CU fraternities defy deferred rush rules, go off campus
 

Frats plan rush, despite ban

Exposure difficult without use of CU campus facilities

By Elizabeth Mattern Clark, Camera Staff Writer
July 18, 2005

Boulder fraternities used to fill the University of Colorado's Farrand Field each fall with an "open house," drawing hundreds of potential members from their dorm rooms.

Now the groups are scrambling to find an off-campus place, perhaps the Boulder Theater, for the introductory event that leads into rush week.

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Also banned from the campus beginning this summer are fraternity booths at orientation sessions, Greek Week football games and any other fraternity functions.

Insisting on a fall rush, or recruitment period, has cost the off-campus fraternities their affiliation with CU. After a freshman Chi Psi pledge died of alcohol poisoning last fall, university leaders demanded that Greek groups delay their recruitment until the spring or lose all ties to the school.

The banishment from campus offices, fields and, eventually, CU's Web site, will make it tougher for the groups to get the attention of new members, said Ryan Lynch, a student vice president for the Inter-Fraternity Council.

University officials also are planning to send letters to parents of freshmen, encouraging them to keep their teenagers from joining fraternities until their second semester.

Whether the lack of recognition by CU will affect membership "remains to be seen," Lynch said. "It just means we have to push harder to get the information out."

Fraternities say they aren't budging from their regular fall rush, Sept. 11-17.

"We're working really hard to overcome the situation the university has put us in," said Austin Rial, president of the Theta Xi house in Boulder. "But most of the exposure we get is in the fall anyway, come rush time, by wearing our shirts and talking to kids in class and word-of-mouth."

Sororities, which agreed to the spring rush and are allowed to use campus spaces, have been setting up tables at orientation sessions. They reported that most freshmen stopping to talk to them this summer aren't even women — but men interested in joining fraternities, Lynch said.

"We're optimistic, considering that response," he said. "It shows the interest is still there."

Brandon Ricks, a freshman from Colorado Springs who attended orientation last week, said he didn't hear anything about fraternities and wouldn't be interested anyway.

"If it wasn't so expensive, I'd think about it," he said.

The Inter-Fraternity Council has moved out of the campus Greek Affairs Office and into the Theta Xi house. The campus office now represents sororities only.

And CU officials have removed some of their Web references to fraternities, though the main site for Boulder chapters and rush schedules — www.coloradogreeks.com — was still linked Friday from the school's Greek Affairs Office page.

Ron Stump, vice chancellor for student affairs at CU, said the link was an oversight and will be removed.

University officials say the Greek groups need to give freshmen more time to adjust to college life before introducing the social pressures of joining a house. Chapter leaders say deferring their recruitment would cut their fee-paying memberships and make it more difficult to develop future leaders.

Re: CU fraternities defy deferred rush rules, go off campus
 

Does anyone know if the sororities are allowed to give any sort of info about fraternity rush and such?

I'm also wondering if the University is going to take issue with the sororities having events with the fraternities since they aren't recognizing the fraternities, but they are recognizing the sororities. I do realize that the University can't really say who they can socialize with, but they really can't make them defer recruitment either. Didn't another public university lose a battle like this when the fraternities sued over the right of Freedom of Association?

AGDee, you are absolutely right. This is as close to perfect a definition of academic bs as it is possible to imagine. The University of Colorado's football program has been in the news for using hookers as recruiters...but the academic administrators can't or won't do anything about that. Their liberal community has been nationally embarrassed by rogue lunatic and pretend "professor" Ward Churchill - chairman of the ethnic studies department - who tells national audiences that the 9-11 victims are "little Eichmans"....but the politically correct administrators are terrified to do anything about that. So, what DO they do? In their impotent frustration and frantic obsession to attack someone, they choose the soft target - like Al Qaeda car bombing a day care center - and go after the most traditional campus organizations in the state: college fraternities.
Yes, AGDee, you are right: the University has no right to do what they are doing. It flies in the face of the hard-fought victory inherent in the 1996 Freedom of Association Act. I hope - I pray - that the chapters are being advised by NIC attornies to document actual financial damages.

