Tradition of fraternities hosting parties can leave sororities in the clear
 

Tradition of fraternities hosting parties can leave sororities in the clear
By JENNA JOHNSON / Daily Nebraskan
April 18, 2005

And this is why male female relations on college campuses are getting worse, not better.

I think that it makes sense to look at the bigger picture and not just place blame on Fraternities b/c "girls don't traditionally pay for alcohol".

Both Fraternities and Sororities have some members who participate in risky underage drinking. And contrary to what sorority officers are told to say, there ARE pressures on Fraternities to provide these functions and even pressures from older sorority girls on younger sorority members to attend the parties. "XYZ Fraternity has the best afterhours/primers make sure you go that party, or ABC Fraternity never throws primers or afterhours, we're not going with them...ect."
You can look at the houses who are "popular" with sororities and see that they take the most risks when it comes to this issue. (at least at Nebraska you can)

Sorority girls leave one fraternity party when the alcohol runs out to go to another who still has free booze for them to drink...you can't tell me that doesn't constitute a pressure for fraternties to maintain a good social reputation through providing an outlet for sorority girls to drink.

Fraternities and Sororities should be held to the same rules, standards, and regulations. We are the same legal entities (non-for profit corporations) under the same laws, we are at the same host institutions with the same codes of conduct, we have the same insurance...we are the same basic organizations...so why is the treatment different when we are guilty of the same violations?

Fraternities are expected to take the fall for the INDIVIDUAL DECISION of its members to throw a party at their OWN HOUSE (these parties happen off campus) and for any members who make THEIR OWN DECISION to go and possibly drink whether under age or legally. (Fraternities, at least houses @ UNL, do not fund, sanction, or officialy sponsor any of these questionable activities. They have nothing to do with the social programming of the house. They are the actions of individuals makeing their own decisions)

And sororites should be held to the same standard and should be responsible for their member's INDIVIDUAL DECISION to go to the party, and THEIR OWN DECISION to drink under age or legally. If something goes wrong their charters should be on the chopping block as well.

Play Fair...that's all I ask.
Both break the rules, both pay the price. If you want to curb this kind of activity then apply the solutions across the board, not just to fraternities. Once sororities start feeling the pain of the risks their members are taking I guarantee that the girls' drive to go to these type of activities and the ability for sorority officers to "look the other way" will die off. And when the girls aren't showing up...the drive to host these illegal parties will die off as well.

Total solutions, not partial patches.

Keep records of all guests at a party and their affiliation.

If your fraternity takes all the blame for a party that goes bust (and isn't an all campus party) make sure to spread the blame among the sororities by making sure every time your name is mentioned, written, or spoken of that their name is right up there.

-Rudey
--Misery loves company

Rudey,

I would reccomend that to every house for its legitimate social activities. Keeping a list is a great way to manage liability.

But in this case what gets houses (at least Nebraska houses) in trouble is not the registered, third party vendor, social function...but rather small parties before and after the legitimate function known as "primers" and afterhours. This is where the minors end up drinking. These parties are off campus, at someone's individual house, or apartment, are not set up by the greek houses but set up by individuals who live there and invite other's over. This is what the article is talking about (I don't think it makes that clear distinction between legitmate function, and this illigitimate function.) and Fraternties are consistantly held responsible for these functions, as if we can control every decision our members make. If a minor (both fraternity or sorority member) is drunk, it's 99% likely that they were at one of these illigitimate functions drinking.

So if a fraternity tried to monitor or control these functions that are not supposed to happen anyway they would be assuming even MORE liability and risk by getting involved in the coordination of illegal activity. Thus crossing the line from "individual decsions" (which the University holds us responsible for anyway) to "chapter function and particpation in illegal activity".
Touchy subject when there is no clear limit to what Fraternties can be liable for.

You're right. This is a gray area.

Many fraternities have some rule about how if a certain number of your fraternity throwing a party constitutes an official fraternity party.

Of course that is somewhat ridiculous if 10 guys live together off campus and if someone's birthday party was thrown there, it would be considered a fraternity party.

Bottom line is that when it's a fraternity event, you know. You can try and get around it by saying it occured off campus and wasn't advertised, but it's still a smaller version of a party.

If your guys are going to get into trouble for these smaller parties and primers anyway, share the blame. You threw a primer and did not check IDs so you get blame and the underaged sorority members that decided to put themselves at risk get blame.

-Rudey
--How is it any worse than what it is now?

***swoon*** UNLDelt, will you marry me?

Not to mention (though we've discussed it on here before) that this creates a very unequal and anachronistic balance of power when sorority women are dependent on fraternity men for alcohol/social events.

