Star Wars III: Discussion "spoiler" thread
 

So because the movie has come out I only thought it appropriate to start a thread where we can discuss the movie and not have to "ruin" it for people who haven't seen it yet.







I shall start....



I was crying and at times yelling (quietly I might add) at the screen. They made Anakin's fall incredibly believeable and you just wanted to say "noooooo" even though you knew he was going to turn. It literally broke my heart. I bawled my eyes out when the Jedi where being killed. It was so sad and so dark and you just wanted to kill Palpatine. You wanted to smack him for lying to Anakin and you wanted to yell at Anakin for believing him. Seriously, if you cry at movies, you will not walk out without tears running down your face. Even as Vadar, his words and pain hurt your heart.

Don't buy the soundtrack cause it will make you cry even more (God Bless John Williams). (I'm actually listening right now and crying)

I was mad though that James Earl Jones wasn't credited for Vadar's voice even though we all know it was him.

I was also pissed at the fact that Padme did in fact die because that completely negates the 10 minute scene in episode VI when Luke and Leia are talking and Leia states that she "remembers" her real mother as being "beautiful, kind but sad". Obviously, someone somewhere screwed up because by killing Padme it is completely impossible for Leia to have ANY memories about her REAL mother. GRRRRRR!!!!!! I have when continuity gets ruined.

I'll post my thoughts later but I have to get to bed. But for the meantime, this is the funniest picture I have ever seen:

http://www.nightly.net/rock/misc/dooku_owned.jpg

is Chewbaca the last wookie alive?

Now, that's a great pic!

Seriously, it's been a few hours now and I'm still digesting it. The biggest question I've got still is:

How on earth did Palpatine/Sidious (sp) "convince" Anakin to go to the dark side so darned quickly? I didn't expect it quite so fast, ya know? Was it some kind of Sith Mind Trick or something? Bad, naughty Dark Side.


More observations:

Use the force for good, Yoda does. Love Yoda, I do.

I had a tiny flicker of joy when Vader's first words were about Padme. Then--POOF--no question, Anakin was gone, no turning back, no tiny flicker of anything left.

The worst part was realizing that Anakin/Vader was going to kill, and then had killed the younglings. That just about broke my heart. There's no going back after that point.

WHAT WAS WITH THE QUI-GON MENTION AT THE END??? I was so overwhelmed at that point I didn't quite catch what Yoda said, other than Obi-Wan was delivering Luke and staying on Tatooine to train more...with Qui-Gon? Someone explain before I go looney ;)

Finally, I think I only saw Jar Jar twice (very beginning and very end), and both times I believe he was silent.

Well I am sure that I will be seeing it again during this weekend...YAY I'm in SF.

My thoughts about the whole Qui-Gon thing.....do you recall how Obi Wan, Yoda and Anakin (old) appeared at the end of ROTJ? I think that is was Yoda was referring too...communing from the other side using the force. That is how Obi-Wan got to speak with Luke in Empire and Jedi.

Yea, I had some tears, especially in the Temple and the youngling said "Master Skywalker, is everything is alright?" or something to that effect and then he gasped, that broke my heart.

Me and my best friend and the guys sitting behind us were saying, NO, please stop, NO.

Ian McDirmand DESERVES and oscar nod, he did such a great job and he made me HATE him.

I don't think Anakin turned too quickly, Palpatine has been in his ear for years, then the insult with not being granted the title of Master as he got to sit on the council, Padme dreams.

What the council feared and knew about Anakin is that he used his emotion to become stronger, there was nothing they could do to break him of that. Remember the council did not want Anakin and were "forced" to except him b/c of Qui-Gon's dying wish, he was not trained as a traditional Jedi, Obi-wan taught him eveything, he did not have any "formal" training...by that I mean, training in the temple.

I have really no complaints and 2 nitpicks and only 1 that I can recall right now, again the Leia thing at the end, but oh well.

I was upset that they didn't use Chewy more, but that is ok I guess.

