My advice to "nice" guys . . . Thread for men only.
 

This is some of my generic advice to nice guys or even just guys that have been out of the dating scene for a while.

I will write this in parts . ..

Part 1. Don't be afraid of the Pussy.

The problem:

Whenever you like someone there is a certain amount of tension or anxiety . . our hearts beat faster, we feel nervous.

The more we like them, or the more attractive they are, the more we tend to feel that way. This shoots us in the foot and makes it much harder to talk to girls we like.

Especially if you haven't been dating for a while, or are not used to being around really good looking girls. I see plenty of guys that could go out with much better looking women but they are actually intimidated by them. Strange eh? But true.

So step one for nice to guys is to desensitize themselves to women by talking to good looking girls in a highly sexual but controlled environment: Strip clubs.

Yes I Said strip clubs. Strip clubs are a great place for guys to go and practice some of their social/sexual skills on good looking women.

So your assignment is to start going once or twice a week to strip clubs with some friends. Bring dollars. Talk to the girls. Make sure you pick a strip club with hot girls not skanky ones.

Keep going until you can go on your own and talk to the girls without your friends anywhere in sight.

If you can get to the point where you can have a good conversation with some naked girl, or girl wearing sexy lingerie thats sitting on your lap, or better yet giving you a lap dance, you won't have any problem talking to a pretty girl in most social situations.

Part 2. Learn how to flirt even with girls you don't like.

In order to really register on a girl's radar you have to be interesting. Some guys do it by being extra agressive or assholeish. Some guys do it by being stupid. The best way to do it is by learning to be flirty . . all the time.

The reason you want to incorporate being flirty as a basic part of you personlity is because its hard to just turn it off and on when you like someone.

Again it comes back to that tension people feel when they meet someone they like or are very attracted to. If flirting doesn't come naturally there can be a tendency to clam up in conversation . . which makes you boring.

Also if you are a natural flirt you will attract girls you didn't even notice which gives you a broader base to pick from.

There are books on flirting. There are internet web sites about it.

Your trick is to start practicing on girls you don't like and are not attracted to. Practice until it becomes natural. Practice at the strip club with the naked girl sitting on your lap. Practice till its secons nature.

Re: My advice to "nice" guys . . . Thread for men only.
 

James, sweetie. You know I love you. You often give very good advice. Here is MY advice in response to this teeny tiny statement:

MEN: DO NOT GO TO THE STRIP CLUB BY YOURSELF! That is creepy and gross. Please do not ever become that guy who goes to the strip club alone. Strip clubs are find when it is a group of guys just out having a little fun.... and by that I mean, not there to get all turned on by the girls. Strip clubs can be fun in a mixed group of guys and girls. Guys who go to strip clubs alone.... No.

Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled thread. Thanks James. :)

Part 3. Practice dating.

Its funny, we seem to practice everything. Everything. Sports, we even take prep courses for Tests etc.

The one thing we don't practice for is human relationships. Especially the most important human relationships, the romantic ones.

So here is how nice guys should practice for it.

Date girls that you are not that interested in.

I know a lot of guys that have done it.

Date girls you don't feel that attracted to. Practice talking to them. PRactice asking them out. Practice being charming. Practice showing them a good time.

Who knows, you might really start to like them.

It also helps if you practice with more than one girl at the same time.

There used to be a word for this . . it was called dating. Or social dating. Where you went out with girls socially without the intention of getting serious.

The advantage is that you get a wider range of experience with more girls, you learn to be better at showing girls a fun time, and also you learn the difference between what different girls like or don't like.

crashing the "men only" thread...
 

James, I think that if someone is so socially retarded that he needs to go to strip clubs to "desensitize" himself to women and "practice" flirting and dating by flirting and going out with women he doesn't really like, he's never going to get anywhere.

Dating isn't easy for every guy and you know what? There are plenty of women out there who LIKE guys who aren't all smooth and flirtatious and who haven't "practiced" interacting with other humans. Your advice assumes that all guys should fit a certain mold -- and this is where I think it's dangerous. I'd rather find a guy who might be a little awkward talking to me if he thinks I'm hot than a guy who's really good at having a conversation with some naked woman giving him a lap dance -- and by the way, of course strippers are going to be nice to you when you're paying them -- isn't gaining confidence by doing that really, I don't know, fake?

I've never been impressed by a guy who wants to show me a good time or who is polished at small talk and the like. For me, attraction is about more than that -- it's physical, of course (and in that case is either there or it isn't and there's nothing you can do about it) but beyond that, it's about how we connect in ways that transcend mere social skills and the like.