Just to keep the record straight:

The Athletic Director at Colorado during those incidents is gone along with some other members of the Athletic Department. Officially, I think he resigned, but in reality, he was fired. The football coach survived, which is amazing.

The Chancellor is also gone as I recall. I think the President is also gone (I think former US Senator Hank Brown, a Delt from C.U. is the Interim President -- he is former President at the University of Northern Colorado, and was very supportive of the Greek System there)

And, let's be honest, a pledge is dead. This can't be entirely laid at the feet of the administration.

It's probably fair to say that they may be using that to deflect attention from the other problems, but the Greek System in Boulder has enough of its own to go around.

Thanks for the update. Didn't realize that they have cleaned house to the extent that they have; perhaps the administrator who tried to impose deferred rush is gone too.
I'm aware that a Chi Psi pledge died from alcohol poisoning. Young people often do foolish things, and in a population of that size, once in awhile there is going to be tragedy. Blaming college fraternities is an easy target, and an attack that resonates in an academic culture eager to make Ward Churchill chairman of a department. When someone is killed by a drunk driver, no one realistically expects the drinking age to be raised to 70 and the speed limit lowered to 21. I have never liked bullies, and mid-level college administrators tend to try to bully the kids.
I'll concede two points to you: first, I do think that there is a different drinking culture in college today, different than when we were in school. back in the day, it was considered a virtue to be able to hold your liquor. Today, the trend in some cases seems to be to try to get drunk as quickly as possible.
Second. I think Colorado may be something like Florida (where I am) in that both states are wide open, wild and wooly, almost anything goes. I remember asking a friend of mine who had visited a great Greekcampus in the heartland (Kansas I think). I asked him how our chapter would compare on that campus. he thought about it for a moment and said, "If we were magically transported overnight and set down in the middle of that campus, two thinks would happen probably in the course of one week. First, we would absolutely dominate every competitive phase of fraternity life: sports, rush, sororities, everything. Our aggressiveness would frighten them. The second thing that would happen that week is that the university would kick us off campus and tell us never to return."
Deltalum, I can remember not too many years ago when your great chapter at Florida told your national office to buzz off (some issue to do with hazing), and the entire membership walked out. That was well over 100 men. I don't remember all the details but it was a big deal becasue the Delts were so strong. I think the members came back, but on their own terms or at least with some sort of compromise, and the Delts contirue to be great at Florida. My point is that Florida's not really a "southern" state like Alabama or Mississippi any more than Colorado is really a "heartland" state like Kansas or Nebraska. That reality presents an entirely different set of problems to the typical chapter advisor at those schools.

Re: Re: CU fraternities defy deferred rush rules, go off campus
 

Good question.

Frankly, I don't know why the sororities would not be able to do so. Unless there is a specific NPC rule that states that discussion during orientation sessions can *only* be about NPC recruitment. Like what if someone came up to ask about NPHC intake or perhaps asked about any other organization *associated* with campus life, but not necessarily an 'official' campus recognized organization. I venture to guess that they should be able to discuss these as well.

In the meantime, the IFC chapters should pool the resources of all the chapters and buy print ads in the campus paper promoting IFC rush. As well as issue press releases and submit letters to the editor discussing IFC rush. Free *good* publicity can go a long way.

And...have someone take a look at the letter that the University sent out to parents "warning" them to keep their sons from joining fraternities.

Print it and Put a Link If Possible!

WOW, this is Deep DooDoo Stuff!:rolleyes:

A Supplied Via either State or Federal $$s is doing This?:confused:

Will be interesting "IF" The Greeks so want to fight it as a Class Action as It Should Be.

Descremination? Maybe The Friggen ACLU will Step In? Yeow Right!:rolleyes:

I sure hope that some IFC lawyers on top of this.

Depending on the wording, the letter may actually *help* get the word out that there are fraternities having rush in the fall. Now wouldn't that be a hoot!

Princeton did something like this and it completely backfired - I think the sororities got their largest pledge classes ever.