My friend explained the reason that they wiped 3PO is b/c he can't keep him mouth shut, I guess that is plausible.

Didn't ya'll just love R2-D2? wasn't he just great? oh the other nitpick...Obi-Wan of the OT did not remember the droids or he choose not to say anything. And now we know why R2 is just so devoted to Luke in the OT, b/c he made the comment that he has never seen such devotion in a droid.

That is really all I can come up with right now, I have more thoughts but I want to see ROTS again before I post more, which most likely will be tomorrow.

gwyn

Ditto on the Oscar nod for McDirmid.

I believe that Obi-Wan chose not to say anything.

Maybe Leia got feelings for her adopted mother confused with the nature of Luke's question.

Does anyone remember the look ( in Ep. 4 ) that Uncle Owen gave Aunt Beru when Luke starts talking about his father? That scene was film over 30 years ago and Lucas thought then to put that in.

I just LOVED this movie.

Lucas dotted his "i" and crossed his "t" with the funeral scene of Padme still having the"pregnancy bump", just in case DV came back to find her.

Did anyone catch the nod to "Frankenstein" type films with the way Vader came off the table?

The youngling scene was rough...that's true evil. Also was sad to see the jedi die.

I was kind of "eh" that Chewbacca was in the film at all...he was supposed to be a wookie exile. I think they did that to make people happy.

As for the mother comment, maybe she thought Organa's wife was her real mom? She was sad because she couldn't have kids of her own, and knew that maybe if the empire found out it would be all over? It's a stretch, but a plausible one I think.

Cool to see how the emperor came to look like he does in the later movies, but man Mace went out like a b*tch. I thought he was more badass than that.

I have to see it again...take it all in again, and again, and again. So good.

I *LOVED* that touch.

Saw the movie last night.

I LOVED IT!!! Especially Yoda! I love Yoda!

I was really impressed. I thought Lucas tied up all the loose ends very nicely. I have to go an watch the original trilogy now.

I hope this DVD/box set of all 6 movies comes out in time for Christmas.

And knowing George... he'll probably add some extra scenes that were cut out for the theatrical release that might help with the continuity, especially if he comes out with a massive seven or eight-disc "Star Wars Saga" - you'll need at least two discs to fill all the supplemental material the fanatics demand!

Leia's comment in ROTJ was that what she remembered were "images, feelings really". As a Force-sensitive infant, she may have picked up on that at her birth and retained it.

I thought McDiarmid was a bit over the top. He was good but then when he came Sidious he became a complete psychopath. I think that was done for contrast more than anything else. The way he was speaking to Anakin right before he pronounces him Vader was just ridiculous, but I blame that on the effects, and not on McDiarmid. He did do an absolutely excellent job though. A true villan.

The person who I think deserves the biggest nod is Ewan McGregor. I was in tears when he was screaming, "You were like my brother! I loved you!" He did a great job with the dry humor and then contrasting to the emotion that he showed for Anakin. Obi-wan has become one of my favorite characters, all because of the amazing job McGregor did with him.

After watching the film, I really pity Anakin. I really think he was just so in love with Padme that he thought he was doing the right thing and Palpatine got him hook line and sinker with false promises. However, there are two things that I can't forgive him for: the Younglings, and attacking Padme. I think he touched the Dark Side just intending to use it to try and save Padme, and it ended up consuming him. But I still can't forgive him.

This movie was just so heartbreaking. I was so proud of him at first for turning in Palpatine, but we all know what had to happen. I don't even think he intended for Mace Windu to die... I think he thought Mace was violating the Jedi code and that he really just wanted Palpatine alive long enough to find out the secret to saving Padme, and then to hell with him. I guess that's what I mean by pitying him. A few stupid mistakes and next thing you know, you've destroyed everything you stood for and loved. Glad I don't have that kind of power.

I really appreciated the pregnancy bump. I saw the movie yesterday with a guy friend of mine and he was like "what"? So, I got to feel smart explaining it.