I'm not even sure if what I'm saying makes sense. I'm sure there are guys who would benefit from following your suggestions, but I'm trying to address the guy who may lack confidence in himself and his dating abilities but who doesn't think your advice is quite right for him -- just be yourself and cultivate your own interests and who you are. In time, you'll find someone who thinks you rock even when you are a little shy or unsure of yourself.

Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

Yes. Aaaaand I find the strip club idea really sort of creepy. If I met a guy that acted anything like this thread is describing, I'd run far, far in the opposite direction. Granted, there are a lot of girls who like that kind of guy, so you probably WOULD attract girls. Just know that not every girl will react the same, and there will be plenty of women who find this stuff pretty skeezy. You SHOULD be able to turn off your "flirting" switch or you could end up doing far more harm to your game than good -- if you're interested in a girl and she's interested too, but you keep flirting with both her and her friend? Most girls, barring the wildly insecure ones, are going to turn their backs on that.

Any thread in which a man purports to teach men what women want is bound to end up full of pretty horrible advice. ;)

Re: Re: My advice to "nice" guys . . . Thread for men only.
 

Uh yah, it is definitely CREEPY.

Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

Very well said. Contrary to some people's belief, not all women want the same thing.

Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

Lol, very true. Plus what makes this particular man so well qualified to give such advice?

Re: Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

OH NO YOU DI-INT! ;)

Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

Look, it's fine and wonderful that you fine young ladies don't fit this particular mold and wouldn't 'fall' for this type of guy - guess what? You're not exactly a representative sample, nor would any of you describe yourselves as anything resembling the 'average' girl. Besides that, it's well and good to say that you'd prefer the bumbling-yet-honestly-nervous cat to the ultra-smooth one . . . but the issue is even working some men into the position to become the bumbler, and not just "that guy across the bar or down the hall."

You're also applying too much value to the advice James is proposing - the strip club advice, when you remove the negative connotation that the actual strip club holds, probably represents one of the few actual chances men have to step into socially uncomfortable situations with no real reprocussions for failure.

I have to add here that I don't agree with the strip club suggestion. Not from any sense of morality or creepiness or anything like that. I just find it fundamentally flawed.

See, at least to me, I have no problems chatting up girls in a strip club. They're just professionals doing a job and nothing more. There's nothing arousing or erotic about strip clubs to my mind, so it's a completely different situation from what a bloke faces in the field so to speak.

I think the issue with the strip club is that they really aren't full of extremely beautiful women.
Have you been to a strip club lately. Most of the women are rather quite average. The advice, is still flawed.

Re: Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

Um, yeah cause they're getting PAID to act like this guy is the coolest thing they have ever spoken to. It is just not representative of what he will actually encounter in the real bar scene.

This guy goes and schmoozes the dirty strippers just fine, and they all act like they are interested and he is certain that they are all over him.... Then he tries to go to a real bar and the chicks there aren't gonna pretend that they find him interesting. He will get shot down over and over again- I mean after all, he IS that creepy guy who goes to strip clubs alone. :p

Re: Re: Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

No, actually you're completely missing the point. The point is NOT that the guy is 'practicing' for a real-world scenario, as much as he's getting over his initial fear of even being in a situation with a girl. The fact that she's naked and interested - to the point of being overly so, in fact - is indeed the most important thing.

Many "nice guys" are paralyzed by fear or self-doubt. What causes these fears? Well, it's a fear of rejection, it's discomfort in social settings, it's the fact that girls are soft and smell good, it's a variety of things. To overcome this paralysis, the guy has to face these fears, and assuage that nervousness.

He's not actually practicing 'running game' on strippers - for the very reasons you state, it's not going to be representative. In fact, I noted this very phenomenon by stating "no real chance for negative reprocussions," which we can sum up as 'failure.'

Instead, he's practicing not being a pansy ass, and choking down those fears and becoming a participant instead of an observer. The blatant nudity, the 'stripper smell,' the fact that everything is completely over-the-top (including the stripper's reactions) means that the guy has even more to shove down into the pit of his stomach.

My point is not that this is such fantastic 'practice' because it simulates real-world situations in such exacting detail - it's that there simply aren't many substitutes for the 'real thing' to allow these guys to overcome their fears, and the strip club might just be the craziest (and thus somewhat effective) one.

None of this includes or precludes the guy being a creep - that's independent of the strip club. Guys that are creepy were creepy before the club, and will be creepy after, but not necessarily because. Does that make sense?

That makes sense yes.

