Smoking bans in bars
 

Starting tomorrow, you will no longer be able to smoke in the bars in my hometown. We've had a restaurant smoking ban for a while, but there's been a lot of drama about the bar ban.

I can see both sides of the argument, but I've never been a smoker and I have a couple friends who have pretty severe smoke allergies and there have been nights where we've had to cut our night short so they can go home and, you know, not die -- so from a personal standpoint I'm all for it.

What other cities have these smoking bans? I get the impression that it won't be long until most cities outlaw it. What do you guys think about it?

Re: Smoking bans in bars
 

All of California (designated smoking section is in the state of Nevada, next door... :D)

Florida (most public places)

City of Dallas.

It's been outlawed up here too... and I gotta say that I'm a fan.

I can now see across bars or clubs... my eyes aren't burning from the smoke... less temptation for me to grab a smoke... and the smell of old smoke doesn't cling to my hair and clothing anymore :)

The City and County of Honolulu passed a smoking ban in restaurants a few years ago. They were going to make it so that it extends to bars and clubs too, but many businesses strongly went against it...saying that it would hurt sales.

So here in Honolulu (and for the rest of the state, anyway), if the establishment's revenue is made up of at least 75% alcohol sales, smoking is allowed.

I doubt that we'll ever have a complete smoking ban. Hell would probably freeze over first. Still, I'm fine with it either way -- whether or not there's a ban, I'll still get to smoke my cigarettes and I don't care if I have to go outside.

As a smoker, I like being able to have a cigarette when I'm having a drink. I try to be as considerate as possible, but I've had random people come up to me and tell me that they have a problem with my smoking. I tell em what I tell everybody...

"If you don't like cigarette smoke, don't fucking go to bar. Stay home."

It's been banned in Boston for at least three years, although I'm not entirely sure for how long it actually has been in effect. I love it in bars here and I can definitely tell hte difference when I go to places where it's not banned.

Florida and Georgia both have a smoking ban. You cannot smoke in a restaurant or bar that gets its revenue from a certain percentage of food. I know that California, New York, and a few states in the Northeast also have smoking bans. Personally, I love it. I like being able to go to a restaurant and not have to smell the smoke that wafts through the non-smoking section from the smoking area.

Boulder, CO has one. I don't know -- although I'm in a quasi-smoking phase right now, I normally don't smoke and don't like the smell of it. However, I think it's kind of lame to not allow it at bars. It really should be up to the owners, and then people can choose where to go.

The problem here is that while some of the owners would love to ban smoking in their bars, they know they will lose out on business if they do so because their smoking patrons only have to go down the block to another bar. That's why these particular owners have been supporting the smoking ban, because they know that in this case someone will have to go out of town in order to smoke -- and let's face it, most people will go an extra block, but they won't go an extra 20 miles. It's wishful thinking to imagine that banning smoking would happen on anything less than an all-or-nothing level.

It would be interesting to know the percentage of bar owners who would outlaw smoking in their bars if it wouldn't affect business, though. I have no clue if that percentage would be large or small.

On the whole, I think it's a lot of excitement over nothing. There are plenty of people who smoke now who are bitching about how they won't go out to the bars after this, or they'll go out of town to do it -- but they won't. They all said the same thing when the restaurant ban went into effect, and they still go to all those restaurants. And there are a lot of non-smokers who claim that they'll go out a lot more often now, but honestly I doubt that'll happen either. I don't think it's going to cause a significant change either way.

That's pretty lame of them, though. If they want to ban smoking they should ban smoking and deal with it, but if they want the money from smokers, they should allow smoking and STFU. It's like they want it both ways.

I guess I don't understand why anyone would even OWN a bar if he really hated cigarette smoke if there was no smoking ban in place. It kind of reminds me of the people who move next to a music venue and then bitch about the noise, you know?

Re: Smoking bans in bars
 

Thats me!!
I have to carry my inhaler with me whenever I go out. And if I forget it, I'm screwed. Which is why I LOVE taking the PATH over to NY any chance I get. I'm all for smoking bans. I hate the way my hair smells and my clothes smell after a night in a smokey bar. The first thing I do when I come home, regardless of the time or how gone I am, I have to take a shower.
I wish more places would ban smoke. Let's face it, smoking is dangerous, and I just mean on the second smoke level. Back in college, I auditioned to be a cocktail waitress in a nice casino in AC, I was hired but couldn't make it through the training because of the smoke. I also couldn't get a job waitressing because the places couldn't garuntee that I would always be in non-smoking section. Forget bartending. I can't imagine how lungs of people people who work in bars or resturants for long periods of times are suffering.

