New Member Education: What do you think?
 

I am wondering how this community feels about the intake process. Do people still want to keep on pledging people to near death because it make it seem like the worked for their letters and others didn't? Do people feel the the NME should be more about a holistic improvement in the pledges life?

I believe in the latter. I think pledging should be about improving yourself physically, mentally, and emtionally. I think that people should put more emphasis on the purpose of the organization, on the pledges reasons for pledging, on how to run a successful organization, on how to put on programming, and so on and so forth.

As far as hazing goes, if we are talking about getting paddle to death...uh...NO! That is stupid IT SERVES NO PURPOSE. If we are talking about pushing someone past their limits, the limits of who they are rigt now, well that to me has a purpose. As long as we keep that purpose alive, we would find that hazing wouldn't be a problem much longer.

Our new members are treated like princesses and showered with love and presents. You can real all about our New Member program online here.


The New Member period is 6-8 weeks where the New Members learn about the values and history of Delta Gamma. It get's them familiar with the women in the chapter and the things that we do...there is nothing negative about it at all.

There is no hazing, no paddleing, nothing. The worst part of being a new member is being kept in suspense the week before you find out who your big sister is! ;)

We are the exact same way, and we do not make our new members "work" for their letters. Matter of fact, they can wear letters as soon as they receive their bid. But our chapter was established last year. It seems to me that fairly new chapters shower new members with love and gifts, where as the older chapters (at least at my school) have a more strict new member period. I do agree that the purpose of the new member period is to learn about the organization's history and become familar with the sisters of the chapter.

Hazing is illegal.

Hazing does nothing but put the fraternity at risk.

I will say that the NPC sororities don't condone any sort of testing of new members "worthiness."

In ADPi, new members hold all the same privileges as initated members, except that they do not participate in ritual until their initaition. Otherwise, they may attend meetings, vote, hold office, wear letters and enjoy all the other rights and whatnot accorded to any member.

One thing I find troubling is the tendency to blame the media when a chapter is exposed for hazing. Why don't we jump all over that chapter for abusing one of our own and making us look like a bunch of cavemen, or worse yet, undisciplined children with a Lord of the Flies mentality?

Of course hazing is illegal, but I think hazing has to wide a definiation.

I agree when a chapter gets in trouble, it is no ones problem but THEIR OWN. The media amplify the situtation, BUT that is the chapters fault.

Re: New Member Education: What do you think?
 

I have a question. What year are you in college?

What do college kids really know about pushing people past their limits? They only have a HS diploma behind them. I don't care if they go to Harvard or left-elbow State U. Being in college is about growing as a person, the whole thing is a challege. The lofty terms of "pushing someone past their limits, the limits of who they are rigt now" what does that mean? I don't mean to be rude, but come on.

I don't mean to make college kids sound dumb, they aren't, but they are still growing up, they are not trained to do be drill sargents or life reprogramers in my opinion. NME should be about bonding with your chapter and class in a healthy environment so you can find your place within the group and use the entire college experience to grow in a number of ways. You pledge for a month and half, you can have a cold that long, not become a new person.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comments, but these arguements irriate me.

One more item- hazing hurts more than just the chapter and individuals involved. We know that it hurts the greek community on that campus through perception and then it also hurts groups on a national level from PR to insurance rates. If you are stupid and hurt someone, the insurance companies see that and my rates go up. Greeks are a community, in many ways we share each others pains.

/soapbox

It's irrelevant what we think. I also agree with you that the definition of hazing is too wide. however, we are alone to blame for this. Ultimately, we have to follow the law so we will not be sued to extinction. No if or but about it.

Do you really trust 18 to 21 years old pushing other 18 to 21 years old to the limits? Most of these kids don't know what their own limits are. How would they know what other people's limits are?

Re: Re: New Member Education: What do you think?
 

