PNM Ranking Question
 

I have just learned of a different way for potential new members to "rank" sororities at the end of each round of parties. My campus has 4 NPC sororities that participate in a fully structured formal recruitment. At the end of the evening, the PNMs rank 1,2,3,4 in the order they prefer to attend the next day's events. They continue ranking 1,2,3,4 throughout the week.

The way I understand the other way, which is supposedly preferred by NPC, is a "cluster" ranking. If, for example, during the next round of parties, a PNM may attend 3 parties of the four, she would rank 1,1,1,2. Then when it comes to ranking for Preference, she would rank 1,1,2,3. Of course after Preference she would have to go to 1,2,3,4 for accurate bid matching (which we do by hand as well as by computer - PRUSH)

The reasoning that I have heard for this is so that mentally, a PNM isn't thinking about how the sororities rank in her mind - rather thinking about any house that she would be happy with and grouping those together.

I read the old thread on PRUSH vs SORUSH and noticed that DeltaBetaBaby and lagirl33 both made reference to ranking this way. We do PRUSH but the PNMS currently rank 1,2,3,4. Then we turn in invite lists and the computer matches them up and the PNMs get a list of where they are going and we get a list of who is coming.

So my questions are: A - For those of you who do it the way of 1,1,1,2 - do you ever have any problems? Do the PNMs ever think it is weird or complain about it? B - Have any of you ever done it BOTH ways and have any insight to offer as to which is best? C - Does anyone know where it is that NPC has recommended this version?

Thank you!

OOOO I love that 1112 thing. I like that better then 1234 each night. Until the last night. Also, that stops the girls from single intention bidding. (if they wait until the last night to "rank")

Because, you are right how can you go 1234 after ice water tea (or what ever it is called).

I know you had a question. I don't have the answer I just liked the idea and I wanted to express my opinion.

Haha, all of this makes no sense to me! On the first day of our recruitment a PNM can attend 13 houses, then 9, then 5, then 3... and finally they pref. We don't "rank" them until pref day. You find out which chapters have invited you back and then, if you have more invitations than parties, you cut the ones you don't like. All this talk of ranking confuses me! :)

I think that makes WAY more sense than anything else. What's the point of ranking if a girl might end up cut by more houses than she can visit anyway?

My campus also has only four sororities, and we don't do ranking until the last night either. The first two nights, all PNM's attend all parties, and then the third night, they attend up to three, and the fourth night up to two.
On the day of the third parties, the PNM's go to the Student Life Office at a certain time and see where they were invited back...If there are more than 3 that invite them back, they chose one not to attend and the same thing on the fourth night. There is no ranking until after Pref night.

When I rushed in the late 90's, we used that method. After the day's recruitment parties, we ranked our top "number 1's", etc... the next day, we got invites back.

I liked that so much better than the method they used when I was a recruitment counselor-- go to the houses and then go home, come back super early in the morning to learn who has invited you back and select the max number of parties to attend based on those invites.

On one hand, the latter showed girls their options fully, but I think logistically, it was so much extra work. Either method has its pros and cons-- depends on the campus.

The thread on PRUSH vs. SORUSH is relevant here.

I really like this idea of PRUSH ranking. It is more intuitive and seems like it would help PNMs to think less about the arbitrary ranking of sororities that they are uncertain about, and more about how they FEEL about the group in general.

As an aside: Although SORUSH makes a lot of SENSE, some schools have problems with PNMs cutting groups based on who invited them back instead of who they really like. For example, a girl may have liked Sororities 1, 3, and 5 best, but because she is flattered that Sorority 4, a top chapter, has invited her back, she accepts that invite instead. By the end of the week though, Sorority 4 has dropped her and she has lost her chance with a sorority that might have given her a bid.

ETA: Also, I go to a small school where Recruitment participation is not high. With SORUSH, we have a huge problem with getting PNMs to show up every night for the events, let alone getting them to come back a 2nd time during the day to see their invites.

I must state again, my university should be doing this. We only have 4 sororities. Why hasn't my university been doing this. Man, I am gonna go make a stink. There is no reason for the pm to "cut" until it is necessary.