A stricter ban starts in GA tomorrow (7/1).

One of my favorites - the Vortex - has decided to ban children and anyone under age 21, finding a loophole that allows smoking if no children are present.

The Vortex, two locations, has great burgers and a menu similar to Applebys, and has been attracting a lot of families - but owner says he really doesn't want children, that families are not spending as much as adult customers, and they think they'll do OK.

More power to 'em. I believe we have some new regs that will appear here in Oklahoma sometime in 2006. Personally, if I could go my life without ever having to smell another cigarette, I'd be a happy camper.

In South Africa, they have the 80-20 rule. 80% of the bar must be smoke free and 20% of the bar can be a smoking area. It works marvelously. All the smokers goes to this little room and smoke then joined the rest of the crowd when they get done.

We have this in NY and I totally love it!!! Especially in the winter so I don't have to worry about cleaning my coat the next day. My boyfriend and half my friends are smokers and they have gotten totally used to just going outside to have a cigarette. Some bars do occasionally let you sneak in your cigarettes for a bit though ;).

In California our law is a part of the labor code. You cannot allow smoking in any area that has 4 walls, a ceiling and workers. Bars still allow smoking outside. None of the bars seem to have suffered and smokers have gotten used to going out front or to the patio to smoke. As one of the people who is severely allergic to smoke, I really appreciated when this law was put into full force while I was in college.

In Birmingham, the City Council passed a law that said all restaurants in its City Limits were smoke-free effective June 1, 2005. Several of the restaurants have since put this notice up in their establishments to let patrons know.

I'm curious to see what happens with restaurants in the other smaller cities in the area--of which we have many, and if this new law applies to them.

They are pushing this around here, but let's face, this is the home of french fries as a garnish. Plus there are lots of small bars around here that even if it was law would probably never enforce it. There are a couple places around here that are smoke free, and it works for them. It should be the owner's choice, not the city or state's.

One Polite Smoker Takes On the Zealots
I know my habit is an unhealthy one. But if I'm obeying the rules, it's none of your business.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Se...hd.hmedium.jpg


By Judy Law
Newsweek
May 2 issue - In the '50s, my mother started smoking at the recommendation of her doctor. Cigarettes, he told her, would calm her nerves and cure constipation. My father picked up the habit in World War II. I hated my parents' smoking and swore I'd never do something so disgusting.

In college I finally grasped how necessary smoking was. It was a time when brilliant, brooding professors lectured while holding unfiltered cigarettes in stained fingers, when girls wearing cashmere sweater sets gestured gracefully with extra-longs, when handsome fraternity boys clutched a can of beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other. I wanted to know what they all knew, and for sure, I wanted one of those boys. So I practiced smoking, fighting through the phlegm-inducing learning process until I could inhale with cool perfection.

Although this new talent didn't make me broody or brilliant, did nothing for my wardrobe and didn't land me a fraternity boy, I discovered several side benefits: Smoking at parties gave me something to do besides stand around in mute discomfort. It made an excellent companion to drinking beer, another collegiate skill I acquired. Plus, the ability to hold toxic fumes in my lungs gave me a head start when it came to smoking dope at anti-war protests once I graduated.

When I finally decided to quit, I couldn't because smoking had carved deep, needy troughs in my brain. Over the years I've gone to countless cessation programs, psychiatric counseling, and group and individual hypnosis sessions. I've used every prescription drug, patch and inhaler. Without cigarettes as a constant companion, I plunge into an unrelieved state of despair and become a nonproductive harridan.

I got myself into this mess and, therefore, I accept my status as an addict and a pariah. But I'm also profoundly ticked off.

