balanced man vs traditional
 

I was just wondering who here is at a balanced man chapter and who is at a traditional chapter and what they thought about the change from traditional to BMP. Do you think that it's for the best or just something nationals likes because it helps our image. How would you compare a traditional chapter to a BMP chapter?

Traditional and BMP chapters have some differences, but when it comes right down to it, they should be the same. Sure, there is no trial membership in BMP, and it does take longer to know all the ritual, but it is all the same. SigEp does not promote hazing (of course) so even traditional shouldn't have it. Our chapter went BMP about 5 years ago, mainly because we were in trouble of losing our charter. Our chapter was dying and we were not excelling in anything, whatsoever. Now we have about 60 men, Dean's Trophy Winners, Intramural winners and highest GPA... not to mention 2 reps on the student governing board. We really are balanced men, like we should be.
Joe
California Theta

Its all the same. Just a marketing move on nationals part. I think we should all go back to being traditional chapters. It seems like the numbers for most chapters were bigger when they were traditional. Anyhow, My chapter has always been BMP. I like it, but sometimes I wonder how it would be if we were traditional. At my school, $220 is about 1/6 of what you pay for tuition. Its hard to get people to dish out the $220. But once we get over that hump its not too bad.

Emil

Going back to a traditional chapter is a terrible ideal. I don't understand how you can make such an extrodinary statement when your chapter has always been bmp. The BMP is probably the only reason SigEp has shown growth of 1% over the past five years while all other fraternities have shown an average of 5% decline.

And for your marketing statement. Yes, it is a marketing move. They are selling that being in SigEp will make you a better person both physically and mentally. It is all about promoting better brothers that makes the better image. Read pg 105 in The Lifetime Responsibilities of Brotherhood to see how important perception is.

I have gone through a traditional system and was treated as a subclass member. That is not what SigEp is about. I was hazed and I can bet you the majority of traditional chapters do as well.

Random sorority chick butting in
 

I know this isn't my forum, but don't assume, because when we assume we make an ASS out of U and ME. To make that kind of assumption is very degrading to your brothers just because they don't do the same thing you do.

Anyway, I had meant to ask this before. My sorority (ASA) is going to a new pledge program called ASA Advantage that sounds a lot like Balanced Man, from what I have read about it. Our old program was everything done in a group, now this is more work on your own and at your own pace and has several different stages. I'm glad we are getting rid of the old one, but this sounds like it might be going too far the other way - like everyone just goes off in their own directions and building unity is hard. Also, we are not being given the choice to do this like you guys were - it was put into place by national council, period.

Guess I'm just looking for some feedback on your program, to help me understand mine.

Hey Vegan,

The balanced man program is a very, very good program. The main problem I have with it is that "tradition" is what makes fraternities strong. Well it makes local chapters strong. That has been the hardest thing to do here at my chapter. We have a hard time tryng to build tradition. Everytime we do something, you have at least one guy say "well, I'm not a pledge I don't have to do it." Someone said this to me the other day, I was like who the hell called you a pledge? YOu know, Unity and Tradition are two thing that make fraternities strong. We have been balanced man our entire history. I would like the chance to try it, so that atleast I can say "I was from a traditional chapter, I know what it is like, and Balanced Man Project is so much better." I don't know man. Right now I am Chapter President. It's been real hard for us. REAL HARD!

got to go. I'll write more later.

Emil
spe_raider@yahoo.com

email me if you would like to get into details

Ah, I see your point. Well for that matter traditional is a term nationals don't even use. The use Balanced Man Program Chapters and Non-Balanced Man Chapters. The twelve founding fathers didn't have pledging as far as I know. It is not a tradition of sigep but rather a tradition of Theta Delta Chi. Every chapter needs traditions but there are good ones and bad ones. Your chapter needs to find it's identity make good traditions in the BMP without looking at the obsolete.

One thing we do for new members is an activity called "Brother in Need" or BIN until they witness it.

