Spank or not to spank?
 

Hello to all of my rhoyal bluetiful sorhors! I have a question to ask. Do you believe in spanking children who need it such as strong willed children or not. I know that children have different personalities which doesn't require that they get spankings because either talking or other form of punishment seem to work best for them. I'm specifically talking about strong willed children because talking to them and placing them on time out does not work and spanking does in conjunction with other punishment such as taking away privleges. So what are your views on this topic.

saying it in 22 ways

Tinese

I got "whoopins" when I was little and think I came out just fine!!!! (Probably better than I would have if my parents didnt keep me in check).

I dont believe in BEATING any defenseless child, but I personally dont see anything wrong with an old fashioned spankin!

i believe that the discipline should fit the child and the action. some strong willed children need a spanking. i don't think that one should use the child's personality of being strong willed as an excuse for some of things the child does. so give the kid a good swift kick in the a.. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

I agree with you prettypoodle6. I got spankings too, and I am a stronger person for it. The question is where do you draw the line between spanking and abuse? Some kids need a spnaking to keep them in line, so RHOyal-Silence I agree with you that the punishment should fit the child.

I got spanked when I was little and you know what, I deserved each and every spanking that I got. The reason why I say this is because I knew that I was doing wrong and most young ones know when they are doing wrong. A good spanking from time to time will not kill a child. Sometimes talking and taking things away is not a strong enough form of punishment and some kids may get used to just sitting in their room with no phone. They'll continue to get into trouble because they will think that they have their parents all figured out, so surprise them and test the flesh.

Delight

I would like to say that I believe that spanking children is a way of assuring rules and punishments for such. But it can also teach children that when someone doesn't do as you feel they shouldthen they should result to hitting them.

However, I do feel that had it not been for me getting my regular spankings as a form of correction I probably would not be on the good tract that I am on today. Timeout worked but it wasn't as effective as the "spanking". I mean I was like heck if all I have to do is sit or stand in this corner for doing this then I can serve that time. Another thing was writing sentences I was like this is just going to make my handwriting better than everyone elses. So it was always a way for me to transform my punishments into something else in a state of mind. But when my parents wailed on my behind, there was no getting around that. The clearest message of I won't do that again was loud and clear as possible.

So would I spank my kids?
Yes if it was called for, but I would not spank them for every single episode of something nor would I infringe on there individuality and personality traits. Cause sometimes a good talking to gets the same point across. Trust me that's something you never get away from coming from a family of lawyers. Who knows maybe the child might have a good defense for there actions. You'll never know if the first thing you do it pop them or grab the belt or whatever it is that you hit them with.

The funniest thing about this subject for me is that I was against spankings before I had children myself. I got so many of them that I said I couldn't do that to my own. My niece stayed with me once and I couldn't spank her when she needed one. But when I had my own I had no problem spanking them when they needed it. It does, however, depend on the circumstances and the child. I use time out alot but time out does not always work especially in the middle of a store. So when my children show off in public I have no problem "showing off" on them http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

you know, as i think about it, i really start to think if i really could raise my hand to spank my own child. i do not have any children so i cannot honestly say what will happen. but i recieved numerous spankings and turned out terrific(if i may say so myself) but on the other hand i hope to try to find other ways to deal with punishment.
however, i see nothing wrong with spankings, ijust think i could not do it!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

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the sexiest ladies in the world are laced in rubies and pearls.

I fully believe that it is not only appropriate, but also absolutely needed for a strong-willed out of line child to be disciplined. We can not sit around and laugh and give our children "timeouts" all the time. There is a place for everything and there are times whn a child needs to be spanked so that they will have an reinforcement of what is right or wrong

I think that....
 

I believe in spankings. I got them when I was little...not many, but thats because I learned not to do stuff that would make me get one! I remember in church my mom would get on to me for talking...and she would look at me and say "do you wanna go to the car?" I never knew exactly what was in the car...but the heck if I wanted to find out. I too turned out pretty dang good, and I still respect my parents and try not to do anything that they would be ashamed of.

I think people who put their kids in time out...and never put any sort of fear in a child...a fear of real punishment...raise kids that are out of control. I know people who actually look scared of their kids. Come on!

Now Im not talking about beating you kids, hitting them with your fist...or whatever. Im talking about a firm hand on the butt.
It hurts their pride more than it does their butt...but thats how they learn between right and wrong....in my opinion.

