Eliminating Courting
 

So at the University of Missouri, the Panhellenic Association and Interfraternity Council have proposed an amendment to eliminate all the frills and such that go with courting. (There's an article about it...)

http://www.themaneater.com/article.php?id=21155

If passed, GLOs can only court by sending a letter to the fraternity/sorority they are interested in being paired with for an event. (The letter must be written on the organization's letterhead, sent to Greek Life to be reviewed, where it will be rewritten on Greek Life letterhead and then sent to its intended recipient.) An organization can send letters to as many houses as they wish. To create pairings, each GLO will make a list of the top seven sororities/fraternities it wishes to be paired with, then the lists will be compared, and pairings will be made.

On one hand this is good I guess, evens the playing field for smaller houses and eliminates the rivalry and competition from courting... but part of what makes courting so fun is the competition associated with it. (I think.)

Has anyone else's school done something like this... anybody have any opinions?? I'm not really sure I'm convinced yet!! Figured I'd get some input from you guys!!

Re: Eliminating Courting
 

South Carolina always has done the regular, just ask someone to mix/pair up for an event. BUT, I have heard of schools doing a rotation schedule for mixers. I think it's a great idea... You get to know people from ALL organizations. I know we mixed with the same one or two fraternities constantly because they were in our "comfort zone" but if you break out of it you may be surprised with who you meet. Plus, you never know what stereotypes it may break down. I mean, if the "good" sorority all of the sudden has to mix with the "bad" fraternity (not that anyone EVER thinks of sororities or fraternities as "good" or "bad" :rolleyes: ) than maybe someone in the "good" sorority will meet some great guy that she didn't realize was in the "bad" fraternity, and all of the sudden they will get a fairer chance. I know, ever the eternal optimist. *sigh*

I'm not sure I fully understand what "courting" is. Is that the process by which a sorority (or a fraternity) goes to another sorority/fraternity to try to "win the privilege" of being paired w/ them for homecoming?

At my undergrad campus, our pairs were picked out of a hat. The only thing we did w/ them during homecoming week was to build and ride on the float w/ them. This sounds way more elaborate.

ETA: After reading CarolinaDG's post, are you referring to mixers? We would be asked by the fraternity if we wanted to have a mixer w/ them. Usually it would just be their social chair calling our social chair and saying, "Do you wanna' have a mixer this week?" or something like that.

Re: Eliminating Courting
 

If Greek Life is going to review and write letters, why bother going to the trouble to write one to begin with?? That sounds like a lot of extra work all around. Why doesn't GL just create an approved form instead?

Really, I'm referring to both. Homecoming and mixers. Homecoming is a big "scramble" because there are 9 sororities and only 8 fraternities that do it. So, everyone picks their pairs about 8 months ahead of time. I, as vp:Panhellenic, hated this SOOOO much because it was so much back-stabbing, under the table stuff. I just wanted to make sure we were paired up and not the "loser" sorority who had noone to do homecoming with. As far as mixers, it was always our social chair as well. I'm not sure, but you went to Newberry, right? I may be dead wrong on this, but my ex was a KA at Newberry, so we would kind of compare notes about how mixers went. At USC, you don't have time to mix with all 15 of the fraternities, so usually you end up mixing with the same ones. We always mixed with Pi Kapp when I was in school, but there were the other ones that you knew would do a couple of mixers together as well... ATO and ZTA, KA and KD, SAE and Tri-Delt, etc... And then, if the fraternity didn't feel as if you were "good enough" to mix with, they would offer an informal mixer. Basically, a party on their hall that they can invite other girls to, but your whole sorority will be invited. At Newberry, you kind of go through something similar, but on a much smaller scale. Three sororities for three fraternities (I think that's still true!). So you know that the fraternities will probably eventually mix with all the sororities, for the most part. I distinctly remember John having a couple of KD mixers and an Alpha Xi mixer, but I can't remember him going to any of the Tri-Sig ones, so I'm not sure if they mixed or not. I dunno, like I said before, it's very optimistic of me to think that ALL fraternities will mix with ALL sororities, but I know that I had friends in almost all of the fraternities.... It's kind of like joining a sorority... you can like girls in all of the sororities and respect the sorority for being who they are, but still think that YOUR sorority is the best!