The New members are lined up blind folded in a semi circle and the rest of the brothers complete the circle filling in the back if necessary. Three brothers are in push up position. The VP Development gives the cue to go and the brothers start doing push ups. He then tells the new members to remove their blind folds. When a brother gets tired he yells "Brother in Need". and another brother comes to his aid and does his pushups for him. This continues until the New members help a brother in need, then applause commences out of the silence.

It is a good activity to promote the fact that we are here for each other whenever we may call. Blindfolding isn't hazing them because we have a right to keep secrecy of some events like the ritual, and we aren't asking them to do anything any other brother isn't willing to do.

Yeah my chapter too was made and is being made again to go BMP. It is work at your own pace and it is probably the basis of your development scheme. I understand that you don't get the same pledge unity but why do pledge events when you can have a brotherhood event and have everyone get to know each other better. Look at it this way. When I went through I was responsible for all of my pledge brothers. I could know everything down pat and if they missed anything I would be the one doing fifty push ups on the floor. Moving at your own pace is good and it encourages the ability to recruit people who have less time or a hard to work around schedule like music majors and athletes. And your not doing it alone you should have a mentor at your side. There can be group activities for one development stage but everyone has the ability to move up when it's their time. I can't stand putting through worthless brothers because they learned some history and were made slaves for 8 or 10 weeks. I'd rather they earned it by bettering themselves and the chapter. If you think it's gonna cause problems with unity then have retreats and unity activities so it benifits not only new members but the organization as a whole.

Here is the thing,

Guys that join around the same time usually end up running the fraternity at the same time. I joined in Feb. or 99. I am chapter president, all of the guys on my exec board joined either one semester before or one semester after I did. When you pledge together, you have to work together to accomplish goals and when you fail everyone loses. The BMP project seperates the guys that otherwise should be pledging together and keeps them from learning valueable lessons about teamwork and about eachother that they should have learned during their pledge ship. They are forced to work with eachother on the execboard having very little experince and knowledge of eachother. Plus, you can have pledge activities and still have brotherhood events. Like I said there is good things and bad things in each of the programs. For development purposes I would have to agree that BMP is best, but for the purpose of teaching men of the same class to work together, to set and accomplish goals, I think that the traditional style fraternity promotes that the best. A combination of both would probably be best, if they didn't contradict eachother.

EMil

OK, one there is nothing wrong with doing events with your development group. As a matter of fact it is good to learn from others who are in the same situation but we all have our individual journey. You Challange Coordinators can plan events for only simgas, phis, epsilons, or brother mentors. The activities don't have to be open to all parties. And I agree most serving on exec. board do come within a semester but that wouldn't be all of the exec. and you would still probably be better off in a entire brotherhood event.

traditional vs. BMP
 

My chapter, California Theta has risen from the dust since we have changed to BMP. We we 'forced' to go BMP because of our lack of direction. But let me remind people, the BMP does not make you lose 'tradition' it simply takes away useless ones. I know my chapter has been part of both phases... and we still have brothers that are active from the traditional chapter. We lost a lot of 'traditions' but instead we have recreated them to have meaning. I know some chapters around here that started BMP are having some troubles finding some kind of 'tradtion' they could have... but that is such a bad perception.

Without getting into too much more deatil about so called 'tradition' let me tell you about my chapter. We are BMP. When we started BMP we had 12 men, a 2.1 GPA prior to switching. Now we have close to a 3.0 GPA (0.50 higher than any other fraternity). We have won IM's 2 of the last 3 years. Current IM champs, football, basketball (3 on 3 and 5 on 5), Deans Trophy 5 of the last 6 years, Greek Man of the Year a lot of times, Greek Scholar, President of the Year, current president of IFC and Order of Omega, won numerous philanthropies and we have had mixers with the top 3 sororities on campus this semester alone. To top it off, we have 58 men and we are assuming we will top 70 within a year. Now even though BMP may seem it has its 'downsides', the problem is not tradtion, it's implementation... how does your chapter implement the system.

