Pope John Paul II
 

http://www.polishnews.com/img/papiez3.jpg

Anyone watching Pope John Paul II's funeral service? It's nearly 2am here, but I decided to stay up all night to watch it live. At the very beginning, there was a man walking before the casket holding the book of scriptures (a red book). He looked like he was trying not to cry....my heart went out to him. It must have been a very emotional moment for him to lead the Pope out for the funeral service. :(

As a Polish-American, I felt that I wanted to "participate" with the rest of the world. I just found out that one of my cousins, who lives in Poland, travelled to Rome for the funeral. I'd like to think that Dominik travels on behalf of the whole Wiwatowski family.

You see, Pope John Paul II meant a *LOT* to the people of Poland.....even those who are not religious. He his election to Pope gave Poland a sense of worthiness, especially during a very difficult time for the Polish people. Further to that, he helped to push for Poland's ultimate freedom from Communism and for that they are grateful as well. Of course, we all know that his manner of reaching out to people of other religions was unmatched among Popes.

Since I am not Catholic, I do not have any particular tie to the Pope. (Well, I was baptized as a Roman Catholic, but chose for myself to become a Christian.) However, I think this one was exceptional and most of the people of the world appear to recognize that as well.


RIP Papiez Jan Pawel II


.....Kelly :(

I'm at work right now, so I have it on. Very, very sad. :(

For what it's worth, I watched ABC coverage. (Sorry, Lifesaver, no Katie Couric for me.) Here are some of my thoughts:

* The homily was beautiful. The parts where Cardinal Ratzinger talked about the Pope's election in 1978 and his last Easter appearance were especially touching.

* Flags of many nations - there were *lots and LOTS* of flags from Poland (top half white/bottom half red, some displaying the eagle) plus flags from everywhere. Very cool!

* It was nice to see the different religious clerics in the audience

* I enjoyed the photo slideshow retrospectives they showed every now and again. I especially enjoyed the photos and clips of the Pope greeting children.

* Wow! The Sign of Peace custom, AKA the "meet and greet moment" was something else. To see world leaders turning to each other to shake hands and wish peace to one another was very interesting.

* It was so sweet when the crowd sort of took over before the final prayers by adding their own part to the ceremony by clapping and chanting. It was very gracious of the Cardinals to allow the crowd to do this for several minutes!

* I also thought the segment where the Cardinals from the Eastern Churches sang special prayers was special. It was so different from the previous music segments. Apparently participation by the Eastern Churches is unprecedented.

* It was also nice to hear that, when the actual internment takes place downstairs in the crypt, the Pope's family will among the 20 or so people in attendance.

* I have to say that I did ok through the whole thing...until the very end. When the pallbearers walked the casket to the door of the basillica, and then turned the Pope around to face the people one last time, I simply burst into tears.


.....Kelly :(

One of the paralegals I work with's brother was the guy who read the Epistle at the funeral. His name is John Mcdonald from Citronelle, Alabama. We were so proud of him!!! He was hand picked by the faculty at the Anglicum school in Rome to participate!

Re: Pope John Paul II
 

This is the most inappropriate thing I may have ever read on GreekChat and I can't believe it came from one of my own sisters. What on earth has led you to believe that Catholics are not Christian, which is precisely what your post is implying?

OOF.

I was thinking the same thing. And I have read something similar before on GC. Roman Catholics are Christians. Maybe she meant Protestant.


I missed the entire funeral since I was sleeping. Does anyone know if the funeral will be aired again? I woke up and only watched the last few minutes.

I am giving her the benefit of the doubt and think she meant to type Protestant.

I watched some of the funeral, and then fell asleep. Funny how much I remembered of Mass.

The Sign of Peace Custom blew me away.

Re: Re: Pope John Paul II
 

I wasn't intending to be disrespectful. :( Surely you could have PM'd me instead of calling me out on the board and bringing our sisterhood into this?