This episode really broke my heart too. There were three points when I was bawling (younglings/killing of the Jedi, Obi-Wan last words to Anakin/Vader, the final scenes with the babies - but that was more because I knew what would happen in the next episodes and then my mind went to my brother and dad who are Star Wars freaks and made me miss them.)

As far as Chewbacca - I don't know why I know this (was it in one of the episodes?) but his family was killed during a big war. I think that was the war in question and after that, he became a renegade of sorts. Then he hooked up with Han Solo and the rest is history. It was great to see how everyone was so interconnected.

Now, I know the Jedi didn't know what was coming but why did so many of them go out so soft? Anakin took a bunch out like they were nothing. It was really weird.

Oh, yeah, another part that got me crying was when Yoda dropped his walking staff, stumbled and grabbed his chest when the other Jedi were being killed. I was also really not happy when he was being thrown around the room like a ragdoll. I wanted to pick him up and carry him out of there!!

At the end, I REALLY wanted to go watch the next three in a row to see all the new pieces that would make more sense to me.

Maybe it's just me, but now knowing how it all happened makes me appreciate it that much more and look at the older ones with a different eye. Wow..just amazing. I know so many self-professed die-hard SW fans are ripping the film, but I really loved it.

Astro I agree with the Ewan MacGregor comment, he must have really studied the old films because he even had the Alec Guinness mannerisms down pat.

What's parts of this movie do you think should be ripped from this film?

I claim to be a die-hard SW fan...granted not as much as the person in the next bed over....I see nothing wrong with this film...I think it did tied a lot of loose ends and explained some of the stuff of the first two PT (and the acting was WAY better). And there was some great transitions for the OT, which we will most likely watch tonight.

As for the Leia comment, here could be another explaination (because this is really the one weak point that I find in this film), Bail and Padme were close so being a force sensative child, Leia picked up the feelings from Bail, because we do know that Leia was speaking about Padme and not Bail's wife.

Ok gotta run, seeing it again and eating.

Marin Country is beautiful.....I'm also off to see skywalker ranch, saw the new facility for ILM and co at the Persido.

ciao
gwyn

Saw it again for the second time last night and might head out again tonight to see it for the third time. I only saw Ep.1 and 2 only once in theaters. Before it is over with, I might beat my record of seeing ep. 1 ( counting theater showings of course ) of over 20 times.

This film is really bringing out the memories in me from when I saw Ep. 4 in 1977, ep. 5 in 1980, and ep. 6 in 1983. Lucas' original trilogy is a part of my going up and it is kind of bittersweet that the series is now ending with this last chapter.

Interesting.....in ep. 4, Beru says to Owen...."He's not much of a farmer; he has too much of his father in him". Owen replies, " That is what I am afraid of.".

Obi-Wan must have told Owen and Beru Luke's heritage and the circumstances of the adoption.

Anybody else find the romantic scenes very bland? I loved the flix man. Yoda got major applause every time he showed up. Especially when he took out the imperial guards. When the Jedi was being struck down one by one, that was great. John William did a great job in adding to emotion with his scores.

The romantic scenes were definitely the weak links in the movie. The two of them together have the chemistry of a dead fish (Christensen) and a paper bag (Portman). Of course, I thought the same thing about Ep. 2. I do think Natalie Portman can actually act, but she doesn't do much for me as Padme.

While I'm at it, did anyone believe that Anakin really was happy that Padme was pregnant? At first he seemed angry, and even after he said he was happy I didn't buy it. Sure, we know Jedis aren't supposed to do that, but still.

I just read a review over at slate http://slate.msn.com/id/2119061/ and it posed a darned good question--why didn't the Jedi Council realize that Palpatine was the big bad? Or, did they know? We know Yoda sensed everything that was happening to Anakin as he moved to the dark side. Guess I'll have to go see it again :D

ZetaPhi--I didn't realize you were old enough to have seen the original trilogy in theaters?