33 girl

You are absolutly right. It is an unfair balance of power. I think that the social life (again, talking about legitimate social functions) of any greek system would benefit from more sorority initiative, input, and participation. More varitiey, better turnout, better opportunities...would all come from more sorority involvement in social aspects of greek life. This better quality of our social aspects would hopefully act as a deterant to other, riskier, activities that some members gravitate towards when what's being offered isn't enticing enough.

It's about giving members options and choices and making the right chioces more appealing then the wrong ones. I think more sorority social participation can solve more than just this one problem of under age drinking, it can help with a lot of things. Unfortunatly the National Organizations do not seem to be willing to admit any part their members may have in the problems and therefore not recognize any part they may have in the solutions. And with the lawsuit happy world we live in, I can't really blame them. They do have an amazing control when it comes to liability issues. But, with any great reward there is risk...we all may be missing out on the obvious solution to the bigger, Greek wide problem b/c we are only looking for it in the Fraternities...I think both sides have the answer and need to come together to make it work.

And 33 girl,
dinner and drinks and I'm yours! ;)
(kidding, my girlfriend just scoweled haha!!!)

I hardly agree with it being the fraternity's responsibility to "entertain" sorority women... most parties I know of (Greeks don't have off campus housing, so the parties I am referring to would be on campus in the house), the men choose to throw on their own. You can't argue that there would be no drinking happening on fraternity property even if you take sorority women out of the picture... it's something that would still be happening regardless.

The thing that I've noticed at Mizzou is that the reason fraternities are held responsible is because THEY are the ones breaking the rules. We have a dry campus, and some fraternities continue to throw parties in their houses, which is breaking a rule. Yes, sorority women attend those parties. But the fraternity is the host of the party. You will NEVER see drinking in a sorority house. (And I mean that... it's not uncommon for girls to lose their membership over it.) If the rule is that the campus is dry, and a fraternity chooses to serve alcohol at a party, how is a sorority breaking any rule? Why should they be held responsible?

As for any parties that happen at an off campus location and later become associated with a GLO... in my opinion, that is entirely the fault of the person who chose to throw the party for not fully considering how it could reflect back onto their house.

With all that said... because we have a dry campus, all parties, mixers, etc. that are thrown by a fraternity and sorority are supposed to go through Greek Life. And these events are ALWAYS held at an off campus location... usually a club or bar. If there is a problem, both houses would likely be responsible because both houses involved would have had to rent out venue together. And for events like semi-formal and formal, lists of all members attending and their date's name must be submitted to Greek Life before the party is thrown... so there is some idea of who all was present if something happens.

STL Kappa,

I agree that if a Fraternity breaks a dry campus policy by throwing a party in their house then it's obvious that the Fraternity was to blame for the major infraction (still anyone, including sorority girls, who choose to individually break the rule by drinking on campus themseves should be sanctioned as students for that individual infraction, Fraternities should not be used as liability shields for individual actions). But we're not talking about drinking in a Fraternity owned house.

What the article is really addressing (but fails to clairify) is that Fraternities are being held responsible for OFF CAMPUS parties thrown by their individual members at their own homes and their own discretion with no support of the operations of the chapter. We as chapters cannot control every aspect of every members life. The link between individual party and Fraternity responsibility is made by authorities by saying:

"__# members of your Fraternity were participating in the off-campus function where minors were drinking (another individual decision). Therefore it was a 'chapter function'."

Even if there was NO chapter MONEY, PLANNING, SANCTIONING (mention in a meeting or notify through official chapter lines of communication), or RESOURCES going to this private, individual, party.

So to answer your question, by using the same logic used to link fraternities, sororities are indeed breaking the rules by "being there and participating" You are right, legally it matters whose house it is, and who paid. But again, those are individual decisions and those individuals should recieve punishments for disorderly household, or procureing or whatever by law.

But if the University, or the police want to link these inccidents to Greek houses based on under age drinking, what supposidly nabs Fraternities time and time again, they must remember that it is about consumption and proximaty, the girls are there...and guess what...they're drinking. So while sorority members may not own the house or apartment, and maybe they didn't pay for the booze, they are guilty by association.

But that logic is not currently extended to sororities, whose attendance at that function often makes up 50% or more of the people (especially under age drinkers) there. I am willing to bet my life's savings that every off campus private party that has been busted and linked to a Fraternity causing it to be closed or sanctioned has had an over whelming # of girls from any given particular sorority there. Probably the sorority who the legitimate function to take place later is sponsored with!

