Do Africans and African Americans get along??
 

Do we still have beef with each other? I had a conversation with an African American friend who feels that it still exists. Why can we not get along? How do Africans feel they are being treated by their black American counterparts and vice versa?? Having immigrant African parents and living in the US has caused a lot tension with my black American friends throughout the years when we get into these types of conversations. What are your thoughts??

The large number of recent Somali immigrants has caused some problems here in MN. Mainly because they are considered the "good" African Americans by many in the mainstream. As a result, social service funding, academic scholarships, etc. that once went to American-born African Americans are now going to African-born African Americans.

That has been an issue with some of my friends who are in graduate school. The thought is that Africans living in the country are grouped into the African American pool when applying and therefore could potentially be "taking opportunities" away from American-born AAs. Now, I can't really speak on either side because my father was one of those Africans living who got the opportunity to go to undergrad and grad school here. But he worked his butt off to make straight As to get a scholarship to go to grad school. Who can fault that? But it seems that someone else gets kicked out of the running because he was put in the same bracket. They do not deem them as foreigners, so they cannot put them in that bracket either. Where would they go??

But it seems to me that there should be some sort of separation in the funding, particularly if the people in question are not citizens at the time.

I don't not get along with the Nigerians, Ghanians, and Ethopians I know.

However, it seems to me that issues of opportunity have always been a divisive factor for all cultural groups. It is yet another string through which some allow themselves to be manipulated. And that divisiveness only serves a few interests in the end.

Is there some sort of reason that you do not get along with those particular groups and not others or are those the only Africans that you know (as I am Nigerian)?

Most students who are foreigners would get a student visa specifically designed to JUST come to school and leave when it is obtained, so the "special" funding has already been applied. I believe that the issue of discussion (or rather, what I have brought up) is the case of Africans who are citizens, but have the desire to eventually want to return to their country of origin when they obtain what they want from the US. It is felt that they don't "care" about the U.S. The mentality is "get mine and get out"

I think some of the other tensions arise because those who are AAs rather than American born AAs do not share the same perspective when it comes to being black in the US. I know that most of my African friends (foreigners and those 1st or 2nd generation Americans) feel that it is their hard work, tenacity, and sheer will to succeed because they have no other choice that gives them that push to succeed. It is the thought that hard work can overcome all. My American born AAs feel that although that it is the case, the long term affects of slavery is what keeps us down and despite our best efforts, there will be new and improved ways for us to stay there.

There are merits to both sides, but I wanted to see what others feel about it.

The use of the double negative indicates she gets along with those groups. So don't fret, she loves you!!!:D

Ahh...I see. Sorry about that. My mind glossed over the "not" part. I was about to say....that's very specific!

And don't worry, it's all love. It is an interesting topic indeed because it comes up more often than not. A friend of mine feels that he has nothing in common with some of his African counterparts in grad school and most of the "black people" are African. He feels that he is under represented even within that subcategory.

I've also seen this in California, to a smaller extent.

On a related note, a soror who I know has said that many of her chapter's scholarship recipients are Ethiopian immigrants or first-generation Americans. We have a UG soror who is a first-generation American of Ethiopian parentage.

And this is part of the tension. Whereas first generation Americans would like to think that they were awarded those scholarships based on individual merit, others would think that they are taking those scholarships away from the "rightful" owners....Can they help it when it was earned?

My friend argues that American born AAs are shut out of these opportunities because of the ingrained inferiority complex that AAs have felt for generations and/or the agenda the government puts in play to keep us away from those opportunities.

I tend to be on the side that says individual merit will get you far, but that doesn't mean that we don't feel our share of discrimination as well...if not more so. Not only do we have to fight harder because we have a dark skin color, we have to fight for those that do not trust foreign accents, funny last names, and overall, people that DON'T look and sound American.

In the Bay Area I [and other Af-Am's] have had conflicts with African taxi drivers. Now, I avoid their cabs when possible, b/c I have had so many bad experiences. I've had people yelling at me, demand to see money up front before they start driving, taking a LONG route to increase the fare. Other than taxi drivers, I haven't had too many problems with Africans. Maybe it's something about the tempremant of those who decide to drive taxis. I haven't had nearly as many problems with taxi drivers that are from other places.

To clarify my point. The funding to which I was referring are set-asides for Somali immigrants. But instead of them coming from expanded funding pools, they are re-allocated from existing pools, thus decreasing the funding available to American-borns that previously qualified for the funding.

I don't want to get into an argument about African immigrants. And like I said, here in MN it is specific to Somali immigrants. We have the second largest number in the US. These problems did not present themselves before.

Also, I have found Somalis to be rude, to look down on American-borns, and to not want to associate with the larger African American community, which here has always included other African immigrants. So they do not just disassociate themselves from American-borns, but other African-borns as well.