Wow, my eyes are open.

I have a good friend whose entire sorority experience was changed by the phenomenon you're talking about. If she'd just chosen her favorite chapters without knowing who invited her back, she'd never have included XYZ, one of the "Big 3" on campus, among them. But XYZ kept inviting her back, and she was the only one in her rush group to be asked back by one of the "Big 3." She was so flattered and amazed that she'd been "chosen" by this ultra-selective group that she kept going back, even though she actually connected better with women in other groups.

To make a long story short, she ended up as a very dissatisfied XYZ who found that the "Big 3" mystique was all superficiality and cattiness. She had seen that during rush, but she was blinded by the honor of getting that invitation no one else got. If only she'd been asked to cut chapters BEFORE seeing invites...

Thinking back to when I rused at UMaryland in the 1980's I don't think I would have liked to rank my favorite houses FIRST and then see I had been cut by a few at the top of my list.

Maryland had/still has a large greek system and I had a pretty successful rush experience though I did get cut very early by one of my favorite houses.

I feel it would have given me a false sense of security had I ranked that house high. I was a clueless rusher and really truly thought I would pretty much get the house I wanted, the selection process wasn't that big of a deal, etc.

I was FLOORED when I learned about the bid list ranking, the "little things" sororities do to better help them remember which girls they want to keep and which ones they want to cut, etc and had I known all of this, ranking the houses before I got my invites would make me feel like I was jinxing my chances. Kind of like, you rank abc and xyz first and second but ha ha! they cut you.

I prefer making my cuts based on my invites. Though that doesn't really qualify as "mutual" does it? It does give the chapter the upper hand I think unless you're cut hard and don't have any cuts to make.

Very interesting topic.

Hmmm...

This was at last years RUSH but at Long Beach, the girls attend parties at all 7 houses. At the end of the day, they had to cut 3 houses. Once they did, the next day, they attended parties at the remaining houses they did not cut that also did not cut them. Finally on Pref, they attend the house(s) that they did not get cut from.

They changed it from previous years. It went from 3 days + Pref to 2 days + Pref. I guess they thought it would work well & I guess it kind of did & didn't b/c 3 houses didn't make quota & had to hold spring recruitments.

Back in the 80's when I rushed at Illinois, we didn't rank at all until after Pref night. You went to all houses on 1st stage, 24 if I recall. The day after you went to Convocation and received you're list of invites. Then you marked which houses you accepted invites back for 2nd round up to the max # of parties allowed. So forth and so on. I just assumed everybody did this, even here at Bama. Guess I need to check into that.

What's the purpose of ranking before Pref at all? It would just break a PNM's heart if her #1,2&3 or #1,1,2,2 choices didn't invite her back. This way maybe she hasn't even thought quite that far ahead, though that's somewhat unlikely.

Seems like the '1112' ranking works *best* where only one chapter gets *dropped* after a round. Or on a campus with six or less chapters.

Frankly, I just don't see how it would work on a campus with a large number of chapters to the benefit of the PNM. As others have pointed out, too much room for disappointment and cross cutting etc.

Ok, things make more sense now. I guess I'm guilty of forgetting that not all campuses have a large number of Chapters.

While it would definately be easier to do some ranking early on with only 6 or less Chapters I still don't really see the point of why it would be a good thing.

Sorry - long post!!
 

When I went through at Texas in '89, we went back and ranked 1-14 every night. This was then shown to the chapters prior to them making their invite lists for the next rounds. The next day we went back and got our invites (at the crack of dawn) and then either accepted all (if we did not have more than allowed for that round) or cut enough chapters to get to the correct number. They stopped doing this after NPC came in and made a number or recommendations about changing our recruitment overall.

NPC doesn't (at this time) recommend using PRUSH because they feel it starts the women thinking of chapters in term of rank. I think this attitidue may be changing with implemenations of the new release figure method.

When used PRUSH should only be a cluster ranking as described previously - not an actual 1, 2, 3 for all chapters each round. 1, 2, 3 is only done on the bid card.

