Recognized vs. underground members
 

Many times, if an organization is suspended or loses recognition, it will pledge in new members underground. In fact some organizations (some NIC chapters that I have known) will pledge a certain amount of their new members underground so they don't have to report them to National for insurance reasons (many groups are charged a fee per member).

In both cases these members are not Nationally counted as members even though they have been exposed to the Ritual of the organization. I know one group that has been off campus for years and still uses Ritual initiation . . . even though there may be no Nationally recognized members left.

Would you consider these people to be members of your organization? Would you be comfortable receiving the grip from them or taking part/discussing your Ritual (assuming you knew)?

I was always curious about this question . . .

One of the fraternities on my campus had an underground pledge while I was in school. The difference is, he was recognized by the nationals but not by the school. Our school had a higher GPA requirement than the fraternity did. So he didn't qualify by the school's standards to pledge, but by nationals he did. Of course the nationals didn't make the connection that he was underground.

Now with this example, I have some mixed emotions. First, it would be very dangerous. Here you have a underground member not recognized by the nationals, meaning he/she is not insured. If something would happen to this person, the sorority/fraternity would be highly at risk. As far as considering them my sister, I don't know. It depends I suppose. If they have to fill the same requirements as myself, the I would probably accept them as a type of 'honorary' sister, despite what nationals said, but I would recognize that 'technically' they are not a member.

Its kind of ironic that you brought this subject up. One of my sisters was just telling me about a group that we have here that has underground members that the school doesn't know about. They are a small org, but apparently they have a lot more members than advertised. We also have a another group that was kicked off campus about a decade ago and are not recognized by niether school or nationals, but they still accept members.

The first case is very hush hush. Not very many no about it. And I doubt that these individuals wear their letters in public, since it can't be known that they are members.

In the second case, everyone (except the administration. who probably knows about it but has no proof) knows about them. Although its not very many of them. They wear their letters and it is very visible who their pledges are. They are more accepted because they are seen as a legend.

My question to these individuals (more so in the first case) is that why would you join a sorority/fraternity if you couldn't make it known that you are a member? One of the things I like most about being greek is the pride in your org. It has to be hard to show your pride if your not even supposed to be a member.

I am not sure that I agree with the definition of an underground line.

I was made in a city-wide chapter where the school had no say in anything to do with intake. I am fully recognized by my National office of my sorority. By your definition, my entire chapter is "underground" when in fact, that is not the case.

peace

Underground member? Who would want to be a member not officially recognized? I just don't understand. Having to hide and not being able to wear your letters, not being able to tell anyone, not having any membership card, never being able to be recognized as an alum. I just don't get why anyone would choose that.

And I also don't understand why an organization would choose to get members that way. Is it that they can't find enough qualified members to belong to their organization? And if the chapter is suspended, do they really think they're keeping the chapter alive? If the chapter is reactivated, don't they realize that all those underground members still won't be recognized? Someone help me to understand.

It sounds harsh, but I don't know if I would really consider an uninitiated woman my sister. In my mind, unless nationals gives the okay for you to be initiated, you aren't. You must fulfill ALL the requirements of sisterhood. No half-stepping. Honorary sister? Maybe.

McCoyRed, I don't think anyone would consider your chapter or you to be underground. Since your chapter has no school affiliation, your relationship to any school does not matter.

Sorry, let me clarify:

An underground chapter is one not recognized by its own National's. I have mentioned school recognition before because many Nationals will withdraw a charter if a school withdraws recognition.

since Kappa Sig lost its charter at OSU (during 99-00 school year), it has gone underground...

Underground members can also be people who are gaining membership into a sorority/fraternity that IS recognized by nationals and the school, but do not qualify for membership by the nationals or the school.

Underground members are usually pledged and taught the history and rituals of a sorority in "secret". They may be initiated later, but not if the chapter is suspended. These members know everything about the sorority, but are not members according to the National organization. If there is as function that they must show a membership card, then they won't be admitted.

Really? I thought they were gone completely...are they pledging?

Kappa Sig is kind of wierd because they 1. are not recognized by nationals or by OSU and 2. Lost their house, but at the student involvment fair they walked around with rush 2000 t-shirts on. I don't know how any fraternity could survive at OSU without a house.

I would have a very difficult time 'recognizing' an underground member as a brother - this is hypocrisy against the organization. As members, we pledge to follow the rules and regulations of the order and the institution to which we belong - simply going underground to avoid costs will only make a bad situation worse. What if something happens with an underground member, insurance will not cover it, nor will the national organization assist in legal defense. The chapter will be on their own.

To be a TRUE brother/sister of your organization means to do it the RIGHT way, the way the founders meant it to be - which means to follow the Consititution of your Order. Not doing so is disrespectful, not only to the founding members, but to the greek community at the school, and, ultimately, to the underground members themselves. Who could take pride in a membership they are not legally allowed to enjoy and display with pride?