I didn't go to Newberry -- I went to Western Carolina.

Sheesh, that sounds like too much trouble. For Homecoming, our pairs were drawn out of a hat, no more than about a month beforehand. At one point, we had twice as many fraternities (6 to 13), so we all got paired w/ two, and one group was paired w/ three. Of course, Homecoming wasn't really a big deal (Greek Week was). The only thing we did w/ our pair was build and ride on the float (as I mentioned above).

Like I also mentioned, our mixers were just the fraternity's social chair calling our (or another sorority's) social chair and asking about a good date for a mixer. Before the rules changed in 2000, we had one mixer a week, sometimes two and once or twice we had three. :D I'll admit it - there were a couple of fraternities that we didn't want to mix with, and we didn't, mainly b/c their social chair was too intimidated to call us to invite us out and also b/c they didn't know any of us. ;) One fraternity (that shall remain nameless) invited us for a mixer, but we went over for dinner instead.

Not all of the sororities had such a busy mixer schedule, b/c, well, they just weren't as popular (like having only one or two mixers a semester). One sorority never got invited for mixers b/c even though the guys liked them and they were popular, the guys complained that they always went home at 12. :D Sometimes girls in other sororities would get jealous when you mixed w/ a particular fraternity b/c that fraternity was thought of as "belonging to" that sorority b/c either a lot of the girls dated the guys, or they were little sisters out there, or they had been mixing or partying out there a lot lately, or whatever.

If we had been invited to the guys' house for an informal mixer and there were girls there that weren't in our sorority, we would have been seriously offended and left. We did show up to one fraternity mixer one time and some of their little sisters were there. We made the guys get them to leave b/c we didn't want them there and we didn't want to be held liable for their actions.

We didn't have pairs for Greek Week either. Greek week was girls vs. girls and boys vs. boys. Usually the sorority that won and the fraternity that won would have a victory party together on Saturday night. We always won, so that was more of the winning fraternity inviting us out to their house for the night.

This courting thing sounds like too much work. ;) Let the boys come to you!

We didn't have "courting"...if I'm not mistaken, I think pairs for Greek Week, Homecoming, etc. were done randomly...but then, I could be wrong. All I know is, we were told who we were paired with at meeting a week or two before the event. :p

Describe courting to me. Do you get presents, or what?

Courting, in the past, has involved...

Boys sending roses and such for holidays/special events. Our current Greek Week partners (Sig Ep!) gave blood for Kappa in our Homecoming blood drive to help us earn more points. We've been sober drivers for houses we're interested in being paired with, as well as brought them breakfast. Signs are made, windows are decorated, banners are hung all to express interest in another house. You go to the other organization's house or events to get to know the members better. We also serenade the house we want... BIG productions that involve renting lights/limos/etc.

That help a little bit?! :) Also, women usually court the men for Greek Week, and the men court the women for Homecoming... thought I'd throw that in there.

And (one more thing... I think someone mentioned it, I don't know, this thread got real long real fast!) we usually wait four years before we pair up with a house again. (Greek Life I believe JUST made it a rule this year, but most of the houses have done it on their own in the past...) For example, when our current seniors were freshmen, they did Homecoming with the men of Delta Upsilon (who won this year!) making us eligible to participate in Homecoming with them again this fall. That way, two houses don't constantly pair up with each other... everyone gets a chance!! :)

I guess part of the reason there is so much competition is because of how big the events we have are... the whole concept of Homecoming was founded at Mizzou so it's a HUGE event for us. We find out our Homecoming pairings in April or May and Homecoming is usually that October... and we start working on it in August... SUCH a big deal and SO stressful, but fun!! :D

When I was at Kentucky - last millennium - I don't recall sororities and fraternities paired up for anything. If there was a competition, then I believe we had separate divisions. One for the sororities and one for the fraternities.

As for mixers, the social chair would call the other social chair and invite. Or call to give a heads up that the chapter is coming over in mass to present an invitation. Usually done with/after a serenade.

That's interesting...by the time I got there, each sorority was paired with one (or more, depending on size) fraternity for Greek events. Like I said, I don't really know how they were chosen, but there was no courting or anything--I don't think the individual groups had much say.