Sorors and sisterfriend,

Sometimes I think if these parents spanked their children when they were younger they wouldn't have such disrepectful teenagers and young adults now. I'm speaking not as a mother but as a high school teacher with 9. 5 years of teaching experience so many of the teenagers that end up getting into serious trouble is because mom and dad spared the rod and spoiled the child. And now they don't know what to do with the grown up monster they created! I'm not an advocate for beating the dickens out of children, however, a little tap now and then could stop them from making unwise decisions down the road at a much later date.;)

Serioussigma22

Everyone of you had good things to say about the issue at hand and I agree that it shouldn't be taken to the extreme where CPS is on your tail b/c of it. But I can say that I'm glad that i got whoopins (even though they hurt!) but it helps you understand that you can't get your way all the time and that when you do wrong you have to face the consequences as a child you don't really understand that but when you can look back as an adult, you got the lesson that was to be learned (hopefully). I don't have any crumb snatchers but i've got many god children, neices an nephews. One of my girlfriends asked me to baby sit and the kid cut up I told my friend and she made me whoop him. Even though I had to whoop him and did I ever feel bad but he had to get the lesson:)

Bring this back to the top...

Kids need boundaries
 

If they don't learn about your authority, they will have to learn about it through the justice system. If they are given with moderation and balance, spankings can really help kids. Children need to feel that they have boundaries and structure. It helps them feel more secure. Hitting children in anger is wrong, but spanking them (and talking to them and punishing them at other times) is not.

There is an old saying...
 

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

I believe in spankings, not beatings.

I agree with the majority who have posted so I won't repeat.

Sorhors and sisterfriends,

I just left IKEA (Furniture store) and this little kid was running circles around his mother and the woman was trying to get him to be good by just talking to the three or four year old little brat! She needed to take control of the situation and spank that tail! What an annoying brat!:mad:


Serioussigma22:cool:

Now see, all it took was THE LOOK from my mother and all of that would have been over. Of course, we(myself and my two older brothers) NEVER acted like that in public (or private.) She kept us in check. Personally, I thought she had eyes in the back of her head until I was 10 or so.

Sorhor Ninjapoodle,

Who you telling about a mother having the look! I always knew never to upset my mother because she didn't play that! And she would have taken me to the restroom and let me have it for showing out in public! My five sisters and I knew better that to even think about being bad in a store, church, family gathering, in school, etc.

Serioussigma22:cool:

I'm starting to see a correlation. Maybe the 'cultural' belief we share that it's okay to spank a child explains why some people think it's okay to "pledge hard". :(

This isn't said to point fingers at anyone who believes it's okay to physically discipline children, but I just can't help drawing that parallel. For the record, I was disciplined as a child, but I don't know that it did anything other than instill a sense of fear -- not respect -- of my parents. I'm not going to be a parent, but if I were, I would never raise a hand to a child. I think that children by and large are a lot more reasonable than we give them credit for, and by hitting them we're not showing them that they deserve punishment, we're showing them that we can exert dominance and superiority over them through violence, and that violence is the best way to resolve any dispute.

SoTrue1920,

I must disagree with you on this subject! Your comments about hazing correlating with disciple is a little off! I pledged during the spr. 83' and I never, never, ever put a hand or paddle to any future sorhor! And believe me I saw a lot of lines when pledging was the process. What I think is happening is some undergraduates are just making up this crazy deviant behavior because they don't feel the connection to the MIP or intake process. If parents discipline out of love instead of anger then there is nothing wrong with spanking a child for showing disrespectful and out of control behavior.

What about those children that are coming from well to do families and have hurt or killed their classmates? A lot of those children are rotten to the core, sitting in juvenile detention or being charged as adults because mom and dad didn't discipline.

Serioussigma22

Let's turn this around:

"If a pledge master disciplines out of love instead of anger, then there is nothing wrong with spanking a pledge for showing disrespectful and out of control behavior."

Or even further:
"If a slave master disciplines out of love instead of anger, then there is nothing wrong with spanking a slave for showing disrespectful and out of control behavior."

Do you see where I'm going with this? People can use all kinds of reasons to rationalize what is basically inhuman treatment of another human being. Just because it's always been that way, it doesn't mean that it always has to be that way.


So physical abuse of someone who is already mentally unstable is justified? People don't become murderers because they have an unsatisfying home life. People don't become serial killers because their parents didn't spank them as children. People who exhibit this kind of deviant behaviour are mentally ill - and no amount of spanking or physical discipline -- no matter if it's meted out with "love" or not -- is going to change that. If anything, it'll show an already ill person that the only way to show "love" is through pain. It'll demonstrate to them that the only way they can get their point across is through intimidation and physical violence.