I was also wondering the same thing. Why didn't any of the Jedi was able to sense the dark side when they were near Palpaltine. My guess is that Palpaltine has the ability to shield the dark side from the Jedi.

ETA: One thing that bothered me was how quick Anakin switch over to the dark side. Also, the naming thing kinda annoyed me.

I've never been a huge Star Wars fan. Hell, I only remember small bits and pieces from episodes I and II, and barely anything at all about IV, V, and VI. I had to ask Mr. SSS last night to remind me what happened at the VERY end.

That said, I really enjoyed this movie when I went to see it last night. I didn't cry or anything (probably because of my aforementioned lack of emotional attachment) but I was sad when Anakin killed the younglings, and when Padme died. I was also wanting to yell, "Don't do it!" when Anakin started to turn to the Dark Side, and I wanted to bitch-slap Palpatine. It was sad how he tricked him, and how the biggest reason Anakin turned was because he thought that he would be able to save Padme that way... and it's really only because he turned that she died.

Now I understand why Darth Vader wears that getup though. :p

And lastly... I heart Yoda :D

Yep i saw the originals when I was 10, 13 and 16 years of age. I am only 37yo now. LOL

Did anyone else feel that there was too much packed into Episode III? I felt like the material in the three prequels was unevenly distributed. For me, Episode II was a snoozefest...couldn't Lucus have found a way to put some of this film's info into film 2?

The killing of the younglings made me want to scream. I was clutching my fiance while wiping away tears especially when Obi-Wan & Yoda returned to the temple to find their bodies strewn around the floor. *tears*

In case anyone missed it, I loved the final scene w/Owen & Beru holding baby Luke & looking out at the horizon. That's the same montage we saw in Episode IV when Luke is staring out at it too. It's virtually the same w/only the person in the scene different.

It was gratifying to see Bail Organa more in this movie b/c it really ties up the movies & how Leia ended up w/him while Luke when w/his aunt & uncle.

How on earth does Padme sleep w/that chain mail blue thing on? It had some weird strappy chain things on it. Painful.

The poor younglings. I can't get over this.

As for the wookies, their role in the movie was bigger but George Lucas cut most of their scenes out. My guess is that we'll get to see them all in the extended edition DVD.

FYI, that is one evil Emperor. I liked how he lied to DV about how Padme really died. Fucker.

Speaking of Palpatine...

So I was watching Ep. 2 yesterday and I thought of something...

You know how in ep 2 they (the seperatists) are trying to kill Padme. Well we all know that Palpatine is the bad guy (duh) and I got to thinking maybe he did it on purpose. Maybe he knew that Anakin had developed these feelings for Padme (whether he figured it out on his own or Anakin told him) and he pushed them together on purpose. I say this because in 3, Palpatine totally played off their marriage and her pregnancy and Anakins love for her. That was his (Anakin's) undoing and Palpatine knew that he could use it. He totally played on his fear of her dying during childbirth. That is in essence the reason he turned evil, he believed that Palpatine could teach him the dark side of the force that would allow Padme to live.

And did anyone else find it heartbreaking that even once he turned into Vadar (and I'm talking suit, helmet the whole shabang) he was still concerned about Padme.

My brother thinks that when Palpatine told him that he killed Padme by turning "evil" that is what sent him over the edge. Which makes sense because up until then, yes he had done truly hideous things but for me I just felt so bad for him because he was being manipulated by Palpatine and he was doing it all to save his wife. Then he comes to find out that he couldn't save her in the first place because he went evil. Huge Blow!!! The anger probably just took over which allowed him to "turn evil".

I'm not sure if I'm making any sense at all. :)



I also got to thinking about Anakin's lightsaber. How Obi-Wan gives it to Luke. My brother says that when Anakin had lost his legs before he started burning Obi-Wan bent down and picked up his lightsaber and took it. I don't recall this happening (probably because I was bawling my eyes out at the time), but did he in fact do this? If he did, woo hoo explains how Luke got it. If he didn't, how did Obi-Wan get it to give to Luke in the first place?

