Nothing like being shot at... yet again
 

I'm really starting to get sick of the f***king gun violence in my neighboorhood... but more than that I'm getting sick of the cowards in the 'community' that protects the a**holes that do it.

Major shootings in the neighbourhood:

Scenario 1:
Three years ago, I'm down picking up some Chinesse (need the walk) when I hear what sounds like fireworks... and then see some security guy sprinting down the middle of the street between cars... followed by some guy with a MAC-10 blazing away. The shooter empties his gun and runs back to an apartment building, grabs his car and flees. Cops show up and track down the building security guard, and try and figure out what the hell is going on. Turns out the shooter objected to the security guard having his car ticketed - so the cops go to the apartment to nail the guy... but the folks in the apartment building won't talk - so the cops stake out the place and nail him when he comes back 2 days later.

Scenario 2:
Last year I decide to check out the new Falafal place a couple of blocks from my house - see if they got good Shwarma ;) While chatting with the owners and getting my shwarma the front window shatters, because some guy across the street in the apartments is shooting a f**cking AK-47 at some guy who "disrespected" him. I hit the deck at the first shot, and crawl behind the counter (not that it would have done much) and stay there to the cops show - cops cordon of apartment and commence a apartment to apartment hunt for the shooter. They corner him and the guy starts shooting at theme through the walls- one cop is hit in the vest. Cops toss in a stun grenade, and rush him. Community outraged that the shooter suffers a broken collar bone during the arrest, an "outrage" given the shooter was 14.

Scenario 3:
A couple of months ago I was on my regular bus route (heading to York U Library); bus in front stops and all the passengers bolt out of it - apparently some thugs at the back started mouthing off and harrassing this guy at the back - mocking him for being white, reading a book, and for listening to "crap music" on a walkman - guy tells them to shut up - thugs pull out gun and shoot him... and 11 year-old girl in the face. 40 people on the bus bail - only 5 waited for the cops or help the guy that was shot (the girl and mother ran with the rest of the crowd). To date only 7 people on the bus have talked to the police...


Scenario 4:
Yesterday I get off the subway at Yorkdale (major mall and transit point) during rush-hour and head on down to the pick-up point to start walking to Home Depot to meet up with a friend from another chapter - car pulls up, guy gets in, guys talk, passenger bails, driver starts firing at the guy and crowd... two women are hit in the 18 or so shots. Once again the crowd scatters, and only a few people remain to help those hit and wait for the cops.
Two women shot outside subway
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...acodalogin=yes

All of this violence is sorely testing my faith in our immigration system (first two scenarios the shooters where illegally here - scenario 3 the shooter had a heavy Jamacian accent so who knows). The violence is also pointing out that we need to lock down the border with the US tighter - to many guns are still getting through... Finally the "community" has to come to it's senses and realize that loyality should be about race or country of origin - a criminal is a criminal.

EDITED TO ADD:
Link to the memorial for of a police officer shot a decade ago (mentioned in a later post ~ sorry about the delay in tracking down a link) - down the block from my grandparents place (up to a year ago they still left their door unlocked).
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/honou...ndex.php?id=34

There is more I could have added but I honestly have forgotten about many others (kinda worries me) - but I do remember a fair amount of organized crime related "hunting accidents" back in the 80s early 90s (anyone interested just do a search for Comisso (yes same guys from bakery :rolleyes: )

I think you need to move.

Dayum who knew folks was getting it cracking in Canada.

I keep hearing that T.O. is getting real violent nowadays, but that's just ridiculous!

Which areas were the first 3 scenerios?

Scenario 1 - Jane St - between Lawrence and 401
Scenario 2 - Weston Rd, just south of Lawrence
Scenario 3 - Jane St - just south of Wilson

Again this is all near the area where Constible Todd Bayliss was killed years ago (still unsolved - and 2 blocks from the division HQ) - please see link in first post.