I can easily see something like that happening at Colorado.

why not just have defered rush? the sororities are doing it....why not the guys too? we all have deferred rush and we are fine with it. we recruit sops and up in the fall and can take freshman in the spring. it works nicely for us all.

what a mess!
you would think they would organize ways for solutions versus just shoveling more stuff...
it's obvious there have been problems. but this makes no sense.

Posted by dznat187...
"Why not just have defered rush? the sororities are doing it....why not the guys too? we all have deferred rush and we are fine with it. we recruit sops and up in the fall and can take freshman in the spring. it works nicely for us all."


Dear Dznat187:
Part of the answer lies in the fact that men are very competitive by nature. Men and women do not think at all alike when it comes to rush. Women's rush is highly controlled and structured. Men's rush has few rules and success often depends on hustle. Fraternities can pledge as many or as few men as they want, and the chapters can grow as large as they want. It's a free enterprise system in which any individual fraternity is free to win, or to fail.
In that atmosphere of free competition and free enterprise, it's infuriating to have an administrator make an arbitrary decision which, one suspects, is based on a their desire to preen for the camera and use fraternities as scapegoats.
Set aside the probability that the university's decision is illegal. Apparently, their decision applies to no other student organizations. Freshmen can still play varsity sports, can still join the various religious and political organizations, and yes, even social organizations. They're told they can participate in anything as freshmen, they just can't join an IFC fraternity.
Why don't the sororities just be like the men? Why can't a sorority be as large and as dominating as they want? Why can't they pledge as many girls as they want? The answer is: because they don't want to be in that environment. Men instinctively establish heirachy, within each group, and among the fraternities themselves. Women instinctively establish cooperation in order to maintain stability and security.
So..."why not just have deferred rush?" Because if I was at Colorado I'd want my fraternity to dominate, and that means I'd want to pledge as many top men as I could as quickly as possible.
The very fact that I want to do that is reason enough.

DZNat,

Coming from a Millersville greek your statement is hilarious. I'd like to point out the Sept. 26th edition of the SNAPPER (MU's student paper) from 1997 where all of your MILLERSVILLE greeks fought like hell to get elected to student government offices to GET 1RST SEMESTER FRESHMAN PLEDGING since they didnt like the system in place. After the Greek students ran for office and consequently WON they enacted the changes to abolish the discriminatory 12 credit pledge rule. But the college told them that a march 1967 faculty senate memo said that wasnt a good idea... and no student could overturn a faculty memo for any reason.... despite how old it was....

And to think colleges are about activism and making changes...

Also as far as Millersville, I recall all my friends from MU's Sig Tau back in the day saying how the sororities "ratted" out the fraternities for "ghost pledges" (illegal freshman pledges according to the school) since they (the sororities) were mad they couldn't do it/ or perhaps just couldn't get away with it.

So in closing, DZNat, keep on drinking that Millersville Kool-Aid when they serve it up.

Lenoxxx
Shippensburg Univ Grad

Who ever said this? I think colleges are about learning and teaching. But I did not do to a hippie school. Maybe it is different other places...

Firehouse,

A very articulate and well put together post :)

Yes, you've said it near-perfectly.

The master guru of women's college soccer, Anson Dorrance at UNC (think about 18 NCAA titles in 22 yrs.), often writes that one of his challenges is getting the women to compete against team mates - they want to be friends, not competitors. He makes them compete in practices/drills, has assts. keep records of the winners/losers, and posts the results. Similarly, the sororities have an elaborate system, mostly imposed from above, that hides the competitiveness (and mostly insures that the best chapters are never challenged by lessers.)

Among fraternities, there's free enterprise and hustle, and the weeniest chapter can bust their butts and pledge a large bunch. If they can do it two or three years in a row, they become a campus powerhouse.

I suspect that the Univ. has fully gotten the attention of the Colorado fraternity men (and their advisors and natls.), and will do well this fall.

Aside from all the men/women stuff, and aside from the fact that I completely agree that everyone should have deferred rush, in this instance I totally support the fraternities, and here's why.

