Alums behaving badly!
 

Is it just me, or do alums cause more trouble than actives, advisors, and pledges?

I hear so many stories about alums causing trouble in their undergrad chapter. We too have had some issues with alums over the years.

Re: Alums behaving badly!
 

It can be a real problem. Unfortunately, some new alumnae may not be quite ready to make the break from collegiate life and may have a number of close friends still active. If new alumnae are returning to help with events when invited by the chapter, that's good. If new alumnae are trying to attend chapter meetings or retreats, that can be a nightmare on an internal and external level.

There are no easy solutions but strong senior programming along with an established alumnae relations program and connections with a local alumnae chapter can help. I really believe that educating by example is a great way to avoid this problem. If collegiate members see their alumnae involved with the chapter in appropriate ways (as advisers after the proper length of time for your GLO, kitchen help during recruitment, attending homecoming and founders' day events when invited to do so, etc) it could minimize the inappropriate involvement.

Oh, New Alums can be a real Problem!

Still feel like they are still Hooked In!:) Like they Know How!!!

But, remember, they will be the ones who will be down the road for you.

Been there for @ 40 years and have seen it and the change in some of the New to Old Alums.

Alums can advise, but the Actives run the Chapter!

But if the Actives screw up the Chapter, who do you turn to, The Alums.

It is Tit For Tat, give and take!:)

If Alums Come Back and Act Like Asses, have a sit down and talk, dont argue.

We had a situation recently where some of our founders/older alumnae of our chapter made the actives feel like complete crap. Basically, it involved some alums who still live in the area emailing everyone for donations to help the active girls out because their rent has gone through the roof (completely voluntarily of course). Now back in the late 80's when the chapter was going through the founding process, things ran differently at my school, and some of the founders and older alums felt that they still had the authority to in a sense "haze" the actives. Basically they (and they I should clarify were like one or two) were bent out of shape that new members are not sent out to visit them, call them regularly, etc. etc. etc. It got pretty heated. Bottom line, actives are sisters, and should be treated as such. I think alumnae need to butt out and remember that a lot has changed through the years in regards to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable anymore. Personally speaking, visiting my chapter during Alumnae Weekend is more than enough for me. I don't want to sound "old" but I really don't have much in common with 18-21 year-old woman anymore. I actually ran into a new member from my chapter in Old Navy over the weekend. It was cool to speak with her, but it really was kind of awkward after the initial small talk. If my chapter reached out for me for advice, I would do what I could, but beyond that, I am happy to be part of an alumnae association of sisters who are closer to my age here in NYC!

Re: Re: Alums behaving badly!
 

Can you elaborate a bit? I understand that alumns randomly showing up to a retreat can be a bit of a problem due to budgeting and whatnot, but alumnae are generally welcome (or at least feel welcome) at our chapter meetings. (At least I hope so... otherwise I feel really stupid.)

We just had a situation where our alumnae came up the night of initiation. They went out and got drunk and came to initiation, some of them were having differences with active sisters and decided to use that night as an oppurtunity to vent their feelings. Food got thrown and people were not nice something hit a basket and presents were broken. Not a nice way to welcome new sisters. It showed the new girls that we as a active sisterhood came together with eachother.

This is an ongoing thing with our Alumnae during homecoming they like to come up and in a sense as you had said "hazed" the active sisters. Its sad our new alumnae don't do it because they know what it feels like to be afraid. Its a shitty feeling but I am sort of happy to see other people have the same problem I always felt like it was only our alumnae.

Re: Re: Re: Alums behaving badly!
 

I think what is probably meant is when Alums try to run things how they were when they were there. When you are an alum, you are an alum. The current sisters are running the chapter.

Re: Re: Re: Alums behaving badly!
 

Sure, I can elaborate and if I don't explain it well enough feel free to PM me and ask questions.

Alumnae involvement and support is crucial for a successful collegiate chapter. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, because I believe it from experience. However, the collegiate chapter simply must be allowed to carry on their chapter operations as they see fit (with the guidance of their advisers and appropriate inter/national support personnel). If alums, especially recent ones, keep coming back to chapter meetings it's possible they can influence the chapter especially if seating arrangements, voice, and vote requirements are not enforced as appropriate for your chapter.

It can be especially difficult if the recent alumnae were heavily involved in the chapter. They may still be good friends with the current officers and may think nothing of offering advice or even telling the collegians what to do, just based on their sisterhood and friendships. Yes, this type of thing does happen--and I don't know if this is part of what Dionysus was originally alluding to.

