More Lance Armstrong allegations
 

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=2141710

Now the Tour director is coming out against Armstrong, saying that the results definitively point to doping.

damn the French!

I can see it now, " Uhhhh Missssure Ahmstrrrung? uhhh Yooou know ahhh, how do ve say. you Survived de cansuh? You moosta beeen on de steroids yes/ no?"

Stupid french! C'mon man. Who is with me. Lets get those pansy asses

Yes! How dare the hold Lance to the same standard that the other athletes are held to! :rolleyes:

Heard on GMA today- EPO, the chemical they are looking for in the samples occurs naturally, and can occur in very high and varying levels in athletes such as Armstrong.


Bobby- you make me laugh. :)

Have they mentioned if they are going back and re-testing all the other cyclists' past samples as well, or just Armstrong's?

So . . . the French media should publish these kind of unfounded allegations about, say, Miguel Indurain or other (more popular) cyclists, and publish books that impugn his integrity without any scientific support, y'know, just in the interest of equality.

Does anyone else get the suspicion that they are doing this because they are pissed about him winning his 7th Tour De France? Come on people get over it, it was his last one?

And if they aren't going back and retesting all the cyclists urine samples, hello discrimination.

I'm right there with ya. Its just so "coincidential" that this all happens right about now.

Ditto.

You mean the standard of questionable test results, released 6 years after the fact, and someone from Canada's international research institute called the findings into question.

I'm not making a stand one way or the other - but you're a bit bold to render him guilty on this evidence.

I heard somewhere that they went back and tested a six-year-old sample of his urine. First, do they REALLY keep urine sampes for that long? And second, don't chemicals change over the years? Surely someone could have also had access to it and put something in it. I'd like to give Lance the benefit of the doubt.

That's a big reason why the results are being called into question. Would these results still be accurate?

A theory that's being put out is the suspicion among the French public and press regarding Armstrong's victories, especially the fact that he won them all after coming back from cancer. The thought seems to be that he needed chemical enhancement to win those titles.

We'll see, but I'm not sure we should be throwing anybody under the bus until more definitive results are found. Of course, some of us seem ready to convict him of cheating.

The French just need to GET OVER IT!!!!!!

What's done is done. He has won the titles for the past seven years. This was is LAST race. It is time for them to move on and think about next year.


I'm not biologist but I have to think that a urine sample from 6 years ago isn't a realiable source to check years later. Keeping a sample that long is for a witch hunt. I mean come on, they probably kept it that long on purpose so they could eventually use it against him.

And their excuse that somone who beat cancer could never have won without chemical enhancement, OMG that is a slap in the face to EVERY cancer survivor!!!!!! It's like telling them "yeah you beat cancer but you could never accomplish any monumental task (ie. Tour de France) without cheating". Come on.

Is it possible that any medication he would have been on as a result of the cancer could cause a false positive? Generally, people have to disclose any medication they're on at the time of the test. Assuming he wasn't on any medication, there's still the idea that some medications have a longer "half life" than others.

I haven't rendered him guilty... what I find annoying is the fact that there are many who veiw even calling into question his accomplishments by testing his samples (and yes they do keep thme for years) as unthinkable.

First off they have been testing more than just Lance's samples; yes Lance is the most prominent but not the only one - Two it is not a "slap in the face" to survivors of cancer or those still fighting it; if he cheated he cheated, if he didn't he didn't.

From what little I understand of the tests done so far, he has tested positive for blood doping - however they must confirm these results in three seperate labs for the results to be conclusive.

I don't think it's the calling into question that has people upset; it's the background of the whole saga. There have been several articles and at least one book written, alleging that Armstrong has been doping. In that time, scant proof has been offered. All in all, it has looked a whole lot like a witch hunt up until these test results, and even these results can be called into question.

One word.... EEEWWWWWWW. I wonder who's job it is to keep track of 6-year-old urine. Probably not a job I would brag about. "What do you do for a living?" "Oh, I keep track of old Tour de France urine." Score!


Hehe. :p

Last time I checked it wasn't the ENTIRE nation of France accusing him of doping, just several journalists. As a whole the French, especially on this last tour, are very impressed with Armstrong's performance in the Tour and a lot were even encouraging Lance to go for an 8th win by chanting it and painting it on the streets/roads where the tour was held this year.

