Forced to choose between being black or ________.
 

This post in CC got me to thinking of this question.
Do you ever feel like you have to "choose sides" or an allegiance, if you will, between being black or something else? For example, between being black or an American - being black or following Christ - being black or being a member of an NPC/IFC - etc.

I know in my own experiences, there are some people that can't understand why I choose to take up the cause of Christ as opposed to giving in for what is best for blacks (ie supporting a candidate that believes in ideas/policies that go against my convictions as a believer), so I am interesed in seeing if anyone else has/is experiencing this?

:)

No, I don't feel that I have to choose sides. I'm black, a woman, a NPHC sorority member, a registered political independent, a daughter, sister, aunt, godmom, etc.

Then again, it's easy for me because, perhaps, I'm not going out on a limb.
:p

I don't think I have to choose sides.

If ever presented with any conflict I'll do what is right for me.

Beyond affiliation and skin color I am human.

I don't have to justify my actions, for the most part, to others.

I only have to honor my covenant with God.

Nope, I have never felt that I had to choose sides, and side at all.

Re: Forced to choose between being black or ________.
 

Share more about your experiences.

I also never felt that I had to choose between my being black and the activities that I also chose to participate in.

Everything that has lead me to this point in my life have been based on who I am and not the color of my skin, which is a part of me, but not the whole that makes me....me.

I'll bite
 

Yes, I do feel a certain way as WEB DuBois, although to a much lesser extent. As a fiscal moderate and socially moderate liberal, I sometimes feel that I support fiscal decisions that may hurt people of color in the short run, although I'm thinking about long-term benefits. I am very pro-law enforcement, which I feel sometimes puts me at odds with the civil liberties of people of color. I am a proud American with a strong military background. I am also a black person whose ancestors, parents, grandparents, and friends were minimized and marginalized in America.

I feel it when I walk into a networking event and I automatically identify the other people of color first. I am ever cognizant that I am black, even though I have friends from many lands and of many faiths, and I live in the great American salad bowl that is the San Francisco Bay Area.

So yes, being black doesn't affect me in choosing my friends and mates, my career choices nor dictate my social activities, but the fact that I am black is always close to the surface, ever present in my mind.

I'll reply since I posted the quote:

In my daily life I don't feel like I have to choose sides. On GC, I don't feel as if I have to choose sides per se, but I do sometimes feel caught between two communities. And as I implied, it bothers me that the skepticism seems to come from my own people.

Everything that I am - my skin color, my gender, my country of national origin -- are integral parts of my identity. To ask me to choose one over the other is akin to asking me to choose between my left eye or my right.

My sentiments exactly. It hurts even more when so called friends and family are tripping, but that is a whole 'nother issue. Being "forced" to choose is a crock and I am not having it.

I am a diverse person and I love it!

But I could do without the bronchitis and the nasty meds I am on right now :)

Okey, Sistermadly and Jill1228:

Not to put you all on the spot or make you feel uncomfortable--and you can refuse to answer this question:

How come you all feel more skepticism, distrust from your own than from others?

What is it in your thought processes that makes you feel that we, "negroes" fail to support your choices?

Now some may balk or belittle your choice because they are skrait ig'nunt... But you know that's because they fear what they do not understand...

So I really are trying to research this logically out... I get the inkling that you all feel that you are "cast" aside or "invalidated" and although you don't really care, it still does hurt when it happens from "your own"...

My question really is to you, what is "THAT" that makes it hurt?

Just asking?

AKA_Monet

I will answer your questions (I hope you don't mind, I not saying that I've have the same experiences as sistermadly or Jill, but perhaps have a little bit of insight)


Just a little background, I grew up in the ‘burbs, most of my friends were either Latin/Hispanic or Asian while in school...and of course my family and my extended family.

I feel very comfortable living in "both" worlds (and I hesitate to use that word, cause that really isn't it), I have clusters of friends from all ethnic backgrounds and I jump from one to the other, not that I'm keeping them separate, that is just the way it is. I don't act any different with any my sets of friends and if they happen to come together for some event, they see the same person.

But then there is the fact that I (will be) a member of a non-NPHC glo, it is just were I landed in life, as a young girl I just knew that I wanted to be a Delta, but when I went to college there was no Delta chapter present at my school (I didn't know about city chapters, this was back in 1991), so I went through rush for NPC found my home (a different story) and now I will become a member of a NPC through Alumna Initiation...it is the arena that I feel most comfortable in...and that really is the whole point of choosing an glo, the place where you feel most comfortable in and they accept you for who you are.

My real life friends and family do not have a problem with me doing this.......but when I come to a place like GC, lines are drawn and sometimes I feel like I have to straddle that line. But since I really don't live my life in GC world that should not be important. But also in my life (younger days) my "blackness" was questioned and was told that I wanted to be white, which of course makes me angry because is there a certain formula that makes a person black? Isn't it enough that black b/c of my ancestry? is there a handbook that I forgot to pick up?

I have never lead a "double" life and I will certainly not start to do that now....perhaps that is how sistermadly and jill feel.