Anyway, as a man from a chapter that has come from the roots of a traditional chapter, the BMP is an obvious advantage over traditional... not to mention, the ritual is ultimately EXACTLY the same... so nothing changes.

Sig Eps came back to U of Illinois a few years ago with BMP. They had been kicked off in '95 for reasons that I can't post publicly (but PM me if you really care). This past year at Greek Excellence Awards, they were the top chapter, the best GPA, and their president was named outstanding president. Those are three of the top honors.

I was once told by their recruitment chair that they bid almost every guy who rushes, because they believe that no matter what that man's weaknesses are, the chapter is strong enough to help him overcome them. In short, the chapter makes the man, not the other way around.

They moved back into their original chapter house this year because they finally got enough members. I have never seen a chapter do so well in so short a time.

Not to be cynical or anything,

but the reason I posted my first question was so that I could stir up a conversation about the BMP program. Vegan put up a very good argument for everything that I threw up on the message board(good job.) Also Delta Baby made a very brought up a good point about bidding most everyone that wants to rush. The Bmp Program is so detailed that it can work to make anyone an outstanding, productive member both academically and socially. We have bidded some guys that at first weren't exactly what you call "SigEp" material. But because of our development program they have turned into some of our most outstanding members. My chapter had three men last semester. Right now we sit at 23. Next semester we should be between 35 and 40. I attribute our much of our success to the BMP project because it has allowed us to structure our fraternity in a manner that allows all members to participate and grow together. We are making a move on IFC. We expect that we will occupy both President and V.P. recruitment chairs in IFC. We have done over 600hours of community service. Our G.P.A. is up. A lot of it has to do with the way our development program (BMP) is structured. The Balance Man Project is amazing. It is the reason SigEp continues to grow. Vegan, youre the man. I can tell you have a deep understanding of both the three cardinal principals and the BMP Project.

Emil

For those who keep on saying the ritual is almost the same:

Well as of this conclave it is. The only difference is that in BMP they see peices before it is all done. Non-Balanced Man Chapters now have Brother Mentor as well.

And I like some debate. I used to be a hate of the BMP my first semester as a brother when I found our what it was at carlsons. I hope whoever reads this will get something out of it or add comments if they wish to correct me.

Ritual has always been the same... HQ's is just putting it all in one book now and changing a little bit of the wording. As of last conclave, ever SPE chapter will now get the SAME book, with instructions on how to split it up if youre BMP

Balanced man chapters not competing? Well that's a first. Most brothers in Non-Balanced Man Chapters do not like the ideal of the BMP. I was one of them. I dispised the project at first. It is hard to discard you misconceptions that you aquired when you are pledging. But that's something that has to be dealt with by the brother alone. If they do not change with the chapter (if it's time comes) then they will be discarded as "the bad apples".

Balanced Man vs Pleadging model
 

We all need to remember that pledging model chapters are not "traditional" chapters. To call them that, we are saying that BMP chapters have no tradition.

Definitely, can we all say Non-Balanced Man Project Chapters because that's the national term.

you guys are a bunch of idiots........who the hell cares whether we call them traditional or non-balanced man?
:confused:


here is my take, since it seems to be so very important to you.
I'm from Texas, I call them traditional. I dont think that by calling them traditional i am insinuating that 'balanced man chapters" have no tradition. I myself am from a balanced man chapter. Calling traditional chapters non-balanced man chapters is bullshit.

"traditionally" SigEp chapters were pledge oriented. Thus they are the traditional style chapter.


BMP is a new program. Give them their due.

Emil

"Balanced Man vs. Traditional"
 

"Calling 'Non-Balanced Man' chapters 'traditional' implies that Balanced Man chapters have no tradition."

Well, individual BMP chapters may have some traditions on their own accord but the Balanced Man program is about as "traditional" as cell phones. I have no qualm with calling a spade a spade - traditional chapters are just that - traditional (ya know, with the evil pledge system and all).

