Is the World ready
 

For a pope of color? There has been a lot of speculation lately that when the cardinals go into the conclave, there is a chance they will pick a pope from a third world country. One of the "front runners" they reporters have said is the cardinal from Nigeria who was great friends with the Pope. Do you think it will make a difference?

Funny, I heard that a Latin American pope was a high likelihood because Latin America remains one of, if not the, Catholic Church stronghold.

IMO, I think a Latino pope is much more likely than a Pope of African descent. However, I am not Catholic, so this is pretty much an outsider looking in. But I do believe, as with most things the closer you are to white, the righter the world thinks you are.

^^^Agreed.

From some accounts, the next Pope will be like the late JPII when he became Pope, around 65 or so AND white.

I am Catholic, and I agree with you on what you have said.

Pope John Paul II was 58 when he became the Pope in 1978.

Last night I watched 60 Minutes about the Pope and his life and possible replacement. It is entirely possible that someone from Africa or Latin America could become the next Pope. When asked about the possible negative reactions Catholics could have to a Pope who is not white, Fr. Thomas Reese responded.

"Well, I mean, if somebody’s gonna lose – leave the church because we have a black pope, in my opinion, they should have left the church years ago,� says Reese.

I couldn't agree more. It wouldn't surprise me if the next Pope were a man of color. My priests have been Irish, Italian, Sri Lankan, Latino, as well as American born. The Roman Catholic Church is worldwide and diverse.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in685130.shtml

It was reported on 60 minutes that he was 65. That dayum CBS news...

I only know that because I helped change the announcement board at church on Sunday and wrote Pope John Paul II 1920-2005. I can remember when he became the Pope in 1978.

It's weird. 65 sounds old, but a 65 year old could live another 20 years or more.

That was the sentiment on 60 minutes. Those interviewed and Mr. Safer (sp) discussed if the next Pope would be someone "Young" (30s,40s, 50s). One priest said that since medical technology has advanced that someone 65 or so COULD serve for 20 years or more. Then, there was discussion if the "church" would impose term limits.

:confused:

I, too am not Catholic, I'm just looking in from the outside.

It's going to be interesting. I vaguely remember the passing of the other Pope, as you have stated in '78. I was 6 years old. I was kind of :mad: that the services were on a Saturday morning. I missed my seeing my Saturday AM shows: cartoons, Fat Albert, and American Bandstand. :o

LOL. I felt the same way when they did the Watergate coverage.

Back to the Papal selection, I feel that almost anything is possible. I remember reading many years ago that one of the Pope Gregorys (sp?) was actually from Africa. I do realize that this wasn't recent because PJPII was the first non-Italian Pope in more than 450 years.

I do agree that the next Pope will be similar to PJPII. After all, it was he who appointed most of these Cardinals and he made sure that they were traditionalists too. I don't see a Vatican III on the horizon with this bunch. Only 3 of the 117 eligible to vote were Cardinals when PJPII was selected. PJPII also created the most diverse College of Cardinals in history. Almost half of the College is now represented by Cardinals not from Europe.

The only Cardinals that I heard may be excluded, per MSNBC commentators, are Americans. It is felt that America is too powerful and to have an American Pope would be too much. (It sort of reminded me of the negatives of having a Roman Catholic U.S. President. Kennedy was supposed to be the Pope's sock puppet.)

Regarding term limits, it's interesting that that was mentioned. Bishops have to retire after a certain age and just one factor of the priest shortage. I don't know if I am for the Pope having a term limit. I really need to think about that.

I kind of chuckled when the priest interviewed mentioned the late Pope JPIIs stance on celibacy. The priest insisted that if celibacy (instead of birth control) continued to exist, then Priests would ultimately fail to exist. LOL

It is quite possible that our next pope be of African descent. I think that it will show the world that our church is accepting of all nationalities.
As far as term limits are concerned, though they can't really impose them, they are looking to appoint older men to the papacy. That way, the older you are, the less time you will be able to hold down the papacy. Thus, more people will have the opportunity to become pope.

The only problem that I have with it is that there will be greater turnover. Different people will have different ideas or directions that they want to lead the church in and this can create problems. We'll just have to see how this turns out.

I think the next pope is going to be Latin American. A good majority of Latin America is Roman Catholic and agreed with many PJPII stances (like abortion, state of morality etc etc ). In Mexico alone, 90% of the pop. is RC.

