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-   -   Deferred Rush...I need the bad side (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=64595)

AWSPE 03-23-2005 07:01 PM

Deferred Rush...I need the bad side
 
Quick summary. I joined 3.5 years ago as a fall freshmen. Love every minute of my fraternity. I've been VP Communications, VP Programming, and President.

Just last year, campus administration decided to punish the fraternities, not sororities or greek life, by imposing deferred rush. Our rush numbers were an average of 20-25 signed bids per year with the majority in the fall. This number dropped drastically during this past year of deferred rush to only 8 total. This is not just with my organization, every fraternity is struggling and IFC is pushing hard for traditional recruitment.

The bad - Our Dean of Students announced that he has no plans to lift the deferment at this time. My class of 15 is graduating and will nearly cut the chapter in half. His logic is "that as greeks we are not living up to the standards that are for us". I see the problem being no clear standards. I was never told these if they were developed.

What I am asking for - Give me some concrete reasons/arguements I can use to fight this from happening. I fear that administration is trying to do away with fraternities even though we have put in hundreds of service hours, we personally raised our gpa from 2.504 to 3.1 in one year to avoid this again, and raise thousands of dollars for charity. I'm at wits end on what it is they want from us.

So if anyone has suggestions on getting IFC out of deferred rush it is much appreciated.

TSteven 03-23-2005 09:17 PM

First - contact your inter/national HQ for help and support.

Next, NIC members are opposed to a deferred rush and support year round recruitment. If your fraternity is an NIC member, then perhaps your IFC rep can present this to your campus IFC and get them on board as well. Or if you feel inclined, contact the other chapter's HQ to let them at least know what is happening on your campus and get their help.

Here is the NIC's position on open recruitment.

From NIC

Quote:

Open Recruitment

Host institution will support open recruitment and will not prohibit any male enrolled as a full time student in good standing from participating in rush recruitment activities and joining an NIC member fraternity. Host institution will not prohibit NIC member fraternity from recruiting/rushing male students on campus.
Good luck.

TSteven 03-23-2005 09:20 PM

I should have added that instead of going against deferred rush, you should present a positive spin on why y'all should be allowed to rush in the fall. i.e. Freedom to Associate and an NIC Standard.

AWSPE 03-23-2005 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TSteven
I should have added that instead of going against deferred rush, you should present a positive spin on why y'all should be allowed to rush in the fall. i.e. Freedom to Associate and an NIC Standard.
Very good point. Also thank you for the above information. I failed to mention before that I am a SigEp and yes we are NIC affiliated. And on a national HQ note, a rep from our nationals is actually in the house as I type. I will get to gettin' on this.

WLFEO 03-24-2005 12:46 AM

How about this argument---- Even though you may not be officially recruiting until spring, you have to spend the whole fall semester informally recruiting or really getting PR/your name out there. You could be using that time for more resourceful projects or studying. It also puts added time and pressure to PNMs (or whatever they're called in the NIC world) to have that whole first semester to be "courted" by all the fraternities. It takes time away from studies, etc. for both the Greek members and the PNMs.

Here's what my NPC Greenbook says about fall formal recruitment. I am not going to type it all out but I'm looking at the 13th addition, pages 64 and 65. Here's a summary of why NPC recommends early fall formal recruitment:

1. Greek programs emphasize academic, social, cultural, spiritual, and service aspects- the earlier the student has an opportunity to participate, the better.

2. Helps the new student adjust to college and make friends quickly

3. Opinions about different chapters based on rumors is reduced

4. Students have better adjustment to college- they feel they belong, feel supported, etc.

5. They settle down to serious studies earlier- chapter's scholarship program helps them in the fall semester

6. More opportunity for leadership

7. "When membership recruitment is deferred, recruitment planning activities are always in the background, and tensions in anticipation of membership recruitment are prolonged, disrupting the academic adjustment of all students."

There are a couple more- I don't know much about men's GLOs but those arguments seem to make sense for both NPC and IFC groups.

PhoenixAzul 03-24-2005 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WLFEO
How about this argument---- Even though you may not be officially recruiting until spring, you have to spend the whole fall semester informally recruiting or really getting PR/your name out there. You could be using that time for more resourceful projects or studying. It also puts added time and pressure to PNMs (or whatever they're called in the NIC world) to have that whole first semester to be "courted" by all the fraternities. It takes time away from studies, etc. for both the Greek members and the PNMs.

