

If you consider that fraternities have traditionally been the ultimate "heterosexual college male experience," joining fraternities to conform to a hetero-masculine standard doesn't seem unrealistic in a large percentage of cases across the country.

They did not use him as a tool...he didn't go around saying "I'm a ______ brother!! Come to this house" and the brothers didn't say anything about it either. It wasn't even a common topic of conversation. Many people did not know for a long time, even though he was open about it. I simply used it as a response to people saying they would not want an openly gay brother in their fraternity, and how it didn't/doesn't hurt the image. Plus, you do not "use" your friends as tools...but that's just my opinion.

Well, actually you stated "If anything, more girls went there because he was friends with all of them. Now, I don't see why a Fraternity would not want more girls going to their parties." That's why I asked. You said he was friends with a bunch of the females.

I know people who aren't gay but were accepted because their membership could possibly benefit the chapter in some (often superficial) way. I don't want to get off topic but I think issues of acceptance, diversity, and tolerance should be looked at critically. :)

Isn't it better in general to be friends with the guys that know all the girls, straight or gay?

Is that the motivation/foundation of the friendship or interaction?

not at all, the guy could be a complete asshole and not worthy of a second of my friendship. On the otherhand we all have those friends that bring the girls with um, and it's nice to have them around, was all i was sayin.

I love this thread!

we have no gays, are the top tier at UT, and have no problem with girls coming over.

I agree, there are no chapters with open homosexuals on my campus, and we're probably one of the top schools in the country for greek life....that being said, regarding the comment of accepting a brother for who he is... I can see what you're saying if the brother comes out. However, if it is in the bidding/pledging process, he's not my brother anyway.

couldn't have said it better. he's not my brother till he makes it all the way through. i just love when people criticize you on here for not promoting gays in your own chapter or not giving them bids. its the same as top chapters not giving bids to blacks or minorities. fraternities are privagte organizations and secret societies....we don't have to give a bid to anyone, nor are we at any legal fault for not doing so. its the same as not allowing women to be members of Augusta National

And the fact is, people think its just racism, or just homophobia. Granted, I think homosexuality is wrong, but there is far more to it than that. Fraternities should be groups of men with common ideals and interests. I generally do not share common interests with the large majority of black men on my campus, nor do I share many interests or ideals with gays.

Hmm, just wondering, many say that once a gay individual becomes a member, it would be ok because they're already a member.

But wouldn't you feel slightly tricked & betrayed if after the fact (after all you've gone through to bond & get to know each other), you find out that you're new brother or sister is homosexual (or bisexual)?

And even then, doesn't that mean you shared common ideals & interests EXCEPT which sex you wish to spend the rest of your life with?

Well I guess it depends on the person, but liking girls is a pretty popular interest in my fraternity.

Another issue that having an openly gay brother in your fraternity comes with hazing.

Whether your chapter hazes or not, when freshman rush they rush with the pre-conceived notion that they are going to be hazed. No matter how little or how much your chapter's reputation is for hazing, guys do expect it because of the stereotypes that fraternities have.

Now, if I was rushing a fraternity with an openly gay brother, my first thought is going to be...what if the gay brother tries to haze me in that way.

Again, before some idiot starts yelling about how wrong I am-I am simply saying how many freshman are going to view the situation.

The end effect is that it is going to cripple your recruitment. Maybe on your campus the top frats/sororities do have openly gay memebers and then again maybe we have different standards as to what qualifies a chapter being the best.

Are you fucking joking?

Good lord I'm glad I live in the South.

no kidding

That's funny. What that poster was describing occurs at quite a few Southern campuses.

Solution: Fraternities should stop recruiting village idiots. Not necessarily you, but those freshmen.

"Liking boys" is probably more popular than you know. Men aren't automatically heterosexual just because they talk about "liking girls" or having sex with "girls."