But then again, who knows! either way, whoever gets the job is gonna have a hell of a time winning over the flock given JPII popularity.

I watched MSN and they said that the Pope was 58 when he became PJPII. :confused: :confused:

hahahahahahaha, I never in my life thought I would see the words "Pope" and "sock puppet" in the same sentence. Thanks for making me smile hon. :)

My little said that she talked to several priests today (they were coming in to her craft store to buy black fabric to drape the doors with) and apparently one of them told her the frontrunner is a cardinal from Germany.

I still don't understand why the cardinals over age 80 aren't allowed to vote. Is it because it's assumed they won't be around for the majority of the pope's reign or is it because it's assumed they're senile? Or something else entirely? Either way, I don't think it's fair.

Cardinals have to term limit as well. I forget what age it is, but I know our cardinal had to step down last year....for soem reason the age 71 or 73 is coming to mind.

Yup he was, and he was the youngest Pope if I remember correctly.

Even if the new Pope is the candidate from Nigeria, he will not be the first Pope of African heritage. There have been 3 other Popes in history that were of an African ethnicity. I guess no one wants to bring that up. (the media I mean)

They were Saint Victor I, Saint Gelalius I and Saint Miliades I.

I think it's because they have to step down at either age 71 or 73...oh hell it may be age 70. So even though at age 80 they are still a cardinal they don't have an archdiocese thgat they are running because they have to step down....or retire as they call it.

Yes you are correct that there have been 3 popes of color...but hell look how long agon that was....what was this 450 A.D....people don't even ever want to remember that.

Oh, OK. That makes sense. Thanks! :)

By news accounts and the fact that I work for a Catholic organization, all cardinals must use discretion. You cannot put yourself out their campaigning for the position. Also, because during the conclave they have to state what characteristics they are looking for in a new leader, you can't really say who has the inside track on the papacy hence the phrase "Come into conclave a pope, leave a cardinal". But could someone help me out on exactly who gets a cardinal? We have Francis Cardinal George here in Chicago, and I found out the U.S. only have 11 eligible cardinals. Do they have a specific amount of the U.S. that they cover or what? I thought cardinals were sort of set up like governors, one for each state or something. Please let me know.

Re: Is the World ready
 

Although I'm not Catholic, I guess that I would want for the Cardinals to vote for whoever they really thought was the best candidate, regardless of color. It does not seem that race should be a factor when deciding someone who is supposed to be holy, etc.

SC

Re: Is the World ready
 

Although I'm not Catholic, I guess that I would want for the Cardinals to vote for whoever they really thought was the best candidate, regardless of color. It does not seem that race should be a factor when deciding someone who is supposed to be holy, etc. I don't think that it should be a move to "make a statement or to show the world anything." I think they should just pick the person that they think has been touched (or whatever the criteria is).

SC

Oh yeah...definitely eons ago, but I just thought it was interesting. Folks tripping about a black Pope, but it's already been done, not once but 3 times. I am not Catholic, and I had no idea there was a black Pope, so I was totally surprised when I found out this information.

Let's save THAT debate for another day... lol
 

Well, folks don't even want to remember that Jesus was... aahhhh forgetaboutit! :o :D

From what I know Bishops have a retirement age of 75 and submit a letter of retirement. The Pope can accept or decline. He declined John Cardinal O'Connor's offer to retire when he turned 75.

I found an article about a recent elevation of Cardinals if anyone is interested.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/67/story_6778_1.html

Lets see... off the top of my head I know of only three Popes from Africa and refered to as black in the cronicles:
Pope St. Vincent (around 200 AD)
Pope St. Melchiades (around 300 AD)
Pope St. Gelasius (around 400 AD)

Those medevalist and classical courses showing again :rolleyes:

*Unfortunately there are no known visual representations of these popes

Pretty much nailed it. :D

Here's some more information on these three, courtesy of the National Black Catholic Congress:

http://www.nbccongress.org/black-cat...ican-popes.asp

(If you're really into history, don't miss the listings of Black martyrs and saints.)

--add

I don't know... I found their listing of "black" saints to be a little lacking - skipped over quite a few actually.

St. Maurice for example:
http://www.stmaryofegypt.net/saints_maurice.shtml

This website has a greater listing (although a little sketchy with some facts):
http://our.homewithgod.com/fdrennen/Black_saints.htm

I think what you're seeing is the difference between an Eastern Orthodox church (St Mary of Egypt) and a Roman Catholic organization. They list their saints differently.