That is a great argument!!! Even though I come from a place that uses deferred recruitment...we run on quarters, not semesters, and the whole "it's the way we've always done it" thing. I agree that on some campuses, fall recruitment works best.

SmartBlondeGPhB 03-24-2005 01:18 AM

We've had deferred for years for both men and women and it doesn't seem to have hurt.

AWSPE 03-24-2005 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SmartBlondeGPhB
We've had deferred for years for both men and women and it doesn't seem to have hurt.
No offense but thats not exactly what I was looking for. Try to keep things on topic here with advice on ways to get back our regular schedule. Because in our example, deferred is going to eliminate fraternities.

AGDee 03-24-2005 01:48 AM

If you don't succeed in changing the administration's position though, you will need to adjust how you think of things. You can plan on a new member group in the fall being mainly sophomores or juniors and then focus on freshmen in the winter. You can think of new ways to meet potential members such as offering tutoring services to freshmen. Don't just accept that it will destroy your system if they don't budge! You can find ways to make it work for you. I think that how well deferred recruitment depends on a lot of thing, but the biggest issues on some of the campuses that I assist with are housing and finances. You have to plan to fill your house with men who will be juniors and seniors the following year rather than with sophomores, since they won't be initiated until housing contracts are signed. I would definitely do all the things that others have suggested to try to get things changed, but simultaneously start planning for a different way of doing business, just in case.

Dee

33girl 03-24-2005 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AWSPE
No offense but thats not exactly what I was looking for. Try to keep things on topic here with advice on ways to get back our regular schedule. Because in our example, deferred is going to eliminate fraternities.
Umm, chill.

Deferred rush will not eliminate fraternities unless you convince yourself it will.

Are you allowed to talk to freshmen in the fall? Are you allowed to invite them to hang out with you in a non rush party atmosphere? Look at it this way: you have a whole extra semester to get to know people, rather than giving a bid to some guy you have known for two days. You don't have to worry about giving a bid to someone who really shouldn't be in college and will flunk out after the first semester. It will probably cut down on giving bids to people who aren't truly interested and drop out or are crappy members. You said you had 20-25 signed bids - how many of those men finished pledging? How many of them stayed active throughout their college career? This cuts both ways of course, the rushees have a whole semester to get to know you. So you have to be sure that your brotherhood is showing throughout the fall semester.

Use the fall to give bids to sophomores and other upperclassment you've gotten to know who might be interested. Rushee does not equal freshman.

There shouldn't be a "courting" process - you should be interacting with men on a normal, friend to friend basis. You should use that semester to make friends with people and get to a point where giving them a bid is just a formality. Recruitment is supposed to be 24/7/365 - not 2 weeks where you put on your best face and forget about it otherwise. That model is outdated and even the sororities are starting to realize it.

It isn't right for you to be asked to "live up to standards" without being told what those standards are - but things where the school develops a set of standards that are uniformly for all GLOs can be disastrous. Show your Dean what your national GLO's standards are, and how you are living up to them

Firehouse 03-24-2005 02:49 AM

This is important: Is yours a public, or a private school?

AWSPE 03-24-2005 03:28 AM

Public school. The Greek system here is weak, about 2-4%. There's 6 IFC fraternities. And again please please stay on topic. I know how deferred rush works and how to 'hypothetically' do it. Problem is that students here have a tendancy to go home for the weekends their first semester cuz its kind of a boring school (if you arent involved in something, like greek life). We've been through one year of the deferred and its horrible here. IFC took 16 ppl total all year over 6 fraternities.

Also, for those not familiar with my chapter, we are a non-pledging fraternity (Sigma Phi Epsilon Balanced Man Program). So when you ask how many made it thru/are still in of my original class of 19 we have 15. Not really bad considering nearly 4 years later.

So please again, help with ideas of how to rid the deferred versus embracing it.

Firehouse 03-24-2005 09:30 AM

If yours is a public school, the Dean of Students is not allowed to impose a restrictive system on you. Consult a civil rights attorney. The Dean may be personally liable for economic damages suffered by the chapters. Too often, fraternities simply do what they're told without any knowledge of their rights. This is not theory; it's case law. You're trying to cooperate and give them what they want; sounds like what they want is to hurt you. Consult a good lawyer; you can spook them right back.

