Defense of Alumni Initiation Sub Forum
 

Some years ago, this Sub Forum was requested by many people on GC.

John Hammell (ADM) decided that it was a right move to come from The Main Alumni Thread as it was getting clutered.

As many can see, there have been many New AIs who may have learned about it through this Thread and are thriving Members of Their Respective GLOs.

But, there seems to be some of the same people who now want to do away with it. I can only guess what the alterior motives are at this time.

Granted some do, some do not and some do it differently. There have been accusations about going AI is for those that did not make it in Undergraduate Recruitment. This is a very malicious thing to be said.

There are many reasons that some people could not attain College status and have turned to AI. Many of the (LOSERS?) can be found on here.

Blowing Sun Shine up somes rear is totally uncalled for. The Current AIs have been through a very tough process and are extolling what they have found.

I have been in contact with John Hammelll about this and have asked Him to extend a Mod Ship as it were to a person who I felt would be a great addition to the Thread.

I nor LXAAlum are offering to step down from the Free Time Position of being Co-Mods of this Sub Forum.

It is a valuable Thread that can be very informative to some people.

As has already been said
 

The initial question was NOT about the appropiateness of the AI subforum. The question is about the need for a different moderator for the subforum.

That's it.

The forum is quite useful (most of the time). The current moderator situation is not.

I totally hear what you're saying, SmartBlondeGphB - and you are correct in your statement. However, out of fairness, we have to admit that, in spite of the fact that GP's thread was only asking a single question, people took the topic and ran with it. People got wound up and started suggesting that, instead of fixing the moderator situation, we should just close the whole sub-forum. I went back and counted six posts from five people where the idea of closing the forum was suggested or supported. One person in particular wrote, "That is if we continue with this wretched subforum." Wretched? I respect people's right to an opinion; but that statement seemed a bit too strong to me. This is one of my favorite forums on GC. If people are going to make statements like that, others *will* defend their desire to keep the sub-forum.....regardless of what "the original poster was asking".

To keep this topic out of that thread, it would appear that Tom is now starting a new thread of his own to address the topic. So, I'm not sure why you have objected. It seemed reasonable to me to object about the other thread getting "off-topic"; but it hardly seems fair to come on a brand new thread and say that it is not on target. As far as I can tell, this thread is for discussing keeping the sub-forum, that thread is for discussing a change in moderator. Tom's said some goofy things on GC, but it's not his fault that other people didn't stay on topic in the other thread. Isn't this what some people wanted? For the closure topic to be out of the other thread? I'm confused.

.....Kelly :)

AXO Alum checking in to get credit for my post of calling this whole entire subforum wretched - yes I did, and I'll tell you why... because for too long this subforum has been a breeding ground for people who do not want to do their homework and just pop into GC and sorority-shop.

Like I said to ms_gwyn in the other thread (which she understood my position after clarification of my intent) - I am not going to write a personal letter to everyone on GC that this does *not* apply to - if it doesn't apply to you, then its not about you.

The word "wretched" is my opinion when it comes to the problems that this forum has helped foster. Its the only word that came to mind when I think of all the problems this forum has led to for some people (people, keep in mind, that did not want to work for AI but rather were led to believe "oh - I got cut from all 17 houses, but there's always AI")

I give major credit to people who couldn't pursue collegiate membership, and face the long, hard road of AI membership. They know what it takes, and they have done their homework to get them there - they are members of their orgs, and the route they took to get there does not matter - we have a lot of those people on here (ariesrising, bluangel, ms_gwyn, valkyrie, etc.)

Its simply an issue of people using this forum to bypass the work needed to become an AI.

Again - if this doesn't apply to you, then its not about you.

And BTW - this thread is only another way for Tom to lash out at me, kddani, SmartBlonde, and several other female mods that he continues to trash on a daily basis because he thinks that we shouldn't be entitled to our opinions, only the ones he wants us to have (notice his use of alterior motives - whatever that is!)