I have not had that experience with other 1st generation Africans including Somalians (I've actually had really good experiences with the ones I've met) but we do have a commonality that our parents were African.

I hope that your comments weren't meant as a sweeping generalization because I'm not looking forward to the reactions of those that are of that origin, but it might be because they do not understand American-born AAs.

The fact that many of them had to work so hard (sometimes just getting lucky to win the "lottery") to come to America and find sooo many opportunities to make money, it's absurd to them to see others complain.

The poorest part of the US can't even compare to an average neighborhood where my father's from, so I can see that. I just am able to see things from both sides.

[hijack]

What you are experiencing is VERY TYPICAL of the immigrant generation. Many immigrant parents, no matter what country of origin, tell their kids not to become "too American" (or in my case, too Canadian) because they don't want their kids to forget about their heritage and traditions. The immigrant generation likes the better opportunities offered to them here, but often don't like or don't understand the customs of their adopted country. Don't get upset. Things will change as families are hear longer.

[/hijack]

This is an interesting topic. I too am Nigerian. I was born there, but raised in the States. In terms of funding for school, the funding I received was not due to my foriegn status, rather my merit. I haven't had to deal with that issues.

In terms of relationships between Africans and American AA, alot of the attitudes and disassociation given to American AA comes from societial influences that have been around for years. For example, Many Africans believe, to a large extent, the sterotypes that have been placed on American AA. All negetivities that one would assume/think of when referring to American AA, many Africans believe it is the truth. So with that mentality, Africans do not want to be lumped into the same catagory as American AA and strive in may ways to seperate themselves. It's sad, but ture. I have family members like that.

@ Jells,
I was informed quite pointedly that they are Somalis not Somalians. And as I have emphasized, what I have described is what is happening here in MN. I am talking about MN. I have not met any other Somalis, so I could not make a sweeping generalization if I wanted to. And as I have stated, I have not experienced negative issues with other African immigrants here--from Nigeria, Liberia, or Ethiopia. Nor have they experienced the advantages given to Somalis or isolated themselves from the greater African American community.

As for seeing others complain. The Somalis here are complainers and intimidators. That is what is absurd. And I won't even get into the struggle that American-borns have had over decades to get to where we even are now.

I think there are definite cultural differences which factor into the relationships between Africans and African Americans such as different religions, protocol for interacting with elders and different expectations for men and women and children. Neither group is better or worse than the other b/c we are all victims of a divide and conquer strategy to keep oppressed people from building alliances and rising up against our oppressors.

I think that the problems ladygreek is referring to in MN and other parts of the Midwest is a result of the refugee relocation agreement the U.S. has with Somalia. There was a relocation package for Vietnamese immigrants as well. Instead of creating relocation packages based on newer sources of funding, the fed and state gov't often take money from existing gov't sponsored programs, usually those ear-marked for the poor and/or those living in urban areas. These packages include full welfare and Medi-care benefits, reduced college tuition, work visas and section 8 housing.

What this does, however, is pit other minority and/or improverished groups against one another for scarce resources. Furthermore, several states agree to these packages at the insistence of local businesses who want to undercut native-born workers who might be asking for too much in wages and benefits. In California, a similar trend occurred with the Mexicans during WWII with the bracero program which was designed to bring Mexican agricultural workers to the state to work crops while native born American workers were serving in the war and those that remained demanded higher wages and better working conditions. The Bracero program opened the door for a surge in legal and illegal immigration and Mexicans moved into areas that were affordable which put them into direct contact with Black folks. So now you have 2 groups fighting from crumbs, there is bound to be conflict.

I think a large part of the problem between Africans and African Americans is due to this pitting oppressed groups against one another by making life in urban, improverished areas so unbearable that people lash out at those groups who are "different". This is a result of slavery in the U.S. and colonization in Africa - we're playing right into the oppressors' hand when we target one another.

I recall about a year ago, I went out with a Black guy (African American) who asked me if I would ever date an African.
Me: "Sure, why not?".
Him: "You must not like yourself then!"
Me: "Excuse me?"
Him: "Those people are not like us."
Me: "You know you descended from THOSE people."
Him: "Not me. I'm more American than African"
Me: "Ask a white person if they see your American-ness more than your African identity. By the way, you know this is our first and only date!"
Him: "Suit yourself. If you want to mix yourself up with them, that's your perogative"
Me: "I know...I'd rather "mix myself up with them" than entertain an f#$%ing moron!!"

Sometimes all I can do is shake my head and pray God delivers us from our own psychosis :rolleyes:

PhDiva

Well, my friend spent a semester in Kenya and she said over there they love Black Americans. She said they watch more BET than we do. I'm sure that's just one perspective, because I've seen other things out there. I'd like to visit Africa and find out myself one day.