AWSPE 03-24-2005 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Firehouse
If yours is a public school, the Dean of Students is not allowed to impose a restrictive system on you. Consult a civil rights attorney. The Dean may be personally liable for economic damages suffered by the chapters. Too often, fraternities simply do what they're told without any knowledge of their rights. This is not theory; it's case law. You're trying to cooperate and give them what they want; sounds like what they want is to hurt you. Consult a good lawyer; you can spook them right back.
Firehouse - great news! thanks a ton. Probably going to talk to our advisor who I believe has practiced law and currently teaches criminal justice here. If anything he can refer me to someone.

WLFEO 03-24-2005 01:46 PM

I think that's true, Firehouse! I believe I just read something about that in Fraternal Law. Have you seen that, AWSPE? Your national office gets it, I bet. It's a 4-5 page publication put out by a law firm that covers the law as it relates to Greeks.

Too bad I always throw mine out after reading it or I would send it to you. Maybe it's on the internet somewhere???

I'll try to dig through my files to see if I have any back copies......

AWSPE 03-24-2005 01:49 PM

Another quick question...can the Dean of Students at a public school decide if there is a Greek system or not?

AWSPE 03-24-2005 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WLFEO
I think that's true, Firehouse! I believe I just read something about that in Fraternal Law. Have you seen that, AWSPE? Your national office gets it, I bet. It's a 4-5 page publication put out by a law firm that covers the law as it relates to Greeks.

Too bad I always throw mine out after reading it or I would send it to you. Maybe it's on the internet somewhere???

I'll try to dig through my files to see if I have any back copies......

.

I will see if i cant find it on my national website

Firehouse 03-24-2005 03:49 PM

To answer your question: No. Not the Dean, nor anyone can tell you with whom you may or may not associate. If your fraternity wants to establish a chapter, the University is forbidden by law from interfering. Of course Universities interfere all the time, depending on the liklihood that students can be bullied and don't know their rights. The Freedom of Association Act was passed by Congress in 1996, primarily as a reaction against overbearing bullies who are college administrators. They cannot: prevent you from establishing a chapter, enforce "certification standards" on you, and your speech is absolutely protected. However...it's never a good idea to make enemies where none are wanted, so it's best to obey the law and be nice. Your civil rights attorney should meet with the University Counsel (not the Dean) and/or perhaps the University President. The Dean sounds like a self-important fop.

adpiucf 03-24-2005 03:59 PM

Rather than trying to fight the university on every initiative they introduce-- remember, they're trying to keep the student body balanced and healthy-- why not form a Greek panel that works with the dean and his office to communicate ideas and educate fellow Greeks on the dean's mission and strategic plan for student activties.

Trying to understand where he's coming from and communicating that you understand him will help your case-- and open him to the possibility of understanding you.

The dean isn't making arbitrary decisions to run your chapter into the ground-- he is looking out for the best interests of the students. So go to him as a student group, and get to know where he's coming from. Invite him into a dialogue. When you make allies, your allies protect your interests.

Building this relationship takes time. But ultimately, when you go through these channels, you will earn respect and the right to be heard-- which means you have the opportunity to present your case and for your goal to succeed.

ETA: The alternative is to make a loud fuss, protest and make your organization appear to be a bunch of whiners-- generating negative publicity and portraying Greeks in the media once more as whining children. Go into this with the intention that you want to grow your negotiation skills-- something that will be useful once college is a fondly fading memory.

33girl 03-24-2005 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AWSPE
Another quick question...can the Dean of Students at a public school decide if there is a Greek system or not?
No, but they can choose to not recognize it, and some GLOs will not colonize or keep chapters open at a school where they are not recognized.

AWSPE 03-24-2005 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by adpiucf
Rather than trying to fight the university on every initiative they introduce-- remember, they're trying to keep the student body balanced and healthy-- why not form a Greek panel that works with the dean and his office to communicate ideas and educate fellow Greeks on the dean's mission and strategic plan for student activties.

Trying to understand where he's coming from and communicating that you understand him will help your case-- and open him to the possibility of understanding you.

The dean isn't making arbitrary decisions to run your chapter into the ground-- he is looking out for the best interests of the students. So go to him as a student group, and get to know where he's coming from. Invite him into a dialogue. When you make allies, your allies protect your interests.