Now, for truth's sake, I won't sit here and defend the "traditional" (pledge) system with claims that "its always been done that way." First of all, I may be an alumni, but I'm only 22, and secondly, the truth is that for the first few years of the Fraternity, there was no pledge system. But for that matter, there was no Ritual as we know it, either. These things took a few years to develop.

I think that the Balanced Man program is a travesty because it says to the world that SigEp was sub-par before the institution of this system. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying there is nothing good about the BMP, but the good aspects could have been implemented without doing away with the traditional pledge system and completely (in my opinion) shredding the Ritual by dividing it into unnatural "rites."

Another problem (and probably my biggest problem) with the BMP is the way it is being handeled by Nationals. I realize that, at this point, a traditional chapter cannot be forced to adopt the Balanced Man program (unless they are kicked off campus) but I am affraid that in the not-so-distant future, we will see a move to force all remaining traditional chapters to become BM chapters.

I think that it is asanine that new and re-chartered chapters do not have the choice as to whether or not they will be traditional or Balanced Man. Does our Fraternity really have something against traditional chapters? Evidently so. Just look at the current policy- it makes it look as though BMP chapters are preferable to traditional chapters. If they are not, why not give newly chartered chapters a choice as to whether they want to be traditional or Balanced Man? The answer to that question is right up there with "Where is Jimmy Hoffa?"

My opinion is that all of the traditional chapters that are left should band together (with friendly BMP chapters) at the next Conclave and get a bill passed protecting existing traditional chapters from being forced to go BM, ever.

Sorry about the ranting and raving but coming from a traditional chapter (and a Southern one at that), I was there as we swatted Nationals' not-so-subtle suggestions year after year that we become Balanced Man. And believe you me, it is very disHEARTening to feel like you are a "second-class" chapter in the eyes of your national fraternity simply because of your age and by virtue of the fact that you cherish your Fraternity's heritage and tradition.

In the Heart,
SigEp Alumni - HFF

Right on dude,

The BMP is totally just a marketing move and nationals is "forcing" everyone to go balanced man. I like some aspects of the BMP and I like some things about the traditional chapters. I dont think nationals should be forcing bmp on everyone, but thats whats happening. Anyhow,


whatever.

Emil

i am a brother of a traditional chapter and i am obviously biased to traditional. I loved my PLEDGE semester, and loved my fellow pledge brothers, and i dont see that love being stronger in a BMP. We worked together, got messed with together, and had hell week together...Now there isnt one single moment in my life that i can compare the moments to my hell week with ..NOTHING..all the mental anguish all the struggles all THE DAMN JOY OF THE HUGS and LOVE that that week produced is impossible to put into words...i am sure BMP has its good points but right off i see the main loss of unity which in my eyes equals love........860

Traditional Always!
 

I am a Sig Ep in MIchigan. I just finshed pledging last term. I had a blast. Sure I went through a lot and there were mental struggles but there was no hazing. The principle of bringing a group of brothers together is preserved in a pledge class. It forces the pledges to get to know their older members. Going BM gives me no incentive to get to know the older brothers and as for the chapters I have visited that are balance man I have met no new members who understand the full concept of being a brother. I was taught the address and songs the grip and the way a true brother should be. On our road trip i met new members who didn't even know the address to their house let alone the songs in which our fraternity lies dear. True our founding fathers were not traditional but who would have pledged them because there was no one in front of them. Obviously at some point the founders decided to go with a traditional style chapter and I think it was a right thing to do. It promotes unity amongst all not some. I will keep my fraternity traditional till the day i die and as for you guys who say traditional is subpar well my chapter just doubled numbers from 16 to 32 and we hold 4 out of five positions on ifc including pres. We have the second highest g.p.a on campus and we have the strongest group unity. We run our campus and we love it. Not to mention we love each other.