For mixers, usually the fraternity's social chair would just call our social chair. Or, they could get creative like the Fiji's did one time and show up on our doorstep before meeting dressed in island attire and invite us to their luau. That was a fun idea.

penn state calls "courting" askings. it's pretty much a free for all as to who asks who. askings are a ton of fun.

~homecoming in the fall : fraternities ask usually end of march/beginning of april
~greek sing after homecoming in the fall: sororities ask usually end of march/beginning of april
~THON: this is a little different, most THON partners stay together for years, but the askings are usually sometime in march. it alternates every year as to who asks.
~Greek Week in the spring: fraternities ask. my freshman and sophomore years the askings were novemberish, my junior and senior years the askings were in january

here's an example of how askings go for homecoming and greek week.

round one: a fraternity or fraternities will call the sorority president and schedule when to come do the official asking ie before or after chapter one nite. also they let the sorority know some of what they have planned for the whole asking, ie bagels every morning, rides to class, flowers etc. after all the people who have been scheduled to ask your org. have done their skit or whatever, the chapter votes on whether or not to pair with one of the ones who asked or wait til 2nd rounds for someone different to ask.

round 2: goes pretty much the same as round one, but there are less sororities to pick from because some of them have accepted and are doing homecoming with someone who asked them during round one.

open askings: either the sororities or fraternities can ask because they haven't been paired up yet.

it can get really crazy sometimes with the different orgs competing with each other. one time my org competed with 3 other sororities at the same time for the same fraternity to do greek sing with us. it's truely march madness! ;)


we called "mixers" socials and the social chairs handled everything. we usually had socials thursday-saturday nites every week.

even with as many of the fraternities as there are at penn state, you usually wind up doing stuff with the same 5 or 6.

Slight UK hijack. :D

Yeah, I have noticed how it's changed on campus.

Basically, there were two types of events. One type would be for sororities only or for the fraternities only. Examples would be that only sororities participated in Sigma Chi Derby Days while only fraternities participated in y'all's Frat Man's Classic.

Hijack of the hijack: ;) Do y'all still host the Delta Zeta Frat Man's Classic?

The other type of event would be an event that both sororities and fraternities could participate in yet there were no teams. Example would be like Greek Sing. Fraternities and sororities participate but not as teams. Sororities versus sororities and fraternities versus fraternities. And any competition during Homecoming - which really wasn't as big a deal back then - was also separated into one for the fraternities and one for the sororities.

Also, Greek week was made up of various types of events sponsored by a chapter or chapters. Yet again, no teaming up of fraternities and sororities.

End of hijacks... for now. :p

Yes, I think they restarted it the year after I graduated.

Whenever a single sorority hosts an event, like Frat Man's Classic, it's still pretty common for only fraternities to participate, and vice versa. Each fraternity will have a "coach," who is a member of the sorority sponsoring the event.

Most Greek events at UK now, though, are for both fraternities and sororities, and everyone gets paired up. I think it makes it more fun that way. :p

OK, done with the UK hijack for the moment. Proceed. ;)

Homecomming partners are done by the fraternaties serenading the sororities and then the sororities vote on their favorits and put the guys in an order. The sororities get to vote who they are partnered with based on their rank in homecomming points. So the winner gets to vote first for who they are partnered with the next year. There are more sororities than frats, so some how that gets determined as well but i am not sure how. I think this is kinda of fair. I guess i never thought of it till now that there are other ways to do matching.

But i have to say that i love the serenading, Which is all done the same night, i really liked the guys dressing up and comming over and singing songs. We did not get gifts, but we still had a lot of fun. You never knew what the guys were going to do and it was always the funniest thing in the world. I have to say that i like that part best. I mean, homecomming games were fun and all, but i like it when guys work to immpress women.

At UCF--

The social chairmen would coordinate the social calendar of fraternity and sorority socials. It wasn't uncommon for the fraternity to come by and serenade before a highly anticipated social, or to promote a party or event.

Homecoming: Fraternities would arrange to serenade the sororities in the spring time for the following fall's homecoming. These would consist of songs, skits, roses-- each year, it was more elaborate and the week before serenades, we had guys at the house making us breakfast, painting our lion, serenading, bringing gifts, etc.

