Mrs. Sheehan speaks
 

What are we to make of Mrs. Sheehan's demand for a second meeting with President Bush? She claims she wants an explanation of why her son died, but she acknowledges that her mind is already made up. This is an excerpt of a speech she gave Monday, as transcribed on the Web site of an outfit called Veterans for Peace, describing how she conceived of her protest (quoting verbatim):

I'm gonna tell them, "You get that evil maniac [the president] out here, cuz a Gold Star Mother, somebody who's blood is on his hands, has some questions for him."

And I'm gonna say, "OK, listen here, George. #1, you quit, and I demand, every time you get out there and say you're going to continue the killing in Iraq to honor the fallen heroes by continuing the mission; you say, except Casey Sheehan.'_"

"And you say except for all the members of Goldstar Families for Peace' cuz we think not one drop of blood should be spilled in our families' names. You quit doing that. You don't have my permission."

And I'm gonna say, "And you tell me, what the noble cause is that my son died for." And if he even starts to say freedom and democracy' I'm gonna say, bullshit.

You tell me the truth. You tell me that my son died for oil. You tell me that my son died to make your friends rich. You tell me my son died to spread the cancer of Pax Americana, imperialism in the Middle East. You tell me that, you don't tell me my son died for freedom and democracy.

Cuz, we're not freer. You're taking away our freedoms. The Iraqi people aren't freer, they're much worse off than before you meddled in their country.

You get America out of Iraq, you get Israel out of Palestine

- quoted in Opinion Journal

While I respect Mrs. Sheehan's grief, and the need to act out on it, I can't help but wonder if she realizes how many hundreds of thousands of men already died, just so she could have the privilege of protesting the way she is.

Sooner or later, she's going to realize that nothing she says, nothing she does, is going to change the fact that her son enlisted, and was not drafted, and that life will go on. I hope she finds peace in her journey, without hurting those around her.

Good points, honeychile.

This woman's loss of her son has been turned into a travesty by the folks who are controlling her.
How very cynical of them. They don't care about Casey, or Mrs. Sheehan, but they do care about advancing their hatred of the President.

FYI- she is now saying that she should not have to pay taxes ever again.... Because he son died.

I'm terribly terribly sorry that her son was killed, but she is bordering on exploitation now. I have no respect for that.

As a veteran myself, I find it awful hard to believe that she wasnt prepared for this.

Guess what, Ma? The military's purpose is to serve the country. Sometimes, that means going to war. Sometimes, going to war means people die for your freedom. Period.

If you dont like the way the country is being run, GTFO. Your son did a noble thing, and you're stepping all over his name and his grave by making it look like the work he did was trash. I'll bet he's frowning down at your stupiditiy right now.

Nobody has to agree with me. Nobody has to agree with anybody when it comes to war and politics. But the fact remains that the military is a vital part of this countries survival, and the freedom that we have. The people who have the courage to go into the military GIVE YOU the freedom to talk your trash about the government. Those people know of the risks of joining the service and those who claim they dont didnt do their research and they are idiot (Weekend Warriors who are pissed off about going into active duty, I'm talking to you).

I'll never forget the day that, 2 months after returning from the middle east, how some @$$hole asked me if I was proud of serving in Vietnam #2. I couldnt believe the audacity of him to say such a thing. Guess what people? We have freedom here because of our troops, and along with that freedom is your right to leave. Be glad you arent in a surpressed country where you cant leave without fear of persecution. You should be thankful for what you've got here in the US - and if you aren't, then flee to canada like the coward that you are (no knock on canada, just using a very common example).

Ma needs to get off her soapbox and get over it. Nothing she says or does is going to bring her son back. She doesnt want to pay taxes anymore? Makes you wonder if she's a deadbeat looking for attention.

I thought this deserved to be quoted. I agree with you, and congrats to have the guts to say what you feel. There are so many loud mouths with bad things to say about the war, our government, and our president. It is nice to see someone be so outspoken for the other point of view. Thank you.

Thanks, Bush!
 

I think you all should just shut your traps and leave the grieving mother alone. :rolleyes:

Re: Thanks, Bush!
 

And I think the greiving mother needs to actually do some grieving rather than getting her 15 minutes of fame in the spotlight. Other grieving mothers have managed to do so, why's it so hard for her?

Yeah, Thanks Bush! And thanks to the rest of the folks out there who were smart enough to keep him in office!

www.protestwarrior.com <-- Kick@$$ site

Re: Thanks, Bush!
 

When you need a press secretary to simultaneously grieve on CNN, MSNBC and Fox, you're fair game.

Re: Re: Thanks, Bush!
 

