Bill Bennett on Black Crime Rates
 

On his radio call in show, former Regan Education Secretary Bill Bennett had this to say about decreasing the crime rate:

:eek:

Re: Bill Bennett on Black Crime Rates
 

Cite? I'm not necessarily disputing that he said it, I just want to see the conversation that lead to this.

While I am SHOCKED that he said that, sadly his "idea" may not be full of it. I'm not trying to turn this into a pro-life/pro choice debate, but according to the Center's for Disease Control (non-partisan and no slant) , blacks are having abortions at twice the rate of any other groups. I know there are tons of contributing factors to that, but the fact remains - we are.


Legal abortions

In 2000
White - 16.7
Black or Af Am - 50.3
Hispanic - 22.5
Not Hispanic - 25.2

In 2001
White - 16.5
Black or Af Am - 49.1
Hispanic - 23
Not Hispanic - 23.3


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus04trend.pdf#016
(go to page 60 for all the detail)

So while I want to immediately say that he's talking crazy, the conspiracy theorist in me pauses for a moment.......

ETA: to fix my graph

If we aborted EVERY baby [read Black, white, pink, green, whatever] then the crime rate would go down. Less people born =less criminals born........period.

His including the race part just made it a soundbite (and either displayed his own prejudices or reliance on statistics which may or may not be accurate that tell us that Black Americans commit more crimes when in actuality we really just get prosecuted and investigated more vigorously).

You got the first part right.

Now the other part is if you aborted the children of poor people, the crime rate would go down.

Race is yet another factor.

Yes I understand it's disturbing to even think someone might find this acceptable, but it's a topic that's been very much investigated quantitatively.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

-Rudey

Rudey pointed out most of what I was going to say, but I want to point out that there may very well be causation/correlation issues at work here - but the second part must be considered separate from the first (quantification may not be possible).

Audio clip here

We can all just agree to disagree. I don't think aborting poor or Black people would make any of the following go down:

Extortion
Money Laundering
Coke usage
Heroin usage
Murder for hire
Tax Fraud
EVERY CRIME DADDY'S MONEY GETS DISMISSED

So, it basically goes back to how you define crime which to me goes back to the personal prejudices I spoke about earlier. So because I highly doubt you even thought of any of these crimes before you affirmed the "statistics" that Blacks commit more crimes we can, as I said before, agree to disagree.

Your assumptions regarding my mindstate notwithstanding, I would really like to hear what you're basing your feelings on - statistics? Figures? Do you have studies that disprove the statistics you're deriding?

My mindset is not set in stone - I view this only from the statistical end, and realize the limitations of statistics. However, if you can prove another side, I'm more than willing to accept that side, because I'll admit that I know very little about the subject.

So convince me, and we can agree to agree.

Email Bill:

http://www.bennettmornings.com/programhighlights

Here is something:

While it does not explicitly address the crimes I mentioned, other than money laundering and embezzlement, it definitely makes the point that I was trying to.http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-poorcrime.htm

ETA: if my assumption that you had not thought about the racial disparity of the crimes I mentioned was offensive, I apologize. To offend, was not my intention. I just get sick of people assuming that b/c I'm an American Black I'm a criminal, when in reality I can't stand a liar, let alone a thief, and am on my way to a law degree in 225 days (can you tell I'm excited?).

For more info on my detest of theft check out the FL and gun thread.

OK - I see where this is coming from much more clearly. Thanks.

The difference comes in how we're defining 'crime' for all intents and purposes. Most crime statistics view each crime as a discrete event, rather than viewing global outcomes (such as total amount stolen, or total deaths) then breaking them down into categories based on socioeconomic status or race.

My issue with using 'global' measures is that it does not accurately account for how the actions take place. It essentially shifts the burden to "the rich therefore the white" rather than "the poor therefore the black" - and I think either assumption is unsound from a causative standpoint. It's also somewhat disingenuous, to my mind, but that's just an opinion.

No offense taken - I've put considerable thought into the disparities you've mentioned. While I can't comiserate or understand your anger at racist assumptions, I do see where you're coming from. I can also see where you'd assume I viewed things another way - but that assumption is short-sighted, which is why I'd like to have this kind of discussion.

I just want to make sure we're not inadvertantly affirming things that are not true, or denying things that may be useful to study, due to emotion, if that makes sense.

Race isn't a factor. If you aborted all white or hispanic or asian or black children ( :confused: :eek: :mad: at aborting any children - but that's another thread) crime would go down.
If you aborted all the children of rich people crime would go down. If you exterminated any particular group of people - yeeeaaaars later - crime would go down.