What I was talking was self improvement. The tools you learn during NME teach alot about yourself and help you better your life. I feel after joining my fraternity, my whole life got better. And I have proof. I am becoming an outstanding leader, my grades got better, everything is going up. I attrubute this to my NME. I dont' really condone hazing at all. I don't think that hazed members are any better members, in fact some times they are the worst members.

wrussell, there are programs already implemented by many national fraternities that will make the members a better man without pushing them to their limits. My organization's particular program is the Balanced Man Project. You can find out about this program here:

Balanced Man Project

Re: Re: Re: New Member Education: What do you think?
 

Define 'tools'

edit- You didn't say what year you were.

I think that fraternities and sororities should educate the entire membership as to becoming a better man or woman. This process cannot be mastered in the short time of pledging!

That's why Alpha Delta Pi developed our TME program for the whole chapter, and I would imagine that most NPC sororities will soon do so, if they haven't already developed a similar program.





As for the word "tool", Little E, I'm trying to send you my thoughts telepathically! ;)

Re: Re: Re: Re: New Member Education: What do you think?
 

I'm assuming that wrussell is referring to life lessons you learn; time management, how to work as a team, leadership skills, etc.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Re: Re: Re: New Member Education: What do you think?
 

Just remember to emphasize your letters and the fact that you are in a Latino/Latina fraternity/sorority while "hazing" and it's what only you guys do. Heck emphasize that others don't if you can too.

Y'all keep on doing what you're doing and I'm sure others will feel insulated enough not to comment.

-Rudey

I agree. Follow the law. I trust that the people who are handling the NME are mature about the situation. I am simply saying that if you have stupid kids running a NME program, then OF COURSE you will have problems, and I am sure that happens but I trust in a chapters selection of the NME team that they have been educated on how teach lessons and I don't mean pushing limits through violence physical or mental.

Re: Re: Re: Re: New Member Education: What do you think?
 

I am finishing my junior year.

That is funny you say that. Because I agree with the sentiment, a brother once told me that the real pledging begins when you are brother. He was refering to running programs, managning the chapter, balancing everything, and still all the while having fun and continuing the grow. I agree this process is a lifetime of learning. The pledging process is a starting place. That is my belief.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New Member Education: What do you think?
 

That is exactly what I am talking about. These are skill that take a life time to master, and I believe NME is good place to hone this skills/tools.

Re: Re: Re: Re: New Member Education: What do you think?
 

I am not sure if this is an insult. But I wasn't hazed. I simply commenting on what I have read. EVERYONE says they don't haze, yet it happens, no? My chapter doesn't haze. But those are just words, what else can an organzation do, I stand wholeheartly with them - WE DO NOT AND WILL NOT HAZE. I am sorry that you feel some way against my org.
Honestly this comment has me lost. LOL.

Wrussell, I think you've had a continual case of "foot in mouth" disease. It doesn't seem to be on purpose, but you're really rubbing some folks the wrong way around here it seems. It might be best for you to take a step back. And in some cases, just let things go (not speaking of this thread in particular).

???? I am so lost. I thought this was a method for intelligent discussion. I think this thread has it. I think in some others I have read have it. What do you mean foot in mouth? I don't understand why I rub people the wrong way? Why is it that I have to let things go? Other people can too. I am not even angry or upset or anything. I just wanted to discuss certain things that I have a great interest in. Can someone just come out and tell me intelligently what I am doing wrong? That is all. But thank you Kddani for let me know that I am rubbing people the wrong way, I seriously don't mean to do it.

Read some of the comments previously written, the whole comment. Then read them again and think about what they say. Your responses did not address the meat of your replies.

Also search and see what other threads have or what nat'l websites say about their programs. Then come back.

Read all the comments. I don't know exactly what you are getting at? My whole purpose for this post was to see what people think about NME versus the old way of doing things. I think that national programs are great. I think everyone is different in their reception of what they feel helps them the best. But if there is something I missing please let me know, thank you.