I wonder what she's going to do in 3 weeks when he goes back to D.C. Hopefully she'll just stop, but I doubt it.

Also, since when did she become the expert on the Isreal/Palestine issue??? How is that at all relevant to her son's death? Soapbox much, lady?

Re: Re: Thanks, Bush!
 

That's exactly what I'm thinking.

I may not agree with you politically, but I do respect you, especially because you served our country. However, comments like that bother me a bit. After all, you fought for our freedom to disagree with our government (among many other things, of course). So the idea that the US should be homogenous and totally behind our government just doesn't follow. I do understand your points about her milking her fame and all... and for someone to speak to you about "Vietnam #2" is totally out of line. I just don't really appreciate being told to leave if I don't agree with the current administration. That's all.

I feel bad for her.
 

As a mother of three, I don't ever, ever, want to know what pain this lady is experiencing. :( But when I hear about her asking not to have to pay taxes... that's suspect. Sad as this is, no compensation will ever bring him back - so why ask for one - esp. when he chose to enlist in the military? :( I could see if we were drafting.... At this point, I don't think she's acting rationally at all & is probably running on sheer rage. Those closest to her should advise her to refrain from making any further public statements until she & her family has had some time to heal.

Agree 100% with this. Last thing I checked, they said we were fighting this war for freedom, among other things. Seems that people like to conveniently "forget" that. I'm not sure where along the line the concept of freedom became so selective.

If we don't have the freedom to disagree with this country and people are telling those who disagree to GTFO, then what on earth are these men and women fighting for?

Let me ask you something. If you're one of those people who simply does not agree with anything our government does, WHY are you staying? Oh wait, I forgot. You're staying because you have the FREEDOM to stay, and quite frankly, the freedoms that are given to us are pretty damn good. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and among all, freedom to soak up the benefits of what this country has to offer, but yet some people are still never satisfied.

My comment was directed towards people who were so shallow and so immature that they cant see past the war to the other benefits that we have. There was a thread last year, right after the elections, people where saying "oh god, if Bush gets re-elected, I'm fleeing this country." PUH-LEASE. If you can find another place in the world that gives you the same privileges, then by all means, go for it.

If you dont like the way the government is being ran, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, rather than just bitching and moaning. On a very small scale version of this, I was personally having issues with my school's student government association. Rather than piss and moan about it, I did research, I asked questions, I lit a fire up under their butts and have actually been offered a position on the council now. While that might not be anything compared to the US government, there is something to learn for it.

The US is a very Coke Versus Pepsi kinda place - Conservative or Liberal (even if you're technically somewhere in between, most people realize that in order to get someone semi-decent in office, you might as well vote for one of the majority, cause if you're libertarian and vote libertarian, you're really just throwing your vote away from someone who actually had a shot of winning office - Hello Mr. Perot!) You don't HAVE to like the "current administration"....but if you HATE it THAT much, then why dont you actually get off your butt and do something about it? Or, as I mentioned earlier, be a coward and run. You have the freedom to leave. That's why America is so great.

Unfortunately, some people take the GTFO comment a little to literally. Yeah, I mean it, because honestly, if I HATED something SO MUCH that i had nothing better to do with my time than piss and moan about it, I probably would leave. But the fact remains that aside from the war, and whatever other miniscule issues you have with the government, we all have it pretty darn good. Sometimes you gotta make sacrifices for the overall good. My problems with the government dont involve the war. My problems involve welfare, abortion and affirmative action. I think all three need to go out the window - but I'm not SO passionate about those 3 aspects that I "hate" our country - because I know that there are other benefits keeping me here, and I know that I cant have "my way" 100% of the time. Too bad too many other people can't grasp that concept either.

You're joking right.

You might want to check this out.
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

Oh, yeah...there's more where that came from. The UK, doesn't even have a constitution and they're people enjoy the same types of rights and freedoms as you do.

The US is not the last bastion on "freedom and democracy".

I think the frustration lies in the fact that there are people who, whenever ANYTHING happens in this country that they don't like, say "That's it, if this happens I'm leaving." There's constant talk by these people that if so and so happens, they're leaving the U.S. It could be taxes, elections, judicial appointments, whatever.

That's fine, if people want to leave they are free to do so. There are many other parts of the world where they can go and continue to live out the rest of their lives. It just gets a little annoying when that becomes people's rallying cry.

This isn't a Democrat/Republican thing either. I've heard Republicans use the same terms when talking about the possibility of Hillary Clinton being President.

I think her response - to protest only after her son died - is typical of most people. Generally speaking, we only react to things when they touch us personally. Think of all the terrorist bombings that happened in Israel. Then think of 9/11. Which one did you personally feel more? It's no shame to admit it was the latter - it's how humans are wired.

