Holding onto houses when chapter is dormant
 

I'm really interested in reading about this since it happens often.

Do fraternities and sororities make good money by renting to the university or other GLOs?

Who takes care of the upkeep and does it make for any tangly risk management issues ever?

-Rudey

Re: Holding onto houses when chapter is dormant
 

Phi Mu chapter houses are owned by individual house corporations. They choose to keep or sell the house when a chapter ceases operation. For example, we still have a house at UCLA and the house corporation rents it out. They make a profit enough that the house now has no mortgage. They maintain the property and have the necessary insurances.

Re: Re: Holding onto houses when chapter is dormant
 

Does the international office get to say anything in regards to selling it or whatnot?

-Rudey

Re: Re: Holding onto houses when chapter is dormant
 

They rent out their house at the UW as well.

Our houses are owned by house corporations. If a chapter closes, the final say is with them. I'd assume that if they think there's a good chance that recolonization could take place within the next few years, they'd keep the house. Otherwise, they might want to get out from under it.

I agree that this will vary greatly depending on the situation, size of the house, whether a mortgage is paid off, etc. Our Chi chapter house at Michigan State was purchased by our IHQ from the House Association and we will hang on to it until we can recolonize. Our Alpha chapter house (Syracuse) is still owned by an AGD group. I know that Chi is being rented out to another sorority but I don't know about Alpha. I think it is decided on a case by case basis.

Dee

Most LXA Chapter Houses are owned by Housing Corporations.

In some cases, LXA has a Group that is called LCAP where Houses were purchased on owned by LCAP.

Some may be sold such as Un. Oo. or kept in trust and rented out such as Un. Ark.

There is financing through LCAP that is worked out via Financial Instituions to keep them intact.

A lot would depend on the viability of the Structure of the building and rentability as it were or the possibility of the Chapter to be re colonized.

Re: Re: Re: Holding onto houses when chapter is dormant
 

The National Housing Committee makes recommendations to the National Council which has considerable influence...but the final say really rests with the owners of the property - the House Corporation.

A lot of HQ's do not hang onto houses.

Owning houses can get extremely expensive. If a chapter is having trouble and folds and they still owe money on their house-then the HQ would have to pay it.

Simply, say the payment is an avg. of 3k a month (and that is extremely low for some multi-million dollar homes), in a year that is 36,000. What if there are 10 houses vacant?

That's 360,000 a year just on paying for the house. No upkeep, no bills, etc.

That is one hell of a commitment and could easily make a HQ go bankrupt in only a few bad years.

This is happening right now at Missouri... the Sig Kap (before that AGD) house is currently vacant, and I suppose their house association is hanging onto it in case of recolonization. (Because the chapter closed so recently, it's still being worked out how often they will be reviewed for recolonization, votes are still being made, etc.)

I know there's a lot of groups interested in trying to get the house though... but I guess that's as not much of an incentive as getting your chapter back.

But if the House Corp owns the house, Nationals is not liable for payment of the mortgage.

I believe that the decision of whether to keep an aging house is becomming more difficult to decide as universities upgrade dorms, etc.

I'm assuming when the corporation is formed, there is language about what should happen with the money if a house is sold right?

This is just interesting for me to read about.

-Rudey

Yes, if the House Assoc is incorporated there should be language as to what to do with profits realized from the sale of the property outlined in the documents of incorporation, or the bylaws of the corp.

Plus the house isn't always vacant. The corp could rent the house out to a sorority or anyone that has the cash. The cost to maintain the house might even drop.

Where is/was the AGD house at MSU located? Because if I am thinking right, your house used to be on Ann Street, right? And if that is the house I am thinking of, I think Alpha Omicron Pi bought that house. They now live there. This is their first year in that house. But I could be greatly mistaken.

Elena

AGDee's a Province Director-Collegians and she's from Michigan so I'm sure she'd know for sure about the Chi chapter house.

I highly doubt that the house could EVER be sold. Emily Helen Butterfield, one of our 11 Founders, was the architect who designed the house (along with the Alpha Chapter house).

