Selling Parents to Allow Sorority Membership
 

Hey Guys,
I have a NM in the chapter I advise whose mother is not cutting the apron strings....AT ALL! I mean is on the phone minutes after the girls classes end to see if she's on her way home. Doesn't want her daughter out after like 8pm on a Friday night, etc. Must give permission before the girl is allowed to do about anything. When it was offered that the NM could spend the night with a sister on late evenings, the mother asked if the sister was a "dike." :eek: I've never used or spelled that word before so I'm not sure is it's right. Talk about shocking though!!!! I mean, my God!

Over the summer parents letters were sent out and information about campus sorority life (money, time constraints, everything) was sent to all PNM's. The mother met the sisters during Orientation days and was given the entire speal. Mother said she could join a sorority and the NM was thrilled. Now she's making it so hard the girl is thinking about quitting just to get mommy-dearst off her back. The chapter literally meets one day a week....that's it. If there's an event it's on that day. They have no house, no chapter room. I barely have to worry about risk mgmt. Hell, there's 9 of them in the entire chapter!

Daddy has no power in the family....mom wears the pants. However, he is excited that the NM is meeting girls and has people who want to hang out.

I know mom's have a hard time letting go....my mom did, but she would have never stopped me from pursuing an activity like a sorority. Any advice from other mom's or dad's out there????? Help!!!

Re: Selling Parents to Allow Sorority Membership
 

Okay, that is BEYOND allowing her daughter to be in a sorority. That is a mom not allowing her daughter to live her life.

I've been noticing more and more lately that today's parents are just way overprotective. About every little thing.

Is this the NM's first semester in college? Maybe her mom just needs to get used to the idea that her daughter is capable of taking care of herself.

Either way, it sounds like something this NM needs to work out on her own. Encourage her to not quit by not talking bad about the mom, or making comments about, "I don't understand why your mom won't let you do this..." -- just let her know that you'll be there for her whatever happens. The last thing you want is to make her feel that she has to choose between the sorority and her mom.

Let me get this straight. The mother is contacting your group's leadership to tell you what to do?

You actually pay attention to what she says why?

Her daughter actually pays attention to what mom says why?

For her mother's manipulation scheme to work, she has to be a willing participant.

Does she still live at home? Because if she is, then I would say that move number one should be for her to MOVE OUT. If the university has dorms, that is where she should be. Especially if she is a freshman.

I promise, if this mother keeps her daughter on such a tight leash, she will never learn the kind of independence it takes to make it on your own in the real world.

Unless this mom wants her daughter to live at home and have to take care of her forever, then she needs to let go and trust her daughter to have the common sense of a woman.

Ok, that really doesn't help YOU at all, though. I'm sorry. :(

I do agree that this is something that the NM has to deal with. I think that being in a sorority will HELP the situation. I think maybe she should point out to her mom that she is capable of making some decisions on her own.

Probably because mom is paying for it. I have seen lots of people who feel trapped into doing whatever mom and dad want because they are the ones who pay for college and living.... And they threaten to stop doing so if son or daughter does something that they don't like. :(

The mom isn't telling us anything....one small good thing.

We pay attention because she daughter (1st yr) is a NM and is contemplating quiting b/c momma is riding her butt so much.

Daughter paying attention....yeah, I had started to stand my ground at 18, but she lives under mom's roof and you know what that means.

She's been a willing participant this long.....I'm not going to tell her her this b/c it's not my place, but I think it's time to break the cycle!

I'm not a mom, but I am the daughter of two parents who had a lot of trouble letting go when I went to college. My folks fought me on everything from joining a sorority to religion to dating (they wanted me to have a doctorate before I ever dated :rolleyes: ).

A lot of parents have trouble making the transition from "I'm the mother/father and you will do as I say!" to "I really don't think that doing X is a good idea, and here's why, but it's ultimately your decision."

For a while, my parents and I did the "don't ask, don't tell" thing. What finally worked, though, was a firm, "I am 21 years old. I am an adult and I have been an adult for over three years. I really do appreciate the advice you give me. But, ultimately, I have to make my own decisions in life, and sometimes I'm going to make a decision that you disagree with, but it's what I feel is the right choice for me, and if I'm wrong, I will accept the consequences. This is my life, not yours."