SoTrue1920,

I see that we are going to disagree on all points! When I was a child sometimes I deserved the discipline that my parents gave me! Let's just say that I was extremely ornery (smile)! I know their spankings did not kill me as a matter of fact they kept me from getting into trouble that might have sent me down the wrong avenues in life! I don't know what kind of discipline you are talking about, of course, if a parent is just beating a child unjustly then we are talking about child abuse and not correcting a child for misbehaving unjustly.

Second of all pledging is not about disciplining a person going through the process of becoming a member! Comparing out of control children to grown adults (Undergraduates and Graduates)becoming a member of an organization created to uplift the African American race is like comparing apples and oranges. I can only speak for my organization but pledging wasn't about hitting and beating a person. I believe that none of our founders from our perspective organizations went through any such crazy off the wall rituals and some greeks from the 70s, 80s, 90s, and the new millenium because of their lack of clear understand and self hate have incorporated such cruel measures upon perspectives. That my sister in greekdom has nothing to do with true sisterhood or brotherhood. Those are two separate categories and please let us stick with the original post! To spank or not to spank your child!

I don't think the students from Columbine, Colorado, or Springfield, Or. were mentally ill they were just a bunch of spoiled brats that were angry at the world because they didn't fit with the rest of the schools climate. Even the parents of the two boys stated that they didn't know their children used the internet to purchase weapons and plot their revenge because they were in the outgroup! I totally disagree with your spin on that assessment those children were not mentally ill. Moreover, those teenagers came from well to do families and their parents didn't withhold any material comforts from those boys. Maybe if their parents disciplined their children 13 students and a teacher might still be among us.

This is a great discussion!

Serioussigma22:cool:

Spankings
 

Hello BLUEtiful SoRHOrs and sistah friends,

I do believe in spankings but not for every child. I was a child that -in my grandparents eyes (they raised me) did not need spankings. I would cry just from the lectures and having them be disappointed in me and I would not repeat the mistake. Now, every child is not like that!!! My sisters and brother got their tails whipped every other day. They were determined to do what THEY wanted to do and boy did they pay for it. Some children listen and learn faster than others. Some children are more sensitive to things than others. My two year old pushes me to the limit all the time. She is determined to have things her way(I guess most two year olds are) but I only spank her when reinforcement is needed to MAKE her UNDERSTAND that something is BAD or WRONG (Ex. playing with electrical sockets!). Since she cannot fully comprehend everything I say to her (besides Barney and Blue's Clues) I am very careful not to over do it with the spankings but I do believe in them for some children.

That's Interesting
 

Some children don't need spankings, but some need an occasional, reasonable physical indication that parents mean business. As far as my personal experience with physical hazing and its misguided acceptance (let's just call that as it is because pledging is something altogether different), when I got to college and decided to join a sorority, I reasoned that I was an adult, so my spanking days were over. I also reasoned that my parents loved me and raised me the best way they could, but they stopped spanking me when I was about ten or eleven so I d*** sure wasn't going to let someone one or two years older than me (when I was 19 or 20) hit my behind or anything else without some equally hard blows in return.

I was spanked and punished as a child, but it showed me where the boundaries lay in terms of behavior. Sometimes reason does not work with little children, and if they are not taught how to deal with authority and respect it properly, they will have problems in their adult life that a spanking pales in comparison to.


TRSimon

Good point soRHOr
 

[posted by TRSimon]
I was spanked and punished as a child, but it showed me where the boundaries lay in terms of behavior. Sometimes reason does not work with little children, and if they are not taught how to deal with authority and respect it properly, they will have problems in their adult life that a spanking pales in comparison to.


Yes, I agree very much so soRHOr

Sorhors and sisterfriends,

I just finished reading the last three post and I totally agree with you all. Spanking as the all out answer that will solve every bad behavior is wrong. However, sometimes a spanking is the best thing for an out of control child.

Sorhor TRSimons thank you for the reinforcement about breaking down the difference between pledging and foolishness such as hazing. I still don't understand why grown folks would sit by and allow another person to put their hands on them. That's not sisterhood or brotherhood that just plain foolishness.


Serioussigma22 :cool:

Maybe because at some point in their life, someone (a parent or other adult, perhaps?) taught them by example that people who hit you/mistreat you do it out of love?

Sisterfriend in greekdom,

I totally disagree with that statement! If a person is so desparate to belong to any greek organization that they will allow another adult to put their hands on them. Then they are joining for the wrong reasons. Membership into a sorority or fraternity is not based upon whether your parents spanked you or not! Like I stated before, every BGLOs has specific statements about hazing, which has nothing to do with becoming a member of an organization. They need to stop being a follower and start being a leader!