Building this relationship takes time. But ultimately, when you go through these channels, you will earn respect and the right to be heard-- which means you have the opportunity to present your case and for your goal to succeed.

ETA: The alternative is to make a loud fuss, protest and make your organization appear to be a bunch of whiners-- generating negative publicity and portraying Greeks in the media once more as whining children. Go into this with the intention that you want to grow your negotiation skills-- something that will be useful once college is a fondly fading memory.

No he is trying to kill it. He is strongly against the greek system. Maybe it is different in your situation but not here.

Also I contacted Judge Mitch Crane, a renouned fraternal law expert, who happens to be an alum of Sigma Phi Epsilon. Here is what he typed:

my question:
Brother Crane, I found your contact on your website after searching
for fraternal law on the internet. My chapter, Michigan Kappa, and
actually the entire Greek system here at Grand Valley State University
could use a little bit of clarification on some laws.

The Dean of Students has already imposed on year of deferred rush
which has drastically affected the membership throughout the system.
This was done as a punishment because they feel as if we are not
meeting expectations. Well, rumor of another deferred rush is in the
mix with IFC. We are a public school and from what I have heard a
deferred rush violates a civil law.

Can you please offer any advice to me and my chapter so that it can be
presented at IFC. I am a graduating senior, previous president, and
it would pain me to see this chapter fall to the wayside of
administration

His response
Brother Wild:

There are many incorrect perceptions as to what a public institution can and cannot do.

The US Supreme Court established fifty years ago the Freedom of Association. It cam from a realistic understanding that the basic right of Free Speech and to Assemble could not operate without a right to associate.

This basically means that a public institution cannot prohibit the right of students to associate with whom they please. They also cannot refuse to "recognize" an organization merely because they do not like it or agree with its purposes.

HOWEVER, fraternities and sororities have been given special privileges by congress-including the right to maintain a single-sex status. These protections come because it was recognized that fraternal organizations had greater purposes, standards, etc.

In order to keep these rights there is an expectation that we keep what makes us special- developing leaders, service, ritual, etc...

Public institutions have the right to set reasonable standards for recognition, etc. If it can be shown that those we rush ( freshmen ) do poorly academically, are prone to risk management violations or violations of law, etc...there is nothing that would prevent a public institution from deferring that rushing.

Of course, they cannot defer rush for all just because some are a problem. The more prudent course would be to defer rush for those chapters that fall below minimum standards and allow the others to rush as usual.

I hope that helps clarify what I believe is the current law.

Mitch Crane

33girl 03-24-2005 07:36 PM

Do the sororities have deferred rush?

If not, it would be a great reverse discrimination case.

AWSPE 03-24-2005 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 33girl
Do the sororities have deferred rush?

If not, it would be a great reverse discrimination case.

No they do not. And that is exactly what I said last year but IFC dropped the ball and never brought out that arguement.

PsychTau2 03-24-2005 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AWSPE
No he is trying to kill it. He is strongly against the greek system. Maybe it is different in your situation but not here.
I'd make DARN sure the Greeks didn't give him a reason to kill it. Don't be/act stupid.




Quote:

This basically means that a public institution cannot prohibit the right of students to associate with whom they please. They also cannot refuse to "recognize" an organization merely because they do not like it or agree with its purposes.
Keep in mind that you can associate without having Greek letters. I tell struggling chapters (who want to do nothing but hang out and drink together) that a charter and a letter shirt aren't required to "hang out and drink".

Quote:

HOWEVER, fraternities and sororities have been given special privileges by congress-including the right to maintain a single-sex status. These protections come because it was recognized that fraternal organizations had greater purposes, standards, etc.

In order to keep these rights there is an expectation that we keep what makes us special- developing leaders, service, ritual, etc...

Public institutions have the right to set reasonable standards for recognition, etc. If it can be shown that those we rush ( freshmen ) do poorly academically, are prone to risk management violations or violations of law, etc...there is nothing that would prevent a public institution from deferring that rushing.

And therin lies your challenge. Prove that it isn't detrimental to freshmen at your school to join in their first semester (the "national" statistics aren't going to amount to a hill of beans at your school if your behaviors/records aren't consistent with what the statistics say). That proof comes not only from grades, but from disciplinary records as well. If freshmen are getting alcohol violations after coming home from a fraternity party...that's not going to help you out any.
As far as what your organizations can do to regain 1st semester recruitment, you mentioned in the beginning that the Dean's reasoning was because the fraternities aren't living up to their standards, yet you feel as though there are no clear standards.