Maybe it's time for this NM to sit down with her mother and have a similar conversation. Today it's the sorority; tomorrow it will be a job, or relocating to a new city, or going to grad school, or getting married. Hopefully it won't take her 3+ years to work up to this conversation like it did for me.

A dark thought: Is the NM's mom holding money over her head, i.e., "Do as I say or I'm not paying your tuition" ?

ETA: I've just seen your post that this NM lives at home. I must agree with Lindz - she must move out, otherwise she will never learn to be an independent young woman and will remain mommy's little girl.

First off, Mom is A Real Trip, well amybe over protective to say the least.:(

This Girl is going to have to make up Her own mind at some point in time.

Maybe, Mom from Hell doesnt realize the benefits that Her Daughter can learn from being in a Sorority.

Can You talk to Mom and explain or is that a No No?

I also figure Mom want a Greek or wouldnt even be asking so many questions. Also, who is paying Girl or Mom? Might have an impact.

Basically, this NM is going to have to make up HER mind one way or the other!

The number one thing is this: Don't judge or criticize her family to her or in front of the collegians.

This is her battle. Let her make the decision.

For the future, keep doing what you're doing. Send informational packets home to the parents with a personal letter from the Big Sisters. Invite the parents of member to special pre-recruitment Preview Weekends and invite everyone to Family Weekends during the school year.

If the member wants to get out from under her mother's thumb, she needs to do it for herself.

If you get overly involved, you'll get hurt, and the mother has the potential to make hell for you and the chapter. Don't let that happen.

Be sympathetic, be supportive-- if a sister knows of an open housing situation or parttime job, let that sister recommend it to the NM. Hold NM programming on homesickness, self-respect, self-accountability, etc.

Know that this is an atypical parent.

Two good points of thought.

Of course being a Guy and doing on my own may make a difference.

Do tread lightly and send things Moms way to let Her know what Sorority is doing.

Maybe this NM will finally make a decission if she hasnt already.

The sister who is the most frustrated is her almost big sister who at 18 told her parents I'm going into the military...deal with it. Definitely night and day in terms of personality types. I've taken the opportunity to tell her that the NM has to work this out with her parents on her own. There isn't anything we can say that will make the light bulb turn on. There is a family/friends event in about 2 weeks created to introduce parents to each other and allow a Q&A time for advisors and parents. Luckily, I'm well practiced! Although I could definitely use a little backup (calling AlphaXiGirl!)

Ultimately though, the NM and mom have to compromise at the very miniumum. There's nothing any of us can do but let them work it out. It's a sad scenario though.....in college, but not IN college, y'know?

It may not be as easy as the NM being able to tell her mother no; she may not know how.

I strongly recommend someone hand her a copy of an Adult Children of Alcoholics self help book. The mother may not be an alcoholic, but her controlling behavior has the same effect.

Given "Mommy Dearest”s controlling ways, this individual will need lots of support, and possibly therapy, to learn how to live independantly. But she will have to reach that conclusion herself.
You can show her the door, but you can't walk her through it.

It is possible that the sorority could provide an invaluable network for her; it is also possible that membership in the sorority will only re-enforce her adherance to her mothers' will. The best you can do is to support whatever decision she does make.

Trish, I'm familiar with the school, lol,;)

If nm is living at home, it probably isn't that far away from school so to mom, and nm to a degree, this is just as if she transferred to another high school.

Nm does need to have a talk with mom and say that I love this and this and this about the sorority. For one thing, it lets me experience new things with people that I feel comfortable sharing with that has my best interests at heart and wouldn't allow me to get into a situation that I shouldn't be in (take that drink away, lol)..

I think that as the mom gets to know the chapter members, she should fill better about letting go.

If things don't improve, then the nm may quit and always blame her mom for letting a terrific opportunity go bust.

((On a side note, I misread the title and thought it said Parents Sellling Sorority Membership!!)):confused: :confused: ;)

I know parents like that.....I live with them....when I was in first year, I told my dad that I was going to try out for cheerleading. I spent half an hour on the phone with him trying to convince him that I was going to go ahead, no matter what. He was worried that I was going to hit my head and get some sort of concussion. I was like, so? It's not like I'm going to get in, because I didn't cheer in high school nor do I have a gymnastics background. I wanted to try out for fun (this was for cheerleader in the marching band. There was no way I was going to try out for competitive cheerleading)

i feel for he
 

I really feel for this girl. I have a secret to avoid my mother's anti-sorority speeches... SHE DOESN'T KNOW! It's worked so far and I have a great presentation w/ pictures for when I feel the time is right. I send my shirts to wash at my boyfriends house and thankfully I live at the dorms so she can't be here all the time. I love my mom, but she doesn't know anything about sororities so who is she to judge??