Let me make a few things clear. I believe that the men who ran the tobacco companies were evil because they lied about poison for profit. I believe that smoking cigarettes can make people sick and even cause death. I believe that kids should never take that first drag and that people who can quit should. Cigarette smoke is noxious in close quarters. (As I write this, my best friend is visiting for a week. She's also a smoker, as is my husband. In order to take deep breaths of clean air, we have to go outside in the rain.) It makes sense that smokers are confined to separate quarters in restaurants and bars or herded outside to parking lots and alleys.

That said, I want self-righteous anti-smoking zealots off my back.

Case in point: I'd stopped after an hourlong bike ride at my favorite cafe at the top of one of Seattle's hills. Single tall latte in hand, I went outside. It was midafternoon and I sat by myself at a sidewalk table. Inside, against the rear wall, a solitary patron hunched over a pile of food. He glared at me through the plate glass as I lit my cigarette, so I turned away.


Moments later, he stood inches from me, apoplectic. "What would you do if I spit in your face?"

"What?" I'd heard exactly what he said but I just didn't get it.

"Your smoke completely ruined my lunch. I'm nauseated. Put out that cigarette or I will spit in your face."

Still flummoxed, I said, "But the door's closed. The windows don't even open. You couldn't possibly have been bothered by my smoke."

He'd sucked up some saliva, his lips tightly puckered. Had he been formidable, I might have followed his order. But he was small and slope-shouldered, so I stood and looked down at him. With 20 minutes' lead time, I could have come up with a brilliant retort. The best I could do under immediate pressure was to ready my latte cup for a counterattack and say, "Don't you dare."

The standoff lasted a few tense seconds before he muttered "B----," and walked away.

Although this was an extreme incident, smokers are considered legitimate targets for crusading health goons. Some of them simply stare with contempt. Some walk past in wide, fearful swoops as if to avoid instant emphysema. I'm a rule-abiding smoker. In my experience, most of us are, and most nonsmokers are able to comfortably occupy the planet with us. Perhaps anti-smoking zealots—and, I suspect, zealots of any type—were bullied as children or lead boring lives or just have a mean streak. Whatever their reasons, I'd like for them to listen up because I intend to set their minds at ease. I promise I will never use smoke as a weapon to cut their lives short if they, in turn, swear to put their excess energy somewhere else. I respectfully suggest they collect discarded beer cans from the beach or rescue stray animals or gather blankets for the homeless or teach kids to read. Deal?

Law lives on Vashon Island, Wash.

© 2005 Newsweek, Inc.

In NYC, it's not a full ban. I thought the law centers around the workers in a bar to protect their health if they don't smoke. That's why if you go to a lot of the bling bling places you'll see people smoking.

It's a great idea.

I hope all big cities ban it.

-Rudey

While I understand Judy Law's point of view, I have to disagree with her. Most of the smoker I've randomly encountered in places are rude. Smokers that I know and that know my allergy to smoke are very curtious around me, but I've had awful situations in bars.

Last week I had a man purposely blow smoke in my face because I asked him if he would mind holding his cigaratte in front of him, rather than at his side and therefore in my face. It took every bit of self control not to throw my drink in his face, but instead walk over flirt with the bouncer and have he removed from that bar (it was one of those places with like 5 different themed bars within a single complex).

I'll take Ms. Law's suggestion as soon as she and her fellow smokers collect their discarded cigarette butts from the beach, roads, sidewalks, and everywhere else they carelessly discard those nonbiodegradable white pieces of trash.

Most places in NYC don't allow smoking, Providence stopped, and Florida doesn't allow it anymore. I'm asthmatic, so it's the only way I can spend any amount of time at the bar. I don't have a personal problem with smokers, though.

I really can't tell the difference anymore. I feel bad for smokers though - it's still policy at some places that when they go out for a smoke, they have to go to the back of the line of people who haven't entered the bar.

I'm glad it was banned though - I was sick of being burned by people who don't know how to control their cigarettes.

I love this quote! As someone whose grandma died of lung cancer, it's definitely something I'll never try, but hey, your body is your business, so I try to be as non-mom-like around friends who smoke. Still, don't do it around me, it's gross.

I liked Wichita Falls' old compromise on the smoking ban: if you can add on a separately-ventilated section apart from the regular seating area, that was the only way they would allow a smoking section in a restaurant. I liked that because I didn't have to breathe it if I went out to eat, plus that got rid of the smoking section entirely in most places. The only bad thing is that I think it may have led to the downfall of the Chuck Wagon, a complete hole-in-the-wall with great ribs that had formerly been one big smoky room, but still, I thought it was a good way to make sure non-smokers didn't have to deal with smoky restaurants.