The students are not making the decision...the admin is...and they are using it as a punishment. They are blaming all the ills of the school on the Greeks pledging freshmen and think that this will cure them, when in reality it's the whole campus itself that's got issues (as can be seen in the many posts about this situation). That's too hard to fix though, so they make this gesture of "doing something" when in reality it will probably not make a bit of difference. What they are doing is the equivalent of, after having arrested 10 students for vandalism, they find out they all ate banana cream pie at the dining hall so banana cream pie comes off the menu. It's that STOO PID.

Shippensburg = hippie school? LOL ROTFLMAO to the infinite power. I know you don't know that because you're not from here but believe me when I say that is the laugh of the day for all the Pennsylvania people.

Lenoxx's point was that the students fought for something and then caved immediately when the admin was against it. Part of learning is having the courage to stand up for what you think is right even if someone in "power" is against it.

But I still don't think college is about activism and making changes

Obviously not a child of the sixties.

Very Obviously to be sure.:(

But, what happened to the days when Student Govt. did have a way to work with The Adm.?

I guess it only works when The Adm. says it does.:(

Basically the whole problems stem from the Organizations who caused it themselves.:( It is two fold isnt it? The Adm. stands back or ignores and the Greeks take advantage of it?

Then all Hell breaks loose.:rolleyes:

Thanks PM_Mama00. Our greek system is very different now than it was even just 2 or 3 years ago. our greek leaders are trying to change things for the positive for greek life, especially working with the campus administration. ive sat down with our campus pres and she is all for supporting greeks, she just needs to know what we need and want her to do. but she also has a responsibility to enforce rules and protect the students and the administration can only work with us as much as we are willing to work with them.

i personally am all for deferred rush, its fine for me. some women may not be ready to be leaders in my group until later in college and if a person can't join as a 1st semester freshman and loses interest before the 2nd semester, they prolly would not have been a very dedicated member anyway. i see alot of groups trying to get freshman right away to pull them in (using partying and guaranteed friendships before they know where to party or have time to make new friends at the school). if this is all we have to offer, then we are screwed. we should be able to appeal to students as much their second semester or after as we do in the 1st weeks of their college careers, if we are really as unique and beneficial as we all say.

also, MU is working on a system that would allow groups that are excelling in the areas of academics, education, risk management, service, and invollvement on campus to take first semester freshmen. Size and quotas are not a factor. This way groups that are doing things well (the way the founders wanted us to) will be rewarded instead of everyone being punished for the actions of a few. In the long run, this will kind of 'weed out' the groups that arent doing what they should or force them to start following the rules and being a benefit to the campus community.


and college is about learning...about learning so we can make it in the real world. and im sorry, but if this was the case of an employer telling his employee that the employee's department should not take new workers directly out of college for whatever reason and the other departments could, i don't think the employee would defy his boss and take them anyway or "fight the man." he would get fired if he did, probably. while it is a different situation, you have to look at it from different perspectives. colleges and students are changing, things are different than they were in the 80s and early 90s. the world is changing around us, why arent greek organizations? (and i don't mean rituals and stuff, i just mean the way we run stuff, approach recruitment, etc.).

i also agree that men and women have different mentalities and opinions on rush and competition. i feel the women see more of the commmunity in the fact that if one group sucks, we all look like we suck. altho, women can be just as vicious when it comes to recruiting/trying to get the same girls. we just have to realize that each group has something different to offer and that should be the selling point for them and should attract different types of people, so we are all not going for all the same people.

also, greeks should be involved in student government stuff before stuff comes up that they want to change. they should care about their school as a whole and not just become a student senator because they want something to benefit themselves. maybe if they showed the benefit for the whole school, it may have gone through. plus they did try non-deferred rush a few years back and most groups did not benefit or even like it.
and right now we have no greeks on senate but we do have some strong leaders willing to work with administration for the benefit of greeks but they also have the whole school in mind while doing so.


also, MU is definately not a hippie school! in general, we just go with the flow until they bring up changing our mascot from a marauder to a parrot......hhahahaha.


lenoxxx - u should probably keep more in touch with your brothers. ur chapter pres is one of the people heading up alot of the changes at MU, when he was agc pres. a really really greek guy. unfortunately, the chapter just got kicked off campus because of some hazing of their new members by a sorority allowed by the brothers, but i think they will be back very soon. they are great group of guys. i was sad to find they let stuff happen that got them kicked off.