I'll bite, cause I'm so glad somebody asked:

For my part, I feel the way I do based on some comments made in NPHC forums that question the "blackness" of anyone who didn't choose, for whatever reason, to pursue membership in an NPHC organization.

Now, there have been more than a few people who have said to me "you chose what was best for you, and that's cool with me", but there have been others who, while they might not have addressed me directly, have made the kind of divisive, non-productive, and, like you said, "skrait ig'nunt" comments that Jill and I refer to. When I take my Alpha Phi letters off, I'm still a black woman.

Regardless of the stupidity or ignorance of posts that question the blackness of minority folks in "majority" organizations (for lack of a better term), rejection still hurts. It hurts to know that somehow I have to prove myself more to my own people just because I say "18-72" instead of "19-08" (for example).

I hope this makes sense... I'm willing to elaborate further if it doesn't.

Well I could answer my own question, huh
 

For me, it started when I became seriously focused on Christ and supporting His agenda - especially when it came to political discussions/debates. I have ran across blacks that seem to think that I should ALWAYS support other blacks, regardless as to what it is.....and if I don't, then I'm someone choosing something else over being black.

And don't let me not mention the fact that my finace is white....... LOL


Anyway, like I said, this is just something I've noticed within the last year.

AKA_Monet,
Very valid question.

It was mainly the "skrait ig'nunt" remarks I have dealt with. ("skrait ig'nunt"...I like that!) :D

If I had a dollar for how many times my "so called" blackness has been questioned. I would retire. And it sucked when it came from family members, the folx who were supposed to have your back.
Sad thing is, most of the family members who sweated me wound up making some dumb choices in life (ie 20, unmarried and 3 kids, etc).
We need to kill the crabs in a bucket mentality. We as a people have MUCH more pressing issues to deal with.

It is a trip when folks think I have to prove myself and my blackness. I am Jill, I am a strong PROUD black woman and the only person I have to prove things to is myself.

Like gywn, I must have had some sections of my black manual torn out before it was given to me :D That's okay, I am managing just fine, thank you! When I have my letters on, I am a sistah. When my letters are off, I am a sistah

I have basically had good support from my fellow brothas and sistahs on GC, no complaints. I found my home and it happened to be NPC. It's all good. I still got nothing but love for the D-9. If anyone has a problem with my choices, then it is THEIR problem, not mine.

I hope I covered everything :)

hope this is relevent
 

I can’t speak to it personally but I can understand what Sistermadly and Jill1228 were speaking of…

One of my good friends in the chapter received a lot of grief from his close circle of friends and peers back home because he joined Lambda Chi Alpha when a HBGLO was on campus (Alpha Phi Alpha). There was an expectation that if he went Greek his only choice should have been a HBGLO… because he didn’t make the expected (or in the case of some of his peers – mandated) choice he was marginalized by the guys he grew up with.

While he has always stated that he made the right choice for him – he still feels the pain of being “marginalized” or seen as somehow diminished in the eyes of his childhood peers and friends – because he didn’t follow through with the expectations for him to “be or act black” (his term not mine).

I spent many a night just chilling and talking things through with him… trying to make him realize that he shouldn’t have to prove himself or justify his decision to the boys back home – but instead be proud of who he is and what he is accomplishing.

Even though I'm neither one of the two mentioned above I'll answer.

The issue is that more often than not it seems that Black People place other Black individuals in a box.

"You can only do this."

"You can't do that."

If you step out on a limb you MUST be trying to be White.

Naw, I'm trying to sample what the WHOLE world has to offer.

It's the fact that Black Folks don't cheer each other on for the positive choices that they make on a consistent and regular basis that don't fit into the social norm.

And it's not just a thought process.

"Negros" do fail to support choices.

Tuning out others is easy.

Tuning out your family and those you think are friends is the hard part.

http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/35_3.gif

Laidbackfella hit the nail on the head.
RA Cooper, I feel for your bro. I see you are in Canada. Did you and your bro go to school in the US?

Honeykiss, I feel ya about the fiance. Trust me I can relate!

Cosign, Sistermadly.



I never had to choose a side, but others feel that I am not _____ (fill in: black, country of origin, canadian, or muslim interchangeably) enough...


I embrace all that I am...and to be frankly honest, I have connected with more people that way than if I was only loyal to one side of me.

Indeed.

People honestly WANT to learn about differences.

Society has conditioned some not to ask.

And others to respond poorly when asked what sometimes truly is a simple question.

Thinking back on all the times I've heard about Black people getting upset when a White person asks why we need a month for Black History.

Re: Forced to choose between being black or ________.
 

I do not feel that I have to choose sides. Furthermore, I should not have to choose sides. Once upon a time, I felt I was Black above all else. However, I am more aware of the fact that I am all at the same time. To compartmentalize aspects of who I am takes away from what makes me unique. People will want and expect you to choose, and not understand when you refuse to. That's the only time it's a problem. However, if you are secure, you will be fine.