I apologize that we seemed to have some kind of misunderstanding. I did not ever think that you were personally trying to point me out. There's no reason why I would - I think I'm probably the only AI on this forum that everyone can have a 100% degree of certainty about. Really, anyone who questions my membership would have to have very poor reading and comprehension skills. I have several GC eyewitnesses to my initiation and there are photos posted of me standing with international officers. I'm not a faker and I certainly did my homework.

All I was trying to say was that I liked the forum and I don't think it's as bad as some people say. Regardless of whether or not there are "crazies" and "fakers" who are trying to AI, I like the forum and I find it useful. I feel that perhaps you (?) are trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

How about the Recruitment Forum?

* Every year we get at least one faker on the Rush forum who never got a bid like she said she did.

* I have seen lots of threads from rushess on that forum who post "How competitive is rush at LSU?" and "How do I get recs?" and "What do I wear to rush?". They don't do their homework either - they just come to GC and expect everyone to do the work for them instead of asking their campus' Greek Advisor or actually reading previous threads.

* There have been several girls who got cut heavily during recruitment and GC members told them it was "ok" and they should "try again".

Using the same standards, the Rush forum seems like just as good of a candidate for deletion as this one. How come the rush forum isn't held to the same "wretched" standard?


Yes, that is your opinion and, as I stated previously, I do respect your right to have one. Honestly, I do respect it. However, I just don't *agree*. I have seen many *excellent* AIs come out of this forum and I feel bad that the good of the many AIs and PNAMs is being outweighed by the tackiness of a few. I personally was lied to by one of our infamous PNAM/AIs and I was not too happy about it (and darn it, I know for a fact that she is not a member!). But should I then turn around and have mistrust for everyone? I'm not naive, but it's not in my nature to not give people the initial benefit of the doubt.

You and I are actually in agreement on one thing; I also don't like the idea of encouraging people who got cut lots of times with "...oh but that's ok, there's always AI". I abhor that...it cheapens the hard work of the AIs and invites people who may not be good candidates to try when really they shouldn't be.

Other than a wholesale deletion of this subforum, do you have any ideas for what can we do to make improvements here? Adding an NPC/AI moderator was one suggestion. Also, maybe those of us in the know can post corrections in the rush threads whenever people tell failed rushees that they can always AI. Anything else?

.....Kelly :)

The difference between the Rush forum and the AI forum is that the Rush forum is well moderated by knowledgeable GCers. The Rush forum mods do not publicly post incorrect information, they respect the membership selection policies of other groups, etc.

Also, the rush process is fairly uniform throughout the country (we're talking about NPC rush, which is the vast majority). Styles may differ slight, but the process is the same.

AI is a WHOLE 'nother ballgame. Every single group does things differently. A lot of members don't know how it's done, because it's rare or it doesn't happen in their area. Therefore, a heck of a lot of misinformation gets passed around.

I guess it might be a necessary evil, but at the same time, changes NEED to be made.

I guess My Point was well taken about some posters.

I do not know anything about AIing along with The Fellow Mod of This thread.

He never was AIed either. But I am the One who is pointed out.:D

Amazing that one poster said not All GLOs did the same thing but needed an AI Mod.

I guess My Question is Why would an AI from One Glo really know about AIing from another GLO?

Yes, With Any GLO Of AI whether Be From A Fraterity or A Sorority be able to make a definite decission either way with out some one complaining about what was posted.:confused:

Some point was made about some individual who did not make it throught Normal Rush but is trying to use AI as a back door to get in is a slap in the face of so many who have come into the Fold of GreekDom through AIing.

While, AIing is Very New to Many GLOs, it seems that there are more Avenues that seem to be opening for them.

:cool:

I posted this in My Original Post that AIing is and can be a long and difficult process as many of the AIs on GC Have found.

Does that make them any less True Members of Their GLOs?

This is not about the AI Thread, This is about Me being a Mod on here.

All anyone has to do is read the posts and threads to get a pattern.