On an ending note, as fitting as this may seem. We need to stop arguing about which style is better. We all have our preferences and we should be allowed to go as we choose. We must remember we are all brothers and brothers should not dislike each other nor argue to change each other. Sigma Phi Epsilon is not just a fraternity but it's a way fo life we need to keep sacred and entrust. We cannot just let anyone in then what our we the Boy scouts. Pledging eliminates the weak and the ones who can't commit full time. For the people who are music majors or athletes maybe the fraternal life is not for them. If they don't have the time to pledge then how do I know they will have the time for my fraternity which I hold dear. Think about it! Maybe the fraternity life is best left to those who can give it their all from the start not to be molded or shaped to fit a standard. Our diversity is what keeps us unique let's stay traditional and prevent a nazi like regime from running our fraternities.

Traditional and Proud
 

We here at Washington Alpha are traditional and will remain that way as long as at least one of my boys has some say in our fraternity. We almost got shut down last year and we had nationals sending everybody they could out to us to give us a BMP sales pitch and threaten to take our charter away unless we droppped traditions that are 90 years old in favor of a program that might make the university like us a little bit more. We have always had one of the biggest houses on campus, always ranked top 5 in grades, and have been turning out balanced men since 1912. Hell Oscar Draper, Grand President-1928, who wrote the Creed of Sigma Phi Epsilon (page vii, LROB) put in a year of pledgeship and experienced the same week of initiation that everyone since has done in my house. EVERYTHING we do has meaning and is revealed during "I" week or pledgeship. True, the BMP program has a lot going for it, and has helped many chapters. Ive visited other houses, both BMP and traditional, and formed my own opinions from what Ive seen. So let me invite you to visit my house, and I will show one of the biggest, strongest, and most respected brotherhoods you've seen. But be forwarned, walk through the red door without being fully initiated and shit will hit the fan.;)

Gentlemen,

This is my first ever posting on greek chat as I have just signed up. Ms. SigEpRaider got me signed up. But I digress.

I am an alumni from University of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Gamma. During my 5 years at my chapter, I acquired a lot of knowelege that I'd like to share.

First of all, those of you who are saying that the founding fathers didn't have a pledge program are absolutely right. Pledging and "Hazing" didn't officially come into existance until after World War 2. After the war, There was a flood of people attending college due to the GI Bill that FDR instituted. After the Mental and Physical rigours that the men were expoesed to, they decided that they needed to "Haze" new members coming in to bond with them, because that's how they related to their comrades in the war. Obviously, this notion is now extremely outdated.

I am from a Traditional Chapter, and during my tenure there, I saw first hand how numbers dwindled and the quality of those we recruited fall along with the numbers. I now feel that the only way my chapter will survive another 5 years is if they go bmp. We had guys, about 80% of the chapter, get initiated, and then do NOTHING but take up space and valuable oxygen. With the BMP plan, if you don't participate, you eventually lose your membership status. It's that simple. NO Dead Wood. No Apathy, which is the main reason chapters die out. If you don't care enough to particiapte, than you have no buisness being a brother of this Fraternity. BMP will help weed out those weak links that we all have in our traditional chapters, making us stronger over all. And that's the real goal here.

A few clarifications...

-SigEp has been growing nationally. So it couldn't have possibly shrunk due to the BMP.
-"Nationals" does not use the term "non-BMP" chapters. The idea is that we're all supposed to be balanced men, whether or not we pledge. Pledging is not an excuse to be balanced.
-There are arguments for both sides, but neither is a cure all. Both pledging and non-pledging model chapters can be wonderful, if they have the right men. Both will fail with the wrong men.

Also, "nationals" is not a faceless entity, as it seems to be portrayed here. The men (real people) who work as HQ staff put in several dozen hours each week for very little pay trying to help undergraduates have the best fraternity experience possible. There are also hundereds of unpaid volunteers who work towards the same goal. To think that HQ is in the business of closing chapters is sort of silly. If they kept closing chapters, where would they work? If a chapter behaves like the gentlemen they claim to be, there's not much chance of being "closed down." And if you don't want to be a gentleman, I say you need to examine why you chose to be a SigEp in the first place.