Well first i've read your posts in a thread in one of the BGLO forums where you started it asking what appears to have been a VERY inappropriate question. Instead of apologizing and walking away, you kept at it and have continued to try to battle it out. You keep on trying to explain but in reality you just need to zip it and move on, having learned your lesson. You gotta know when to quit.

I don't see what you're even looking for here in this thread. I've never seen a single person on this board advocate "pledging people to near death because it make it seem like the worked for their letters and others didn't?".

All of our orgs, at least the national/international ones, have very specific policies against hazing and have very extensive policies and programs to combat it. The kind of hazing you're speaking of is also against the law. There are no real arguments in favor of it. What on earth are you looking for people to say?

A great example of how you can rub people the wrong way on here is to not bother to take the time to educate yourself by learing about groups in general or by using the SEARCH feature here on GC to read similar threads. If you have something new, unique, thought-provoking or whatever to bring up, then great! However, this thread topic has been discussed in great detail elsewhere and is pretty much an obvious sort of question. I'm really not trying to be harsh here, just trying to explain to you why people are reacting to you the way they are :)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New Member Education: What do you think?
 

What has you lost?

You want to redefine hazing and making pushing people beyond their limits acceptable. You give yourself as an example (you must be the next great thing).

I want you to push your pledges as hard as you can and make sure to wear your letters and to say you are a latina/latino org and that others don't want to do what you do.

If what you're saying is fine, then you shouldn't see what I wrote as an insult. You should be proud of your letters and your pledge process and want to distinguish yourself from other groups.

-Rudey

Ok...WOW....I think Rudey and Danille have me all wrong. LOL. I maybe I had a typo. I was trying to say that IT IS WRONG TO BEAT UP PEOPLE TO MAKE THE JOIN YOUR ORGANIZATION. That is how I feel honestly. I AGREE WITH THE LAW, I hope that it makes people turn to the right way of educating pledges. Such teaching them how to run an organization, how lead, how to better people, etc. I don't care how hard people pledge. HAZING IS COMPLETELY WRONG! It is more than ridiculous. LOL When i say push people to their limits, I DIDN'T MEAN PHYSICALLY...I am talking about helping them do better in school, I am talking about helping them think through situtations. Please, please, please understand - I am an advocate for NON-HAZING NME. I just wondered if most people where down with that same thing, because I have noticed that alot of people are more concerned with TRADITION and PRESTIGE than educated quality members.

Danille, I appriecate your explaination. Finally, someone gives it straight and intelligently. The reason I keep pushing was to apologize, but they wanted to attack me. But I am done. Honestly, it isn't that serious. Thanks again.

I didn't say you did or didn't do anything. What did I write that you hadn't written?

I am saying to do what you're talking about and make sure you publicize it's what you guys do. Simple, right?

If it's beating someone or bringing them flowers, I really don't care. We all seem to get lumped together just a little too much for my tastes when things go wrong and I want to create those lines of distinction to apply evenly when things go right or wrong.

-Rudey

wrussell, dont try to ask questions like this again on GC!:)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am 4 one am embarresed by some posters who call Ya out for asking and speaking your mind.

I think from what I have read are true questions and statements of what your feelings are.

Ignore some asses and keep asking quesrtions, and making statements.

You do seem a person of Integrity.:) PM Me anytime.

A Moderator who tries to be a Greek.

Oh, I have a round nose compared to others!:D

To hell with Pledging AND Membership Intake.

I am all over this "Continuous Values Based Education" thing like the Balanced Man program and others like it. I am very appreciative of those of you in NPC and NIC organizations who have shared those programs with us on GC.

Thanks alot. I do appriecate it.

My Pleasure!:D

As I said, You can PM Me anytime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

Re: New Member Education: What do you think?
 

I can only speak for my views, which are based on how my organize views pledging (we still call it that).