I also got to thinking about Leia and Padme (and this might have been mentioned), but since Leia was taken as an infant to Alderaan (spelling issues) she probably never knew she was adopted. Yes, she sensed things in 4-6 but she really couldn't ask anyone if it were true or not. So in 6 when Luke asks about her "real" mother she is probably speaking of Queen Organa because that is the only mother she knew. And as for her being sad, maybe it was because she knew that if anyone (ie. Anakin or Palpatine) found out about Leia that she would probably be taken from them. Who knows just my thoughts on the matter.

Obi-Wan did in fact pick the lightsaber & keep it when Annakin was starting to burn.

What I'm curious about is how on earth did Leia get the title of Princess? Bail Organa was a Senator not King. Where did that title come from?

In the end credits, it lists the actress as playing Queen Organa.

Wouldn't they be king and queen on their home planet but part of the senate as well. So, two titles, right?

Bail Organa is royality, the reason he is the senator of Alderaan is because he comes from the Royal House of Organa of Alderaan, therefore Leia automatically becomes a princess.

As for the dark side, they have clearly stated in Ep 1 & 2, that when it comes to the dark side, "clouded".

I don't think it took long to turn Anakin, remember Palpatine has been in Anakin's ear since E II....a few years (during the clone wars) and now this.

He may have been keeping an eye on Anakin and the entire plot of the kidnapping was staged, but I really don't think he was planning on coming after Anakin so soon until Dooku opened is big mouth and everything was accelerated. Did you see the look of complete surprise by Dooku, ok he had no clue about the dying, but still......

Another question, it was mentioned in the movie and "only 1 person had cheated death" I'm really wondering if they are referring to Qui-Gon and he communicated with Dooku, once Qui-Gon figured that Dooku went to the dark side (but who was the Sith leader), Qui-Gon appeared to Yoda.

I need to explore that a little more, for those of you that I've just confused with that statement

Master - Padawan
Yoda - Count Dooku
Count Dooku - Qui-Gon
Qui-Gon - Obi-Wan
Obi-Wan - Anakin

Dooku mentioned in Ep II that he wanted to lure Qui-Gon to the dark side, but Obi-Wan said that his master would never do something like that.....THAT leads me to believe that that Dooku had other plans for his master....but that is another story that will never happen.

I have another thought....I really want to know who Sidious's Master was? Master Sifadious?...the guy who order the clones? It has been implied throughout the PT.


Also remember Anakin was struggling up to the point of the fight between Windu and Sidious. I think the last straw for Anakin (and Bad Jedi Council), no one trusted him, Windu understood the confusion going in Anakin, that is why he mention it, but he made the mistake of saying that he didn't trust him, (which I'm sure Anakin sensed himself). Anakin was attempting to make up for his mistake with killing Dooku by not bringing him in front to the council and wanted that with Palpatine (and also the secrets), but it was the trust issue and the years (most likely) of the Council NOT listening to Anakin, but telling him what to do, Palpatine was the only person (not even Padme) listened to him.


I told you that I was THAT much of a SW geek

Perhaps Palpatine just knew how to play with his weaknesses. Anakin lost his mother and now there was a possibility that he would lose Padme. Maybe he had some sort of "maternal issue" (ok... so it's a little too Freud) and now he wanted to save Padme by any means possible. Or the fact that he was sick of everyone he loved dying.

Though, the scene where he just bows down to Palpatine seemed a little quick too. But as someone mentioned earlier, Palpatine probably had him marked.

I didn't cry. I don't normally cry at movies anyway. But the burning scene has been stuck in my head for the past few days. That and the scene where they put the mask on him. He just looked terrified.