I have nothing against Catholic worshippers. I was baptized Catholic, most of my family is Catholic, my own father attends mass regularly and is actually employed at the parish. In this context, I meant to say "protestant". I guess, due to the fact that you are Catholic yourself (right?), you automatically thought I was saying that Catholics are not Christian. In fact, that is not what I said. I was merely trying to distinguish between Catholic and non-Catholic. Indeed, some people would assert that we are *all* "Catholic" as that word refers to the universal church.

Over here, when someone describes their religious practices they say "I am Catholic" or "I am a Christian" etc. No one says "I am a Protestant." Perhaps it is different in your part of the country? Further to that, "Church of God, Reformation Movement - Anderson, Indiana" seemed a little too cumbersome for my post.

I think you grossly misunderstood what I was saying. I apologize for offending you and others on this board through my incorrect word use. I assure you again that what you propose is not at all what I was trying to convey.

Now am I sad that I have unintentionally offended a sister and the whole spirit of my original post has been lost. :( All I was trying to say with that last paragraph was that, even though he was not the leader of my particular denomination, I still admired him. Enough so that I stayed up all night and cried along with millions of others.

Please forgive my mistake.

.....Kelly :(

Call off the hounds.

Kelly's posts were very respectful, and a slip of the keyboard or misunderstood phrase can be overlooked, can't it?

I haven't seen any of the service, but hope to over the weekend providing the VHS machine decided to work.

Having had the opportunity to direct for television an outdoor Papal Mass and Candlelight prayer vigil with the late Pope, I'm anxious to see the Vatican coverage.

I apologize for any hurt feelings, but I've seen "Catholics aren't Christian" too much on GC.

And yes, where I'm from, people say "I'm not Catholic, I'm Methodist/Presbyterian/ELCA/WELS/non-denominational/Jewish/Krispy Kreme/Manalo."

I watched the funeral last night and it was a very good and moving service.

I've heard the "I'm not Catholic, I'm Christian" thing EVERYWHERE. It's a common mistake that lots of people continue to make although it's totally ass-backwards. I don't know why people believe this though...

But I'm agnostic (baptized Catholic), and I don't know why I'm bothered by the Pope's death. I really was saddened when I heard the news. We all knew it was going to happen, but still...:(He may have said some things that many people don't agree with, but he truly was a forward-thinking Pope. The fact he even admits that the Church committed sins was a great thing. I hope his successor continues to move the Church in this direction.

I'm bothered by this too. This often comes from Protestants who are members of more evangelical churches. If that's the case, then are members of "mainline"/"high" churches such as the Anglican/Episcopal church or Presbytarians considered "Christian" or are they something else? Anglican services are often criticized for being too "Catholic."

I know what you mean. I was deeply saddened by this too. John Paul was the only pope I knew. I remember my Grade 1 teacher telling the class about him on my first day in Catholic school.

well let this thread go to remind people that Catholics consider it a great insult when people say or imply that they are not Christians.

Exactimundo! While I am a lapsed Roman Catholic, I still hold great respect for the Church and I would take great offense if someone insulted my religious beliefs. As a Masonic Knight Templar, I also took an obligation to defend the Christian religion as well, and it's an obligation I don't take lightly.

For many people who are not Catholic, the grand ceremonies that took place during the Holy Father's funeral this (very early)morning is but just a sampling of the Roman Catholic rites most people are exposed to. And much of it is in either Latin or Italian.

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen. (In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.)

I am not Catholic either, but I have always been fascinated by the church's traditions and extravagant (in the good way) services. I have been watching the various TV coverage and, more often than not, find myself in tears.

BTW, I always classify myself as Lutheran, and take it a step further and designate LCMS Lutheran.

I'd rather this thread go as a place for people to make warm observations about the Pope's funeral service. :(

Again, I never intended to insult anyone, it was an accident. Shoot, when I was in Poland, my family asked me about my religious practices - they didn't even know what I meant when I tried to tell them that I'm a "Christian". The whole concept of protestantism was foreign to them (and yes, I even used the word "protestant" at one point). I guess it just goes to show you that words sometimes fail us - what means one thing to one, can mean something else to another (or nothing at all!).