Pssst, time to move out of the hood. :D


I feel ya, though. I was with a friend of mine one time a couple years ago and we were going to buy some coke from this guy he knew. It wasnt that much maybe an ounce for 1000$, something like that. Anyhow, we get to this really dirty house in the ghetto and the guy turns out to be some cracked out looking fool. We get in there and I start having flash backs from Scarface, thinking I was Tony Montana, and I had this erie feeling. So for some reason I left the door cracked and not shut all the way but made it to where the guy didnt notice. Anyhow, my boy Ken starts talking and the dude asks for the money. Next thing I know dude pulls out a 9mm and Ken takes off running for the door after pushing the guy down. I got knocked out of his way when he made his dash for the door and I happened to look over and see the guy getting up......after that I just reacted instead of thinking and went after the dude. I started kicking him and stomping him. The gun was knocked out of his hand but I just kept kicking him in the head. Now that I look back on it I think I was trying to kill the guy because I didnt stop. I just kept thinking in my head that this guy thought he was the shit so much to the point where he felt safe pulling a gun on me....I'm going to put his azz in a coma. Anyhow, Ken dragged me off the guy and took the coke off of him and we left. And that was the end of that.

Re: Nothing like being shot at... yet again
 

[rant mode on]

Guess the T-Dot cops need to learn to give these perps 'wood shampoos', 'Thom McAn ass-kickings' and 'Mag-Lite enemas'. Put the respect for the police - and the fear of God - in the populace. And the community is PISSED that the doer got a broken collarbone? He shoulda been shot for resisting arrest!

[rant mode off]

Such is life in the big city...

It's more of a split between old and new... or more aptly old and young residents in the neighbourhood.

At the last community meeting (about another subject) there where complaints made by some that the cops were targeting them because either because they are young or becuase they are black - or both... which led to some of the older citizens retorting that they are being targeted because they are openly drinking underage or smoking up or vandalizing property - which ultimately devolved into yelling back and forth between residents, with racial slurs being liberally thrown by some of the punks (anti-white, anti-Italian, anti-Greek, anti-Irish and such) with other coments thrown back at them (I got a chuckle out of one 80+ year-old black woman from down the street threatening to "tan your n***er hides").

In all honesty the crime or violence problem has really only come about in the last 10 or 12 years - but the reasons behind it aren't too clear... the economy of the area is no wosre off (maybe a little better), no real population shift (other than 100 more homes and a retirement complex), an increase in school attendance/graduation rates, increased church attendance, lower un-employment... all confusing - even the cops are having trouble narrowing down the causes, as the statistics show a marked increase in violent crime amongst those who identify themselves as black, between the ages of 15-25, and of a middle class background - but not in other ethnic, economic, age groups; the only other correlation is that the white, middleclass 15-25 group has shown a slightly steady level of crime - which is in and of itself hard to explain as well. Because in fact overall, crime rates having been steadily dropping, except now violent crimes have increased in percentange and frequency, seemingly without being attached to other criminal activities... last time I checked of those arrested for violent crimes around 85% were first time offenders (well other than traffic tickets).

Wow, you're mother must be proud.

To answer your question, she is.


http://www.greatmanjohn.com/forum/im...es/boobies.gif

Neighbor Hood Watch Group it they have things like that in Canada. Raise Hell with Local Police.

If this is going on, it is BULLSHIT!

Almost being shot is easy.

Being Shot isnt, been there and it wasnt fun.!:(

Take back the area or get the hell out.:)

Oh my god Rob, you were on that Jane bus???!!!!

Seriously, what part of Toronto do you live in, and remind me not to go there.

I live in the "wild west" of Weston (Jane and Larwence)

only in miami, my frien!

RA Cooper I know how you feel. Over the past few years, violence in Vancouver has escalated to a very scary point. And, unfortunately, most of the times it is caused by [sometimes illegal] immigrants. I think the worst weapon we have in Vancouver is street racing: innocent people get killed and the offenders get house arrest wtf? I was very happy to hear yesterday though, that a street racer was deported back to his home country. We don't need people like that in Canada. But this is not to say that Canadians are all good: my god look at the news lately between Karla Holmolka and Willie Pickton...

"I'm Tony Montana! Joo f*ck wit' me, joo f*ckin' wit' de best!"