But the thing that galls me the most about the President and his refusal to meet with a grieving citizen is his response to the question of why he won't meet with her:

"I think it's important for me to be thoughtful and sensitive to those who have got something to say. But I think it's also important for me to go on with my life, to keep a balanced life ... I think the people want the president to be in a position to make good, crisp decisions and to stay healthy. And part of my being is to be outside exercising. So I'm mindful of what goes on around me. On the other hand, I'm also mindful that I've got a life to live and will do so."

He couldn't be bothered to skip a farking BIKE RIDE to meet with a grieving citizen? To say that he "has a life to live" and has to "get on with his life" in response to Mrs. Sheehan is incredibly callous, and shows that this man either has absolutely no clue, or that he just flat out doesn't care that over 1700 Americans have died for a lie. Someone justify that response to me. Seriously - justify that it was more important for him to go on a bike ride rather than to seriously address this woman's concerns.

I support the troops. I want them home, and intact. And I applaud Mrs. Sheehan for being brave enough to put a human face to the suffering families whose sons, daughters, wives, and husbands won't be coming home and whose names will likely never be known.

He's already met with her once.... He can't just stop everything and make sure she is satisfied. If he did that with everyone in the country who is unsatisfied and wants to talk, then he would never get anything done. I realize I don't know everything about ANY situation, but I just don't see any reason why he should meet with her again.

I think this is very true. I feel very lucky to live here. There are definately some issues that I don't agree with and most likely never will, but I still support the decision-makers of our country, and just trust that they know more than I do. And this is true for me no matter what "party" is in the White House.

Interesting turn of events....
 

Chill out, Captain Canada, I'd imagine it was hyperbole.

I seriously doubt anyone was inferring that Canada or the UK (two long-time allies of the US) are somehow anti-freedom or anti-democracy. Let's not turn this into a northern-border pissing contest - any sort of nationalistic vitriol should be considered trolling in threads that don't involve such sentiments directly.

That wasn't the intention. But I found her comment to be quite ignorant nontheless.

:rolleyes: At least I'm not too ignorant to read the rest of the thread. KSigkid and KSig RC both made good comments that could have clarified for you. Just because you took the comment too literally is not my problem. Anyone with half a brain can understand that...

Why do we have to be so rude to each other? Can't we agree to disagree?

That's only true if you live in a swing state. If you live in a state that's not, and you believe in an alternate candidate, then voting for a major candidate is throwing your vote away. This is because you're helping to prevent your beliefs from getting federal matching funds during the next election cycle.

Sistermadly is right about the fact this mother didn't do anything until her son was killed. She knew he was going to war as a VOLUNTEER. That's right, he VOLUNTEERED to serve this country and trained for the possiblity of war, whether you believe it's justified or not. He wasn't drafted. I empathize with her being an ex-military brat whose father was in the Pentagon on 9/11. I feel a small bit of her pain the pain she feels. Everyday my heart hurts when I watch the news and hear of another solider killed. I was fortunate to be able to spend time with the wounded soliders at Walter Reed the last two holiday seasons. Not one I met thought he/she could have died in vain... not one. And although I am sorry for her pain, I am frankly sick to death of this woman. She annoys the hell out of me. She is making a mockery out of her son. She had her chance to speak with the president. He doesn't OWE her an explaination. He apoligized. What does she want? His blood, his first born? Will that make it better? And so that the president doesn't make a mockery out of this woman's son, we must stay the course and finish what we started so he and all the others killed didn't die in vain. That will be the consolment for all the other parents who greive. I may not necessarily agree with everything that the president does, but I support him as the ELECTED leader and I support the troops. And I don't think that this woman saying her son died IN VAIN is the message that we want to send the rest of the troops.

Co-sign. Thank you for that intelligent and reasonable post.

No one WANTS to go to war. We all wish we could live in a society where it is just not necessary. Unfortunately, we do not. I personally feel that if they back out of the war now, it will send a signal of weakness to those who cause these terrors.

Re: Interesting turn of events....
 

One of my good friends from college lives on a ranch right by the Bush ranch.... I'm trying to get ahold of him to see how they have been affected.

Mrs. Sheehan has the right to say and do anything she wants (within the law, of course) as far as I am concerned. I can't begin to understand the grief she must be feeling and she should deal with it however is best for her.

However, I can't help but feel that this whole brouhaha is not of Mrs. Sheehan's doing. I feel like the liberals latched on to her and are trying to make her into a "symbolic grieving mother" which is not the same as a mother who is in grief. It's not about Mrs. Sheehan, it's about their agenda and they're using her as a puppet. That's terrible and exploitative.