Greek Week: Pairings were matched out of a hat

ZTAngel, is this still how they're doing homecoming? They threatened for years to make it a random assignment because of the tension from the week before serenades.

back in the day at fl. state, partners for homecoming and greekweek were drawn from a hat. however, once the pairings took place, the fraternity or sorority might go to their partner and serenade them to show that they were excited about the pairing.

At Iowa State, pairings for events decided like this, or at least they used to be:
Fraternities are partnered up for Homecoming and Greek Week, generally one large chapter and one small chapter(s).
Next, depending on the event, that determines who serenades. Fraternities serenade for Homecoming and VEISHEA and sororities serenade for GW and Varieties. (Not as many chapters elect to participate in Varts or VEISHEA so those pairings are generally one fraternity and one sorority.)

Serenades for all events are done in three rounds. For Homecoming and GW, each pairing is allowed to accept two serenades. However, the chapter doing the serenading, can only serenade one group. Then the chapter has to decide between which two groups they want to be partnered with, and the other group gets 'flushed' to the next round. Once a pairing is established, generally the pairing that picked you will 'return serenade.' For the first two rounds, serenades are done. After that, a large chunk of the pairings have been established and from there pairings are done via phone call.

When I was in school, a rule was established that for Greek Week, no pairing could accept a serenade from a sorority pairing that they had done either GW or Homecoming with in the past three years for the first two rounds. This was done in an effort to change pairings up a bit more. There used to be some 'courting' of sorts that was done ahead of time, but not to the tune of $500.

I loved how our serenades worked. It usually sucked trying to get people to participating if you were doing the serenading, but they were lots of fun. Return serenades were fun, too. I don't remember much "courting" going on, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. And I think the mixing worked pretty well with everything but Varts, but since not everyone participates in it, you'd eventually get the same pairings every 2-3 years or so.

I remember being in the Varts office with Opie and Couch during serenades and it was hard for the groups who had been flushed both times. I can't even imagine what GW or Homecoming would be like.

Another thread was started pertaining to this with a different article, which is here:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...012#post993012

I had NO clue that Mizzou was one of the only school in the Big 12 to still do courting in the manner that we do... I figured everyone did it!!

I'm just not sure if this amendment (assuming it gets passed) will even change anything... in the article, they say that people do a lot of the courting under the table and often go over the $500 limit now... so who's going to stop them from doing it if this passes if they can't stop them now??

A question: at schools where there's a pairing system, do sororities ever find themselves paired with a chapter (or two) that is not respectful toward women? Are there situations now and then where a sorority feels its members must be constantly on guard during the time they are paired with and working with a "dangerous" fraternity?

Just to make it clear -- I'm not talking about a so-called top tier sorority getting paired with a so-called lower tier fraternity, or vice versa. I'm thinking of the occasional reference here on GC fraternities that "can't be trusted" (versus the many that can).

There's a lot of distance between a fraternity (or a man, for that matter) that's "not respectful toward women" (i.e. they just act like jerks) and one you feel physically unsafe with. In the case of building a float, doing Greek sing, whatever, most of the activities are in the open so I don't see where there would be a problem.

Yikes, PSUSigKap, things got complicated since my Happy Valley days. But it's probably better - we used to do socials with the same old fraternities all the time, and it was always a battle royale - there were those girls who hung out at the same 2 houses wanted to do everything with them, the social climbers, who focused on "who will help our reputation" and me, who was a little sister at TKE but chased the boys at Skull and Sigma Pi (3 places the ASAs had no interest in going).

I'm sure it's the same at most campuses - the houses the seniors like, the younger girls find uncool, boring, stupid, etc. (and vice versa)

How did you pick who you were going to do THON with? I know some pairs were more or less permanant, but not all.

I've been warned once or twice by certain guys (sometimes even members of the fraternity in question) to make sure I show up to the house with a friend or to find certain guys when I get there to stay safe... but I don't think much of that has to due with the particular fraternity being "dangerous"... some guys are just protective of their female friends... kind of like a big brother! I don't know...

As for a pairing... never experienced that. We get to know our partners so well because we spend so much time at their house pomping and stuff... plus, a lot of time the men are the ones doing the courting towards certain sororities. After you've worked so hard to be paired with a sorority, why ruin it by acting disrespectfully? Fraternity gentlemen are much to smart for that! :)

Ok I am a senior at Mizzou and this is the second time since I've been here that greek life has decided to change the rules about courting.