I don't know any smokers who throw their butts on the ground.

Thank you very much.

This is How I and thousands of people make their livings, in the Tobacco Industry. Oh, guess what was the first cash crop of the New Colonies that became America?

There was once a Flag that had "Dont Tread On Me".

Dont I have rights along with those that do and want to smoke?:p

If there is no smoking space for me and My Ilk, they do not get My Money!

Tobacco is the first, what then, Liquor, driving a car unless it is partly electric?

Oh lest we forget, McDonalds Frys or the fat food for Obese Ass wholes who love great greasy Burgers with buns.

Or, Chinese, Italian, Beef, Bread, Salt, Eggs that are bad for us.

Bread, the biggest Baker in the Country is Located in K C. They are in bankruptcy as Bread and Twinkies (100) Years old are not good for you!:rolleyes:

Why not worry more about AIR Pollution and Global Warming? Oh, Smokers dont have the Lobbiests that Oil and Utilities have.

The Number 1 taxed item in the Good Old USA is Tobacco, Philip Morris gave 90 Million in taxes in one year to the Federal Govt and this dosnt count State, City, and County Taxes, the largest single tax of any business in the country. Take out of Tobacco Taxes and Jobs, where will that money come from and where will the people find jobs?:rolleyes:

People can still smoke - most of my family smokes (although I don't), and I have many friends who do. This doesn't keep them from being able to smoke, and they're all still buying as many cigarettes as usual. It just means they're spending more time finding a place to smoke.

Have any facts that back up your assertion that the tobacco industry is suffering because of this?

Yes, My Business has Dropped by 1/3 after Kansas passed 2 increase State tax placing Me at 7.00 above Mo. per carton in Cig Tax! It has continually dropped by 1/3 per month from last year.

So, in escense, from 600,000 + to 320,000. Lot of damn money isnt it for a small business.

Kansas has also lost taxes from excise Tobacco Taxes.

Also, when the Federal Govt. placed a multi million Master Settlement Tax against the Tobacco Industry, they of course raised prices.

3 years ago, Philip Morris paid 90 Million in Taxes to the Federal Govt. That did not count RJ Reynolds, Brown Williams, Liggett, or Lorrilard as the biggies.


KSigkid, does that give a hint on a smaller scale.

What about the Resturants and Bars that have no smoking and lose money? Lawerence Ks. Home of Un. Ks. has had two major bars close and some are still trying to hang on but from what I am hearing there may be more including resturants.

2 years ago, there were 10 Smoke shops in My County, now there are two and We are just hanging on.:(

Your business slowing down has nothing to do with the ban on smoking in bars, it has to do with taxes.

When you're in a business that is heavily regulated, and causes cancer and death, you can't be too surprised when people try to stop it. Yeah, i'm sorry your biz is going down the pot, but it can't be much of a suprise.

ETA: i strongly doubt that bars or restaurants are closing b/c of the ban. The food and drink business is notoriously difficult to maintain a good business in, and bars and restaurants come and go incredibly frequently

Cosign!

I've noticed that most of the smokers I know (including the Mr) have no qualms about stepping outside a bar for 2-3 minutes to smoke.

I don't think that this is stopping anyone from smoking. :)

There was a big ugly debate when the city I live in went smoke-free for all bars and restaurants, but I personally like being able to go out at night and not have to hang my clothes outside the next morning to get rid of the smoke smell. Bartenders and restaurant owners tend to think that the ban hurt their business--true or not, I don't know--but everybody I know who smoked before still smokes...they just do it outside now.

I love this idea. I can't tolerate being in bars for longer than an hour or two because the smoke drives me crazy. My dad smokes and he never smokes inside the home because it smells terrible. My boyfriend smokes occasionally but will never smoke around me. I have a smoke-free environment the rest of the time and don't see why I need to quarantine myself to my home and never go out to eating establishments just so people can enjoy their cigarette indoors. If they want it that badly, there's a smoking room or a patio.

And Tom Earp, slavery was also profitable and an early industry in this country. That doesn't mean we should continue to support it.