Sidebar: Considering the fact that crime has gone down (http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/gazette/2...istics-fbi.php) , but poverty has gone up (http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/pover...4/pov04hi.html), is it safe to say the poor aren't the ones committing the most crimes?

I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at, but this is already proven and it's not up for conjecture... Levitt talks about it in Freakonomics.

-Rudey

This appears to be another case where some known conservative mentioned black people, abortion, and crime in one sentence, and enemies try to make some huge thing out of it. These people operate the PC police.

These enemies, the PC police, care not that he fully declared that it was not his desire, and said that it would be reprehensible. No apology is ever accepted. Resignation is the only acceptable response.

Decent people listen and consider the whole thought, and ignore the PC police who are running amuck - on this forum, on campus, and in the media branch of the Democratic party.

Al and his Air America buddies - assuming they will be able to pay their bills and stay on the air for another day - will have a field day.

On the other hand, if Jesse or Farraquan or Byrd make some anti-semetic or biased comment (remember hymey town?, remember the bombs under the NO levies?) the PC police and their media wing sweep it under the rug.

What does "hymey town" and "bombs under the NO levies" mean? :confused:

I've never heard of whatever those are so so can someone enlighten me. :( Just trying to make a connection between that and the OP.

Oh My God @ the audio clip of this man's statement.

I don't care what you (and the you's know who I am referring to) say in defense of this guy, there is no reason under the SUN for him to have even mentioned anything about black babies in that particular discussion. No reason whatsoever. All he did was express his view that there is an automatic correlation between black people and crime. I know that is how plenty of people feel in this country, so whatever, but I don't want to hear any uproar when people like Kanye and others come out with their opinions either.

Actually, no - global decreases in crime can come from a variety of sources. The real test would be whether the percentage of total crimes committed by the impoverished has dropped versus previous - this would imply (although not prove) causation.

If you're talking about me, we have some things to discuss.

I'm sorry but I haven't seen that many people defending that hatemongering a**hole Luis FarraKhan and nor his f**ked up diatribes. It's relatively simple to call a f*cking bigot a bigot when you drop the party politics... try it some time.

If the poor became middle class there might be less crime also . . but its easier to kill babies.

The first part is a good idea, if near impossible.....

The EASY thing to do is very often not the RIGHT thing to do.

No we don't.

OH SNAP!

-Rudey

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/...nts/index.html

Bennett under fire for remarks on blacks, crime

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Congressional Democrats blasted former Education Secretary William Bennett on Thursday for saying that aborting "every black baby in this country" would reduce the crime rate, and demanded their Republican counterparts do the same.

"This is precisely the kind of insensitive, hurtful and ignorant rhetoric that Americans have grown tired of," said Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Illinois.

Bennett, who held prominent posts in the administrations of former presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush, told a caller to his syndicated radio talk show Wednesday: "If you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose -- you could abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would go down.

"That would be an impossibly ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down," he said.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-California, called on President Bush to condemn the comments by Bennett, who was anti-drug chief in Bush's father's administration.

"What could possibly have possessed Secretary Bennett to say those words, especially at this time?" Pelosi asked. "What could he possibly have been thinking? This is what is so alarming about his words."

Bennett stood by his comments Thursday night.

"I was putting forward a hypothetical proposition. Put that forward. Examined it. And then said about it that it's morally reprehensible. To recommend abortion of an entire group of people in order to lower your crime rate is morally reprehensible. But this is what happens when you argue that the ends can justify the means," he told CNN.

"I'm not racist, and I'll put my record up against theirs," referring to Pelosi and other critics. "I've been a champion of the real civil rights issue of our times -- equal educational opportunities for kids."

"We've got to have candor and talk about these things while we reject wild hypotheses," Bennett said.

"I don't think people have the right to be angry, if they look at the whole thing. But if they get a selective part of my comment, I can see why they would be angry. If somebody thought I was advocating that, they ought to be angry. I would be angry."

"But that's not what I advocate."

Asked if he owed people an apology, Bennett replied, "I don't think I do. I think people who misrepresented my view owe me an apology."

Bennett served as Reagan's chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities from 1981-1985 and secretary of education from 1985-1988. From 1989-1990, he served as "drug czar" in the administration of the elder Bush.

Rush called on "my friends, the responsible Republicans" to rebuke the former Cabinet official by backing a House resolution condemning his remarks as "outrageous racism of the most bigoted and ignorant kind."