I'm not saying that everyone needs to be perfect--far from it. But the only way to be able to work hard and play hard is to start by working hard.

Sorry but that is all I hear from the headquarters staff is non-balanced man project chapter, which has the pledge model development system, when I used to refer to them as traditional. Agreed we are all balance man chapters but not all of us are balanced man project chapters.

I come from a traditional chapter.

In my chapter you are either a brother or you are not!
There is no I've finsihed the sigma challenge so now I know a 1/3 of the ritual, or i've finished the Phi section now I'm 2/3 on my way.

BMP may be right for some chapters, but let the chapters decide. Just as diversity of men is the key in each chapter. So should diversity of each chapter be to the whole.

Our chapter program is not perfect by any means, however I hope natioanls will be generous with our faults, as we are with theirs and allow us to continue in peace and harmony.

WA Alpha destroyed
 

Last week our loving naitonal HQ flew in our RD, director of expansion, and our old RD (Czar, good guy but not today) along with a board of our local alumni. The took our charter away and put my house under a "membership review". This entailed a one on one interview with the national reps and our own alumni where we were told that they are eliminating our pledgeship and implementing the BMP WITHOUT our vote. They can do this because when they took our charter we no longer had a say. This was ALL a result from a parent of a pussy PLEDGE (thats freshman or sigma challenge now I guess) whom called the University about our late night workoffs. The result of these interviews was expulsion of 35 members and 2 freshman, leaving 21 guys in the house who pleased the alumni. WE WERE TOLD THAT OUR LOCAL TRADITIONS AND PARTS OF RITUALS WILL NO LONGER CONTINUE BECAUSE THEY CONTAIN SOME FORM OF HAZEING. We are the 2nd oldest and one of the last tradional chapters on the westcoast, and in this past week Ive seen everything Ive loved and thought my house stood for crumble. Traditions that have gone down here for 90 years and that have made me a much better person has stopped and will no longer continue. I am no longer allowed on our property, cannot wear letters, cannot identify myself as a sigep, and am definatly not supposed to take part in house functions anymore. ALL because my boys and I were keeping shit alive that we loved and respected and all went through ourselves. Apperently once we graduate we get alumni status, I suppose thats so nationals can hit me up for cash one im a wealthy alumn. whatever. They destroyed the strogest and most respected brotherhood at WSU. They cut my pledge class in half and only allowed half to stay. "Stick with your boys..no matter what" was beat into my head for an entire year. The times I went through during my pledgeship was some of the best of my life. The last day of my initiation was probally the greatest.They have taken a tried and proven method of developing strong brotherhood makeing truly better men and abolished it. I was tought to love the house with all I had. I can tell you how many tiles are on our chapter room floor, planks on the wall, steps in the house and the initiation number of every one of my seniors. This all stopped. I feel worst for the sophmores who signed at semester last spring and are due up for thier "I" week. They will never be a true member. They will not do the same thing that the 1647 before them had. They wont have the experience, the growth, and the understanding. I learned the true meanings of virtue, diligence, brotherly love and most importantly HFF. Where is any of that now? I had so much pride and faith in this brotherhood and I feel like Ive been stabbed in the back. Its a dark day for WA Alpaha, and if this is the way our fraternity is headed on a national scale then I am sorry for us all.
-ALI, 1650 (did I mention they eliminated #s, one of the most respected things in my house?)

I went to a BMP "leadership program" a few months ago and all of the BMP guys that I met were dorks. I also met a few other traditional pledges and they were cool as hell. Maybe I just met a bad group of BMP members, but I think that the balanced man chapters recruit different types of kids who just are not same as many of the traditional chapters, but I could be wrong.

my 2 cents
 

I pledged a Traditional (non-balanced man) chapter. My pledge ship was inspiring to me. I was asked to do things that maybe I would normally not do, but did these things out of respect towards the active class and the alumni that were there before me. I was never asked to do anything gross or anything that was physically imposable. All the activities that my pledge brothers and I did were very important to our growth together as fraternity brothers and as friends. Since then my chapter is trying to make strides in trying to instill the same motivation and heart in our new members that has been passed down. We have realized that most of the stuff that was done in the past was stupid. We have adopted a new program for our pledges. This program is still new to us and still has a lot of bugs in it.