I guess I just think that if you're going to go try to get over your fear of talking to women, you might as well just do it in the real world. Yeah, you're probably gonna get rejected sometimes. It happens to everyine. I say just grow some balls and walk up to that chick in the club. I personally think that it would be the better idea. Just keep plugging away at it, don't get discouraged, and eventually some girl will respond to you (whatever hypothetical guy we're talking about). Plus, then you can avoid completely that whole "creepy guy who goes to the strip club alone" thing.

Also, if a guy is nervous about talking to girls at the bar, maybe he should just start with some casual small talk in other places. Say something to the girl in line behind you at the grocery store. Mention how grazy gas prices are to the chick pumping gas next to you at the exxon station. Go to a store in the mall and ask the sales girl to help you pick out something for your sister/mother/good friend.

Maybe if the guy just tries having normal small talk with girls out in the real world, he will be less intimidated by them when he is out at the bar. I think you will find that almost every woman will be reasonably receptive to small talk in those situations. Because it is less invasive. The woman is most likely not going to take the statement "Wow, can you believe these gas prices?" to really mean "Can I please get in your pants now?" and she will be nice. She may not be interested in the guy, but she will probably be nice. And as long as the guy keeps it short and casual, and doesn't try to get a date out of it, then I think this would be a great venue to just practice talking to the opposite sex.

Ok, I hope that made sense, cause it is very rambling. :)

Re: Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

You know, I've been thinking about this "average girl" idea. This is really going off on a tangent, but I find it interesting.

What is the "average girl" -- is she someone who reads chick lit, watches Sex and the City, gossips over brunch with her girlfriends at a trendy restaurant, opting for salad instead of what she really wants so she can lose the extra five pounds she gained since college, who works and lives on her own but still hopes to find a man who wears suits and makes enough money to support her so she can stay at home with her babies and SUV stroller and afford a nanny to watch the kids while she goes out to get a manicure?

I'm sort of being facetious, but here's my thought -- if that is the average girl, or if the average girl is someone like her, I don't think that a guy who needs to follow James' advice to be "smooth" or "polished" is going to be (1) happy with her; or (2) the kind of guy she wants, even if he follows the advice given in this thread.

Anyway, back to the original point of the post -- are there really guys out there who are so terrified of women? Thinking back, I've known one guy who might qualify -- he was the kind of guy I hung out with for a minute and he'd say stuff like "You're so wonderful" or "You're so beautiful" and follow it with "Why are you hanging out with me?" Yeah, at that point I was like, I don't know homes, see ya, um, never again, hopefully.

Re: Re: Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

You know, you have a really good point. I have one particular friend who is this average girl. Bless her heart, I love her but she's just such a stereotype of herself that she's almost cheesy. Anything that women are "supposed" to like, she likes. And she thinks a guy isn't worth dating unless he's cute and got the potential to make a lot of money to support her. Do guys really go for this?

Re: Re: Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

While I completely agree, it turns out this train of thought is actually irrelevant to the points James is making.

Also, honestly until there is a baseline comfort with dealing with women in social situations, there's no way for the guy to explore what he actually wants, which is a key component of dating just to date (I would argue it's the most important part).

You're mixing your metaphor here - the classic 'friend-guy' or 'nice guy' is more likely to be 'functional' in male/female interactions, but his fear/paralysis kicks in when it's time to move beyond normal social interactions and into the territory he wants to move the relationship into (whether it be sexual, or simply dating). Simply put, he's out with girls, but he's not comfortable putting himself into positions to make the 'kill' - and this is actually surprisingly common among guys.

This may or may not be related to him being a spineless pansy ass, which is who you described in the second - they're not explicitly related, however.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

Ok, here are some more personal opinions. I'm not disagreeing with you at all, I think you make a good point. It just got me thinking on another tangent. :)

I do think that women who date guys just for their money-making potential are dumb. I kinda think they are just asking to end up in an unhappy marriage where their husband is banging their newest young sexy secretary, and she is banging the tennis pro at the local country club. So there is that opinion, love it or hate it.

Now as for dating guys who are cute. I also think any woman who says looks don't matter at all is just flat out lying. Looks are definately not everything... any guy I go for has to be intelligent and self-sufficient and be able to take care of himself. BUT, in a relationship with any man- I have to find him physically attractive. There is just no option there for me. I don't tend to go for the HOTTEST guys or the guys who are "eye candy", but I personally have to find them attractive and nice to look at. If there is no physical attraction there, then what kind of relationship is that? It's actually just a friendship.