The thing with PRUSH is that the Recruitment Councilors and all of PH exec really need to be educated as to how it works and what it means for the PNM's. If they don't understand it could cause incorrect counciling. The PNM's need to understand that what they are doing isn't really picking who they will go back to, but those they would like to go back to most. They need to understand that mutual selection is still a part of the process using PRUSH and they may still be attending an event at the chapter they ranked last.

I think that it works well for several reasons.

First, you PH and/or Recruitment Councilors aren't required to stay up till all hours waiting for invite lists and then getting up at the crack of dawn to meet the PNM's so they can choose who they want to go back to and then hurry back to run the event lists so that the chapters can have them well before the events start.

Second, I do think that it helps some women save face when it comes to which chapters asked them back. If they don't go to XYZ they can always say they ranked them as a 2 b/c they really like ABC, MNO and FFF best.
And as said earlier, they rank in private so they actually rank what they feel and not have as much peer pressure to return to a chapter they didn't like.

When I went through recruitment last year at SLU, the first two days, you went to all sororities (five). After the second night, you had to rank them 1-5. The next day (skit day) you could only go to three parties. You never get to see which of the houses invited you back. If all five invited you back, you only go to your top three that you ranked the previous night. After the third day, you must rank them 1-3. On preference, you can only go to two sororities max. After pref, you can put as many as you want on your bid card ranked in order. I, however, only put the chapter I was invited to pref for. We were highly discouraged against "suicide" ranking, but I just couldn't see myself writing down the name of a chapter that had already cut me. The way I saw it, if they didn't want me, then I didn't want them. I am so happy with ADPi and it all worked out :)

I don't know if I explained this system very well. I hope my explanation made sense!

They voted last year to change rush but the members of Panhellenic voted against it. It would have made rush not favor the larger houses. The premise was that Rush would be held on campus instead of the houses. Each house would each have a limited # of girls representing her house. They would be set up in individual rooms. That way, girls would not base any decisions based on what the sorority houses look like or how many actual members there are (I know this sound stupid but you've all been there so you know how it can be). The girls would then tour the houses on Day 2. The day after is Pref.

This sounds like a good idea in theory but I can understand why members voted against it. Having rush on campus and limiting the number of actives participating would (hopefully) faciliate growth across the board and encourage smaller chapters. (No PNMs choosing a chapter based on the biggest house and cutting groups solely because they were smaller.) But on the other hand, I can see there being a lot of backlash from larger chapters. (Why should they have to change the way they recruit members just because it's not working for other chapters?) And how do you determine which women get to recruit? Do all members vote when only a limited number of members are interacting with the PNMs? Are they not allowed to tell PNMs what their total is?

We did formal rush on campus in classrooms for this reason (our houses were all off campus and varied GREATLY in size/accoutrements etc). However, we didn't limit the amount of sisters - everyone was there. This is with 50 person max chapters, however.

I was talking with a friend of mine - she just got through writing recommendations - and the subject of preference ranking came up. She said that on some campuses (usually small), it is possible for a PNM to list on her preference card a chapter even if she didn't attend their preference party. That this 'extra' ranking shows interest and is often used for determining Snap bids. Is this possible? I would guess that she is rather knowledgeable on the subject since as an alumnae, she has helped with bid matching in the past.

From my understanding, she said there were two situations.

Situation 1: The PNM may - and does - attend up to two preference parties. But on her preference card, she may list a chapter even if she did not attend their preference party. But only as her 3rd choice. I believe she said that the chapter had to invite her to the preference party but she (the PNM) was required to decline (with interest?) one chapter. For example. The PNM receives invitations to the following preference parties: ABC, DEF, GHI. She may only accept two. She attends ABC and DEF. After the preference parties, the PNM lists on her bid card #1 ABC, #2 DEF, *and then* #3 GHI. If the PNM is not placed with ABC or DEF, and she is on GHI's bid list, then the PNM may receive a bid to GHI. Or GHI may Snap bid her.

Note: the PNM is not required to list GHI at all. It is just an option open to her. However, if she does, she must rank ABC and DEF above GHI. Even if after the preference party round, the PNM found that she did not like DEF at all, she would be required to rank DEF above GHI.