Lambda Chi Alpha is still shown as an active organization on Millersville's official website.

Also, as Firehouse touched on, a lot of the objection at CU also has to do with housing costs. These can be worked out with a slow transition from first semester to deferred rush but when it's done this abruptly it can really be disastrous to the groups' money situation. Obviously this is something that Millersville (or Clarion or Ship or Bloomsburg) do not have to deal with, as for the most part we don't have the huge dorm-type houses to fill.

33girl: Listen to what she's saying - AND SHE'S JUST FINE WITH IT! Her school is going to determine just exactly what in their mind makes an acceptable chapter, and then reward or punish non-compliers by allowing some to take new members in the fall and others to be prevented from doing so. And she thinks this is perfectly keen. Dear God. I'm amazed that our nation has reamined free for this long.
It's not up to the university to tell us what was "the way our Founders wanted us to." The Founders of my fraternity did not intend to set up a social service organization. Service is a noble virtue, but it's not the basis of my fraternity. My fraternity belongs to our members, not to the university administration. Here's my offer: let the university administration create a fraternity just the way they want, and let me create my own the way I want. Then we'll see which fraternity the greatest numbers of ambitious men want to join.
33girl, it's not just housing impact. It's the idea of being told that freshmen cannot join, or that we cannot take who we want when we want. If they keep freshmen from participating in ANYTHING, then I can live with that. But if we're the ugly stepchildren to whom freshmen cannot risk exposure, then I raise a hellacious objection to that.
It concerns me deeply that some young students are willing - even eager - to give up control of their own chapters. It's not even that they knuckle under to administrative bullying. The most disheartening thing about dznat187 is her glib embrace of big brother. She doesn't even see it as bullying. To her, the school makes the rules and that's just fine.
Help me out here, 33girl. You've always been the smartest one.

Oh I know it's not JUST housing - I was pointing that out to her as her school is similar to mine and before GC I would have been all "this complaining about your housing money is stupid!" I talked about the other things in my other post - that even though I PERSONALLY am for deferred rush, the crap CU is doing is bogus. If the students decided they wanted to do it that way that would be a different matter.

As for the "smartest" comment - we are getting married later tonight OK? ;)

I'm pming you.

Some fascinating posts.

#1- When did Lambda Chi Alpha get tossed at Millersville? I wasnt aware that my fraternity got closed there. If you thought I was a Sig Tau member, I am not. However I had several High School friends pledge there and we kept in touch over the years to know what were hot button topics to them at MU, thus I actually ahd a copy of that article where Big Brother Millersville shafted free thought and democratic choice for the Greek Students. If MU actually made the changes you describe, I'd be shocked. My suspiscion (sp?) is that they are just telling you something that they will "try to do in the future" and will never deliver. Shippensburg has been well known for the empty promises to the greeks they have made for many many years, similar to the one you have described. Dznat, I am sure you are a dedicated sister of DZ, and I do not mean to insult you by telling you to not drink the Kool Aid. Be very wary of the "Big Brother" system at place at your school. Look up the copy of the "SNAPPER" I described, it is very troubling to see the democratic process get trampled on by a 30 year old memo at your University.

#2- Shippensburg a Hippie School? Perhaps an amish area prep school would be more appropriate. College students EVERYWHERE have always been about change and questioning authority. From anti war demonstrations to boycotts of campus services when student felt that labor unions were getting a raw deal are part of HIGHER learning. I.E question everything and open an honest debate about issues. I live near Penn State, there are rallies on the main street outside of campus every week for a variety of causes, speakers are brought in ranging from Michael Moore to Ann Coulter to push political and social agendas. While I do not agree with all of these I am glad the students are always pushing the boundaries and working to change things, this is and has been the American way. And as to the example of firing an employee over hiring practices, if the people in question didnt like the employment situtiaon enough they might sue the complany for unfair practices. Or if the company wanted to pursue excluding people (NFL v. Maurice Clarett) can they back it up in court?