Serioussigma22:cool:

Spank or not to spank
 

I was not spanked often as a child...probably because I did'nt try and ACT A FOOL on my parents! :)
My daughter is almost 7 months, and I hope that I will not have to spank her when she is older, but I do think that some childen need to be spanked, but it should be used as a last resort.

Tenacious1922

To Spank or not to Spank....that is the question....
 

Hola Senoritas....

I think someone said this in an earlier reply.....I believe that a child is supposed to be disciplined from early on. That way respect for themselves and for their parents are learned in the beginning. My parents taught me at an early age (I was still a baby); and as a child and now I knew my manners, how to speak to another adult, so on and so forth. I do believe that a child should get spanked, but not a BEATDOWN! I also believe that it should be used as a LAST RESORT. Thanks for listening ladies! -Yemaya-

A different point of view...
 

I was spanked as a child and don't believe it did me a bit of good. All it did was make me resentful.

I personally believe that spanking will set the child up to believe that violence is a good way to resolve a problem. I believe in gentle parenting (no physical discipline). I believe that you can effectively discipline a child (of any temperment) without using physical punishment. This starts early and requires constant and firm communication between parent and child and requires a clear set of expectations in terms of behavior, etc.

Gentle parenting is also a large part of attachment parenting, which I am also finding attractive as a method for raising independent, secure children.

I do not believe in cajoling, bribing, or any of the other 'parents as friends' systems of discipline. I believe in stating consequences and following through.

I come in contact with a lot of children these days (my friends are having babies like it's going out of style). Those parents that spank and/or try to be 'friends' to their children have brats that are unpleasant to be around, and as a result we do not associate with those friends when the children are involved in the outing. Those parents that set clear expectations and follow through with stated consequences all have children that are a joy to be around - they are well behaved and happy. They know what is expected of them and they follow through.

Just another point of view for discussion...
Also check out http://www.nospank.net/stang2.htm. Also check out the articles in the main pages - many are from respected scholarly and educational journals.

Sorhors and friends,

This question to spank or not spank I believe really has to do with how a parent or parents raise up their children. There is evident that supports and goes against spanking, however, if a parent carefully disciplines a child for doing something that will stop the bad behavior and keep the child on the right the path then it should be done. Yes, some children will never receive a spanking because they have that type of personally but there are a lot of children out there in society just purely out of control! And they really need their parents attention, guidance and even a spanking every now and then to keep them in line. It's really great that everyone has evidence to support their strong beliefs.
The bottom line is that we are going to do what we feel is best for our children. Happy parenting!

Serioussigma22 :cool:

DITTO!
 

Well said Serioussigma22!!:D

SeriousSigma -

I think you may be missing my point. The point I'm trying to make is that once you set the parameters that it's okay to hit someone to teach them a lesson and/or resolve conflict, you open the door for that to be the only means that person will understand for redress.

We can agree to disagree (respectfully, of course) :) , but I am firm in my belief that hitting a child (whether you call it "spanking" or "beating") is not the best way to teach a child valuable life lessons.

SoTrue1920,

I totally understand your point and respect your point but I just don't agree with it! We need to stop making excuses for folks that don't want to abide by the parameters, guidelines and rules set by the perspective BGLOs and those folks shouldn't be greek. I also don't agree with the correlation that being spanked for doing something wrong or stopping a horrible behavior will train up a child to think that it's okay to hit a person if they become the leader of the MIP process that's just plain foolishness. It's like comparing apples and oranges. I will agree with you that a lot folks spank children for the wrong reasons and they unfortunately are parents. And like I stated in one of my earlier post spankings or beatings are not the only form of discipline. I really think that when a parent withdrawals his/her love or approval that does just as much or even more damage and unfortunately I see it a lot when some of my students come to school and their parents have kicked them out of the house and don't want anything to do with the child. Like one of my senior girl's mother told her that she wished that the child was never born! Now that's coldblooded and some real emotional damage that seems to really scar them for life! Believe me when I say that I've seen a lot of horrible parenting during my ten years as an educator in good ole' Fairfax County Public School Systems.

Serioussigma22:cool:

Disagreement is good in that it helps you understand another person's perspective (and it helps you hone in on why you feel the way you do about a certain topic). :) Here's something I ran across in the Toronto Star today regarding bullying, child pornography, and protection of children. It's kind of long, but it's an interesting read :

"One cause of bullying, said a study summarized in the American Medical Association News Update several years ago, is spanking. Researchers followed more than 800 mothers in a longitudinal study. They found that children who were spanked, even once a week, even in otherwise loving and emotionally warm families, and despite any other social or economic factors, all showed an increase in anti-social behaviour, tendencies to cheat and lie, bullying, cruelty to others and disobedience at school.