Yep, I'm the almost Big Sister....

Basically, it's like this: whoever said it hit the nail on the head. They are holding EVERYTHING over her head. The fact that she still lives under their roof and will obey their rules. They at one point were going to let her move into the dorms next semester but are now saying no to that (but who knows what can change in the next 3 months). basically, the fact that they still feed and support her is what is holding her back.

The REASON I joined the military is so that i DIDNT need mom and dad to put a roof over my head and food in my mouth. I found a way to say "I'm doing this, and you cant stop me, because there is nothing you can hold over my head to keep me from surviving." Had I stayed at home, i probably would have gone through something SIMILAR, but mom and dad would have let me have a life too.

The new member basically doesnt have any guts to stand up to her parents and say "This is something i really want to do. Please support me on this." She thinks it is easier to give in to what her mom wants than to challenge her. And I dont necessarily mean REBEL against her mom, but she wont even try to work a compromise out of her mom.

The thing I DONT understand though, is that her mom knew about the sorority in June, when we met her at orientation. SUDDENLY out of nowhere, after she's already joined, her mom is telling her "I dont want you hanging out with those girls, I dont want you out partying and drinking."

First of all, the only "partying" we've done since she joined was to go to Chili's for dinner and a couple of games of bowling on the evening of bid day. We've NEVER taken her to a party, we've NEVER taken her drinking.

Somethign that didnt occur to me, but two of our other members pointed out, is that she might be digging her own grave. Because she hangs out with the guys in one of the fraternities ALOT. She's dating one of them, which is no big deal, mommy has met the guy, but what was brought to my attention is that when mom calls in the afternoon and evening to find out where she is, she very well might be saying "I'm hanging out with the girls" when, in reality, shes not with us, she's with the guys.

Now, I dont know if thats true, but if she is using us as an excuse, and goes home smelling like smoke or whatnot every night, its no damn wonder her mom doesnt like us, and she's digging her own grave.

As Trish mentioned, we're having a family and friends night next week, I hope her parents wont NOT come out of spite, and I hope they will be open minded about it. The chapter president and I are meeting with her today, I've about exhausted everything I can say to her about standing up for herself without necessarily rebelling. I think the pres can pull more out of her cause she'll be more direct about it than I can.

She wants it, I know she does, but she doesnt have the courage to stand up to her mom. She's afraid of being cut off. I dont know. I'm so heartbroken about this, because I busted my butt over the summer recruiting her (yeah, we dont have official panhellenic, I kept in touch with her by email, but I tried to play nice and promote greek life in general in those emails - I cant help that she chose us *wink*) and now that we got her I dont want to lose her. I guess as Trish pointed out, my personality type is "I'm gonna do what i wanna do and if you dont like it screw you" and I just dont understrand how some people cant stand up for themselves.

The Invitation
 

We're planning on having cards on each table with some information, some of the answers to these questions, and we'll have girls float and mingle and answer other questions the parents may have, etc etc. Hopefully, all the parents will take advantage of this opportunity. I hope so anyway.

*ETA* adpiucf, I actually DID write a personal letter to her parents to send with the invitation. I dont want to take up a bunch of MORE space on this thread, but the letter was basically selling them the way I tried to sell her. If anybody is interested in seeing it, let me know and I'll PM it to you, or post it if other people dont mind.

Oh Amanda,

(((Hug)))

It's not easy to be a really strong person and watch someone who isn't so strong going through something. I admire you so much for taking on this NM as your little and being there for her as a sister, sponsor and friend. Hang in there, and know that regardless of the outcome that she will grow and learn from this experience, and her life will have been enriched by knowing you and Alpha Xi. And you will come out this stronger, wiser and more loyal to your sisterhood.

Keep doing what you're doing. Have patience. Let your sis decide when it's time to grow up. It's not easy to go against your parents-- esp. parents like these. It's definitely time to cut the apron strings, but the NM has to be the one who is ready to do it.

Well, the option is always on the table that this young lady could just stop telling her mom about what she does in her personal life. It sounds like mom's abusing that a lot.

She needs to get the heck out of her parents' house though. No one who is out of HS should have to put up with crap like that.

I thought it meant that some people were selling their parents to get money for dues, formals, etc. ;)

She's never learned how -- these parents certainly weren't going to teach her. Better the hell you know than the hell you don't know.

I watched a similar thing happen in college -- the best you can do is be supportive and try to nudge things along without pressuring her. As you're getting to know her better, share your own story with her, without adding the "I did it, so can you" moral -- let her do with it what she will.

That said, perhaps the best way you can sell über-Mama on your group is by playing on her zeal to make sure her daughter is being looked after. Show her you will be real sisters and that you all look out for each other.

On the other hand, that may trigger Mama's biggest fear -- that her daughter won't need her anymore.

Another book that might be helpful is Toxic Parents...I'm not exactly sure who the author is, but it's a pretty well-known book. My psychiatrist recommended it when I was dealing with some issues concerning one of my own parents, who means well but is extremely controlling, and I found it to be pretty helpful. But as someone said, ultimately she has to seek out help on her own--nothing will change if she isn't willing to.

I hate to make the same point twice but I have to reiterate - You can sell this woman's mother on the sorority thing and you will not solve the problem - the mother will only move to the next controlling thing. Frankly, I don't think there's a thing you can tell this mother anyway that will change her opinion of the sorority (her issue has nothing to do with the sorority and everything to do with control - you might as well be the chess club, that is not her point).

I know this type of parent too well (both personally, and from friends). When an individual has been raised to have her decisions questioned, and when it becomes easier to submit than challenge, the individual becomes a ticking time bomb of destruction.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but based on past experience I am going to catagorize this NM's behavior and say:
- The NM does not have confidence in her decisions, she has a very low self esteem about her decision making ability
- She has a hard time saying no, and may have issues both with doing to much (workaholic), drinking too much, taking drugs, or seeking out sexually dangerous behavior (unprotected sex, multiple partners, etc). Or she may become anorexic or bulemic, if the elements of control extend to body image and/or food.
- If she does not already do these things, she will - this individual is like a rubber band being stretched - when it snaps it will swing wildly the other way and could be deadly destructive.

GET HER HELP NOW.

If you don't know how to help her, seek the advice of a psychologist or other advisor trained to handle these situations.

Well, I give up...
 

She said the hell with it. She was tired of dealing with the parents and it would just be easier to quit. Her parents backed out on coming to family night. How insecure must you be with yourself, that as two grown adults you wont even give something a chance?

You know whats so damn funny though???? Monday night her mother called me. She was asking if I knew where she was, and I was like "Honestly, i havent seen her, I dont know."

Why did she call me? Because I'm the only person whose number she has - and thats because I sent them that 'f-blankin' letter, trying to do a good thing. Woman, don't CALL ME, to hunt down your daughter, when you wont give me or my organization the time of day. Dont CALL ME because your daughter is purposely ignoring your calls because you have her on too tight of a leash. I gave you my number if you had questions about the sorority. I did not give it to you so you could call me every time your daughter decided to not answer her phone.

it got to be too emotionally draining. When she finally said "the hell with it" I didnt even fight her anymore. Sometimes you gotta know when to give up, and at this point, I was so upset that anger was taking over. Even if she had have stayed and i had gotten her as a little, it would have always been in the back of my mind "when is she going to leave us high and dry?"

like I said, i'm so upset about the situation that the anger has kicked in and I'm just MAD about it. But whatever. you know why? because my actual little sister, (the one I received at retreat last weekend), brought a classmate/PNM to Family and Friends night last night (because it was recruiting the parents, why not recruit PNMs too, it was like a COR event also). Most of us had been to dinner with her and were planning on extending her a bid. She was absolutely thrilled last night when we gave her the bid and she accepted. YAY!

Eh, I'd be mad too.

I cannot fathom why parents would want to be so controlling of their adult children.

Yeah, this reminds me of one of my good friends from HS who was not ALLOWED to go off to college (but her brothers were) or do anything...I wouldn't be surprised if she's never been on a date and is still living at home, and she's 38.

I used to try to get her to do things, but it just got to be pointless.

I'll get over it, its just some of the guys in one of the fraternities keeps asking me about it and I'm like "look, I dont wanna talk about it, I'm too upset and mad right now, so just give me time to get over it."

I'm super excited about our newest girl though. the grin on her face when we gave her the bid was amazing. YAY!

Her mother called YOU? Oh, I would have let the woman have it over that one............

Stories like this really make me appreciate my parents who allowed me to make all the mistakes I wanted.

Yeah, the same woman who asked if I was a dyke because I offered to let her daughter stay at my place rather than driving 20 miles home on a late night. yes. the same woman who told her daughter the minute I left their house after meeting me that she just didnt like me (for what reason I have no idea). So then, trying to smooth things over, I wrote this very parent friendly letter, inviting them to come to parents night and sent it with the invitation. I guess i made the mistake of giving my cell number at the bottom in case she had any questions.

you know what, just to satify my curiosity, I'm going to post the letter i sent her parents. youve seen the invitation. I cant understand why her parents are so danged selfish and controlling. Sounds to me like Mama has some regrets about her own college days and is doing everything in her power to make life a living hell for hr daughter.


Here's the letter

Dang crazy woman. I swear, if she calls me again....it's gonna take ALOT to be a better person, cause I really just wanna tell her where to stuff it.

My Relationships professor would have a field day with this one--he's always going on about "enmeshment" and how inividuals who fail to differentiate end up having so many problems in life. Looks like he's right. I really hate to hear that she gave up the sorority, but this is only the tip of the iceberg. She will never be able to have a life if she keeps giving in to her mother like this. It's really, really sad.

By the way, that letter was great--I can't see how anyone would take offense at that. Well, any sane person, anyway.

*HUGS* for Amanda

What a psycho woman! That was a great letter you wrote, and I will never understand why parents act that way! Her mother reminds me of the mother of my ex-boyfriend who would give her college age son a curfew and pretty much act like this woman is acting. Coincidently, my ex went to SPSU for a few semesters. Hmm...

I'm sorry to hear that your new member dropped out despite your efforts. :( I guess she wasn't ready to cut the apron strings.

The book is by Dr. Susan Forward. Sorry she dropped out but hell you need to buy this book for her and GIVE it to her! I HIGHLY recommend this book.

I've had parents call me before to tell me how to advise. I'm always like, okay but that is not a policy, if your daugther breaks the rules then we have consequences. I try to have minimal contact with parents because I don't want them to come to me with every problem their daughter has. I had a parent like that last year and thank the Lord the daughter graduated. If the daugther got into a fight with her sisters or other friends the mother would call me to "help" or she would suggest what I could do to help the situation.

My mother never called my adviser or any officers for that matter. I can understand a parent calling if they haven't like seen their daugther for a while or heard from her in a while, but for every freaking little thing...sometimes you gotta cut the cord!

I even had a mother call to me that our rules about academics were too tough...I told her they are tough for a reason; to make your daugther the smartest and to help her graduate on time!

Anyway, I'm sorry this mother ran your NM off...

I would LOVE to see this girl married...can you imagine that train wreck?!?!?!?!

Seriously though, good effort Amanda. Sometimes you've just gotta give the best you can, and then back off and let people make their own mistakes (something you know, but the parents don't).

:)
PsychTau

When a new member pledges an Alpha Gam Chapter, a letter signed by the Chapter Advisor is mailed along with fraternity and financial info.

Unfortunately, the NM Coordinator forgot the inserts so I've already gotten emails from concerned parents...replied to let them know it was coming!;)

Wow for the bump - this thread was referenced in another recent thread....

So said NM that quit - she dropped out of school after her freshman year, but she continued to hang around school for another year while said fraternity boy finished school, and then they got married - so she could escape her parents.

Gotta love those parents who put such tight restrictions on their daughters, that the only way out of the house is to get married. Unfortunately, it's alot more common than I realized. She isnt the only one I've known who have done this...

I will NEVER ever have those kind of restrictions on my kids....

I know this is really old, but my parents were not excited at all when I went Greek. When my sister joined her sorority a year later, they were even less excited. They came from a time when sorority membership was a sign of extreme elitism and indicated rigid class distinctions in certain communities, and they were kind of activisty in college. They let us know, pretty early on, in very specific terms that we were on our own for dues and related costs. My sister and I have both been active alumnae--my sister was her chapter's president for two years--so their lack of approval never stopped us. I can see if we were less enterprising and more dependent on them, we could have chosen not to go Greek.