Thanks

lenoxxx

we are in no way giving over control. deferred rush is just fine for my chapter, in fact it has helped us. i dont see the school as telling us what to do or telling us what our founders wanted ( i guarantee you that most if not all of the npc and nic orgs' founders were dedicated to academics and community/university involvement). dz's founders worked very closely with the administration of their school and much of our organization and ritual and stuff was guided by some members of the administration. this is just us but i feel working with the school is going to get us farther than trying to do our own thing without their support. who's parents are going to want their child to be in a group that is constantly at odds against their university. we are all at college first and foremost for an education, allother experiences are meant to suppliment our education. i just don't see the purpose of my group, personally, in fighting and defying the school when they are willing to help us if we work with them. we are doing what we should and we should not be punished for the acts of others. i feel this new system will really benefit the organizations who are living up to their orgs standards. i forgot to mention that in my explanation. they are going to set up the standards for this system based mostly on the nationals standards. Academics and risk management are a concern from the school's perspective and they will have standards for that-mostly to make sure members are safe and not failing out. i know some people don't like to work with 'the man' or go against what they want to do in order to do what they should, but i guess that is a personal decision and that may or may not have anything to do with the current state of greek life.

also, i agree cu's housing is definately an issue we don't deal with at MU and i was always happy about that. it is a huge liability and also a huge stress-a bad year with recruitment and you cant fill the house, that really sucks. its also not easy from the school's perspective either. our ccd is the greek advisor at F&M inLancaster. they are a private school who just rerecognized their greeks and they are having tons of issues with the condition of the fraternity houses. some were even condemned by the city that added a lot of stress on the school with finding those students other housing etc.

as for ther LXA chapter, the decision was just made after the end of the semester and i don't know if nataionals are closing the chapter. as far as i know they are kicked off campus but i dont know for how long, etc. it sucks cuz they were the best fraternity on our campus. but there are things you can't let happen.... hopefully they can recover from it.

also, i do know the school is working on the new policy to start this fall if posible, but after alot of the issues we had thiss spring, they will have to push it back to the following fall. th eplan is in the works and they have started the eval processes.
and so you know, i am well aware of many of the past issues with greek life, especially stuff covered by the snapper, as i was an editor for all 4 of my years there.

as for the employer example......i meant, if a job required experience or more education, like a doctor or lab tech, it would not be prudent to have an unqualified person in the position putting people at risk, thus an employer might require certain credentials. like the 12 credit rule, as 1st semester freshman have no experience in the college environment. i do feel it is a little backward to allow freshman to join anything but greek orgs heir first semester. but i have yet to hear of working with a student newspaper or radio station or prayer group leading to students failing out or getting hurt. i think that is why administrators are weary of giving greeks everything they want and until we prove that we are just as valuable of an experience as some of these co-curriculars, it is going to be hard for us. i see greek life in general as having gone down hill for many years and at this point we can work with administrators, each other and our national offices to improve overall and return to being an unstopable, unquestionable force in higher ed or we can decide not to, but where is that going to take us?

Yes most people dont care about what is going on in their world in the 2000's. Look at pathetic voter turn out rates. When you have the attitude that the student government and the newspaper will take care of your problems for you, and you shouldnt have to worry about them, Big Brother would be very happy with you indeed. You have now reached the point of carefree apathy, where anything can and might happen to you, with no say. This goes beyond the college world but happens to extend out to the real world as well.

Thankfully our founding fathers didnt have the attitude that they should keep on paying taxes to the King, because it was the 1700's and paying homage to the royals in England was the thing to do, I mean all of the other parts of the British Empire did, why rock the boat?

In closing I suggest that you add the following books to your community college reading list, perhaps they have them in the library.

"Animal Farm" by George Orwell
"Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley
"Fahrenheit 451" by Ray Bradbury

Try to open your minds a little bit out there

Lenoxxx

Phyllis, no offense, but the colleges we are talking about are not commuter schools, so I really don't think the comparison is valid.

If all you get out of college is book learning and a degree, you've really cheated yourself, and I can't believe how many people think that is just OK fine and dandy.

lenoxxx and dznat187,

in reading this posting back and forth, can someone explain to me If Millersville is a Utopian College?