"Manolo! 'Choot dat piece o'chit!"

"All I have is my balls and my word... and I don' break 'em for nobody, understand!"

:D

Sarcasm on.

How can you have increasing gun related violence in Canada? You have enacted a firearms registry and sweeping gun control laws in the last few years. Carrying guns and shooting people is illegal in Canada. It can't happen. You passed laws against it.

Sarcasm off.

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

Thank you Charlton Heston.

What Canada needs is something like the 'Texas Exile' program... get caught using a gun committing a crime, you do hard time - no probation, no parole.

No, that will never work. We must spend billions and billions of dollars on a program that will never break even and never work and keep telling parliment and the Canadian people what a great program it is.
/sarcasm


I just finished reading the Auditor Generals report on the Canadian Firearms program and it is the biggest fiscal and procedural joke ever.
I think that "Texas exile" program sounds like a good idea.

Thank-you Charlton Heston & the NRA...

I see a marked difference between an illegal firearm and an illegal owned firearm.

In all the cases of shootings around me they have obviously been perpetrated by people illegally in possession of firearms - and more importantly in all cases with illegal firearms.

Basically at the most simplistic level, in Canada legal privately owned firearms are those that can be used for hunting (rifles & shotguns - no more than a 5 or 10 round capacity depending on firearm)... so handguns, SMGs, and assault & battle rifles are illegal - illegal to own, transport, sell, or manufacture. Of course there ar many exceptions to this... good site covering it is:
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/.../rc4227-e.html

The major problem is American influence - whether it be simply cultural or more insidiously supply. Culturally speaking American influence on the matter can be seen with the number of gun owners that believe they have "the right to bear arms" (nope it'd be a privilage) - or through the political and financial support for those in Canada opposed to either the gun registry or the imposing of limits on ownership... in this case Charlton Heston and the NRA have dropped considerable cash fighting gun control in Canada; under the assumption that if gun control is successful in Canada it'll set a "bad" precedent/example that gun control lobbyists in the US could use.

I personally have no problem with people owning hunting rifles or shotguns, or with people collecting - in fact I own some now (second model Brown Bess blackpowder musket ; a Queen Anne flintlock pistol, and a Winchester Model 70 "stealth" .308). However I went through all that trouble of registering them (paperwork and training) and I do not store them at home, but at an "armoury" were I check them out when and if I need them - don't see the point or risk of keeping them at home in the city.

> (I got a chuckle out of one 80+ year-old black woman from down the street threatening to "tan your n***er hides").

I love that. Have you seen the movie Ladykillers with Tom Hanks? Spent much time in the south and knew God fearing, strong willed, Christian, older black women who were much like that character. Sounds like there is at least one in Canada as well.

> The major problem is American influence -

I think that he influence may be Jamaican Posse gangs as has happened in the UK. Unless you think that Canadians are somehow more susceptible to absorbing some aspects of American culture than other countries. I would want to know details of the backgrounds of the perps on this before drawing any conclusions regarding U.S. cultural influences.

> whether it be simply cultural or more insidiously supply.

So Canadas gun problem is because guns are legal in the U.S.? You sound like the people who try to claim that the high gun homicide rate in Chicago is because of loose gun laws in Indiana or the high gun homicide rate in D.C. is due to loose gun laws in Virginia. My question has always been then why aren't the gun homicide rates in Indiana and Virginia higher than in Chicago and Washington, D.C.? It isn't the guns, it is the violent tendencies of some people.

> the number of gun owners that believe they have "the right to bear arms" (nope it'd be a privilage)

They do have the right to bear arms. Everyone does. As they do the right to free speech, freedom of religion, a free press, freedom from unlawful search and seizure as well as the other rights enumerated in the U.S. Constitution. All person have those rights. Just because someone lives in China doesn't mean that we don't think that they don't have a right to free speech. They do. It is unfortunate that many governments have chosen to deny their people those rights guaranteed to us. A right is something that you are born with and are free to exercise if you can exercise the right responsibly and it can only be taken away by irresponsible action. That is why children are frequently denied rights such as gun ownership and even free speech and is why convicted felons are denied gun ownership and the right to vote. A privledge is something that must be earned, a drivers license for example.