That study doesn't stand alone. In a powerful recent book, Something To Cry About, An Argument Against Corporal Punishment of Children in Canada, author Dr. Susan Turner cites dozens of studies on the correlation between physical punishment of children and their levels of aggression in adulthood. The studies are virtually unanimous. Corporal punishment is a significant risk factor for bullying, alienation from family, poor school performance and adult violence.

In January of this year, the Ontario Court of Appeal upheld the right of teachers and parents to use "reasonable force" to "correct" their children's behaviour, in the words of Section 43 of the Criminal Code. Section 43 provides a defence for adults accused of assaulting children. Judges Stephen Goudge, Marvin Catzman and David Doherty all agreed that Section 43 strikes "a fair balance" between children's right to be protected and adults' rights to use force on children without fearing prosecution.

I'm astonished. As a society, we've now recognized that violence against schoolchildren is assault. It took us the better part of a century to establish that simple fact. It took decades and decades to show that a man has no right to hit his wife. We now call it assault, though it was once called "correction." And after all this, learned judges soberly sit on the bench and decree that violence against small, defenceless children — the deliberate infliction of pain by trusted adults — is "reasonable" and not an assault.

As Dr. Turner methodically and crisply establishes in her book, not a single rationale for hitting children can withstand clear, logical analysis, let alone moral, ethical or utilitarian considerations. Nor, in countries like Sweden and Italy where hitting children has become illegal, has there been an outbreak of arrests of parents who swatted their offspring. (That seems to be the guilty panic of the majority of Canadian parents, who constantly support Section 43 lest cops break down their doors and arrest them for spanking. As if.)

Instead, wherever corporal punishment has been outlawed, whole cultures are slowly changing to recognize the terrible, widespread harm of physical violence against children.

And the harm is reversible. A University of Minnesota study of 1,000 parents showed that children's levels of aggression and violence drop dramatically when their parents stop hitting and learn to discipline their children with attention, praise, love and clear standards of behaviour.

The rest of the article appears here .

Re: A different point of view...
 

Same here, PnguinTrax. Not only that, but because I feared my parents' anger, when I was a kid I learned to lie about the things I did -- things that were perfectly innocent, but things that my parents might not have agreed with. Not exactly model behaviour, and it's not behaviour I still engage in, but I can honestly say it's a direct result of my fear of being spanked.

Thank you for posting the No Spank Myths about Spanking! It's definitely informative. I think part of the problem is that people assume that we're making value judgements about the way they choose to raise their children. I can't speak for anyone else, but that's not my intent. How a person decides to raise his or her child is ultimately none of my business... unless a child is being threatened.

Sisterfriends,

That's great! Now you ladies realize that for every piece of evidence or statistic that supports one side of the arguement there are other articles, surveys, research that presents an opposing view. It's really great that you are against spanking in any form or fashion, however, it doesn't hurt to spank an out of controlled child. And like I stated before in numerous post some children really need that spanking to keep them safe from trying something that could or would have caused greater harm. It might not have helped you change one little bit, however, it probably kept you in line when your "id" wanted to dominate over your "superego." Some children don't respond well to any real form of parenting styles especially if you just use praise and say only good things to that child. Truly that is unrealistic and you might have a monster on your hand when the little person grows up to be a big person. Let's face it folks, that's not reality to always only hear positive things in life. I don't know any real human being that lives in a society where life is just one big happy party and your not disciplined for stepping out of line. I'm not just referring to a spanking!

Another real life experience from four of my five class periods. Currently, I have a student-teacher that has been in my classroom since January 23, 2002 and he has taken over 4 of my 5 courses. I don't allow my juniors and seniors to get away with being out of control at anytime. As I was observing my student-teacher, before the springbreak, I noticed that they were talking while he was trying to present his lessons and they were just being cruel and disrespectful (Making rude comments about his body, walking around the room while he was presenting, reading the newspaper, throwing paper at him, etc). After the lesson and during our planning period I sat down with Mr. L. and presented the positive and negative aspects of his lesson. He was a little upset after the class because he really was having a problem with all four of the classes that he is currently teaching. He told me that he didn't like to raise his voice, using a technique of just stopping and staring at the students to get them back on track and that he was afraid to say anything that might hurt their feelings in anyway. I basically told him that these students will eat you up and spit you out if you give them an inch. Most of the kids that were giving him the biggest headache are little angels for me!

The moral of the story, kids need real discipline! I'm sorry if that hurts anyone but in reality just take yourself down to a public high school or middle school and you might just change your mind about not providing young people with real discipline.

Keep the discussion going!

Serioussigma22
:cool:

1.9.2.2.