I have given John Hammell "A" Name of an Additional Possible Mod for this Thread. As I have said, it is in His Hands.

He will check all of the Threads about AI as I asked Him.

He will then make His Decision.:cool:

This kind of reminds me of The Rush Forum where some of the same people were/are complaing about it.:(

Some would say that he hasn't come on here posting misinformation about a process he isn't fully informed about. Therein lies the difference.

Show me where any of us have called AI'ers less than true members? I know you can't say that about me.

This is not about the AI Thread - its about you being the most attention starved person on GC. When things are going fine, you try to find something wrong with posts from Dani, Rudey, SmartBlonde, me, etc. You continue to trash us in threads all over the boards, and then you get pissy when we throw it back. You DEFINITELY summed it up with these words:

I just don't think that you meant to single yourself out by saying that!

What ever.

Yes, I Post all over The Threads on GC.

Who doesnt?

Now tell Me some That dont of The Names that You mentioned.:confused:

Oh Attention starved Person on GC?

I think that I answered that question in the above post.

Why should I Have to Show You when You can Go Back and Read threads. Oh, the thing that some accuse New GCers of not doing any Search of Past Posts that are Years old.

There are Many New People on GC Daily that are not so well versed as some seem to be.
:rolleyes:

A Few Have made this site so serioius of wanting to control it that THE FUN IS GONE!:rolleyes:

Maybe that is why so many have quit?:(

To any New GCers Who Read This, just keep posting and asking Questions. It is like anything New that You May Join!

There are a Pot Full Of People That Will Be willing to work with you!

Oh, I guess You answered one of My Questions.:D

Oh, No Names Advanced was there?:confused:

GOOD WORD PISSY! :)

What is the Old Joke?

Oh, if the foo bird________-------S!

I keep reading about all of these PNM's for AI who "have not done their homework" and who "were cut by all houses in college" and who are "crazies."

WHERE ARE THEY??? WHO ARE THEY????

I have only seen one questionable person posting here, and she seems to have disappeared.

For those so determined to shut down a very helpful and friendly sub-forum, I think you owe us concrete examples. Or do you have another agenda?

Further, I see nothing wrong with the moderation of this forum. The job of a moderator (which, btw is an unpaid position) is to make sure the rules are followed... period!

I think the way this whole campaign was conducted is reprehensible. If there is a perceived problem with a moderator, then it should have been brought up IN PRIVATE with the moderator him/herself. If no satisfaction was given, then this should be brought up to John IN PRIVATE!

I've seen some REALLY awful violations of the rules on other areas of GC-- some hateful and very un-Greek-like personal attacks-- yet nobody is complaining about those areas. Why is that?

What?! This is an unpaid position? Well am I supposed to send back all the money that I have received thus far in my mod career?

blueangel, I am glad that you are sticking up for Tom - someone probably should - but you would know the very definition of the word reprehensible if you knew some of the lengths he has gone to in order to be insulting to so many of us.

As far as this forum goes - I understand that it can and has been helpful to many people. Believe me, I am not alone in thinking that is has also been detrimental to the AI process in other ways (aka, blowing sunshine, etc. etc.). I am sorry that I cannot revive old posts that have since been deleted where people repeatedly say "oh well - there's always AI" or "I really wanted to be an XYZ, but only LMN gave me a bid - they are the loser org, so I'm going to wait for AI" -- IT HAPPENS. If you haven't seen it, then you are lucky.

Sorry, but hateful isn't a violation of the TOS. If it were, then I think that GC would be a very empty place. Everybody has their opinions about things - its learning to respect their right to have their own opinion that gets so many people hung up ;)

How much more fun has to leave before you quit? Just asking for future reference :p

<<What?! This is an unpaid position? Well am I supposed to send back all the money that I have received thus far in my mod career?>>

I thought it was. I'm a moderator of four forums (not on GC), and I do it because I love it, I don't get paid for any of them. I wasn't aware things were different here. I stand corrected.