As far a tradition that my chapter will always uphold is having the biggest and best house on campus. My chapter had the first house on campus in 1952 and just broke ground our new house April 19th, 2003. We are now building our chapter membership and working to become one of the top three fraternities on campus. We are also starting to build our own traditions that will be carried on for the ages. We have also adopted many BMP ideas and have been very successful with those endeavourers.

I will add more in time.

Fraternally,
Michael J

BM vs traditional ??
 

I am very sorry to all who have to go through a BM program. You are missing out on one of the greatest experiences of your life. Traditional is quite better. The time you spend with your pledge class through all the rough times pulls you together like nothing else. It is a bonding time that promotes brotherhood through good times and bad. Im am sorry I have also seen BM at work and it is an easy way to gain you letters. I think it is a cop out and it was implimented by nationals to save face with the anti greek atmosphere in the early 90s. I am from one of the most traditional Greek systems in the country where the system is involved with everything on campus. We have scholarship programs, fund raisers, and we are active in student Government, not to mention Alumni Associations and honor Societies. We are also a Division 1 school in the SEC so we are not talkin about some small country college and Traditional works if you do it right. And yes to you hard core they are traditional so they must haze individuals, we do haze quite a bit actually and we are also a 100 man house which is quite large here. Hazing if done constructivly instills resopect for not just older brothers, but the house and traditions of SigEp and I think it is a shame that nationals wants to take that out.

Hey Mikey J, don't I know you?

Anyhow, the long disputed BMP vs. Traditional argument always seems to weasel its way into conversation among brothers at our chapter.

Here is my take on BMP. BMP is a marketing strategy. It brings in members which bring in money. Money keeps SigEp alive. It also acts as a method of retention for those chapters that have a hard time motivating new members. New members get a small taste of the ritual in BMP, where in a traditional chapter you don't.

Plain and simple. BMP focuses more on numbers, while traditional focuses more on brotherhood. You can argue that BMP brings brothers together through sound mind, sound body all day long, but what about pledgeship?

I see a large difference in chapters that are BMP vs traditional. I for one am very proud to be a traditional SigEp. Sure we did some crazy things, but we laugh about them now.

One last things I'd like to say before I go to bed is that what do you do with members that get 1/2 way through the BMP and quit? Well they do know 1/2 the ritual if they made it 1/2 way through. I guarantee you the 12 origional founding fathers would roll over in their grave if they knew how our ritual was being tossed around. This is a very good example of the donkey/carrot on a stick.

We are all brothers, and I love SigEp. I just prefer the traditional way of running things. Don't be scared of me because I'm traditional.

BUNT Any more brain busters?
 

Hey Fergy!!

I agree with Brad......I do think the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they knew some of the things that HQ is doing to our fraternity. Changing ritual, changing insignia, changing the way things have been done for a hundred years. Headquarters saw a problem with the fraternity before BMP was formed and they figured that it was because of pledging. They didnt stop to think that maybe it was individual chapters bringing the whole system down. So they just cut us off like a bad limb and put on a new one....BMP....Problem sovled. I agree 100% with everything that Brad and Mike had to say. Anyways, I'm so proud that I went through as a pledge and was initiated 100% as a brother. I know all of the ritual.....I've made the strongest bonds of my life and I'll never forget my "traditional" memories. Its sad to see the ways of the greatest fraternity change like they have. Its also sad that the fraternity has been split in two by this...and that HQ has pretty much dissowned traditional chapters..This isn't what Carter Ashton Jenkins wanted at all.....In my eyes I see Sigma Phi Epsilon the fraternity and SigEp the business. HQ wants to make money....that's all. They send salesmen to our chapters asking us to become BMP for God sake. I'm a traditional SigEp and damn proud. Dont hate what you dont understand BMP. Its not fair....and another thing...just cause we're trad. doesnt mean we haze!!!! I've also seen that most traditional chapters kick ass o their campuses. I dont want to see this fraternity loose its roots and traditions over money......that would be a really really sad day for SigEp.