I know. I still cringe when I hear sisters who have graduated 10+++ years ago say something like "Oh cool, lets go have fun with the pledges". It's like, 1.) How old are you and 2.) Don't you think the new SISTERS will respect you more if you are nice to them? I haven't been back in a couple years to my chapter but last time I did go, sisters who I don't even remember remember me because me and my pledge mom took them out to the diner for breakfast at 4AM. I think what goes over well is when we as older alumnae go back and can show we are still in touch with each other, and discuss the importance of our experience, not "yell" at some 18-year-old:rolleyes: . What I have noticed my chapter doing recently is having Alumnae Weekend AFTER the "pledge" period has ended. I think this can put an end to a lot of the drama that could potentially go on.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Alums behaving badly!
 

Silver, To True That!:)

I am sure but mabey not!:)

It is Tuff for the Hard Drivers to see the Undegrads not do it "LIKE" they did. But, Advise, is a hard topic to cover with out stepping on the toes of The New Officers who maybe feel that they can do it?

That is not an Alums decision.

We All are Protective as Alums whether New Or Old. We just try to do the best that We can and hope it works out!:D

yeah......i start trouble all the time. j/k

i think i will start helping out the chapter more this fall semester. i have been away with work and grad school that i havent had time to really hang out much. every time i show up to things, people actually think i am alive. i keep in contact with a few of the active and some of the alums.

When I was a collegiate officer, I remember butting heads a lot with an older alum -- she was chapter advisor before hawaiiagd took over the reins. She was an alum from a bigger, single named chapter (so you know it was an old one) and it was obvious that they did things differently at UC-Berkeley.

Each time we'd have differences it'd sound like:

"That's not how we used to do it at Berkeley..."

"In my days...."

You get the idea.

We had an issue with close-toed shoes at Initiation. For years and years we thought Ritual attire was something else...and then we went to Convention and found out that this woman pretty much rewrote things to her liking! It wasn't an "AGD thing" all of a sudden...it was a "Vicki thing". :rolleyes:

Re: Re: Alums behaving badly!
 

Ah... I get it. And I have seen this happen. Sometimes I am tempted to go in there and suggest things... but I usually just hold my tongue, unless of course, I'm asked.

I guess it's a little different with being a local, because your alumna/i network serves the void of a National Advisor council. However, usually we only come around if we are invited or asked. Otherwise, I don't really hear much about the chapters daily goings. (Except when I have to lay the smack down on our website...)

These are two of the absolute WORST things an alumna can say in the presence of a collegiate member, especially if said alumna is actively working with a collegiate chapter.

(Disclaimer--if you are sharing memories of your college days or telling stories in some informal setting, that's not necessarily bad. But if you're doing it in the ways that OTW described, well, that is bad and not one bit of help to the chapter.)

As soon as the new EC was installed and I was a 2nd semester senior I tried to zip my lip when it came to chapter activities. I still was an involved member of the chapter but I realized it was hard for the new Pres & rest of the board to come together as a group without the old EC chirping it with opinions. If I was asked directly I sure said what I thought but I held my tongue otherwise, especially during Chapter Mtngs. I definetly was not treated this way by soon to be or recent alumnaes and felt it was important to behave differently. I learned so much being a collegiate member, especially while on EC, mostly trial by error. It was all good real world experience for me that I think everyone in college should get.

Being local and with a refounding can be kinda touchy. In my opinion, we should be reaching out for the pre-refounding alumns more, but at the same time, they tend to not reach back and update their contact info! Grr! Our newer alumns who live in columbus are great though, it's wonderful to have someone who lives nearby able to save the day if need be, and also great to have random girls run up to you at Giant Eagle and hug you. It's also nice to see the founding member of your tree!

But trying to explain the movement away from hazing and still keeping traditions and rituals alive is a delicate process...there has to be a balance struck between "this is why we did/do this" and "let's do this because WE did it". Finding that balance point is a tricky situation, but it's getting better.

It's not just hazing that can be an issue. I've had situations where chapters had been doing the same philanthropy for 20 + years and the "alumnae" wouldn't let them change it, even though it was outdated and didn't fit with the mood/style of the current chapter. Some traditions are important (like ritual) but some have to go when they're no longer successful. My chapters who have advisors from several different universities don't run into this so much. It can be a big problem with chapters whose advisors are all from the same chapter.

Of course, then you get the "That's not how we did it at .XYZ". Although, new blood can mean new ideas, alumnae and advisors can't dictate to a chapter what they should do and shouldn't be offended if suggestions or new ideas aren't immediately welcomed.

Dee

It was really bad because the way her voice sounds, it already sounds like she's condescending.

I know she only had the best interests of the Fraternity in mind, but I was so happy when I found out that she was stepping down as chapter advisor. I only had to put up with her for one semester.