My freshman year honestly there were rules, but nobody knew them and no one followed them. One house had a LIVE TIGER in their skit, another house rented out a bar and took the fraternity there to perform their skit, one house had cage dancers (girls in their house were the dancers), another house sent strippers to a fraternity house, another house decorated the same fraternity with thongs. It was wild and out of control, and fun to an extent.

You could at this point still table someone on the first night of serenades, so like if 3 houses serenaded you the first night or something, you could put one aside for later, but not eliminate them totally, hard to explain, but they got rid of that.

Now though there is a budget for courting which no one, that I know of anyway, actually follows but the courting is certainly not AS scandalous as it used to be. But still, the sororities just make it less obvious than they used to. Fraternities courting sororities however has never been such a big deal, for whatever reason.

Also if you are serenading someone greek life lets you know who is competing against you and you can choose then if you'd like to go somewhere else.

I don't mind the way it is now, seems to work better than it did freshman year, but I know last year there was a sorority who went to serenade the fraternity behind them and the fraternity's president called the sorority's president and told them to not even bother coming, none of their guys were going to show up for the serenade. With the changed system, if you are only serenaded by one house on the first night of serenades you HAVE to choose that house. This fraternity is one of the larger more popular ones on campus but for some reason no one was going there except for this really small sorority. The guys were pissed and said that if they had to be with them, they just wouldn't show up or help out at all.

That's the only thing I can think of as to why they're changing the system again. But that sorority has since left campus so I don't know why they're doing it now.

Needless to say I am glad I'm graduating b/c this new way sounds really stupid to me, courting is one of the more fun things to do with serenades. :(

I agree... it seems silly to me to change this. In my opinion, there really isn't a problem with "larger" sororities having to compete with "smaller" sororities... because all of the chapters are HUGE, which to me says they'd all have the same (wo)manpower to court, etc. (Smaller fraternities are put into pairings so they can compete with larger houses... so I guess it's not an issue for them.) Plus it's fun!

In on of the articles, they said the changes "are meant to eliminate the “heartbreak” some sororities feel if courting efforts do not pay off."

I think that's kind of ridiculous. My sorority was courting the same fraternity as another sorority, and the fraternity chose the other house over us. Although they are wonderful and amazing guys, we were HARDLY heartbroken over the issue...

woo...none of this stuff going on over here. Unlike the NPC's, our chapters have official Brother/Sister pairings, with the exception of our Alpha Sigma Phi colony. However, these pairings are based only on a historical link between the two that was formed years and years ago, not so much about a modern day relationship between chapters. In most cases, the pairings are good, in some...not so much. But since we don't do any even with our brother fraternity, it works out pretty well. Girls against girls, guys against guys. I can't imagine coming up with 500 bucks to court guys to do homecoming with us....500 bucks would buy a new water heater!

adpiucf: I go to UCF and yes, that's still how things are done here. Serenades are coming up either this Sunday or next, so things are really starting to get crazy! Boys are tagging cars, washing cars, delivering pizzas, etc.

Just a little update... this measure did NOT pass... so courting will continue. I think that's great news, and the only thing I hope is that it will be done a little more respectfully and that panhel and IFC will keep closer tabs on who is spending what, etc.

And because the measure did not pass... we got a wonderful surprise from the AKL house... they got us blue balloons with dark blue ribbons (Kappa colors!) and wrote "AKL loves (your name here)" on them. Every girl in our entire chapter had a balloon with her name on it, and the boys put them ALL in our TV room so we'd see them as soon as we walked in the house for chapter!! :D

Speaking of Big 12 schools, it looks like Kansas State uses a version of random matching that takes into consideration the size of chapters. Presumably this gives the eleven Homecoming groupings approximately equal numbers of people. The pairings for Fall 2005 Kansas State Homecoming are on their Greek Affairs web site:

http://www.ksu.edu./greek/hc_pairings.htm

Worth noting, perhaps: NPHC sororities are included in the groupings, and so is one local women's group.

The overall result is that each "pairing" consists of one or two sororities and two or more fraternities. Not saying this is better or worse than the "courting" system, just different.