OMG, I hope the Kenyans aren't basing their love of Black Americans on BET. LOL

Just to be clear I am talking about private funding as well--foundations and corporate giving funds. The main reason seems to be that the results are easily seen early-on. Versus the amount of long-term funding needed in the American-born community to combat the vestiges of decades of racism.

Also let me state, that I did not become disenchanted with Somali immigrants until I personally and my staff were looked down upon, ignored, and treated rudely many times by the participants in my (Black) workplace's Somali program. It has nothing to do with feeding in to the oppressor. It has to do with stanky attitudes of we are better than you.

Also it is ironic that you mentioned the Vietnam refugees, because we have among the highest percentage of them here, too. (MN is a very liberal state in welcoming immigrants.) Once considered the ideal immigrant groups, they are the ones now perpetuating violence. And Southeast Asian gangs are no joke. The turmoil between and among clans--Hmong, Cambodian, Vietnamese, etc. is astounding. And the same thing is beginning to happen with the Somali clans.

Ladies please forgive me forbudding into your forum.

A worked with a man from South Africa for about ten years that explained to me that his reason for not associating with African-Americans had really nothing to do with being lumped together with the negative stereotypes found here and overseas. Rather he was simply reacting simply to the fact that he did not understand African-American culture. Because it was so different from his own culture, it was hard for him to find a common cultural ground. He did get married to an African-American here in the States has has since told me they have worked through any cultural differences.

I have also worked with several Somalis here on student visas. Each student would classify himself as being arab since Arabic was their native language. One student went so far as pulling out his university papers to show me that he was "white" since he was from the Middle East (North Africa).

Please be mindful that the continent of Africa is very, very diverse.

The only negative interactions with Africans I have ever had are from Nigerians. I worked with a Nigerian girl 10 years ago and after training her incompetent dumb ass she had nothing but negative things to say about me and other African Americans to whoever would listen. I was very surprised at her prejudices toward us. Since then I have noticed that many Nigerians act the same way. (mainly cab drivers!!)

On the other hand, I have a friend and hair-braider from Sierra Leone who was the sweetest and kindest person to ever put hands in my hair.

In addition, my children's first day care provider is my neighbor and very good friend. She is from Ghana. I would do anything for her. She has been like a mother to them and I trust her any day!

@ luvtoscrap,
All are welcomed here, well except Rudey, RA Cooper, Tom Earp (just kidding, guys.) :D

Exactly! Just like all the continents. The French are very different from the Germans although they are all Europeans.

There are going to be rude people no matter who it is, but as white people are soooo used to doing, we tag that stigma to a whole class of people because we do not understand them. Not that this is always the case, but I have noticed that (of any groups), people tend to attribute positive experiences to an individual and negative experiences to the whole group. Where do we draw the line between someone truly being a biatch/ass/ racist and an attitude shared by a culture?

If there is a divide and conquer strategy and we KNOW that the government is setting us up for conflict, we do we still have an issue? One would believe that recognizing and admitting the problem is the first step in solving it...well, we've recogized the problem and the main reason why...why stop there? What can we now DO about it??

As far as the cab drivers are concerned, I have found EVERY cab driver I have met, be them Nigerian, Indian, Arab, white, etc to be rude. That seems part of the business, does it not?? Get em in, get em out, and get paid...

But then again, I only take cabs when in New York, and all New York people are inconsiderate and rude.... JUST KIDDING!!! I love you all!!! (not really, but some of ya'll) ;) ;)

Now see, I've taken cabs in CA, NV, GA, and LA. And it wasn't until my visit to ATL that I got the rudeness. But, that's the only time I've taken a cab by myself...an unarmed young woman with nobody to stick up for her, I'm sure he probably felt like he could be rude and get away with it. So is it just that all cab drivers are rude or that it's only drivers in certain areas and are you alone and female?

There are so many mitigating circumstances that go along with prejudices. Like how a lot of Southern blacks (in certain areas) hole an "all white people are out to get us" mentality, but as a Californian, I've dealt with a miniscule amount of racism in my life. But is it just in my area b/c where I live is completely different from say, Oakland, LA, Sacramento, Diego, etc. So can you say my experience is along the lines of the majority of white people or are my southern friends'? Can my friend who went to Kenya say she's right, or can those who've heard more negative things? Because of the diversity in African cultures (and US cultures, and cab driver cultures) it's absolutely impossible to have just one label.

ladygreek,

No doubt...I agree with you but I want to understand where many of these stank attitudes emanate from. Does that excuse the behavior? Of course not, but I can definitely respond differently when I understand some of the reasons behind the funky behavior.