She's still very active with AGD, but it was determined that she was better suited to serve the alum chapter. Throughout my time as a collegian, her contact with the chapter was very minimal. :p

When I was active, we were trying desperately to get away from everything having an implication of hazing. So while trying to make things more positive and non-hazing, we had old alumnae question our decisions citing that "it wasn't tradition... the new girls get it too easy now... etc." :rolleyes: While you'd like to listen... there were times where I wanted to throw Baird's Manual at them.

Bottom line: When you graduate, you refer back to those days as "my chapter of initation." When you leave active chapter life, you have to let go. That's what alumnae associations are for.

If your chapter of initiation is having problems, you need to let the collegians and their advisers handle it. Too many times alum hear rumors and spread them to other alum, creating an unnecessary frenzy. IE: Chapter on probation for XYZ offense.

I think it's fine for concerned alum to reach out to the advisory board to offer to run a workshop, serve water at recruitment or say "I heard XYZ rumors about the chapter. Is it true? Can I do something to support the chapter?" But overall, let the chapter live its life and move on.

We had situations with alum coming back to recruitment and messing things up or taking over--- recruitment went well and the alpha class we took was exactly what we'd wanted-- but the logistics part of it were unnecessarily hard because of alumnae who wouldn't grow up. They've since begun a policy where you have to be approved to volunteer at recruitment and a paying member of the Alum Assoc. Others can donate supplies or meals during the week, etc. It may seem cruel, but its the only way to make the separation. And I agree with the other posters-- after college, why do you want to be spending all your time hanging around the sorority house, bossing around 18-20 year olds?

Our problem was with the advisor! During rush she was always pushing us to rush the 'supermodel' PNM's harder than other PNM's. I always wonder if she messed with the bid matching lists to put them higher up or something. She was totally obsessed with having appearance over substance, and she'd push the alumnae helping out to agree with her. Thank god she's not an advisor anymore.

Oh, we're not having any problems with that in OUR chapter, as of right now. I was just curious. We just had some fun people graduate, it will suck if I never see them again.

What I meant about alums behaving badly is the personality conflicts. When I overhear people discussing chapter drama, it usually involves an alum (I noticed this more in the social glos). Not so much as them overstepping their boundaries, though that isn't unheard of.

Ehh...I sometimes can't stand alumnae involvement. They either want to do things that aren't that quite nice that they did before back in the day:o Or..."you all aren't a good sisterhood like what WE had when I was active and blah blah blah..." :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I agree that it is hard to have over-bearing alumnae. I've delt with my share. However, something actives also need to remember that they can control this interaction too. (or at least in my opinion) When women graduate, they shouldn't be on your listserve knowing every email, and there's also a point where actives continue to tie alumnae in by telling them every dirty bit of a discussion. My college chapter had a situation, I gave her my advice, but told her that they really shouldn't be bringing this to every alumna, to contact the alumnae pres and leave it at that. It worked out and the chapter survived. If you always run for advice to people who are gone and having a hard time adjusting to non-college life (believe me it is NOT easy) it makes it easy for them to return somewhere comfortable. In my opinion the chapter should make the decision and go with it, tell the alumnae after unless their funding is critical.

Just a thought to put out there.

What ya trying to say PUNK! LOL JK KAYLA! I know what ya mean it was that way when I was active down there.

Little E is totally correct I will admit that I tend to have this problem because I am closer to alumni sisters then I am to the current sisters so when I am asked if I had a good day or am I talking to them it used to spill out O so and so did this....this and that happened, one day one of my friends was like I know were friends and stuff but maybe you shouldn't tell us all the little problems because it doesn't make you gurls look good. So I stopped when I needed advice I asked my friends but other then that I kept them updated but not on every detail.

Ok... this advisor could use some advice. There was a problem last year with some of the "older" actives getting TOO involved with the new members... i.e calling them for rides, divulging secrets before initiation, etc. I was told the active chapter tried to regulate it as much as possible and hoped that since they were all going alumnae after that semester, they would all just disappear. Well, as alumnae, they are still asking for rides and basically throwing the whole "I'm an alumnae" thing around at the active chapter. One suggestion I asked was to ban these certain sisters from events. But since they are still in college, it's not like I can just say, well they'll get a job or something.

But I can't have alumnae showing up to recruitment events plastered either. Any advice?

I've suggested to the president to let me talk to them since we are "on the same level" even though I'm much older than them so they might have a little more respect towards me. But I've also suggested having some sort of leadership or recruitment conference so the newer members know that this behavior isn't acceptable.

Anything else I can suggest would be awesome.

Are they still in college or are they graduated and alumnae?