<<blueangel, I am glad that you are sticking up for Tom - someone probably should - but you would know the very definition of the word reprehensible if you knew some of the lengths he has gone to in order to be insulting to so many of us. >>

If what you allege is true, do two wrongs make a right? Wouldn't it have been a better tactic to e-mail the person you felt was insulting you? And.. if you didn't get satisfaction, don't you feel it would have been prudent to go straight to John in private? Why the need to go public?

<<As far as this forum goes - I understand that it can and has been helpful to many people. Believe me, I am not alone in thinking that is has also been detrimental to the AI process in other ways (aka, blowing sunshine, etc. etc.). I am sorry that I cannot revive old posts that have since been deleted where people repeatedly say "oh well - there's always AI" or "I really wanted to be an XYZ, but only LMN gave me a bid - they are the loser org, so I'm going to wait for AI" -- IT HAPPENS. If you haven't seen it, then you are lucky.>>

Yes, I've seen posts that said, "Well, there's always AI"-- but I've seen them on the RUSH forum. So... this being the case, do you feel the rush forum should be eliminated?

I haven't seen any posts about people wanting to go AI stating the only bid they got was to a loser organization in college. And.. since nobody has been able to reproduce these alleged posts, then they must be quite rare. So then, why the need to destroy a forum which helps so many PNMs for AI when the posts you speak of are nowhere to be found?

<<Sorry, but hateful isn't a violation of the TOS. If it were, then I think that GC would be a very empty place. Everybody has their opinions about things - its learning to respect their right to have their own opinion that gets so many people hung up >>

I'm sorry to hear you feel that GC would be a very empty place without being "hateful." This is disappointing to me because I had always thought that as Greeks, we strive to live our ritual. Isn't being "hateful" contrary to that?

Don't you agree there are other ways for people to express their opinion without being "hateful?" I'm sure you've heard the "attack the idea, and not the poster" phrase. In the forums I moderate.. that is the golden rule, and I've found that we're more popular because people know they can post their opinions without being attacked. I'm all for a good, juicy debate.. but done so with respect.

For example.. one of my best friends is on the total opposite political pole as I am. We got into some pretty good discussions during the elections. But, in the end, we always agree to disagree, and then go shoe shopping together! :)

__________________

You're assuming this hasn't already been done............which would be a VERY bad assumption.

The only reason for the creation of the AI subforum was the AI threads were taking over the alumni forum. Real alumni issues weren't getting discussed because people were tired of wading through the AI threads and avoided the forum totally. So, we split it. The intention was not to further publicize, condone or push AI. The same thing happened with the splits in the Chit Chat forums.

However, since doing that some people seem to think that since there's a forum for it that it is much more common than it really is.

Then.. if you:
1. Had e-mailed the person who you have a problem with
and
2. E-mailed this to John

Then... what do you hope to gain by bringing this public?

And that is a problem.. how?

Thanks for clearing that up! Knowing the forum's orgin, I can see both views regarding the positives & negatives of this sub-forum.

I am not the one who started it all.......... I simply pointed out that there are a lot of things that a lot of people aren't aware of.

Because it's not as common as people seem to think. You of all people should know that.

Yes, it is common for my org, yes most (not all) alumnae chapters are aware of it and promote it. But my org is more the exception than the rule.

Yes, of course I know that. And you know I know that :)

I'm just trying to find out why the assumption that AI is more common than it is really is-- seems to be such a problem? Isn't a forum here to share information? From what I've noted on these forums, that information quickly gets across to any PNM who makes that assumption.

So, I again ask... what's the problem?

I'm writing a new book... its called "Everything I've always wanted to know, I learned from 33" :D

SmartBlonde - more exception than the rule as you stated seems to fit a lot of topics on here ;)

There's not necessarily a problem with the AI subforum. As 33 stated, the AI subforum was created because the AI threads were taking over the Alumni forum. Yes, this forum is here to share information and to discuss AI. But it's important that correct info be available.