NBD - it's all great stuff for the history geeks. :p

--add

Re: Let's save THAT debate for another day... lol
 

Now soror, you *know* that you're trying to have people hunting you down right? LOL Proceed with caution...LOL :D

While St. Maurice may be given a more presigous place in the Eastern Orthodox context I don't see why the NBC left him of the list... after all he is a pretty important saint in the scheme of things (come on the guy is one of Austria's parton saints)..

Although I do find it interesting that he is depicted as 'white' more often than not by the artists... I guess it is a early case of "white-washing".

Quick bio:
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintm32.htm


Back to the topic at hand... I think that Cardinal Francis Arinze is a top contender for the Papacy - he is a "peace-maker", having been appointed as the laison for Vatican dealings with other religions; he was a confidant of JP2; he was a strong supporter of JP2's policies and doctrines (even helped write up a few); and finally he'd help strengthen the growth of the Chruch in Africa.

I'm suprised at the open talk of creating term limits on the papacy. While we all realize the political aspect of the conclave, the throne of peter is supposed to be occupied by God's rep on earth. You face the possibility of a major schism if one were to retire and a new one elected. After all, who is to say the first retired of his own accord? Then who can speak ex cathedra? I'd be floored if it ever happened.

The positive aspect of a African pope would be the ability to create more adherence in Africa to major tenents of the Church.

Let me begin this by saying that I don't want to engage in any type of debate about Catholicism and don't mean to disrepect the Catholic faith or followers of the faith in any way.

I've been tripping a bit over the attention that the Pope has received and the coverage in the news. I saw people literally sleeping for days in front of his residence when he was ill and then the swarms of followers after is death.

Here's my issue....I have an issue with worshipping a MAN (or woman, or whatever you want to call it). To my knowledge there is nothing biblical about the term Pope. Please correct me if I am wrong. However, the terms Pope and Cardinal are terms and offices created by MAN. It's not BIBLE. The only recognized individuals in the church are Pastors and Deacons. I can find the scripture if I need to.

Now I would cry if something happened to my Pastor. I am saddened by the Pope's death, but I know of people who have been unable to WORK because of it.

Again, forgive me if I have been unsensitive to Catholicism. I spent Preschool thru 8th grade is a Catholic school, so I understand some of the traditions. I am a Christian and have been raised in the Baptist faith.

Thanks for the links, RA! Another history geek here too.
:p

Biblically speaking the foundation of the Papal office comes from the "That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church" (Matthew 16:13-20; Mark 8:27-30; Luke 9:18-21) - which is inscribed in Latin above the enterance to St. Peter's Basilica (which you now have a great chance of seeing on TV).

Now the Pope is actually the Bishop of Rome, the "Holy See" or primary church of the Roman Catholic Church... the term Pope is taken from the Ecclesiastical Latin (derived from both Classical Latin and Greek) ipapas meaning Father; hence the Pope being the Father of the Church, in the patriarichal sense.

Ok, I just got the correct age that a cardinal has to step down from running an archdiocese is 80. So the cardinal that we had here stepped down and a new one was appointed that now gets to go to Vatican to vote, I know our old cardinal is like damn I missed this by a few months.

Prayerful, I'm Catholic and believe that most people are mourning the death of the Head of the Church. They are not worshipping the Pope. As Catholic, we don't worship people. In the Catholic religion our belief is that Pope is infallible and is the representative of our faith on earth.

Everything nowadays is blown out of the proportion in the media. This is a big deal because he's been Pope for so long. Most popes last an average of like 10 years. He's been so influential because he's been in the role for so long.

Hero worship is reserved for people who think Elvis is still alive LOL!

Someone else made a comment about the Pope retiring. Papal authority is a LIFETIME GIG. It's not over till you take your last breath.

There's never going to be an American pope because the Catholics over here aren't holy enough (I say that in all seriousness)

Good post. ITA.

And I DEFINITELY agree that there will never be an American pope. Catholics here don't adhere to the teachings of the church like we should. We allow things of the world to overshadow the Church's teachings. I can say that I am guilty of this at times, but I am praying and striving to be a better Catholic. Pope John Paul II set a wonderful example of showing us that his faith was still solid through all of his public suffering. The next pope will have a tough act to follow....

Breaking News: A new Pope has been elected. Who is he?