> Canada opposed to either the gun registry

I don't understand what the gun registry does to prevent crime. It has cost a BILLION dollars and I don't understand how it prevents crime. It only tracks the guns that law abiding citizens have chosen to register. Criminals ignored the law. The only purpose that I can see it serving is that when the time comes to ban a certain type of firearm then the govt will know who has the legal ones.

> in this case Charlton Heston and the NRA

Heston was President of the NRA from 2001-2003. Since then he has held a lifetime position as a member of the executive council. I am sure the money spent was partially from many of the Canadian members of the NRA. They want to help the U.S. so we can help them.

> I do not store them at home, but at an "armoury" were I check them out when and if I need them -

That would be horribly inconvenient. I just had three friends come up from Texas for a vist. My 'armoury' is in a closet and we were able to handle some of my firearms right there. There was not time to go drive somewhere to handle something that I own. Besides, I have only 'needed' my guns twice. I have them because I want them.

> don't see the point or risk of keeping them at home in the city

Considering the incidents that you mentioned in your neighborhood I think that I would see a point in keeping at least one of them at home.

She's an interesting character to say the least - not really the southern style, more of an old British Empire rah, rah type... also very well educated (has a MA Anthropology from UofT).

Quote:

> The major problem is American influence - I think that he influence may be Jamaican Posse gangs as has happened in the UK. Unless you think that Canadians are somehow more susceptible to absorbing some aspects of American culture than other countries. I would want to know details of the backgrounds of the perps on this before drawing any conclusions regarding U.S. cultural influences.

I cited US influence simply because it's pretty mcuh invasive up here - news, media, music, movies, books, magazines you name it... as for the Jamacian Posse (or Yardies) they where a bit of a problem in the 80s but died down after a serious police crackdown. 'Perp'-wise of the those involved only two have been 'immigrants': they shooter at the subway station had what sounded like Dominican accent, and the 14 year-old with the AK was from Rwanda.. all the others have been native black, white, hispanic Canadians (at least as far as I know).

Quote:

> whether it be simply cultural or more insidiously supply. So Canadas gun problem is because guns are legal in the U.S.? You sound like the people who try to claim that the high gun homicide rate in Chicago is because of loose gun laws in Indiana or the high gun homicide rate in D.C. is due to loose gun laws in Virginia. My question has always been then why aren't the gun homicide rates in Indiana and Virginia higher than in Chicago and Washington, D.C.? It isn't the guns, it is the violent tendencies of some people.

It's more about the types of guns being used in the crimes and shootings - a definite increase in the quantity of illegal firearms... rifles and shotguns ain't the issue - after all we do have a fair number of firearms up here about 1/3 of the per captia ownership of the US... now that there are firearms more convient to crime (concealable and such) it seems there are more shootings.

Again it's the difference in firearm laws between Canada and the US - none of the weapons used are legal here (for civilians) and all have come from the US (that have been recovered). The gun trafficing has really taken off in the last couple of years as a result of the increased drug trade - pot from organized crime shipped south, guns shipped north; guns then sold, outsourced, or rented out.




Sorry - no they don't have the right to bear arms... it's not in the Charter of Rights & Freedoms as a 'right' but rather a privilage granted by the government/crown - something I am in absolute agreement with... to many wackos and idiots out there that should not have access to firearms. Like you said a privilage is something that must be earned, and the ownership of a firearm fits totally into that equation = you must earn it through background checks, training, registry, and just like a driver's licence renewal every 5 years...

Besides comparing gun ownership to free speach is frankly pointless - as well as insisting that the US is the ideal of freedoms and rights - a paragon yes, but not the ideal, there are many different approaches that create equally free societies without arming the populace.

Quote:

> Canada opposed to either the gun registry I don't understand what the gun registry does to prevent crime. It has cost a BILLION dollars and I don't understand how it prevents crime. It only tracks the guns that law abiding citizens have chosen to register. Criminals ignored the law. The only purpose that I can see it serving is that when the time comes to ban a certain type of firearm then the govt will know who has the legal ones.