AI is a wonderful thing and I am thrilled that my own sorority does allow AI. We all know that not every sorority does AI and those that do, handle the concept differently. I think there is concern that in this particular subforum that at times some of the conversations get a little too close to MS issues and just are not really appropriate. Also, global generalizations are generally not helpful when it comes to the AI process. I really believe that it would greatly benefit all users of this forum to have a moderator knowledgable and sensitive to the unique needs of this particular topic. Doing so would go a long way would go a long way to help the AI subforum be a more positive spot for any/all GC members who are interested in the subject.

Let's be realistic, the overwhelming majority of the participants in the AI subforum are those persuing AI and members of NPC groups. Again, it's NOT a knock against the existing moderators or any GCer who was lucky enough to find their home as an alumna! But, it is a small percentage of not only NPC women, but of GC users.

As for a perception that AI is more common than it really is: We (as in the folks who read/post in this subforum) generally know it's a rare honor to be invited to AI with a sorority. But, the perception of a new user may be different and that's part of the concern. They don't think that there's maybe 50,000-100,000 living members of a sorority and there's a handful of AI's each year! But, when you look at a roll call thread with 30+ AIs listed with another 20 or so interested in AI, you could get the idea that it's a common occurrence.

I hope this makes some sense to you, blueangel, and anyone else who's been wondering. If not, I'm sure you'll ask why...and that's okay by me.

Fraternally,
Christin

Thank You Christin, I have repeatedly said this or tried to.

AI is or may not be for everyone.

It depends on the Individual and The Organization.

Because AI is so New to may of Us, it is becoming more Popular.

Of course, it has to come from learning what each GLO does.

It has been seen on GC from the many Who have attained AI Status with GLOs and Who have become very Important Members of a GLO.:)

I stated on another Post that I asked LXA about AI Status. They/We/I did not have an answer and asked why.

They came out with a Position Statement on Our Web Site and Email Listing so stating.

I also do not feel that an Individual should jsut Mass Shop for a AI Situation.

They should look and investigate the most positive GLO that fits with what they both beleive and feel to be a true fit.


But if I was a possible PNAI and read these or some of these Posts, I would ask My Self, why in the Heck would I want to do something like this? Is it or would it be worth it?

Well, for all of the People and New Posters who have joined us, Please look into it.

There are some and then there are others, You each individually must make Your own decission on what You want to do.

Seek and Ye Shall find, ask and there are Many who will help you for information.:cool:

Oh in answer to 33,s question or what ever the statement was, that was why AI Sub Forum was started. Uncluter Alum Forum and place it into a more prominent position.

This is and can be a New Wave of Of Men and Women who for some reason couldnt join as an Under Graduate.

"As for a perception that AI is more common than it really is: We (as in the folks who read/post in this subforum) generally know it's a rare honor to be invited to AI with a sorority. But, the perception of a new user may be different and that's part of the concern. They don't think that there's maybe 50,000-100,000 living members of a sorority and there's a handful of AI's each year! But, when you look at a roll call thread with 30+ AIs listed with another 20 or so interested in AI, you could get the idea that it's a common occurrence. " Christin

You're right! I'm glad I started my AI process when the list was very small. Otherwise, I might be crushed by my 2 year wait! The list of successful AIs could be very misleading to someone who doesn't yet understand the huge scope of the NPC.

LM

(An Edit has been made because I can't do math!)

<<<You're right! I'm glad I started my AI process when the list was very small. Otherwise, I might be crushed by my 3 year wait! The list of successful AIs could be very misleading to someone who doesn't yet understand the huge scope of the NPC.>>

I'm very surprised to hear you say that, LM. Did you base your entire perception of AI on a single list? Are you saying you ignored the many posters who constantly stated that AI is an extremely difficult process?

I find it impossible to believe that a new poster would come on this thread, read all of our experiences, and assume AI is easy-- just on a single list. And if they do... we'll set 'em straight! :D

Oh, of course not! But don't you get a little thrill every time you see another name go on the list :) It's easy to think...that could be me!!