Small nitpick... anyone in the medical field? When Anakin was getting "fixed" he started screaming/moaning in pain/etc. My question is that with burns that extensive, aren't the nerves usually shot to all hell? I just remember an episode of CSI where a victim became a giant fireball and had 3rd degree burns over 80% of her body. Drs said she wouldn't feel pain because her nerves were basically dulled. So I'm just wondering what would have made Anakin feel pain.

But yeah... LOVED the film. And I want the soundtrack. For those that have it, is the song where Padme and Anakin are on opposite sides of the city and kind of looking out of the windows of their respective buildings on the CD? I loved that song.

The bigger question is HOW WAS HE EVEN ALIVE??? :) I think he was just so tied into the force that he had an abnormal ability to sustain life and health. So, I can see how he would still be feeling pain.

You're a baby, then :D

True... gotta factor in the "Force." But I wondered that about the CSI victim I saw...

About Oscar nods... McGregegar may get/should get SOME sort of nod. That guy is EVERYWHERE! They even showed a preview for ANOTHER movie he's in later this summer. And just think this is the same dude from Trainspotting!

Something that really bothered me... who the HELL is Siphadias? All I know is he ordered the clones and he was a Jedi that died 10 years ago. Was there a backstory that I missed and why was he never mentioned again? Is that all we needed to know? I was hoping that he would be mentioned in this movie... or hell, even show up. But nope!

I personally think Sifa Dyous (sp) is Darth Plagueis, Darth Sidious' mentor. But that is one girl's opinion, I will be reading the SW books now to get more background, there are books out there right now that are a part of the Sith Era....I believe the books go something like this:

Sith Era
Prequel Trilogy
Original Trilogy
New Jedi Order (?)
New Republic

something like that I don't have my bookcover so I can't really say.

I hope to find out my answer in the EU (expanded universe) of SW

There's 2 theories on Syfo-Dias:

1. He was really Count Dooku using an existing Jedi Master's name. Remember, he was the one that recruited Jango Fett.
2. He was being manipulated by Sidious and/or Dooku and they killed him when they no longer had any use for him.

ms_gwyn, Palpatine has been after Anakin all this time. He used Count Dooku to start Anakin on his path. Dooku realizes this at the end, because he was supposed to be taken alive, but he also wasn't planning on Anakin kicking his ass and Palpatine telling him to kill him.

As for Anakin handling the pregnancy, I think he's more shocked as hell. Padme being pregnant means that they can't hide things for much longer. According to the book he really wants to leave the Jedi order, but I thought it came off in the movie as he wasn't quite ready to give it up. I mean, come on, you've been gone for 5 months and you find out your wife is pregnant? Talk about out of left field.

There were a few painful moments in the romance scenes ("Has love made you blind?"), but some of them were tons better. Padme confronting Anakin about what he's done is very emotional and very powerful. I'll agree though that they don't have the best on-screen chemistry. (But then again, I've always said that they should have ditched Portman and gone with Keira Knightley... Portman has had a bad attitude about the movies after the first one.)

That is a compliment that I can deal with. Thank you so much!!!!

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Yea I figured that out, I am reading the book right now, I wanted to wait until I saw the movie.....this is a really good novelization....and Dooku was surprised by Palpatine wanting him dead.

Heh.....gotta love evil people, they change up the plans all the time ;)

damn, anakin got messed up by obi wan.

Can someone tell me what Padme's dying words were? I heard her name the babies and then she said something else, but neither me nor my husband can figure out what it was.

Something to the effect of:

I know there is still good in him....

Luke said the same thing

My theory is that Anakin and Padme are just so connected (I'm still reading the book, we'll see if my theory pans out) that Padme experienced Anakin's pain of the transformation, in addition to childbirth and turmoil of their confrontation, that it was too much for her, that she just "let go". Remember there was nothing medically wrong with her.

I thought she said something like "There's still hope" - maybe my mind was playing tricks on me because I was looking for a connection to the next episode.

Also, I was thinking that she died of heartbreak. She was a very willful woman so maybe she just gave up. But, I can totally get along with the idea that she and Anakin were connected to that extent.