So, while I don't consider myself one of those stereotypical women that you talked about, I also won't date a guy that I don't find cute and attractive. I hope that makes sense.

Ok, sorry for the hijack. :D

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

HELL YEAH that makes sense. I couldn't imagine being with a guy I didn't find, well, hot.

Part 4. Be conscientiously and methodically charming.

Ok now you are in a romantic relationship. Maybe you like her a lot, maybe you just like her enough to date her socially. Now its your mission to be as likeable and charming as possible.

Make sure that when you see her you sincerely compliment her appearance. Pay attention t changes in her hair and clothes.

Make sure you are flirty and funny, all the time. Plan events you know you both will like.

If you are in a bad mood and you are going to see her anyway, make sure you tell her up front whats wrong, that it has nothing to do with her and that you are glad that she is there because it makes you feel better.

Plan events every week that are actually dates. Just not hanging out. She's a girlfriend not a guy-pal.

Make sure there is plenty of foreplay. Don't always go for straight sex. Sex-play actually reinforces intimacy. Heavy petting in the morning before work is a great way to start the day. Try waking her up in the morning with oral sex (assuming she doesn't mind that stuff) it beats an alarm clock.

But the most important thing to remember is that you have to keep this behavior up all the time whether you have only been dating the girl for 6 days or 6 years.

A very few men do this intrinsically. In fact some of the men that are truly "players" fit this category, they have the knack of making women happy and keeping them happy. Most men are not like this.

How many times have we heard the lament of women saying how great their relationship was in the beginning months and then how the guy changed?

Thats not true, he just became who he truly was after his infatuation faded.

But our goal as guys is to have a maximum relationship. Which means you need act the way i have described even when you don't feel like it.

If acting like that doesn't come naturally to you except in the beginning of the relationship, and it doesn't for most men, make sure you start keeping track of these little romantic things.

You might even want to keep a journal that tracks how you are treating your SO. That way you can make sure you are daily paying her compliments. That you are taking her on interestig dates weekly. That you are engaging in daily sex-play.

Intimacy is not hard to keep, but virtually impossible to get back once its gone.

Basically you have to treat her like you are on your best behavior, like you are new to dating for as long as you are seeing her. Even if thats the rest of her life.

I see so many relationships where the man fails to do this stuff and romantic love soon fails leaving a strange bond based morely on comfort, security, and familiarity than any kind of grand passion.

In fact most relationships you will see are like that. Its like watching amovie where the male and female leads have no sexual tension even though they are supposed to be invovled.

Man...this saves us money dude.


I don't know what you are talking about. Will and Grace seemed to hit it off real well dude.Wait, Ok.


Should I put down when I am going to ovalate as well?

You're telling me to do WHAT!

Sweet I can go with that. "Hey beeeeyatch. I aint feelin it right now. Don't FUCK WITH ME. btw...I looooove you :) "

Oh it's not hard. She pictures Orlando Bloom, I picture Jessica Simpson. done and done.

Hey seriously though. Thats some good shit. But I'll make it quick for you.

Key to a womans heart. Be Funny.

Key to keeping a woman. Be good in the sack.

Bodda Bing Bodda Boom!


FA SHO

Part 4. Change your minsdset.

A lot of times so called nice" guys are just over socialized. They tend to be less agressive with girls because they were taught that girls were not sex objects. That in fact its insulting to think of them that way. That when a girl is paying alot of attention to you she probably just wants to be friends.

Some of that maybe true. But it can be confusing. Many guys get so caught up with that they might not notice if a girl likes him until he is hit over the head with it, because he has been taught not to think that way.

So the goal of the nice guy is to view all females as potential love interests. Then you start eliminating them if you are not attracted to them, or they just don't like you.

But the advantage is that you will always be flirty and charming which gives the greatest possible response from the greatest number of women.

The name of the game is to maximize both your chances of being charming and appealing to any one woman you are talking to, and also to be generically charming and appealing to women in general.

That should maximize your chances of both meeting the most amount of women and having the most amount respond to you.

So you want to take your new found confidence from strippers and flirting skills and be amusingly flirting with all the women you meet.

Even though I didnt make it past the 2nd paragraph of the 2nd post, I think James has some good advice for guys who need it. However, James has forgotten one important fact.


There is no such thing as a "nice" guy. Thats just a nice way of saying a guy is a loser.

Re: Re: Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

Throw in a set of fake Ds and freak sex drive with what you just described.......and thats wife material.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: crashing the "men only" thread...
 

Anyone else wonder why cash isn't married?

Hehe, I'm just kidding you know you're my favorite. :D

James writes really long posts.