As I stated in my message, "the list of successful AIs could be very misleading to someone who doesn't yet understand the huge scope of the NPC." I can proudly say that I had gained a realistic understanding of the NPC through much research before gauging my chances of success or even before I made any steps toward AI.

I only wanted to express that Hope, realistic or otherwise, can be fed so easily. That's not ALWAYS a bad thing...

To be blunt, I've seen several, but there's no way in hell I'm going to name names. People have posted things in this forum I can't even believe anyone would post in public. There have also been people who have contacted members of GC, whom they've never met in person, to request sponsorship. Then, there are some people who just for whatever reason, don't seem right to me.

We may disagree on whether a particular person is an appropriate candidate, and that's cool.

Yes. This has happened to me. It is a bit creepy.

<<<To be blunt, I've seen several, but there's no way in hell I'm going to name names.>>

Why not? If they posted it publically, then it is in the public domain. I still would like to see some of these alleged horrible posts. Nobody has been able to come up with a single piece of evidence to back up this claim.

With the exception of one woman who had a "roommate" who liked to play on her computer, I haven't seen a single post which falls in to the catagory that is alleged here.

Quite the contrary... I have only seem women who have researched AI, and who showed every evidence of really wanting it for the right reasons. And, I think that is why such a high proportion of women on this forum have been AI'd... because they did their homework, felt passionately about belonging to a sisterhood, and who took the steps necessary to be invited in.

<<People have posted things in this forum I can't even believe anyone would post in public. >>

Like what? Quite frankly, I've seen some things posted in a few other forums that I can't believe anyone would post in public. I've seen evidence of some GC'ers ganging up on other GC'ers-- cyber-bullying-- definately showing that they are not living their ritual... and I've seen blantant sexual discussions about things that do not belong in public and should be kept private.

<< There have also been people who have contacted members of GC, whom they've never met in person, to request sponsorship.>>

So what is the problem? You just say no. I would never sponsor anyone I had never met or knew well.... because that just defeats the purpose of recs.

<< Then, there are some people who just for whatever reason, don't seem right to me.>>

There are some people on other forum who don't seem right to me either... so should we shut down all of GC?

Evidently, My Post that has long been gone and stirred up (?) another Thread was not ment to mean what it was inteneded to do.

It was to point out the fact that AI is not a slip in the back door for People who did not make it into a GLO (ANY), for the fact as an Undergraduate.

Again, I reiterate that AI is somewhat new but expanding by the Different GLOs whether it Be a NIC or an NPC Group.

It seems to become more relivent as More People find it and ask about becoming a PNAI. Is it any easier, of course not. The length of Time that Many Of The AIs have spent along with time, effort and worry shows that. But I have Yet found any AI who is not much more Maybe appreciative than anyone I know and who bust Buns!:)

If We as GLOs are to expand, all avenues should be expanded.

I hope that there is more feelings and posotive aspects by GC Members who respect this Idea than trying to PooPoo it.

Granted, there are GLOs who do not profess AI, but it seems that more are looking at it.

Just look at some that said "We Dont" but Have.:)

I will never say that All should be there as there are reasoins that they are not.

We as Greeks are a selective Group as well We should be.

GreekChat never was or will be a catalist of gettting AIs interested. It is just and was another Avenue for People to find out about it.

I dislike women who come on GC and say they are contacting more than one sorority. I'm sure this is a semi-unpopular opinion, but it bothers me immensely. AI is not like going to the shoe store and saying "I want a pair of black heels, let me pick out 26 or so and see what I like best." To me, AI should be saying "I love those Kate Spade kitten heels with the little bow."

You should want to join my sorority, not any old sorority that will take you.

I never contacted any group other than ZTA, because that is where I received my bid in college all those years ago, and that's where I wanted to be.

However, I don't see anything wrong with women who were not in my situation feeling out more than one group. After all, I got to go to rush parties in school and see what the other groups were about. Why should AI be any different? During rush week, you meet women from a number of houses, and then it's mutual selection.... shouldn't that be the case with AI?