Someone needs to sit down with them, or maybe just with the leaders and explain the situation they are creating within the chapter. Grandiose gestures about events that people are allowed to attend or not may turn off some alumnae, and that won't be good for the chapter. For the recruitment parties, when you send them the invite with what to wear, times etc, add in there a short tactful paragraph that addresses the issue. Desigate and older alumna, or yourself, to turn women away who come to an event intoxicated or otherwise unruly...I dunno if that helps, but good luck!
e

One of our traveling advisors showed up to a Halloween party social in a hooker outfit that was WAY wilder than any active would have worn. She also...uh...met... a young man at the social and, uhm, returned from the party really late. Like next morning late. (Note to ASAs: This was a LONG time ago, so don't even TRY to figure out who it might have been)

On a less-funny note, I remember reading an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer at a death at a Penn fraternity. As a careful reader, I noticed that the guy, who fell down outside steps and cracked his skull open, was both an alum and well into his 20's. And yet of course this prompted a lot of wailing about fraternity hi-jinks, even though it is unlikely that the actives could have done anything about a graduate who went out of his own accord and got smashed at Philadelphia bars, then returned to the outside of the house to party further.

I have found that a lot of recent graduates haven't gotten the message that once they graduate, "my chapter" now becomes "my chapter of initiation and I'm going to go join an alum association and/or volunteer with the national organization or devote my time volunteering directly with our philanthropy."

This isn't cause to offend anyone who is an alum and has a special affinity toward their chapter. But in the day-to-day goings on of a collegiate chapter-- unless you are dues-paying collegian, on the advisory board or part of the district officer structure supervising the chapter, your participation is now on a different level.

I feel like this lesson isn't adaquately provided to collegians during their stay in the chapter nor to alum.

I've had several instances where well-intentioned alums have escalated chapter incidents into major chaos.

ETA: And for those members who stay at their undergrad university through grad school, find a loophole to go "early alum," or just end up living in the same town-- understand thay while you are an alumna member of the sorority, you are no longer a member of the chapter. By all means, visit your friends at the house and socialize out in public. But don't crash chapter functions or get involved in chapter business-- it is no longer your place. It may sound harsh, but when too many cooks get in the kitchen, plans can go awry. Please stay involved in the organization with an alumnae association, volunteer to support the chapter and step away when asked regarding a chapter incident. Collegiate membership and alumnae membership are very different things and as an alumna, you have a whole wide world out there waiting to be discovered. Service to the sorority is wanted, needed and appreciated, but there are certain rules to remember and a fine line to maintain between involvement with a collegiate chapter and trying to assert your will or wants on a collegiate chapter that you are no longer a collegiate member of.

we have a policy that alumnae must be at least 5 years out of college to work with a collegiate chapter as an advisor. it seems to help.

if your chapter is having problems with a particular alumna, speak to another alumna(preferably an advisor) about it. she might be able to come up with the perfect job for the meddler, that will help her to feel involved, but will limit her contact with the chapter.

Our membership requirements are shorter than most. Ladies are allowed to go alum after 3 years... so most are still on campus. We tried making it four years, but it was changed back for some reason. (I didn't get involved in that debate.)

But I think sitting them down and chatting with them about their behavior would be the best thing. Granted they aren't "in the chapter" anymore, I would still hope they would respect our bylaws.

Alums basically are Members and are Guests when they return for Events.

The Exceptions if there is such a thing are:

Members of The House Corporation, Alumni Advisory Board, and The Advisor who We try to get from The Facualty, and Alumi Association.

The Members of these above listed usually are more responsable Alums.

If there is a Problem with Alums, handle it then and there.

Tell them they are welcome, but they no longer run the Organization on a daily level.

A New Alum is never a good Idea as an Advisor as they are to close to the Chapter and feel like they want to still be one of the Good Old Boys/Girls!

Do any NPC groups have a policy where an alumna's membership can be revoked?

I know we do, but it's like as with a collegian, you have to really do something horrid to get more than a slap on the wrists.

I don't believe Kappa Delta has any such stipulation for alums, nor do we terminate membership for undergraduate members, as far as I know. If a sister chooses to leave, that is another situation entirely--otherwise, National HQ tries to work with sisters as much as possible. :D

I know some do because several years ago, an alum of another sorority sent me this hilarious story that some alum had published about her chapter in a magazine. On the last page was a copy of a certificate that her sorority sent her, officially rescinding her membership. Gorgeous certificate.

Lambda Chi Alpha does and has.

One being The Founder of LXA.

He was reinstated in 1957.

I am sure most do, but, it is under specific circumstances and not widely used.

Oh - there is a mod that is well versed in NPC procedure... ask him - he's telling everyone else, so why not you too. It doesn't matter that he isn't a member of the organization - he apparently knows all kinds of good dirt about people...

Our alumns get wild and drunk at the alumn dinners and mess with the other houses. They are pretty amazing.