Bottom line, Don't be a fraud, be a true brother.

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Don't be your brother's keeper; rather, be your brother's Brother.

What? they're wearing the Kappa Sigma letters at a fair after losing their charter?

Unless the national org terminated the MEMBERSHIP of all the individual members, they have every right to wear letters any time they please.

As far as wearing the Rush 2000 shirts, they could have borrowed them from someone...or they might have ordered/paid for them before they lost their charter.

You are right. of course the members can wear the letters. but were they recruiting new members?

Why waste your time to not become a nationally recognized member? That is desparate and sad.

It would be almost like going to college, sitting through everything but never registering as a student. You'd never really graduate to alumni status and could not claim all the benefits doing things the right way provides.

As LXAAlum said so well, being a real member means doing things the right way. Otherwise, what's the point?

To answer the question in the original post, I wouldn't consider someone who went so flagrantly around our organization's requirements a member.

They still have the right to wear their letters anywhere if they are still recongnized as members by their nationals. Even if their charter was pulled. Even rush t shirts that were made before the charter was pulled as was said before.

Hell yeah they are members. Assuming they went through the process correctly. The national organization are nothing more than a recording house of people admitted. If people who went through the ritual pledge new members and perform the rituals properly, the new people are brothers. More than likely the only people who will not recognize them are those of you who did not pledge.

The bottom line is that if you are not recognized by your National office, you are a "ghost". If you are a ghost, you pay no dues, participate in no organizational activities and have no right to "secrets". (I'm not a lawyer, but you also could possibly be sued by claiming membership when you are not ?)

I have to agree with the analogy regarding college. If you never register but sit through all the classes, you will never receive grades and never receive a degree. You may have done all the work but will reap none of the rewards.


just my "2" cents

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mccoyred

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

As far as OSU is concerned I am surprised that the administration OR the IFC(or whatever the governing body is) would allow them to pledge underground. Wouldn't the other Greeks on campus be concerned that a group was mocking them after their representative body no longer recognizes the group?

[This message has been edited by James (edited October 04, 2000).]

James,

That was inpart my question, but I don't think we've established that anybody at OSU is,in fact pledging underground. Are they?

if AKA nationals doesn't recognize you, neither do i. My founders set up our organization with order without order there is confussion and chaos. You could go through the entire process but the sorority is not just about rituals, its about committment and truth, we are a sisterhood yes and also a business, either you are for real or you are not PERIOD. don't fake the funk, don't perp, cause you will be found out. our organizations don't run on air, it takes money and man power to accomplish our goals, these are not selfish organizations, for members to feel good and look cute, they have a purpose, so if you are not futhering the purpose then we don't need you wearing the letters. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

Your founder believed in a pledge process not some MIP stupidness. They would probably relate more with an underground pledgee than some girl who got her letters on a weekend excursion.

1906:
I am not specifically disagreeing with you but how would you know? By your user name you are obviously an Alpha not an AKA so unless you have met any of the women who were founders you really have no clue of what they would want.

You really don't make good sense. I agree that some type of pledge process is important. However, if you can't be a financial member of AKA you serve her no purpose. From what you are saying, we should teach anyone who is willing to get their tails beat our rituals and a t-shirt and call them soror. You can not do anything for an organization if you are not a card carrying, DUES PAYING, memeber!

Just to show you how out of control this ghost thing is, I know some real (on the national roll) Alphas who allowed themselves to be pledged by ghost. These ghost (like dummies) went to the Alpha conference and could not get in. Can you believe that the real Alphas would not go in either!
IMO, if you can not be a financial member recognized by the org then you are really ruining everything that the founders worked hard for. You don't respect the org, you are merely a public donor if you give money and what is the point of wearing a t-shirt for something if you could never go to the door and get in?

I will never understand that mentality that recognizes those that can do nothing for you. That is really just brainwashing. "I pledged and got nothing, you did not and got something so I am going to make you feel unimportant?

Well tell that to the member when you are standing at the window of a conference looking in. If the org was only about t-shirts you, 1906, would be absolutely right, but it is about work and you can't do much without a card.

Because I know that you and your kind will ask, believe it or not "skate". Thank God my big sisters did not believe in brainwashing. There is a productive way to pledge.

[This message has been edited by lluvmook98 (edited October 29, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by lluvmook98 (edited October 30, 2000).]

1. you sound like a darn fool http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif
2. you don't know what my founders would have wanted so you can kill all that noise.
3. i know you were not on line with me so take that weekend excursion and shove it.
4. i do believe in a pledge process don't assume you know what they say http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif
5. again if you are not doing any work for the sorority you are not helping us.
6. moving on