Sit down with him/her and clarify those standards. Then live up to them.

This is where the 5 Star programs come into play. IF the expectations listed in them are fair, they are a great tool for assessing the state of the chapters and looking at what needs improving for each chapter. (Yes, I know Delaware's program is kinda harsh, but you don't have to use that one. There are TONS of them out there...ask your fellow SigEp chapters about them). At the school I advise, it's not a matter of points or percentages, instead for each Star level (in 6 different categories), you have to earn something like "4 out of 5 standards" or "4 out of 6 standards" to achieve that level. So....if your chapter GPA wasn't above the All Greek GPA that semester, you can still earn 4 Star status because you have the opportunity to check something else off. The bare minimums of chapter existence are the 3 Star standards (and these are the BARE minimums or less needed to stay in good standing with your HQ so they aren't hard to achieve)...if a chapter falls below that one semester, we sit down and discuss what needs to improve and how they can improve it. If they stay below 3 Stars for a full year, we have a more serious discussion (and that's where probations can come into play) because the chapter may have lost it's focus and direction and is going downhill fast.

So, I'd ask that Dean what standards he wants all of the Greeks to live up to, and then I'd form a committee/task force to craft a mutually agreeable list of standards, along with the consequences and rewards tied to them. Then go achieve them.

At a conference this week I heard a SigEp alum (who ranks up there in the Greek Advising world) comment about chapters "If we evaluated our current existing chapters on the requirements we have in order to charter a new chapter, we'd probably lose half of our chapters." We were talking about the difference between the standards for new chapters to be installed and the current chapters/initiated members. So if you're looking for a place to start, check out your chartering requirements.

By the way...the SigEp chapter on my campus doubled it's size this year with deferred recruitment (as did another chapter...the other two pledged about 1/4 of it's current size...which is healthy for them right now). ALL the fraternity men changed their approach to recruitment tactics and really pushed "going Greek" to the freshmen in the fall. Since this issue may not be resolved before Fall semester begins, I'd start thinking about your recruitment plans now.

Good Luck!!
PsychTau

Firehouse 03-24-2005 09:21 PM

With respect, stay away from ALL "Five Star" programs or things of that nature. It gives the University (read: this Dean, an innate adversary) the power to shape the goals and purpose of YOUR fraternity, and to punish for arbitrary reasons. It is a Sigma Phi Epsilon chapter, and ONLY the standards of Sig Ep apply. These chapters belong to the fraternity, not to the whims of self-important mid-level administrators. And by the way, our chapters do not have to "prove" anything in order to receive and maintain recognition. It is up to the University to "prove" that an individual fraternity's behavior is eggregious. No system-wide group punishment should be allowed.
You know, it always surprises me when these arrogant Deans issue edicts as if they don't know that they have no power to enforce them. I guess they depend on ignorance and intimidation to further their grab for power.

AWSPE 03-24-2005 10:23 PM

This is all great information being received on my end. Thanks to all contributors. Keep it coming.

33girl 03-27-2005 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AWSPE
No they do not. And that is exactly what I said last year but IFC dropped the ball and never brought out that arguement.
OK, unenlightened puppet of the patriarchy that I am :) I think it's fine for men to have first semester and women deferred, but THUPER DUPER LAAAYME to do it the other way around.

Get together statistics of how many women make it through pledging/initiate/stay active, and how many men do the same. If the men have more initiate than the women - and if they STAY active (this is all about retention) you've won your argument.

And WORD to everything Firehouse said about 5 star programs. Half the time they're created from a template by people who know very little about your campus's Greek system.

mu_agd 03-27-2005 11:13 PM

Have you talked to your Fraternity brothers at other schools that have deferred recruitment to find out what they do? The school I went to, Miami University, uses deferred recruitment and we have a very strong Greek System, on both the fraternity and sorority side. If the administration won't budge on when recruitment will be held, then you need to make the best of the situation. Learn from other chapters and what they do, call them up asking for suggestions and then put those into action. Honestly, I don't think deferred recruitment will kill off the Greek system, like it sounds like you think may happen. Once again, make the best of what you consider a bad situation.


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