Can you imagine if, in college, you were told, "OK, we know you've never visited any of the houses, nor met any of the women, but we want to know which GLO you want to be in."

How can you know if Kate Spade shoes fit if you've never tried them on? :D

GP,
I truly respect your opinion, and I pose this question in all seriousness and respect.
I have quite a different opinion on "sorority shopping." Indeed, I must say that I feel that my views are bound-up in my experiences of the AI process. Hence, I must ask...Every recruitment thread seems to be filled with statements such as, "Keep your options open" and "Give every group a chance"...Why should AI members be treated much differently? If one does not have a collegiate experience, how can she expect to know which group is a good match? I most certainly URGE conducting research before one acts; yet, I also feel that conducting quality research on a national organization does not always equate to understanding the culture and climate of local chapters. If one group does not work out, but another seems very promising, why not pursue that new group? If a PNAI wants a Greek-letter experience and is willing to put forth effort, time, and patience needed for the process, why must she give up the dream if one group is not a good fit for her?
GP, What are your throughts on "group shopping" (perhaps I should say "group-shopping-lite") when viewed through this lense?

On a general note with absolutely no one person in mind....
I really enjoy reading GC and, especially, the AI sub-forum. I truly appreciate perspectives of all types of members. I urge thoughtfullness on posts related to AI. In AOII, AI members are no less than their collegiate sisters.

Happiness and good thoughts.
Silver

I *think* what GP is referring to is women who don't really research much about an org or get to know any of its members or anything, and just send out letters to a dozen or even all 26 groups to try to start the AI process. And a personal irk of mine is when the PNAM's then complain that groups aren't getting back to them instantly.

Of course you should find the group right for you. But, as many rushees who are looking for recs, a lot of people DON'T want to do the legwork involved on their own.

IMHO, AI should be somewhat like the NPHC intake process. The prospectives make the effort to learn about the organizations before they decide to pursue membership. Then they purpose what fits them best.

It's sort of like looking for a job as well. If you just do a mass mail merge and don't personalize your letters and resumes to each company, it just doesn't look good and doesn't look like you really care what job you get for who, just as long as you get a job.

I am also in the voice against sorority-shopping. Shoot me if you want, but that's my opinion. I believe that AIs should find groups that they have a particular connection with and pursue that group or groups. For these reasons, i'm glad that AI in KD is on a very limited basis.

Again, this is my opinion, not KDs, not anyone elses, not necessarily GP's. I think it might be along the lines of GP's thoughts because we've sorta discussed it before, but i'm sure she'll clarify for herself.

Very well said and I agree completely.

Why should I bend over backwards to help a woman AI into my organization and meet my alumnae chapter members (often vouching for her in the process) when all she is doing is shopping around?

YES. I think research is wonderful and should occur. Go to the websites and say "I like Alpha Phi's philanthropy but I also like ZTA's." Maybe even send both of them a letter.

Yes, during recruitment, we do get to see everyone's house and meet all their sisters. However, even if there are 26 chapters on a campus, you don't go to 26 Preference ceremonies. You go to those of the chapters that spoke the most to you, the ones that you feel you really belong to.

As somebody pursuing AI...
 

I agree with kddani, which is actually pretty funny becuase I pretty much did everything she doesn't like about PNAMs that pursue AI.

I did do my research, that is for sure. But, I must say after going through all the GLOs (before I contacted them) it was hard to pick just one that I wanted to contact. I do believe that each group has something special about it, and it was tough to narrow down to even a few. I did deside to contact four. At the time I figured if I did get in touch with some of the four groups, I would be able to meet the ladies of each and see where the shoe fit, so to speak. However, I think now I wish I had only contacted one at a time. I haven't heard anything from any of the groups yet, but now that I realize what the process entails on BOTH sides I really hope that only group only responds back to my inquiry, becuasse I don't know what I would do if I was meeting with two groups. I would hate to 'lead' a group on, or have them expend time and energy on me when I already feel like I have found "The One". Hopefully that won't happen, though.