For the record, I detest this practice whether it's liberals or conservatives doing it. The press conference President Bush held where he was surrounded by children who had grown from frozen embryos turned my stomach.

As far as Mrs. Sheehan, I sincerely hope that she eventually finds the peace she deserves.

I said almost the same thing last night. I think that she is being exploited to further an agenda. I think that she is operating on raw emotion, and she would benefit from some grief therapy. She should be surrounded by friends and family and people who have her best interest in mind.

I also hope that she finds peace. I feel very sorry for her and her loss.

I think that the President should take a few minutes to meet with her in private. He can express his sympathy for her loss and end this media frenzy. It might help mend some fences with the opposition.

Maybe he could meet with her again. But, honestly I don't think it would mend fences. I think that if he did that, then they would just find another thing to demand and complain about.

It amazes me how once calm, level-headed mothers (regardless of political affiliation, as some of the most emotional are the ones who supported the war back in 2003) who have lost sons to war will say and do. She is operating off of raw emotion--just like a lot of the family friends who have lost children are acting. Believe me, she's not the only one; she's just the only one who is getting so much media scrutiny.

I dunno you guys & gals...
 

Did this war really start because of 9/11?

Many folks are thinking this was a conspiracy. You insight a lunatic to pile drive planes into buildings and his cronies are crazy enough to do it...

But not many of the gang members really came from Iraq... We just took the gang war to them and they are killing our service personnel daily...

Some folks think that we are training "insurgents" to kick our asses in Iraq... They can beat our butts out there...

And the longer we stay with these "convoys" following "Geneva Convention", the more we are going to lose service personnel...

And who is making money off this "joint venture" really? Because wars--if you win them--make money... Right now, gas prices are outta this world... And Halliburton stock is dropping... And I'm a firm believer that the "value" of money is not created or destroyed, it just changes from one hand to another... The only folks profiteering off our fighting is probably the Pacific Rim--'cuz what are they fighting right now? North Korea not aiming ICBM's to Seattle? Keep telling yourself that... :rolleyes:

And if we really wanted to nail Iraq, then it's time to make a clean slate and lay waste them... And call it to end the card game... No sense in allowing IED's bashing the isht outta our Abrams tanks... Their BS plastic explosives cannot fight a daisy cutter or a simple nuke... And I don't give a dayum about Iran and their asses... But you solve your insurgent problem in Iraq for a bit of time...

After that, the UN may have a nice talk with us along with the EU... But they tried that diplomatic isht with Iran and now Iran's building nukes...

I really think Bush ALLOWED US to bite off more than we could chew...

We haven't solved the Afghanistan issue, yet...

And we've got a Pakistani-Kashmir-India issue...

And soon we've got to deal with the Israeli's on the Gaza Strip in some form...

And if North Korea doesn't lose their minds, we've got to make sure that our missile defense sheild from the Reagan era Star Wars works--okay, I guess...

Either way... Ain't nunna of us living thru these "last days" once the nukes go off...

"Everybody's got the bomb and it will go off any day/But before I let that happen/I will dance my life away"

"Mommy? Why does everybody have a bomb?"

Prince, 1999

This is a slight hijack/off the topic post, but something I've noticed with mothers of Vietnam vets is there was an assumption by many that their sons wouldn't come back. My father, father-in-law and many of my father's friends went to Vietnam, and in almost of all cases their parents sold many of their belongings. The assumption was that there was a good chance their sons wouldn't be returning.

This is purely an observation, so I'm not sure how credible my small sample size is, but I thought it was interesting.

You're right, Mrs. Sheehan is absolutely not the only one - all one need do is go to an anti-war protest anywhere in the country, and you're likely to run into someone who feels the same way that she does.

Both sides are using her to push their agenda. The anti-Bush camp using her sentimentally. The pro-Bush camp using her by saying that the anti-Bush camp is exploiting her. both sides don't give a damn about her.

I can definitely see this from both sides. Her son signed up to be in the military, so he knew there was a chance he wouldn't come back. However, if we were fighting a just war, then his death would not be in vain. This "war" is totally ridiculous now. At first it was Afghanistan. Then Iraq with these mysterious WMDs. Now we're trying to train Iraqis. We're never going to be out of Iraq... my brother-in-law is about to leave for Iraq and he says they are building permanant bases there, so it looks like we definitely won't be pulling out any time soon. It's probably a good thing since we've made such a mess :rolleyes:

Anyways, back to the topic: I agree that she has been exploited. My thoughts are with her and everyone who has lost someone in this dumb war.

She doesn't have an agenda. So what if she has linked up with MoveOn.org.

-Rudey

Again? He has yet to meet with her.