To me, the purpose of pledging is to prepare the pledge for active membership. This means getting them into the habits we expect of members (in our case, doing service, attending/participating in meetings, being a leader in the chapter, paying dues, wearing insignia, etc), educating them in our organization, its purpose, history, structure, etc, and overall giving them the knowledge that will serve them well as a Brother.

Pledging is not and should not be thought of as a gauntley, elimination course, 'survivor course', 'boot camp experience' or the like. While we would like pledges to improve themselves in the experience, this improvement needs to be done in a positive manner that does not violate the spirit of our organization. Hazing has no place in the pledge program.

I would think that every (if not all) GLO has set down policies regarding their pledging/NME programs and hazing. For my organization, we have our National Pledge Standards, Membership Policy, and Risk Managament Policy, all of which are both on our website and included in our National Pledge Manual.

(This is an area that I am somewhat knowledge about, as I've been a pledgemaster and have taught courses on pledging.)

Also, personally, I don't agree with the renaming of pledge/pledging into "new member" and "new member education". I don't agree with the attitude by some that just USING the term 'pledge' is hazing. Pledges are NOT 'new members', they are really 'probationary members'. There is no guarantee that a pledge will complete the process and become a full member. So using such a term gives, to me, the wrong impression.

Hope this is of interest.

COVABE! (as Russ said) can work, but the program has to be set up so the members other than pledges really are learning something new and something they WANT to learn.

Yup, the programs are as good as its implimentation. The chapter must want to implement the program fully. No half arse.

i think each organization has a different reason as to why they do or do not use the word pledge. i don't think it is hazing to use the word. it does seem that many use the word in a derogatory manner, meaning they may something like "he/she's JUST a pledge," like a pledge is not worthy of respect or something.

i look it at this way....you make a pledge to the organization; it's something you DO, not something you ARE. we have a pledge ceremony, just do not call them that. we use new member because they have been invited into membership and it is possible that they will not be initiated, but we do not hold that over their heads. it is also possible for initiated members to lose their membership. either way, if you are not meeting the standards of membership, you can be kicked out, new member or not.

not aruging, just throwing my thoughts out there. :)

Well I can see where Michael is coming from as a fellow APO brother. We do not have a membership selection process like NPC or NIC - anyone who wants to pursue membership can, but there is no guarantee they will be successful in that pursuit. So for APO to be told they couldn't use the word "pledge" and had to call them "new members" would be, in effect, false advertising.

As far as NPC groups not using the word "pledge" I think it's asinine. You can put all the same connotations on new member, Phi, pearl member etc that you can put on pledge. And personally I would much rather be called a pledge than some of the "cutesy" names I have heard...but maybe that's just me.

LOL. When I was a Phi at a MDA telethon, one of the hosts asked me if I had to earn the "Mu"

There can be a sort of "non-physical" hazing that happens at schools also. Last fall i pledged an organization (non-NPC) that told me and the other girl that pledged that we had to "work" for our letters.

If I had known that "working" for our letters meant being interrogated every meeting---standing up in a line, wearing the same outfit as my pledge sister, and getting yelled at while trying to recite our New Member Educator's favorite color, hobby, and # of siblings--I would have given that sorority a second chance.

I really thought that all sororities did this, until I can on here and heard about all the wonderful things their "New Member process" intales.

I can tell you that I dont know ANY information about that sorority I pledged. I CAN tell you that my New Member's Educator's favorite color was purple, that she had 3 other siblings, and her hobbies included Dancing, Singing, and History. What that has to do with the sorority I wanted to join is beyond me.

My individual chapter, Epsilon Zeta, does not allow new members to wear the actual letters until they are intiated because they don't know what they mean yet. We feel that it means more to a new member to know what the letters are before wearing them. It was so exciting for me on my day of initiation to actually be able to wear letters! We allow them to put the letters on their car and such, but nothing on their body until initiated. However, they are allowed to wear clothing items with the words "Alpha Gamma Delta" or "Alpha Gam," just not the letters.