"Where is the indignation from the GOP, as one of their prominent members talk about aborting an entire race of Americans as a way of ridding this country of crime?" asked Rush, a former Black Panther. "How ridiculous! How asinine! How insane can one be?"

He called instead for "aborting" Republican policies "which have hurt the disadvantaged, the poor, average Americans for the benefit of large corporations."

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid said he was "appalled" by Bennett's remarks.

"The Republican Party has recently taken great pains to reach out to the African-American community, and I hope that they will be swift in condemning Mr. Bennett's comments as nothing short of callous and ignorant," said Reid, D-Nevada.

And Bruce Gordon, president and CEO of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, demanded an apology from Bennett and the Salem Radio Network, which airs his radio program.

"In 2005, there is no place for the kind of racist statement made by Bennett," Gordon said in a written statement. "While the entire nation is trying to help survivors, black and white, to recover from the damage caused by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, it is unconscionable for Bennett to make such ignorant and insensitive comments."

A man who answered the phone at the network said no one would be available to comment until Friday.

Bennett's 1993 repackaging of traditional morality tales, "The Book of Virtues," became a bestseller, and Bennett became a popular lecturer on moral issues. But in 2003, stung by news reports that he had lost millions of dollars in Las Vegas and Atlantic City over the last decade, he publicly renounced gambling and vowed to stay away from the slots from then on.

He is a Fox News contributor and chairman of "Americans for Victory over Terrorism," which his Web site calls "a project dedicated to sustaining and strengthening public opinion as the war on terrorism moves forward."

I "agree". Black folks don't commit more crimes. They are just prosecuted for more crimes by racist law enforcement. We should abort all the white people. Then we would have a great economy, free of crime, like in Africa.


Why was the Black family the first family eliminated from The Amazing Race?

Do any of you really, seriously, and honestly believe that this man could have it in his heart to kill black babies or do you believe he made a comment that upsets people?

Obviously it's not the first given what he said in the same discussion:

''But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down,'' said Bennett, author of ''The Book of Virtues.''

He went on to call that ''an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down.

I'm still waiting for someone to discuss the proven link of abortions among the poor and lowered crime. Is that classist/elitist even if it's true? If you replace poor with black is that racist?

-Rudey

useless posts for 1000, alex.

option b

I hate, hate, hate when people refer to fetuses as "babies" :mad:

I am inclined to agree with you here, but that is a can of worms that is probably better left closed on a place like GC.

This needs to be touched up just a tad. The issue that Levitt brings up in Freakonomics is not simply poor people. There are many more factors in place than simply Socioeconomic status.

If I remember correctly, (the book is out in my car and I don't feel like getting it), what is more specifically argued is that the women who are most likely to get an abortion, are also the most likely to have characteristics of mothers that lead to an increased level of delinquency. These women who are most likely to get an abortion are more likely to be young, single, uneducated, substance abusers, victims of abuse and so forth. Socioeconomic status is only one piece of that puzzle.

Levitt doesn't go far into how these are things that predict higher levels of crime,(if I remember correctly), but I graduated with a degree in Sociology, so I have heard and seen plenty on this topic including a full 300 level course just on Juvenile Delinquency.

Each of these factors is a predictor for juvenile delinquency or is a predictor for lowered levels of things like "attachment" to their children which is associated with higher levels of crime (how attached would you expect someone to be to an unwanted child). Further, their position in life is more likely to make them live in areas with heightened crime rates, which in turn increases the likelihood of crime participation.

Because this is a complex issue, with many facets, I don't think that one can simply boil it down to a case of rich vs. poor (unlike a lot of other things.)

White House condemns Bennett's remarks
Posted on Fri, Sep. 30, 2005

Associated Press


WASHINGTON - The White House on Friday criticized former Education Secretary William Bennett for remarks linking the crime rate and the abortion of black babies.

"The president believes the comments were not appropriate," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

Read the rest here

If anything regarding abortions came out, I bet the white house would condemn it...

-Rudey

I think the whole economy of Nigeria is based on phony letters and emails, seeking to trick gulible people out of their bank account numbers, and their money.

I've also heard that Egypt has a lot of anti-tourist crime.

And then there are the dictators commiting crimes against humanity.

Africa is no paradise and is not crime free.

PS: I apologize for my earlier post. Al Franken actually was on Bennett's side on today's AA show. His (I'll laugh at anything you say, Al) sidekick was very critical though.

May have been the first opposing view ever heard on Al's show, maybe even on all of AA.

uhhh, i don't think i said that.

One time they intercepted a huge bunch of letters from the Nigerian bunch to "prospects", and even the stamps on the letters were counterfeits.