When it comes to the waiting game, I've been waiting for a response for about a month and a half now. I do realize now, after reading some of the threads that have been started in this forum over the past few weeks, not to worry. However, I did post wondering if I should follow up, and kddani (and others) said I need to be patient. I thought at the time "At my work, if a letter came in requesting something, I could not have it sit on my desk for weeks without responding!" (I work in a very fast paced industry.) Now I realize, hey, wait a second, these groups that I wrote to are not there just for people to join. I am sure that if any of the groups I contacted (even the ones that do AI more frequently thatn others), do not just AI people in becuase the policy is that they do accept alumna initiates. they don't have to want you, and they don't have to respond if they don't want to. That is not what the process is about. I'm having a hard time explaining what I mean here, so I do hope that my point comes across without sounding like a total idiot. I'm going to wait until the end of August, I think, before I do try to follow up. But then I think I will only follow up with one group as for the reassons above.

In terms of random people PMing people asking for sponsorship (which I have not done): this is just my opinion, but I would guess that many people read these boards for a while before they begin posting or PMing people, and many of the regular posters (kddani, GpP, Smart Blond, Tom Earp, etc) kind of turn into charaters, and perhaps people feel like they can relate to certain members, and that is why they PM somebody asking for membership. I know that's a strech, but when I first started reading these message boards, I kind of had some of the regulars 'stereotyped' so to spreak, meaning that kddani always says what's on her mind (kddani, not in a bad way, though), GP and SmartBlond are VERY dedicated to their GLOs, and you can count on OTW to make her point, but to also make it with a joke. So manybe that's why some people do that, although I agree that is not the way to go about it. Why would a PNM want somebody who only knows them from limited contact from a website to write them a rec? (Of course, if you meet on a website and are friends and then ask for a rec, that is different.) And why would a woman who is a PNAM want a sponsor from a website that they haven't even met? Again, it's one thing if a contection is made and the friendshp develops, but the first impression is to ask for sorority sponsorship? Why would you want a sponsor being somebody you've never made contact with before?

In any event, although it seems like this debate has stemmed from some personal disagreements between a couple of GCers, I have really enjoyed following the progession, becuase I have really changed my opinion about a lot of things. I wish it had happened beofer I contacted any GLO!

:)

Very well said SF.

I personally don't think that contacting 4 is a bad thing at all. I think if it was me, I probalby would have trouble narrowing it down as well. But when you're researching groups, it does all come down to seeing something on their website that strikes a chord with you (probably most likely the philanthropy in terms of an AI). Then you need to find an alumnae group near you. It does no good for you to be in love with XYZ if they have no alumnae chapters in your area, or (more importantly) they don't do AI. You have to know that you are going to fit in with the local women before you can feel "at home".

Our latest AI contacted me through GC (she never contacted our IH) because she was interested in Gamma Phi and she saw that we were in the same area and we went from there. And she's more committed to us than some people who have been members for 20 years. But my organization is MUCH more open to AI than others so we are often much more open to helping potential AI's.

And yes, GP and I are very committed to Gamma Phi..........:D At this point in time, even after everything I've been through since I joined in 1988 (and that's a lot), even though I get thoroughly infuriated at some things they do, and even though I often vocally question things they do, I can't imagine not being committed. There are any number of people that I could turn to if something bad happened.

Not sure that that had anything to do with the topic at hand......

FWIW, I see a HUGE difference between doing one's research & narrowing the selection down to three or four and actually sending out letters to over five groups.

I feel the need to again state that Alumni Initiation is not a big phenomenon with Alpha Delta Pi. If you are interested, you are best served by knowing an alumna, and asking for her support, as you can NOT "recommend yourself" for membership.

You can "know" an Alpha Delta Pi via GreekChat, however, and one may show you how to go about the process.