Finally, in case it wasn't clear before, I am not in that camp of people who say that Catholics are not Christians. It was simply a misunderstanding.

.....Kelly :)

Relax, Its not an attack upon catholics.

Navane was obviously trying to be catholic (little c) in her post, but it seems people are looking to get offended.

Where I grew up I heard that Catholics werent Christians. I also heard that presbyterians and everyone else who wasnt a baptist wasnt a christian. In my hometown there were two groups that were the self described 'christians'; the baptists and the pentocostials. They were the professional christians in my hometown and made a profession of making everyone else feel like crap if you werent a part of their 'sect'. The kids carried bibles to class. If ya wanna talk about being offended, you should have gone to my high school, where the baptists (who ran the town) had MANDATORY assemblies at my high school where the keynote speaker was the revival keynote and we (the entire student body) were all made to go and publically told we were gonna burn in hell if we didnt repent and accept jesus as our savior. Yeah the looser principal, (Daniel Coward, who i think is now the principal at Amarillo High School- feel free to look it up and harass him, cause I have NO PROBLEM with it....) not only sanctioned this, but sent the non christian kids to detention for not going - cause hes a big ole fundamentalist baptist too. So if the five (outta 1500) buddist kids and 2 jewish kids didnt wanna go get lectured on jesus for 3 hours then they got detention and 45 minuts less lunch than the rest of us. Yeah, thats the religious intolerance I had to endure, so no one needs to lecture on here about being offended. Cause in my small ass town, if you raised hell, you'd get arrested for whatever, like for not loving jesus enough and shit. Again, cause the baptists ran the town. (Yeah, the downside of living in Texas. It had civil suit written all over it, but that was back in the day before people thought of that shit. Hell, I woulld entered into a suit. There was also a gay kid who got the shit beat outta him so hard he had to drink outta a straw for the rest of our three years in HS. Nothing happened. Today, the school woullda paid about 13.2 million dollars for knowing he was gay and not protecting him.)

Fuck, I am just lucky I escaped there and can read.

Theres hella bigger issues to get all worked up about and this isnt one. its a regional thing and let is leave it be. Someones readiness to be offended got someone else upset and hurt.

It wasnt intentional.. Lets all understnd we dont all live in greater PA or MT wherever and MOVE ON.

a lovely ceremony...
many of my students are thinking about the whole religious situation after the pope's death.

Also remember that when someone states that they are "Christian," they may be referring to the Christian Church, as in the formal name of a religious denomination.

Be blessed and be happy.
Silver

I am not catholic and i grew up presbyterian..... however, my dad is catholic and we have been in so many deep discussions this past week ,and even right before the death of the pope. I have found everything i have wittnessed in the catholic church from what i have seen on TV and read this past week completely fasicinating. From the traditions and rituals to the beautiful soul stirring music for the masses and the funeral as well as when he was laying in state.

The funeral was profoundly touching and moving. this is the first funeral for a pope i have wittnessed as i was just a kid when the other two died in 78. I just recal my cartoons being interrupted alot. To watch as a grown up and wittness the ritual and symbolic traditions is very moving.

He was surely a well respected pope who had respect from many non catholics around the world.

It will be odd in a sense to see a new pope take the position.

As I understand it, he can choose his own name.

He chooses it on his own, but often influenced by two factors:

1) A saint he feels is his particular guide/influence

2) A pope who he feels was a strong infulence.

Some people in the church have said that the next one should take John Paul III as his papal name as a way to honor John Paul II. I was thinking differently. It seems to me that in taking a different papal name, it would be saying "I know I cannot fill his shoes because of his greatness". Time will tell what he chooses to do.

Dee

THis all so interesting .... Next week will be very interesting to witness