The overarching theme in this discussion is how young and stereotypically "fratboyish" some of you sound. ;)

Well its not a pevalent theme in our chapter or any of my friend's chapters here or at different schools. Just because a bunch of fruity Betas want to pledge a bunch of homos doesn't mean that other fraternities should be bunched in the same group. Also, I don't know any guys who talk about banging girls that are not heterosexual. I think shinerbock is in the same situation that I am in.

Furthermore, I am young and in a top fraternity and I really don't give a flying f*uck what you have to say about it. However, The fact that I don't condone some fag being given a bid on issues ranging from moral to practical doesn't make me stereotypical

Is that you starang? Or are you also incapable of putting multiple quotes into one post?

No one said anything about a theme. Unless it is an organization whose purpose is geared toward sexuality, (hetero or homo)sexuality shouldn't be a theme in any of our organizations. Best believe that some of the men you call brothers aren't as heterosexual as you assume them to be.

You are stereotypical because you appear to be the posterboy for the (heterosexual male and hegemonic) "good ol boy" network that many fraternities are based upon. And you make no apologies for that. ;)

Don't you have a pole to hump?

Besides, I hate multiple quote posts.

No... just a shockingly large moron :rolleyes:

1 - if you think that everone who talks about "banging girls" is straight... well then, that says alot about either your judging of people based soley on the image they present, or the fact that you are pretty darn gulible.

2 - the general close-minded arrogance and stupidity you present by falling back on your "i'm in a top fraternity" crap ~ who the f*ck cares? and how the hell is that a defense for being a bigotted jackass?

congratulations on READING the post. I said the people that I KNOW that think like that are in no way gay...I didnt say EVERYONE....try again sport.

I was also not falling back on anthing, I was referring to a comment that was made about stereotypical "frat guys". For the love of God, don't start the racist, bigottry bullshit. There is noone in our chapter that wants to give a gay man a bid into our chapter. Being a fag is immoral, unpractical, and it goes against Christian values, something that SAE upholds.

If you want to criticize me for upholding my religious beliefs and call me a bigotted jackass.....go right ahead dipshit.

I understand your views and agree with most, however I can assure you that my brothers are as straight as it comes. At no point has one of my brothers, older, younger, whatever ever given me that notion. I don't assume.....I know.

I must agree. In spite of your conspiracy theory that there must be gays in every fraternity, I disagree. Thankfully, any who would have such intentions (I strongly suspect there are none), have not been open about it. In my opinion, and feel free to call me an a-hole or whatever, a fraternity is a group of college men with similar ideals. Not only do gay people not share my ideals, I honestly don't consider them capable of becoming fraternity men. A man in my opinion is someone who is of high character, who upholds his personal values and that of his family, country, and religion. I have yet to meet a homosexual who meets said specifications. I know, I'm a jerk and ignorant. Or perhaps, I'm just not politically correct.

Apparently you didn't get my point - the fact that there are "closeted" homosexuals that'll act like the stereotypical frat-boy and pick-up girls openly... but privately it's a completely different story.

Well your the one that loves to toss around terms like "fag" or "nigger"... so please excuse me if that doesn't strike me as both the langauge of a bigot, as well as a might un-Christian.

Oh as for homosexuality going against Christian values which you (and SAE) so dearly uphold... kinda strikes me as a little hypocritical with all your talk of banging girls... nevermind the fact that the Bible only condemns homosexual relations as immoral, much like the same way it can be said to condemn your support for hazing or promiscuity...

Finally getting to the point of your falling back on things in an effort to defend yourself - I don't fault you for having strong religious convivtions, I fault you for using your religious convinvtions to justify your bigotry or hate.


PS> Oh I'm sure SAE holds intra-Fraternal respect or honor highly... so please don't betray that by slamming other GLOs here on GC - it's both unseemly for you as a "True Gentleman" and for your Fraternity's letter to be associated with.

Nope... jerk and ignorant...

Well just as a reference for where some may be coming from....
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13

Clever response, I like how you backed it up. Ignorance implies lack of knowledge, which I would love to see you test. Jerk perhaps, but my comments are not in spite, but nearly a result of personal logic and beliefs.