Let me give you an example. Years ago, while in undergrad, I took a couse called "Black Women in America" and this particular semester, a guy from Japan enrolled in the class. It wasn't unusual for American-born Asians, Whites, Hispanics to enroll but one day I was just curious as to why this guy who could barely speak English would enroll in this course. So the professor who obviously had the same question asked him, "why did you enroll in this course?".

He said, "I wanted to see if the picture books I got from the U.S. Embassay were true." We all asked what picture books and he proceeded to pull out "Guides to Dealing with Black Folks" courtesy of the U.S. government. In the picture books were caricatures of Black women who had 8 breasts and a baby suckling on each one with a caption along the line of "watch out for the welfare queen!!" and other derogatory stereotypes like that. To say we were shocked and angry was an understatement :mad: :eek: :mad:

The Japanese guy also told us that his Korean friend had a similar book that portrayed Black folks as violent thugs trying to steal from Korean owned stores. The Korean "Guide to Business Ownership in Black Communities" was also published by the U.S. department of tourism and commerce. And it was like a lightbulb went off in our heads b/c we all at once started to get some clue as to why the interactions between Asians (particularly foreign born Asians) and Blacks has always been tense. The U.S. government was mass producing derogatory images of Black folks abroad and those folks were interacting with Blacks based on false information.

So my point is that yes, their attitudes might be stank. They may think their boo-boo don't stink but alot of those superior beliefs are fed by our government. So I try to temper my response to their silliness with questions like "what makes you think white Americans don't think the same way about you?" or "does being rude over cab fare get you any closer to getting out of poverty?"...Then too, it might be the teacher in me that prefers to take turn things like this into teachable moments so I can prevent someone getting an unnecessary beat-down :p

PhDiva

Can you remember any more specifics about these books or pamphlets? The reason I ask is that they might be helpful in a social anthropolgy paper I'm working on...

Basically I'm examining the covert and subversive methods used by certain "Racial Supremists or Racial Nation" organizations and movements in spreading misinformation under the guise of legitimate academics or governmental agencies... and these books may or may not be candidates for inclusion - depending on thier origins (ie. from a government agency as opposed to through a government agency). Examples of extra-national operations do exist, but are very hard to come by as most are the products of individuals and not the oganizations/movements themselves.

Re: Do Africans and African Americans get along??
 

This is on a person-to-person basis. I get annoyed when Africans make generalizations of African Americans and vice versa. Some Africans and African Americans get along very well. I feel a kinship with everyone from the African Diaspora. We're the same people, just some of us our ancesters were picked up and dropped off at different continents.

I know quite a bit about Africa, have family members and close acquaintances who are African, and my name is Swahili (I know not every African country speaks Swahili). Yet, without fail, Africans often meet me and automatically start to give me an "African tutorial." That's as insulting as my meeting Africans and treating them like they just arrived in America yesterday and/or haven't learned English.

Exactly!! That's also called "attribution theory."

I completely disagree. I see many more similarities than differences. The differences are those of (a generalizable) American culture as compared to African culture (there is no ONE culture) and not African American culture as compared to African culture.

But, there are a lot of countries in Africa, so we have to be careful not the generalize an entire continent. There are differences between Kenyans and Nigerians, for example.

Wow @ those books! But since this thread is about the relationships between Africans and African Americans, I have to ask, are African immigrants given the same books? And if so why would they buy into it? That would be like me buying into the images I say growing up all Africans being from the Deep Congo where men wore nothing but loin cloths and bones through their noses and the women wore grass skirts with their breasts hanging free--think not only the fictional movies but National Geographic on TV. :rolleyes:

So I am not going to take the time to ask someone why they look down on me or try to turn it into a teachable moment. The folx I have encountered here are not unintelligent, gullible people.

"But since this thread is about the relationships between Africans and African Americans, I have to ask, are African immigrants given the same books? And if so why would they buy into it? That would be like me buying into the images I say growing up all Africans being from the Deep Congo where men wore nothing but loin cloths and bones through their noses and the women wore grass skirts with their breasts hanging free"

Actually, I get that more than not! When I tell people that I'm going to Nigeria, they ask me if my family live in huts or what "tribe" they belong to as if Africans have not evolved from cavemen and women. Some say it in jest, but the fact is that they are surprised that there are shopping malls, modern cities and housing, and other amentities that are similiar to the U.S. It's just the images you see and hear about are not consistent with reality. Unfortunately, people don't want to take the time to research things on their own. Some are simply content on believing everything they see or hear and taking it for face value...

@Jells,
Just a fyi. If you hit the quote button beneath the post to which you are responding, it will print it for you. Then you can delete parts of it if you want to. Just don't delete the *open bracket* quote*closed bracket* *open bracket*/quote*closed bracket* html code around it. brackets =[ ]