Usually we end up in triads because the fraternities outnumber the sororities... and the fraternities are randomly paired in order to come up with similar totals so that no one triad has the advantage of having much more people than another... kind of similar I suppose.

<hijack>

It's funny how many schools lay claim to being the "first" to ever have a homecoming-type event. I know of about 4 universities that SWEAR they were the first ever. Mostly likely the concept took root at all of those schools around the same time.

</hijack>

Haha... yes, and for all I know, Mizzou "founding" Homecoming could be one big lie. But I'm a Greek, and I've lived in Missouri my entire life... so it's been drilled in my head by sisters, alums, etc.

Update, Oct. '05: Missouri Panhellenic Changes "Courting"

Sororities at the University of Missouri have voted to revamp the “courting” process substantially, essentially eliminating the highly competitive previous system, which was described as --

During the courting process, chapters send Interfraternity Council chapters gifts, such as cakes, flowers and pizzas, in hopes of being selected as partners in Greek competitions such as Homecoming and Greek Week. Competition runs high among sororities to win the fraternity of their choice . . . .

According to one of the campus papers, at least some of the fraternities don’t like the changes that Panhellenic has made. Panhellenic apparently was concerned about the degree of competition involved, and when the Interfraternity Council did not agree to proposed changes, Panhellenic decided to make changes itself.

See the article at --

http://www.themaneater.com/article.php?id=22412

Perfect! Good news to hear. It was getting way out of line on two fronts--------money and time.

Guess I have been out of School to long!:(

Used to be that each Org. did their own thing and Floats were fantastic, not drug by a car or pickup truck. But cost has to be a big thing in any Houses budget.

Mizzu always does things differently. Change Arena from a Twit to Mizzu Arena! Damn, a lot of imagination there!:confused:

Courting a Group to be partners with for H C? Wow, I am getting to Mature for this !!!!

As for Mixers or run outs, the social chair got with another social chair and said Hey, want to do a run out?

Everything is so PC!:rolleyes: :confused:

I disagree. I'm saddened that courting is no longer allowed. I feel like some members were very much influenced to vote in favor of the amendment, specifically new members who knew nothing of courting and had no opinion but were asked to vote anyways.

Fraternities are still allowed to court, but it's unfortunate that we can't respond. It's a unique tradition that sororities no longer have... :( Plus, writing letters to fraternities to show that your interested in participating in an event with them has already proven problematic... :rolleyes:

The pulling names out of a hat just is amazing to me. Since there are so many houses at Illinois, having an event with every sorority/fraternity was out of the question. We didn't call it "courting," but serenade week was a HUGE deal when I was there a few short years ago.

Obviously there are some houses that everone wants to have mixers, football block, happy hours, BBQs, or Greek sing with, and therefore don't *need* to put forth as much effort. Some go for it anyway because it's fun! Everyone knew what night was the main sorority serenade night and what evening was for the fraternities, and everyone would be at their houses waiting for the show to begin! The remaining days were for the "courting."

I know that some groups would make dinner announcements to houses that consisted of bringing a big cookie and say, "the men/women of XYZ would like you to consider and vote for us for next sememster pairings." Often houses combined that with skits, Pokey Sticks, singing, dancing, flowers, offer Taxi nights, etc... to get their name out in hopes of getting the votes from the chapter to mix with the next sememster.

I can still picture the fraternity Muppet Show dances, the knock-off of the Chris Farley Chippendale skit, Who Wants to be a Millionare skits, live bands, and milk and cookies with a Dr. Suess book reading. I remember our songs, themes, and dances too.

LOTS of time went into these since it decided who you paired with, which can affect your recruitment in the fall. I can see why Missouri would want the change, but then again, I have some great memories from ours.

At Purdue we did this but called it Butterups

A sorority and fraternity were paired up for an entire football season. We tailgated together

And then you were paired up again in the Spring for Grand Prix Week. Just a week of partying before a "go-cart" race.

There were rules that were "followed" It was my favorite time of year.

Then each house picked 3 houses and rank ordered them. Then whatever matched up they were "buddies"

Re: Eliminating Courting
 

We don't have courting at my current (at least I don't think we do, but I haven't been here long) or my former school, but it sounds fun. I'm sad to hear that they are watering down tradition... even to the point that the letters have to be pre-approved. Thumbs down!