Lets see it creates as federal tracking system of all registered firearms - allowing automatic access by law enforcement agencies to the record of ownership and use - to me that's just common sense. If a gun is stolen it can be more readily trackes... or if someone commits a violent crime you can easily look at his record and revoke his ownership; to me another great trait when looking at domestic violence.

As for "chosen" to register - it's not a choice anymore, it's legally required... so yes the government can track all legal firearms - which means they can track the majority of firearms... and soon the sale of ammunition - which should raise some warnings if person A buys ammo of the wrong calibre (you'll have to have show your licence).

All of this would work better if: a- there wasn't such resistance from the gun lobby; b- there wasn't such resistance from the gun nut fringe (such as the tool that killed the RCMP officers recently); c- if the supply of illegal firearms was strangled; d- if the provinces co-operated with the federal government on the matter; e- if the federal government could get it's act together organizationally.

Finally for the government declaring certain firearms illegal or prohibited - fine... it's all open to debate and reform, and so far their reasoning hasn't bothered me... there is no purpose what so ever for Joe Blow to own an assault rifle or SMG... or really even a handgun.

Quote:

> in this case Charlton Heston and the NRA Heston was President of the NRA from 2001-2003. Since then he has held a lifetime position as a member of the executive council. I am sure the money spent was partially from many of the Canadian members of the NRA. They want to help the U.S. so we can help them.

Well lets just say that the Conservative party, or more specifically the NFA boys out in Alberta have recieved substantial "grants" from the NRA (we don't have the NRA up here - at least officially/legally)... grants that have been used to air commericials produced in the US by the NRA or to lobby provincial politicans.

Quote:

> I do not store them at home, but at an "armoury" were I check them out when and if I need them - That would be horribly inconvenient. I just had three friends come up from Texas for a vist. My 'armoury' is in a closet and we were able to handle some of my firearms right there. There was not time to go drive somewhere to handle something that I own. Besides, I have only 'needed' my guns twice. I have them because I want them.

1- some times inconvience could be a good thing, particularlly for anyone with a temper.
2- I don't see myself "defending" my home with a flintlock.
3- I would never want to store firearms around children (too curious) or people not properly trained.
4- I don't want them stored at home for insurance reasons.
5- The armoury is alot harder to rob than my home, thus reducing the possibility of the firearms entering the illegal market.
6- I use them for hunting or weapon displays, things I know about well in advance; immediancy just isn't an issue.

Quote:

> don't see the point or risk of keeping them at home in the city Considering the incidents that you mentioned in your neighborhood I think that I would see a point in keeping at least one of them at home.

Again I don't exactly see myself using the flintlock to "defend" my home from the proverbial "invader".... besides all the shootings have been outside of my home and immediate 2 block area. Finally the number of people killed each year in Canada by their own firearms is very sobering - in fact the greatest rate of gun related fatalities is in the one area in Canada were gun laws are very lax indeed.

For interest's sake I decided to look at a week's worth of crime - as reported by the two police divisions that cover my neighbourhood:

So from the period of June 3rd to June 9th the following crimes occured:
- Young Offender arrested (Assault with a Weapon, Weapon Dangerous to the Public Peace, Aggravated Assault, Discharge Air Gun/Pistol Intent to Wound, Criminal Negligence Causing Bodily Harm, Carry Concealed Weapon.)
* Robbery (Purse Snatch)
- Robbery (Vehicle Jacking) handgun involved
- Break & Enter (Business)
- Robbery (Mugging)
* Robbery (Swarming) same location as the bus shooting
- Robbery (Swarming)
* Robbery (Business) handgun invovled
* Robbery (Swarming) at my old highschool, a few blocks away

* the ones that are relatively close in distance (5-10 minute walk) or on my biking route

So, Let BatCoop be Released!

Yepper I look at weekly Report and Get Daily Updates from Bookum, My Best Bud.:(

As DD a Crazy Ex Copper says, Hell just Kill them, Let God Sort them Out!

I used to think He was wrong, but think about it!:D

No Prisons!:rolleyes: