advise needed . . .
 

SO my pledge brother and best friend recently "came out" to the entire house. I love this guy like I would any brother of mine. He is an outstanding individual and a great asset to the house. However, some guys are having a difficult time in dealing with this, and yet, I doubt those same guys have stopped to think of how he's dealing with it all . . . Has anyone else dealt with this shit? ? ? ?

something like this just takes time... the brothers who are taking it hard just need time, it is an issue they probably have not dealt with extensively so this is a reality shock. 9 times out of 10, they come around. It will be rocky for a while, but they just need to see that he is the same person as he was before

my point exactly
 

thanx man, that's exactly what I'm trying to let everyone know.

We had a pledge come out just before Beta Week and since I graduated, at least 5 other guys came out (at some point, undergrad or graduated). When you're 18/19/20 years old, frat guy with nothing but chicks/partying on your mind, they'll likely not undestand. When they 'grow up' a bit, they'll realize it's not a big deal. Gay or not, it doesn't (shouldn't) matter.

All you have to remind people is that he is an asset to the chapter. He brings diversity to the group, and is no lesser of a person for it.

Beta does not discriminate. He should be welcomed like any other.

Word.

Yeah, it's always an interesting situation when something like that happens. One of the brothers actually came out during a chapter meeting about 3 years before I pledged. No one really saw it coming. I go to a pretty conservative school, but over time people learned to deal with it. It takes some people longer than others, for me meeting gay people took a good bit of adjusting to because I had never known any while growing up. Honestly, they can end up being an asset over time though, because if you think about it, tons of chicks will show up wanting to chill with the gay dude.

I think every chapter will, and should IMO, deal with this issue at some point in their history. Our chapter has dealt with it from day one because two of our founding fathers were openly homosexual. I think our culture is a little different because we have been exposed to it from the word go, but other chapters I can see might have some difficulties. I agree with the others completely. It may take some time for others to get over the initial shock, but these days I think we are all a bit more willing to accept them than if it had happened 30 years ago.

yup yup
 

thats real brotherhood . . . any out guys active right now ? I think hearing all this from someone who has already gone through it would be best for him.

Our chapter currently has two actives (and one advisor) that are currently "out" in regards to their sexual orientation. In our view, it doesn't matter which gender you prefer, it's how you present yourself and how you portray the goals/values of Beta. We found that approaching it from that point of view helped best. If the guys contribute something worthwhile to the chapter, then their personal lives should have nothing to do with it. The main obstacle we faced was overcoming what we thought the other GLO's on our campus would think... little did we know that the other groups had their own identical situations.

I guess I'll take the other side.

I really don't care what people do, but a gay guy probably wouldn't be welcome in my chapter.

Fraternities appeal to certain people and that appeal usually isn't what a gay is looking for. I'm starting to understand why some Beta chapters are having number problems. Being in a fraternity carries a certain image. If your frat doesn't have that image, a lot of times quality social guys don't even check it out.

As far as I'm concerned, Beta isn't a charity to give everyone a chance.

HOLY SH** i dont know how to even approach this... THATS AWFUL... for one, not all homosexuals follow the 'sterotype' and most times you cant even tell. Its likely you have one in your chapter right now, he is just scare sh**less to practice confidence and trust with his brothers cause you guys have that sort of attitude

Secondly I would have a fraternity of all gay men, then have a guy who refuses to be in a fraternity with only one or two gay men. Being gay is not some devilish rebel that would put the fraternity to shame, it is who the guys are...
It doesnt matter their sexual orientation, as long as they live up to the prinicpals of Beta Theta Pi. I can not believe you are blaming our recruitment problems because we have homosexuals in our chapters.

I'm just pointing out things I've noticed. Also, I am not blaming recruitment problems on having gay members.

For one, I have met guys from chapters that I would in no way be associated with outside the fraternity. I'm not saying any of you or anything, I don't know you for one. Just a few guys that I've met in real life on various Beta retreats and road trips.

Is there a gay guy in my chapter? I don't know, maybe maybe not. It does carry a stigma. Right or wrong, it is there.

Statistically, your fucked bro. It would be way naive of you to believe that everyone in your chapter is straight . . . and if you're trying to say that you would rather they hide their orientation and surpress a huge part of their lives, well forgive me for not seeing to brotherhood in that .

and as far as recruitment goes . . .dude nevermind , lol, no comment.

you're that off.

My hope for you Coramoor is that one of your good buddies comes out, cause your views need to change

Like I said, I don't know if there is or not.

woah, dudes. I ditto a.e.B.O.T.

Secondly, as for "For one, I have met guys from chapters that I would in no way be associated with outside the fraternity." it's not a Beta thing, its a greek thing. Cuz, chances are, if you were to go to a different school and do it all over again, you'd likely not be a Beta. I know I can say that for schools I have been to....

Anyway, gay or not, discrimination has no place in Beta...none-the-less the Greek World.

Time to smell the cookies. Not sure of your family size, but it's likely you have someone in your family that might be gay, or likely in your chapter, or someone in your close circle of friends. Time to deal with it.

Again, I disagree.

Beta has to discriminate. I've seen chapters on my campus that do not discriminate and they take anyone that walks in their door.

What happens to them?

They keep getting worse. They are the joke of the campus and probably will never be able to get rid of that rep.

However, chapters that only take the best of what walks into their house will remain strong and attract other quality men. Enjoy good relations with sororities, achieve numbers, be more active on campus, have more money to participate in events, etc.

I'd take 5 quality men, over a class of 20 medicore.

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE... 100% with everything you just said. What I dont get is how you think someone being gay makes them 'medicore'... A few of our best guys are homosexual. They live up to the beta name true and true and give 110%... in FACT, one of them was beta of the week by the national fraternity.

Homosexuality is not a disease, it is not a 'bad habit.' it is not a sin.

You're right, somewhat. We do have to 'discriminate' during rush/pledging. Meaning, we take guys that are top-notch and are assets to the chapter, not liabilities.

Being gay (or black, or asian, or tall, or fat...etc.) has nothing to do with that.

It is my opinion that if a man is worthy of membership, then he should be given a bid. Gay men are attracted to fraternity life for most of the same reasons as str8 guys, exception being girls. They can be the greatest asset to your chapter. All I can say is look at the charter of a man not at emoitional attactments.

So I started this thread a while back. Since then, the attitude in my chapter has greatly improved and things are going great. Also, we had a pleadge come out to the chapter a couple weeks ago. I guess seeing an active go through it first, inspired him to come out and do the same.

^ That's great to hear!

This thread is ridiculous. I come from a southern chapter so maybe I'm a bit conservative, but let me ask you this, if you are letting in gay guys then what is the point of your chapter? What do you do when it comes time for semiformal/formal and other date functions. Do your brothers bring guys? Do you ever mix with sororities? How do they feel about the fact that you have openly gay guys in your chapters? If you believe that having gay men in your chapter is not a detriment to rush then you're kidding yourself. Why do you think the average guy joins a fraternity? The answer is to go to parties and meet girls, (not to learn what ideals by which he should live his life. If you have to join an organization to learn these ideals then your parents wasted about 18 years raising you). Why would any respectable straight guy want to join a group that actively supports having gay members. Is that going to hurt or help his chances of getting laid? I'm going to say 'hurt.'

That's quite a few questions to be answered but give it your best.

Nothing like making a post filled with hatred on Christmas day. Really, I hope you feel good about yourself when you go to church today.:rolleyes:

Merry Christmas FRATMOSPHERE, you obviously have no clue.....

PS, stay holed up in your 'Southern Chapter', we don't want you out in the real world.

The chapters that I have experience with, that also have openly gay members are usually lackluster. Problems with rush, internal problems with brotherhood, and external problems with other orgs. That's from chapters on my campus and talking to members of other Beta chapters. I won't say that's the sole reason, but it is one of them.

If you want to pledge someone and try to make some point-that's fine. I think that it opens up too many problems and in the end only hurts the chapter.

Can you answer any of those questions? That's all I'm asking.

I come from a southern chapter so maybe I'm a bit conservative, but let me ask you this, if you are letting in gay guys then what is the point of your chapter? Letting in gays has nothing to do with the point of our chapter. The point of our chapter is not 'to not let in gays'. The point of our chapter is to dominate grades, athletics, student body...etc. It has nothing to do with being gay.

What do you do when it comes time for semiformal/formal and other date functions. Do your brothers bring guys? We all bring dates. Some hetero guys go solo, most bring female dates. Gay brothers can go solo, or bring a date. We don't discriminate, so it's not a big deal.

Do you ever mix with sororities? How do they feel about the fact that you have openly gay guys in your chapters? Yes, all the time. They don't care, why would they? They're gay, so it's not like they're trying to get in the sorority girls pants. If anything, they're more annoyed by 18 year old freshman who have never 'seen it' before...

If you believe that having gay men in your chapter is not a detriment to rush then you're kidding yourself. Why do you think the average guy joins a fraternity? The answer is to go to parties and meet girls, (not to learn what ideals by which he should live his life. If you have to join an organization to learn these ideals then your parents wasted about 18 years raising you). I bet a gay guy can get a girl faster than you, so if anything, they would help rush - at least on the girl scene. And, I wouldn't want guys in my chapter that cannot accept diversity. Geez, next thing you're going to say is that you can't have Jewish members, or Latino's...etc.

Why would any respectable straight guy want to join a group that actively supports having gay members. Is that going to hurt or help his chances of getting laid? I'm going to say 'hurt.' A 'respectable straight guy' won't give a shit if there is a gay member in the fraternity he joins. And, getting laid is not the point of being in a fraternity.

So, I've answered your questions. Now, you need to re-think why you went greek, if you did at all. If its about discriminating and just getting ass, you're a real loser and maybe someday you'll reanalyze your thoughts when you find out your blood-brother is gay - and I sure as hell hope you're not a Beta.

PS, why so anonymous? Post your chapter and roll number....yeah, that's right, I didn't think so. Only cowards post this shit on the internet.

I come from a southern chapter so maybe I'm a bit conservative, but let me ask you this, if you are letting in gay guys then what is the point of your chapter? Letting in gays has nothing to do with the point of our chapter. The point of our chapter is not 'to not let in gays'. The point of our chapter is to dominate grades, athletics, student body...etc. It has nothing to do with being gay.

-You seemed to have overlooked the social aspect of the chapter. I can understand the sense of pride from finishing high in grades and athletics but we're talking about a social fraternity. If you wanted to join an organization for the grades then why did you not join an honors fraternity?


What do you do when it comes time for semiformal/formal and other date functions. Do your brothers bring guys? We all bring dates. Some hetero guys go solo, most bring female dates. Gay brothers can go solo, or bring a date. We don't discriminate, so it's not a big deal.

-Alright, the fact that any of your guys are going solo tells me that your chapter sucks. If you have guys among your ranks that can't at least find a date (not even to hook up, just a date) then you're pathetic. But besides that, can you honestly sit there and watch one of your fraternity brothers dance with another male and feel just peachy about it?


Do you ever mix with sororities? How do they feel about the fact that you have openly gay guys in your chapters? Yes, all the time. They don't care, why would they? They're gay, so it's not like they're trying to get in the sorority girls pants. If anything, they're more annoyed by 18 year old freshman who have never 'seen it' before...

-I have nothing legitimate for this one. However, is the average weight of the sorority under 150?


If you believe that having gay men in your chapter is not a detriment to rush then you're kidding yourself. Why do you think the average guy joins a fraternity? The answer is to go to parties and meet girls, (not to learn what ideals by which he should live his life. If you have to join an organization to learn these ideals then your parents wasted about 18 years raising you). I bet a gay guy can get a girl faster than you, so if anything, they would help rush - at least on the girl scene. And, I wouldn't want guys in my chapter that cannot accept diversity. Geez, next thing you're going to say is that you can't have Jewish members, or Latino's...etc.

-You bet a gay guy can get a girl faster than I can? Seriously? When you say get a girl do you mean talk to one. If so, you're probably right but if you mean have sex with a girl then I'm going to go ahead and say that I could do it faster. Hold on. Seriously, hold on. You believe that gay guys help in rushing straight guys? Let me ask you one more question. How does diversity help your organization. Does it make you closer, because you're all different?


Why would any respectable straight guy want to join a group that actively supports having gay members. Is that going to hurt or help his chances of getting laid? I'm going to say 'hurt.' A 'respectable straight guy' won't give a shit if there is a gay member in the fraternity he joins. And, getting laid is not the point of being in a fraternity.

-Yes it is.


So, I've answered your questions. Now, you need to re-think why you went greek, if you did at all. If its about discriminating and just getting ass, you're a real loser and maybe someday you'll reanalyze your thoughts when you find out your blood-brother is gay - and I sure as hell hope you're not a Beta.

PS, why so anonymous? Post your chapter and roll number....yeah, that's right, I didn't think so. Only cowards post this shit on the internet.


-Fuck no I'm not a Beta. I saw this thread because it was linked from another website. This thread is so gay that it has another thread in the other forum dedicated to making fun of it.

www.fratty.net

The thread is entitled Beta Theta Pi under Schools/Frats. Congratulations, this may change your life.

You're welcome, now leave - you're an idiot.

PS, let us know who you are - chapter, school, org., name...etc. I really want to know how ballsy you really are, or if you're a loser like all those other fratty.net guys who 'hide' behind their monitor with clever screen names....I doubt you have the balls you portray. It takes a real big man to be a tough guy online, but when your chapter president, your national fraternity, and maybe even your mother know what you're writing, I'm sure you'll act differently. So, I ask again, if you're the big tough guy you say you are, let us know who you are.

Two things in reply to fratmosphere.

1.I didn't need to join a fraternity as a crutch in order to meet girls. I can get girls on my own. My frat did open up my social circle a lot, but relying on some girl to get wet when you tell her you are a frat guy is pretty weak.

2.When I was rushing, if a fraternity did tell me they had openly gay members...I would have thought 'What the fuck. Do they go to date parties together...what are they going to make me do when I'm pledging.' Either way, I would not have pledged that fraternity.

Coramoor, if you're a Beta from WVU then I respect you. From what I understand, that's a good chapter. I wasn't saying that I would be unable to get women if I wasn't in a fraternity but I think we both can agree it makes it easier. Why wouldn't a reasonable guy want to increase his odds of meeting girls? Actually, what it really came down to was that before I rushed, I noticed that the hottest girls on campus were usually wearing sorority letters. I figured (correctly) that these girls were most interested in guys in fraternities.


ZZ-kai, do you really think I'm going to tell you who I am? I've thought about it and that doesn't really offer me any benefits. Answer these questions if you dare.


Why did you join a fraternity?

What state is your school in?

What is the advantage of having a diverse or in your case extremely diverse chapter?

Well, everyone has their own reason for joining a fraternity, some being a little more valid then others. The fact is, we initiate men who live up to the values and standards of Beta Theta Pi, and I do not remember it talking about homosexuality. Initiating someone should be not be decided based on whose going to be comfortable at date parties, because thats not what its all about, and if you cant create a bond with someone because of who he likes, well, then I sure hope your not a Beta.

What is the advantage of having a diverse or in your case extremely diverse chapter?
-Its not about being 'diverse.' People dont set a minimum quota on the member of gay men, or black men, or etc, that they give bids too. Its about being open to gay men being apart of the fraternity experience. They can socialize with sororities and fraternities just as well as straight men, and most cases better. In rush, they can get alot more sorority girls to help. At Date parties, if its with a sorority, well, they dont have to attend, or they can, but they, im pretty sure, are going to be aware of the situation. My chapter has the gayest of gays and the straightest of straights, and once both sides gave the other a chance, they all had a much happier experience.

About diversity, why would you want to join a group of people that's not like you, partially or completely? You mentioned feeling comfortable at date parties. Wouldn't you want to feel comfortable in all circumstances around the people you're spending the four best years of your life with? Also, why would you want a brother that wouldn't go to events such as date parties or mixers?

Is that how you rush guys into your fraternity? Do you try that hard to convince them to join your chapter, as you are to make us think gays should not be accepted? If so, you're terrible at it.

I do not owe you an answer to anything. You're a lurker on this board just trying to get people upset. Go on living in your hole, when you graduate, if you graduate, you'll move on to some job where diversity is going to slap you in the face. And I hope you post on here your true feelings when your dad comes out of the closet. That'll be a good one.

What do you mean by convince them to join? What's that all about? Also, I might need to deal with diversity in the workplace but not when I'm trying to join a selective group of my peers. Finally, I highly doubt that my dad is gay considering he's had three kids and is happily married. I just find it improbable.

By the way can you answer the other questions that haven't been answered?

And as a side note, from what I see above it looks like you should target gay guys during recruitment since they're so good with girls.

I'm shocked at the direction this thread went in while I was absent due to Christmas.

Thank you, ZZ-kai-, for stepping up to the plate.

Okay, Fratmosphere, I'll attempt some intelligent answers.

Why did you join a fraternity?

I joined a fraternity because I was searching for a familial bond that I was lacking. My immediate family all live in Georgie, which is 9+ hours away. I wanted to have a group of people whom I could depend on and spend time with. I believe I found the best group.

What state is your school in?

Although I don't know WHAT this has to do with anything, but my school is in North Carolina.

What is the advantage of having a diverse or in your case extremely diverse chapter?

A diverse chapter allows you the opportunity to be exposed to different cultures, habits, religions, rituals, etc etc. A fraternity (or any other collegiate organization) is based on perfected your character. Learning methods to deal with other people is critical in your education and subsequent success in "the real world".

Given the statistics, I would be shocked to find ANY greek chapter in this country that did not have a gay member (male or female, out or in the closet).

I don't believe a person's sexual orientation has anything to do with their ability to contribute a positive influence within their chapter, school, commmunity, etc. We have a few openly gay members in our chapter. They attend all functions and typically bring female dates with them to public events simply because they don't want to be the brunt of ignorant gossip. Regardless of who they choose to sleep with, a person can still live up to our standards and expectations.

And on that whole "fratty.net" topic... please. Noone takes that sight seriously and it is more often times than not the brunt of jokes and ridicule amongst our campus.

[image removed]

You guys pull ass. I'll be back.

wow, that is probably one of the most disrespectful things i have ever seen. there used to be so much more civility in here three days ago.

Whether you are gay or not is your own business. As is your religion, politics etc.

However, that being said, no one has an obligation to like you or want to tolerate you . . whatever their reason.

There is this idea that we should like and tolerate everyone . . . And maybe we should, but we don't.

So if you come out of the closet thats fine, but to expect everyone to like you for it is childish.

But if someone comes out of the closet, and you liked them before, then why should you hate them?

Who gives a crap, its the same guy??!!