Sounds like a great pick up line to me.

From the article:
Nuff said.

He's even said in interviews that it's been a love/hate relationship with the French; the fans seem to support him, while the press and a few scattered people seem to be on his case.

There are multiple problems with this - first is the fact that he was administered the drug (and precursors) during chemo, if reports are correct, and the effect of the drug may last beyond its administration period. Second is that ethryropoietin exists naturally within the body, and heightened levels can come from many sources - the levels were not reported by any reputable agency that I can find, and as such there is realistic doubt cast, from the opportunity that heightened figures could have come from other sources.

The sample has been passed to the WADA, although they're not sure whether or not they will even test them, due to the fact that samples older than 3-5 years may not be stable, as well as some other (primarily political) factors. That would be more definitive, for sure.

I do agree with the rest of your post, particularly the fact about this not being a negative toward cancer survivors. I do however think that you're thinking a little inside the box, to use a horrific phrase, and ignoring some significant issues related to these tests (and the tabloid nature of some of the reporting).

He was interviewed on some talk show this morning (Today maybe) and said that EPO wasn't made illegal for them until 2001 and the sample they are talking about was from 1999. He also said that they test you each time you get the yellow shirt as well as at the beginning and end of each race, and some random times tossed in as well. He said there are sometimes 80 samples per race with the Tour de France. This drug stays in your system for a couple months so it should have shown up in every single sample of his, not just a couple. He also said it shouldn't be left over from his chemo, because that was in '98. He seemed pretty straightforward about the whole thing.

The French have been trying FOR YEARS to discredit Lance Armstrong. That man has had so many drug tests, all reportedly negative. NOW they are saying a test from a sample in 1999 is positive for EPO?!??! I am sorry but I have to call a big, ole' BULLSH_T on that one.

screw France.

there are only two things good things that ever came from france.

Laetitia Casta and this stud right here



http://www.blackwolf-images.com/imag.../loon/p_sq.jpg

This may come as a shock I'm sure... but guess what ALL OF THE CYCLISTS give samples, and are tested for samples. The Tour de France does this because a) performance enhancing substances take away from the fairness the sport, and more importantly the accomplishments of the athletes. b) when you've had some cyclists die because of drugs designed to enhance performance during or immediately after the race, you have to enforce the zero-tolerance for safety reasons, and the image of the sport.

As for the tests testing negative back in 1999... well duh - they didn't have the technology back then to test for it effectively - hence the re-testing now with methods that can detect it (you really ought to read up a little more - and not the tabloids).

So as it stands there has been a positive result for 6 of the 17 tested samples from 1999 - results that have to be confirmed by others sources... if only to stop this they said he said crap on the sports coverage now.

Again, people...it's not the FRENCH doing it..good lord!:rolleyes:

And it's not just Lance that has all the drug tests...it's all the cyclists. For a long time, cycling was ripe with doping...it just was. I had a female friend when I lived in France who cycled for fun- not competitively, and she dated a lot of cyclists who were competitive and some(not all) of her ex-men said that doping was the norm...and stated it definitely was in races like the tour when so much was demanded of your body. I'm not saying that doping is good, it's not, but that was what it was then. I'm sure people still do now, it's just a newer undetectable substance. In 1998 most of the teams were thrown out for doping...so people, it's not just Lance they are testing.

As far as certain journalists and witch hunters, yes, they are after him...but the guy who wrote the book that helped bring about all of this controversy to begin with is an Irishman. So why not say, damn the Irish too?:rolleyes:

The French hate us. Fine, then we will hate them. Well, it's more of a joke than anything you know.

Ever watch Cheers when Sam and the Frenchie had a contest to see who could get the most girls numbers?

Frenchies always try to be so artsy and blah blah blah. While we Americans are good ole Meat and potatoes beeeeotch. You don't like us? Well screw you and the horse you road on punkass. We'll kick your ass.

I love it. I can see it now.

Frenchie, " missure ahmstrong. you do dee roids!"

Lance, " hey Frenchie, does it look like I can hit 73 hrs?"

Frenchie, " well, you have suffered from dee shrinkage yes/no?"

Lance, " I HAD TESTICULAR CANCER ASSHOLE!"

Correct if I'm wrong though, but aren't certain FRENCH journalists the ones instigating this "witch hunt" of testing the old urine sample?