Sorority members participate equally in the violations, it's about time they participate equally in the sanctions, and hopefully that will cause them to participate equally in solutions to curb these risks.

Either that, or hold Fraternities to the same standard as Sororities and stop punishing the whole for individual actions beyond the scope of chapter control.

I apologize for the length of my responses. But truely appreciate the discussion that is developing. I'll try to keep it short and sweet from here on out :)

P.S. Homey the Bag: rude man. Not welcome here.

If someone could guarantee me that sorority women would show up to an alcohol free party then I would be more then willing to have some. But on my campus there’s an atmosphere of not only keeping up with the Jones’ but one upping them in the process.

And Kevlar281 helps to prove the point that there are pressures on Fraternities by Sororities to host these risky functions assuming the liability. Thank you Kevlar281.

I get what the thread was about... the off campus housing thing... I was just throwing my two cents in as well...

The reason my two cents doesn't have to do with off-campus parties is because, here, the police do not question or arrest anyone at a party unless they have alcohol (or something else illegal) in their possession. (So this means the cops have to SEE you with it... you put it down, you're in the clear. Crazy, huh?) Therefore, there never is any association to Greeks with off campus parties because people other than the homeowner are rarely ever arrested or even talked to by the police... regardless of whether or not they are in a fraternity or sorority. Obviously they cannot make a list of chapter members when they don't know anyone's names or if they're even Greek. (Assuming no one attends with XYZ printed on their ass, in which case, they're an idiot.) Also, I believe every fraternity governed by IFC (the majority of fraternities on our campus) has on campus housing... which most members live in. That alone nearly makes the off-campus discussion obsolete (to Mizzou) as most members, and therefore most parties, are on campus.

This reply is STILL probably missing the mark... just thought I'd explain why my post was different!

UNLDelt, Your point is well taken.

Yes, in the days of Yore when there were run outs where Fraternityies would say hey, lets go some where where we can dance and drink it was the norm.:) Usually done on meeting nights.

But now because of Federal Laws, it is a totallly differeent mind set because of the Risk Management Insurance.

Dont tell me ladies that it is strictly the Fraternitys fault.

You have Dry Houses but want to go party hearty. So where do you go? Ta Da Fraternity Partys.:)

So, I guess when we all become pastuerized, there will be no Greeks soon?:(

While I agree that it isn't right for sororities to rely on the fraternities for parties, I feel compelled to add a few points here...

Many fraternities have women at their recruitment functions to entice guys to join, which makes the implication that if you join that fraternity, you'll have hot women around all the time.

If fraternities just stop hosting parties, then sororities wouldn't rely on them. Everybody would go to bars where things are regulated with bouncers and bar tenders and the liability is greatly reduced because there are third party vendors taking care of everything. The sororities have had the rule for DECADES that no chapter funds could be used for alcohol. They have had dry houses for decades. Nobody is stopping the fraternities from doing the same thing.

People who host private parties at their own homes choose to do so. I don't see how their greek affiliation would come up unless they have letters plastered all over.

Every time we have mandated a sorority chapter that I work with to have only dry events, they find that none of the fraternities will do anything with them.

We do host events that have alcohol, as a cash bar, such as our formals and semi-formals. In the 21 years since I've been initiated, the only time there have been problems were when women's dates drank too much and engaged in property destruction. I'm sure there are some exceptions to that somewhere, but in my direct experience, this is how it has been. We also are required to provide bus transportation to such events. Why aren't the greeks doing more of this?

Back in my day, the fraternities threw the parties so that they could 1) drink underage 2) be the coolest fraternity on campus and 3) get lots of women to their house (not necessarily in that order!). The parties were all campus parties although we had mixers that involved one fraternity and one sorority also. There is something more going on with this generation though. Because, for all the alcohol that flowed pretty freely, people did not binge drink to the extent that they do now. The goal would be to get a slight buzz and maintain it all evening, not drink til you puke or pass out. I think that if sorority women stopped attending fraternity/fraternity member sponsored parties, the parties would still happen, with non-affiliated women there.

Dee

At many places, the women at rush parties has gone away with wet rush. Maybe the sweetheart will be there, but that's it. At any rate, brothers are not going to give a bid to a guy who spends the whole time chatting up the women. It would be the same way if there were men at sorority rush. Maybe there is the occasional guy who signs a bid for that reason but I doubt he makes it through pledging.



In many states, you cannot even enter a bar until you are 21, even if you're not drinking. Plus, the money required to rent a bar for a private party is prohibitive for many groups - and the bars have no desire to cut off the rest of their clientele for a party of 100 people. Especially when the majority of them won't be drinking alcohol!