Are the Greeks there treated well as opposed to a concentrated second Social Group of Students?

Actually, dznat187, I do have to side with lenoxxx who has become an Alum of His and My Fraternity as to having a pretty good idea of what is transpiring as He is very active with His Chapter and LXA.

Keeping the pulse of all of GreekDom is a main importance.

So, is one School and one Greek Organization so important? You damn bet it is!:cool:

First of all,

DZnat:

As a current brother of the Lambda Chi Alpha fraternity at Millersville University, I would appreciate it if you would from now on keep your mouth closed until you know what you're talking about. We all know how much you enjoy talking and hearing yourself do so, but enough is enough. In respect to my chapter and general fraternity, you don't know much. You've said it yourself "I don't know if nationals are closing the chapter..." I don't know about you, but I was brought up with the mentality that if I don't know what I'm talking about, don't act like I do. Besides, wherever you got your information regarding our chapter, it was false. Regardless of how much you may personally like to see Lambda Chi kicked off Millersville Campus, we haven't been nor do we plan on such action being the case. *and don't worry too much, we will undoubtedly recover*

However, at least you had the courtesy to limit yourself to your views on Greek activities on campus. I, along with my chapter, will be quite pleased the day we are permitted to initiate freshmen into our beloved organization. We pride ourselves on being mature enough to be able to accomplish our scholarship goals while at the same time maintain a healthy and enjoyable social life. I do hope you were making no insinuations that Greek organizations on Millersville's campus are only looking for good times. While Millersville may set forth requirements for participation in Fraternities/Sororities, we also adhere to our own stringent set of requirements. We do not simply look for guys to join our Fraternity so that we may grow in size. We scour the campus to find the most motivated, mature, dedicated men who will expand our character as well as help carry on the ideals which Lambda Chi Alpha is so proudly based upon.

For those who were wondering, (Tom Earp), NO, Greeks are not treated well, much less equally, on Millersville's campus. Everything we have/want we must fight for. While we have a full-time Greek Advisor employed by the university, communication between the University and our Greek Council is still rather difficult. Oftentimes it is questionable as to why the University pays a man salary to supposedly promote Greek Organizations while it does everything in it's power to prevent Greek growth. However, not all of us are willing to sit back and unconditionally accept what the administration hands to us via outdated memos.

And PM_Mamma -- since when does living in 2000 suggest that one is not pro-change or that it is the American Way? The way I see it the World was created on change, regardless of what your viewpoint is on how it was created. As in all things, change is necessary for growth, and growth is generally good. However, change doesn't just happen on it's own. It needs concious effort. If something or someone is so resistant to growth, than I fail to see it's purpose in existence. Now, while I'm not saying to go kill yourself if you're against change, however, if you don't plan on growing then it might be wise to get out of the way or you'll just keep getting stepped on. And seeing as though Millersville University is trapped inside an extremely conservative region of Southeastern Pennsylvania in which some 4,000 of approximately 7,000 students are commuters, I fail to see the validity in your claims.

You are so COMPLETELY right on this one.

I think Millersville has a decent respect and need for Greeks, but most greeks are too involved in whinning about what we don't have to see what we do, at least from what I've seen which was alot.

saxton216: sorry for the statement, I had heard it from a very valid source so I thought it had been correct. if i am wrong, i apologize. and just so you know, I would never want to see LXA gone at Millersville, it is the one redeeming fraternity that I hope the rest become like eventually.

as for the freshman thing, I feel it would be beneficial to some orgs on our campus, like you, ASA, AZD, etc. but for many it may not benefit the entire greek community, but then again you would never know until it happens. But i do know that my org and others have so many members who are amazing who joined after their freshman year and were able to bring so much more to the chapter and the community.

Also, I hope you all enjoy the rest of this topic, I'm going to bow out now and step away from the hostility i received from greeks, not from the administration.

Good luck all an dkeep the greek community going strong.

Excuse me but what what? I'm wondering if this is a compliment to my sisters or not a compliment - clarification, please?