There's just too much historical value, and I know that our alums will fight tooth and nail to get Chi Chapter back!

Yes, the house is on Ann St. AOPi is renting it from Alpha Gamma Delta. It's an awesome house! We have an active alumnae chapter in East Lansing and hope to recolonize as soon as the campus can support more groups. I think Alpha Xi Delta has first option to recolonize there though. I'm not positive about which group it is that has first option and I know some groups aren't at Total, so there's no telling when the campus will be able to support it, but we'll be waiting anxiously!

Dee

I didn't know this. Sorry if I stepped on your toe's AGDee.


That is incredibly awesome. I understand why the alums would want to keep it!!

Sorry that I mis-spoke. Being an alum myself, I only know what goes on with my SDT now-a-days, so I am not aware of the housing status of other sororities at MSU. Thanks for letting me know. I misheard one of my AOPi friends. I thought she said that they had bought that house. But alas I was wrong.


Like stated above, sorry if I stepped on your toes. :) :)

Elena

Not at all! I'm sure most think that AOPi bought the house.

I apologize if I sounded harsh. Really, I didn't mean it to come out that way.

I saw a bunch of photos of our early chapters at the Archive Room at last year's Convention, and many of them included the Chi chapter house. I was so sad to hear about its closing a few years back, and I really hope Chi (along with our Alpha) recolonizes soon. If Alpha Beta (UofM) can do it, I know we can too!

Emily Helen Butterfield was a woman who wore many hats. She was a prized architect, an expert on heraldry, and wrote a significant amount of our Ritual...I'm surprised AGD doesn't hang on to EVERYTHING that touched her hands!

hijack
OohTeenyWahine, you weren't harsh. You were just letting me know that AGDee would be one to know the status of the house. I am still learning about members of GC. I was just apologizing for being uninformed :) The house is nice from the outside. I have never been inside, but I would love to see the inside to see the beauty in there too :) I might just call up my friend and ask to see the house...if we can find a common time to get together that is.

end hijack

My apologies to Rudey that this has gone a bit off topic. Now back to the regularly scheduled thread :-)

Informative reading. Never thought I'd say this, but thanks Rudey for the thread topic. :D

I was pointing out if the HQ owned the house. I believe that the Sig Eps have it so that their nationals run their houses. I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading that somewhere.

Fifty, Sixty years ago a lot of HQs owned chapter houses. It got to the point were the cost of running them was going to bankrupt a few nationals. I know that KA had a problem with this a few decades ago.

It's a great idea, but a huge risk.

My example was definitly on the cheap side. When you have 4 million dollar homes, the cost is a lot higher.

Haha. We had a religious group inquire about renting a house on fraternity row. Since we had a few chapters get suspended recently, they thought it would be easy to walk in and just buy out a house. There are 2 problems with that
--They want to do this use the location to minister to the fraternities. I am sure that would be very successful:rolleyes:
--Also the University has a clause that the land be used for fraternitiy houses. A non-affiliated group could not live in any of the houses.

We have had NPHC groups buy houses from disolved IFC/NPC groups. It is a nice arrangement. It allows for some interaction between councils that might not have happened otherwise. Right now the Alpha Phi Alpha's and the Kappa Alpha Psi's are considering renting a house together on Fraternity Row.

Rudey Excellent question, makes a lot of people think!:)

How many Alums or even Atives know the answer to the question You asked. Actually damn few!:(

House Corporations who Own the Property are the deciding factors. Yes, and I am a Member of My Houseing Corp. We are the Elected Deciders of what will happen with said Property. All Members are exfacto Members, but to damn few really care.:confused:

So as I mentioned earlier, LXA has Group that is a psuedo part of LXA and they have purchased Some Houses and have rented them out until a rechartering.

Sometimes the property has been sold. It is by School to School decision.

Although ZTA does not currently have a chapter at SMU, we still own a house there and have been renting it out as a Panhellenic house.

and as larue knows, some zta houses/lodges/suites are owned by our national housing corporation and others are owned by local housing corporations.

Yep. The SMU house is owned by a local house corporation.