Sororities and I think fraternities have been hearing the "if there are 2/3/5 XYZ members at an event, it is an XYZ function" for the last few years. I agree that it is garbage. Their Greek affiliation would "come up" because whether you're wearing letters or not, people know what GLO you're in!



Again, the expense can be prohibitive, and also some groups have rules against "out of town parties." If your college is in a dry town in the middle of nowhere, you can choose to violate the out of town party rule or the drinking in the fraternity house rule. You might as well violate the one that costs less money. The point I'm trying to make is that many of the risk management rules were made assuming that all chapters have an endless pit of money which is NOT the case.

You just answered your own question.

And of course if sorority women didn't go to parties, the fraternity men would still have them...but let's face it, many women join at least partly for an enhanced social life. To shell out a good chunk of change and then be told "by the way, you can't go to fraternity parties where they serve alcohol" and your GDI roommate can - i.e. your Greek membership has closed a door, not opened it - is why a lot of the smart, freethinking women who would be such a boon to our chapters are avoiding sororities.

Controlling alcohol on campus, finding solutions
Guest commentary

The University of Nebraska-Lincoln
The Daily Nebraskan
April 20, 2005


Two articles that kicked off the DN’s series addressing alcohol were, in my opinion, unbalanced and seemed to superficially address the issue.

What could have been a great forum to discuss the issues and challenges greek systems take on these days was watered down to the same old banter based on “Animal House,” a movie, and an attitude about greek life that I am confident to say, is just as much in the past for greeks as it is for everyone else.

Greek organizations have been evolving since their inception in 1776. The roles our organizations play in collegiate life have grown and changed many times in the past two centuries. We are now in a new stage of that evolution. What we offered students on campus in the 1980s and 1990s, a party environment (not the only aspect, but a large part), is no longer our primary role.

Today’s student is looking for more. Fraternities’ lower recruitment numbers are evidence of that. The chapters who cannot provide more than a social aspect to their members find themselves victims of “natural selection.” While chapters who expand, evolve and address other aspects of campus life consistently grow and prosper, and this is what we see happening to us today.

I would like to present an idea that is not often recognized by those who are looking for a place to easily place blame when it comes to this issue. I believe the greek system is, and always has been, a concentrated reflection of campus culture, not the driving force behind it.

Greeks are visible examples of the good aspects of college life: leadership development, campus and community involvement, academic success, etc. But we also can be visible examples of negative aspects, such as the abuse of alcohol. You can find these examples of both good and bad aspects everywhere on campus, not just on greek row.

But we provide the convenience of giving the problem greek letters for a name. We give it an address and an easy place for administrations, parents and lawyers to place blame and Band-Aids that “window dress” the problem, not solve it (our administration excluded, because of their progressive understanding that we cannot punish away this issue, thank you). We are not the source of the problem, but an example of the issue.

The article addressing liability as a deterrent seemed to only rehash past scars that today’s greek members must live with. And while there are no excuses for the actions of our predecessors, we must look at what current greeks are doing to learn from and prevent past mistakes.

My comments about the past of my own fraternity were to demonstrate how far we have come, not to demonstrate what we “got away with.” The article took the position that steps to address alcohol issues are mainly reactive. But, much can be said about the work greeks have done to be proactive in this area.

One example comes from my own fraternity, Delta Tau Delta. Since 1984, our fraternity has had programs in place to address this issue long before it became recognized as the pressing problem it is today. Delts Talking About Alcohol (DTAA) is a nationally recognized program that has done, for years, what great campus sponsored programs like NU Directions are doing today, and it’s worked.

It has acted as a template for other successful programs used at other colleges across the nation. We as a fraternity recognized the issues early, we were proactive and we continue to look for more solutions. Like many chapters, we strictly enforce a dry house and have developed programs to address related issues like drunken driving.

These are just a few examples of what greek organizations across the nation are doing to address issues that affect all students, not just greeks.

To clarify the comments made about sororities and their role in this issue, I would like to make it clear I did not intend to insult or offend. Rather, it was intended to extend an invitation to sororities to get involved in the real solutions.

It is no secret that the collegiate attitude toward alcohol does not discriminate based on gender. Men and women alike participate in the activities that comprise this issue. That means men and women, fraternities and sororities, must all be honest with ourselves about the roles we play both in the problem and in the solution.

Sororities, I hope you please acknowledge your members’ participation, and thereby your role, in these issues. And while your organizations have developed effective ways to shield their liability, none of us can shield ourselves from the duty we have to our greek system, campus, chapters, friends and the future of each.