If it is, then I rest my case on my use of the phrase "French people need to get over it".

If that is the aproach (dumb as it is) that you are willing to take - then I guess the gloves are off and I can blame all Americans for what folks like Fred Phelps or Malik Zulu Shabazz or Bill O'Reilly or Moveon.org say...

Because afterall you've managed to latch on to the brilliant theory that if a certain select number of individuals do something - then that means the are reflectivce of the whole...

Jesus people get over your hypocritical anti-French attitudes!!!!

Bobby, when you can have an argument that makes sense and isn't ripe with ridiculous commentary it might actually demonstrate your point a little bit better. Using statements like "always" and "never" and terms like "hate" are bad tools to use when trying to make a point as they are easily discounted. Cheers isn't the best place to get your cultural infomation. Making broad statements like "The French hate us." is a bit much, don't you think?

And ASUADPI, since when are the journalists for certain sports newspapers the voice for an entire nation? When they are, your statement might actually hold some validity, so until then, I rest my case in saying that it's not the "French people" doing the witch hunt.

E.T.A. Thanks RACooper...I think we posted around the same time. It's nice to see people who don't think journalists are the voice for a nation.:)

The other testing is a good step; and hopefully they'll find an answer to the doping problems in the sport. I think the Pantani death was really a wake-up call for cycling as a whole.

Hopefully, the mitigating factors that KSigRC mentioned will also be taken into account when they assess his samples. If he's guilty, fine, but it should by no means be on a technicality.

The perception at least is that Armstrong has been targeted by the European media; first the reports in the London papers, the book that alleged doping, and now the newspaper reports out of France. Cycling on a whole has been under a microscope, and the perception at least seems that Armstrong is under even more of one. Winning the Tour de France as often as he has (and yes, I realize there are many more cycling events around the world), especially after being sick, has caused more questions with every title.

Hopefully the answer comes out, whatever it may be.

I think you need to realize that Bobby rarely says anything that should be taken completely seriously. He is just a joking guy who likes to try to lighten the tense moods in situations like this. I find it hard to believe that Bobby would actually care enough about this situation to post seriously.

Bobby, I don't mean to speak for you but I took your post as almost completely joking and I think everyone else should too. ;)

There was an SI article about this today.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

Thanks...didn't need a Bobby translator, but his comments weren't really adding anything of substance to the discussion anyhow.

I had this whole arguement typed but I have decided to just delete it.

Your comments (which I feel are attacks on my opinion) aren't going to change my opinion.

So how about we agree to disagree?

I am going to admit that I went overboard in blaming all the French! My bad...

But how many times can you say that Lance was using drugs, and have us believe you? Like I said, the man has passed so many tests, that I have to side that he didn't boost his performance.


Plus, can you really trust a sample sitting on ice (or whatever way the "saved" it. Why were they saving it in the first place?!?!?) for six years???

Move on. He is retired...Let him live with the six titles under his belt and find someone else to complain about. (Like baseball steroid users!)

Um.... I wasn't trying to translate. But you obviously didn't understand that he was just kidding around. It doesn't have to add substance to the discussion... It's just funny. Relax. :)

OMGIVENEVERBENTOFRANCEBUTTHEYDON'TLIKEDUBYASOITHIN KALLFRENCHPEOPLEARE BAD.

Insularity. GC has it in spades.

I read an article about the allegations, and I think they're bogus--especially since he took EPO during his treatment. The mere fact that after being sick, he is able to compete at all is a success story.

Oh those darn French...now they are sticking up for Lance...Oh!! I forgot they ALL hate him right? http://msn.foxsports.com/cycling/story/4815616

:cool:

whoa whoa. what part of my post where I said, " I THINK It's just a joke more than anything" did you miss?

Go untie your panties.

There is no substance to this discussion? Ofcourse I didn't add any substance to the discussion. I don't care to. If I really did state my opinion, it just be exactly as how you feel. I feel the French shouldn't be catagorized as a whole. But I am making fun of the situation.

You don't have to find it funny. You don't have to. As Bobby Brown would say, that is your perogative. You may love to get into discussions about Lance Armstrong and the French. I can really care less. When I want to make light of a situation I will do so. Don't be calling me out for something petty and stupid when I blatantly said I was joking earlier.