For those of you who are posting, are you on your exec boards? Run your recruitments? Chair your Greek Week? Attend Carlsons? Ruck? Applied to Quest to Greece? Thinking of joining a national committee? Because it seems to me that you're awfully good at talking about what you perceive to be wrong, so you should do something about it. I'm curious as to whether or not you've tried to change it, or you just like talking about it. The thing that most people seem to forget is that Headquarters does not run SigEp. SigEps run Headquarters.

And if you have an issue with how something is run, is it more effective to point out shortcomings or to run it yourself?

The only man that keeps you down is you.

Correction.....BMP SigEps run HQ......Oh and also, I am on the exec board at my chapter....I'm the head of it. We also go to all the headquarters activities such as Carlson and Ruck. We're up for a few awards as well. The fact is traditional chapters fall on deaf ears....Hq would like to see us all gone....all BMP chapters.....so thats why we have complaints....not because we haven't tried to voice them otherwise.

Yes, I just served as VP Programming for our chapter. I also attended Conclave in San Antonio this last time. I applied for the Hicks scholarship for most improved GPA, and I am registering for CLA.

Headquarters does not run SigEp? Are you serious? Why do we have RD's that come visit each chapter, and report back to HQ on how we are doing? Why do we have chapters like Texas Upsilon (SMU) that get cleaned out by nationals of their traditional values and changed over to BMP? Is that not nationals running SigEp?

If you have an issue with something, it is good to discuss it with your brothers, and get ideas from everyone. In a traditional system, you rely on your brothers for support, and not focus on just the individual. You must be a product of BMP, or strongly support it or else you would know that our discussion is one of concern.

The only man that keeps me down is me? Thank you for the quote for the day, but I feel just fine about being a traditional SigEp. I don't quite have the time to confront nationals, rally a support group, and change the way the fraternity runs its business. I have school to attend you know. I also serve on the community service chair of the fraternity, and I like to focus my time on those in need.

Good day Steve.

I was just trying to make sure that impassioned speech was accompanied by impassioned action. If you are that upset with HQ, why not call them and voice your concerns? And if you think they wont listen, bear in mind that there is a larger ratio of pledging/traditional chapters represented at HQ than in the rest of the country.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that if you are so sure you're right, do something about it.

We still have our traditional chapter so I am not that worried.

The day that Texas Beta becomes a full BMP chapter will be the day I take action.

Like I said, I could rally up some troops and use conventional warfare, but we would loose many lives, and it would take awhile. I'd rather discuss it over a forum and get on with my life. The world won't cease to turn if SigEp goes completley BMP.

One last thing I was thinking about was our ritual guides. If you say nationals is not in charge of the fraternity then how come our ritual guides have been polluted with BMP "rites of passage" and BMP principles? :rolleyes:

Brad - you're post is not the kind I have a problem with. What I have a problem with is the guys that go on a tirade about how HQ is ruining their lives, yada yada yada, but don't do anything to stop it. I think anything worth complaining about is worth fixing. As for when to take action, if you're that against the BMP, wouldn't waiting for your chapter to change be too late?

I don't think the guides have been "poluted" with BMP - they've just been mixed to refelect the current state of the fraternity. More than 2/3 of the chapters are BMP - so it makes sense to have the literature reflect that. Of course HQ runs the fraternity. But my point is that the fraternity runs HQ.

Regardless of the undergrads ability to vote at conclave, I'm talking about day to day. Craig and Zar and Ryan and John all of those guys are first and foremost SigEps, and always will be. It's not like you turn into a PikA or a TKE when you graduate.