Neither fraternities nor sororities alone hold the solution. The future and strength of our greek system, and of our campus at large, depends on all of us. We must initiate change, not become victims of it.

Matt Ellis
UNL ’04 Graduate
Delta Tau Delta Fraternity Alumnus

Brother Ellis makes some excellent points that we have either touched on or discussed at some length before.

It is a Risk Management factor that many chapters don't even consider.

. Okay I really do not understand this:

Fraternity guys who are of legal age have a private party with no connection to the fraternity which serve alcohols off campus in their own residences to underage drinkers......if something goes wrong....individual fraternity guys are liable, the underage drinkers are liable, and the fraternity.

Now should I host a party at my home that is not affiliated with the Democratic Party and serve alcohol and there happens to be underage drinkers and something goes wrong (Oh trust me-there would be no underage drinkers at my home...but for arguments sake)......I would be liable, the underage drinkers would be liable, and since I am a registered member of the United Stated Democratic Party, so are the Democrats.


Don't worry this one-it will never hold up...There have already been several court cases that have determined that public schools cannot discipline students for behavior that has occurred off campus. Such cases include O'Brain vs Westlake Board of Education (This was a case about an upset student who developed a webpage devoted about the shortcomings of his band teacher), Klien vs Smith (a student gave the finger to a teacher in an off campus restaurant). My guessers on the subject is that while schools tend to include the off-campus clause in the Code of Conduct-unless the activity is part of a university organization sanction activity or off-campus housing unit-all they can do it refer it to the local authorities.

What I want to know is where did this rule "if x number of ABC's are at an event together, it automatically becomes an ABC event" come from?

I have never seen it written down anywhere, and if it's not written down anywhere, how can it possibly be enforced. And if it's not written down anywhere, why are we all so worried about it?

The "rule" is absolutely ridiculous. For example, if 5 chapter sisters wanted to go and see a movie and then go out for coffee, it would have to be approved by HQ, because it would be an ABC event. Are people going to seek HQ approval everytime they want to hang out with sisters? No! And is HQ going to want to deal with all the requests they get if chapters have to get approval from. Of course not! So why are we worried about this.

I think this "rule" has stemmed from the unwritten rule that we should always be on our best behaviour when we are out in public, whether we are wearing letters or not because we are representations of our orgs. I think this is a rule that should be followed whether you are an ABC or XYZ of GDI.

I have actually seen this on a website, I think it was A Xi D's.

You can terminate a girl from your chapter for having a questionable reputation, and that isn't written down either...same concept. "Behavior unbecoming to the sorority" covers a multitude of sins. Same with "risk management."

Ultimately it's subjective for many GLOs but it's supposed to provide guidance to undergraduates.

-Rudey

I guess what I am trying to say is we shouldn't be so concerned with whether such and such an event will be a ABC or XYZ event, but rather we should be concerned that we are always behaving in an appropriate manner.

There is a world of difference in holding a whole fraternity/sorority responsible by the university because a few individuals engaged in off-campus non chapter sanctioned event which involved the use of alcohol and a sorority that holds an individual member accountable for questionable behavior. Sororities and Fraternities are more then free to set their own membership criteria. Members are usually not asked to relinqish their pin because of one indiscretion unless it is really a big one or makes headlines. In my experience, Exc Boards and Advisors usually look at a long history of indiscretions and multiple interventions before pulling a sister's pin.

Lady Pi Phi

I could not agree with you more-we should always strive to uphold the values and ideals of our respective GLO's.

Granted, if there are a group of Fraternity/Sorority Brothers/Sisters at ones Private Apt. when does it become a GLO Function.:confused:

It seems to be a way for some Schools to use this against us.:(

So, we are gathering at someones personell abode, then it is a Greek Function because We are of all the same G O? So invite an Independent? That will make it leagal?

So Why do We as Greeks party together, because We have a lot of things in common, DA!:rolleyes:

smiles.... Tom

You know as well as I for for any chapter sponsored activity there is always a form to fill out and turned in prior to the event especially if it is off-campus. Hint Hint: Liability insurance

I think the university is more coming from the perspective of not out to to get the Greeks but more from proactively and overly protecting their own assest. Any time there is alcohol consumed there is a risk of injury and perhaps hazing. Universities have lost a case or two in court which has rendered the opinion that they are liable for hazing of new members of university approved Greek organizations. It doesn't matter if the incident takes place on or off campus. I can pull up the cases if anyone is interested.