Situation 2: The PNM may attend up to three preference parties (could be two). However, she only receives invitations to attend two (or fewer than the total number possible) i.e. ABC and DEF. She attends both ABC's and DEF's preference parties and then ranks them #1 ABC #2 DEF. Since there is an *open* spot on the PNM's bid card, she may rank GHI *in the three slot* even though she was released by them. Again, this would just be an option and not required. And she must rank ABC and DEF above GHI.


Two things were stressed. To my friend's knowledge, she did not think that Situation 2 happens on a campus where there is guarantee placement. The other is that while these do not guarantee placement, they can afford the PNM to show interest. And in the case where the chapter had to cut for numbers, and then they do not reach quota, the chapter knows of the PNM's interest and may extend her a Snap bid if they wish.

On my campus you can list on your bid card chapters that you did not visit on pref night. We are a smaller campus, with 4 chapters, and total being 35. It is made very clear to girls that they may put down other chapters on their bid card but that it is unlikely they will get a bid from those chapters as they did not visit them on pref night. However, it does happen that a girl could get matched to her 3rd or 4th choice if she lists all the chapters, mainly because...One chapter on campus has a very hard time at formal rec't (for various reasons) and as a result has very low return rates. Last year they either didn't have or had exactly the number of girls needed to make quota coming to pref. They held one party where other chapters held 2. As a result, they don't have enough girls to make a bid list with the two columns full of names. Thus, they usually put girls they may have seen on the 2nd or 3rd night of rec't down on the off chance they're not matched. (The other chapters don't mind, b/c we want them to survive, and they usually end up with quota somehow) Even if the PNM doesn't list them on the bid card, they still get first chance at snap bidding that PNM. Usually the girls who put down more than the houses they went to on pref night are PNMs who either just went to one house, or who just really want to be in a sorority and will end up anywhere...and this did happen last year.

P.S. Yay for first post!

I would think that situation #1 (even with a small campus) would be tough to enforce. If they have 50 women sign pref cards who is going to go through each of them and check that their first two are the chapters they attended? Maybe the computer does it.

But in regards to situation #1, I would think that it wouldn't be very Panhellenic to make them place their groups in a particular order - even if it is just saying that ABC and DEF have to be 1 or 2.

I have worked with several chapters that allow women to place any chapter they wish on their bid card. Of course the women must understand that if they did not attend or were not invited to that chapters pref they probably will not get a bid. And really, even at a large campus, there isn't anything to stop someone from placing any group on their bid card. Think of Bama with over 1000 going through - who's going to make sure that they went to each group on their card. The computer will take the pref into account, but it's doubtful she will get a bid unless she actually went to their pref. In fact, I would think it could hurt her if she listed a chapter first that she had not been or was not inivted to for pref b/c she would be put on hold until her first choice made quota.

As to snap bids, the Green Book says:

". . . If none of the woman's preferences has matched a fraternity's bid list, the Panhellenic Membership Recruitment Committee may contact the woman and ask if she will accept a bid from a fraternity not previously listed among her choices, provided the fraternity has her name on its bid list. . . ."

The bold is how is it is shown in the Green Book. Remember, snap bids are only given out by those chapters that don't reach quota through regular bid matching. The women eligible are those that are no bids. Technically, if ABC doesn't have her on their bid list, she isn't supposed to get a snap bid from that chapter. They would have to wait until after bids were distributed and COB began to offer her a bid - if she had not already accepted one from someone else.

Guaranteed placement basically makes sure that each woman maximizes her options. If she is able to go to 10 events and is invited to 10 she can't choose to just go to 8 b/c there are two chapters she doesn't like. Same goes for pref. If you must go to two but can go to three - to get guaranteed placement you must go to three and list all three (can't just list two) on your pref card. You are then guarnateed a bid from one of those three.

The problem I have with guaranteed placement is that it only helps the groups that are making quota. If you don't make quota then you won't get any other women from guaranteed placement. So the big get bigger, the medium get big and the small stay small. The new release figure method should help this as more chapter should be making quota.