Re: Well I could answer my own question, huh
 

I'm just now getting there. As I stated earlier, it was my Blackness before anything else. Now, I'm really trying to follow God's plan for my life. However, I'm finding it extremely difficult to reconcile the beliefs I've held for so long with God's Plan for my life. Slowly, but surely, I'm getting there.

:)

Re: Forced to choose between being black or ________.
 

I don't feel as if I have to "choose sides," except in the rarest of examples (the latest GC brouhaha being one).

I often think that, despite our protests against being considered a monolithic group, we often treat ourselves as a monolithic group. That mentality is unhealthy, regardless if it ranges from the silly ("Black people aren't vegetarians") to the self-limiting ("We don't study art history").

Isn't that the truth? Sometimes, it's the people who should be supporting you the most that try their hardest to tear you down.

----------

Has anyone read Authentically Black by James McWhorter? I don't agree with most of his political positions, but he has written several thought-provoking essays shattering the whole concept of "authentic" blackness and how we pigeonhole ourselves under false pretenses.

Re: Re: Forced to choose between being black or ________.
 

I read it, and after I got over the initial feeling of revulsion for agreeing with a Conservative, I admitted that his thoughts on 'authentic' blackness were fairly accurate and could do with some discussion in the larger black community.

Re: Re: Re: Forced to choose between being black or ________.
 

Hey now, conservatives aren't that bad ;) (well not all of us) LOL

Re: Re: Re: Re: Forced to choose between being black or ________.
 

Heh heh. Yeah, you're right - but you have to understand: I live in Canada, where "liberal" isn't a bad word. :D

Yeah he grew-up in Atlanta but came up here for school on his uncle's advice.... thought that skin colour would be less of an issue.

Re: Forced to choose between being black or ________.
 

No.

Re: Forced to choose between being black or ________.
 

No.

But, it is interesting that the person quoted DuBois' writings on dual identity and said that he/she does not catch the most flack from NPCers. I wish that Black NPCer had quoted Ralph Ellison's "Invisible Man."

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Forced to choose between being black or ________.
 

Canada isn't that liberal. Many Canadians are quite conservative when you hear their views beyond universal healthcare and education.

Re: Re: Forced to choose between being black or ________.
 

I hate it when people say stuff like that.

Those individuals do not necessarily represent "we" because they are a socially unconscious subsection of "us."

Re: Re: Forced to choose between being black or ________.
 

That is life and there's nothing unique about blacks in that regard. Every group of people has the tendency to do that to "their own."

If you think so. ;)

I find that minorities always feel the need to provide this disclaimer as if it makes them distinct and more acceptable to mainstream society.

That is a subconscious part of your being black and living in a racialized society. You feel the need to justify and rationalize.

There is certainly no need to question your blackness now. You have proven it by incorporating "skrait ig'nunt" into a sentence.

Your lifetime black person membership has been activated.

To address something you typed earler:
The problem is that many people do not know how to balance being black with having an appreciation for different cultures and activities.

Being a diverse person is not a problem, but being a diverse person who makes an effort to say "I'm not like the rest" is a problem.

To address the post I'm quoting:

I have attended 3 PWIs and have had sincere and thoughtful race discussions with only a handful of whites who weren't just attempting to reinforce their privilege. As an undergrad, I received hateful emails from people who, instead of asking questions, wanted to dismiss the validity of anything that paid respect to minorities' contributions to this society. Why do we have Black History Month? Well, why do certain groups of people feel the need to question it? Do these same people question why the contributions of minorities aren't mentioned in most of the standard history books? Some do but most do not.

I am open to questions and comments but I have a radar for bullshit and "privilege speech."

I really appreciate your comments, it makes me think more about what I wrote…I could give a flying fig is I am accepted into mainstream society, the best analogy that I can come up with is something I took from my life in high school…I never hung out with a core group of people, I went from group, to group, to group, and my thinking was…ok you're cool now, I'll hang out with you, and I did that repeatedly with my friends, they understood this and thought….ok that is just gwyn….I have never in my life (at least that I can recall) done something that would make me acceptable to the main stream, in fact I can recall a few events where I went against the mainstream and I came out fine. To be a little more specific….most of my friends don't like the same music that I listen to, most if not all of my friends don't like alternative reality gaming, most of my friends don't like sci-fi/fantasy, I do, a lot of my friends don't understand why I am greek (becoming again greek through AI)…..these are the things that make me, me and I hang out with that group, until I have something planned with the next group. I don't change who I am to accommodate that group, I guess the best way to put it is that, the only thing that changes is the subject matter? and when the groups come together, they are all find common group and enjoy themselves and I am the same person.

I understand that most of the mainstream will define me by my skin color…but that does not stop anything that I choose to do

The only people who I expect to accept me is my family and I am 100% that they do.

we as human beings love to label and then give an explanation…THAT is not a black thing

Actually, the human tendency to label and explain is overshadowed by the fact that in THIS racialized society minorities are the ones who tend to justify and rationalize.

Whites do not think about race the same as most minorities do. Whites really do not have to. Over the years, social scientists have studied "whiteness" because it has been labeled mainstream and is therefore "invisible." Not because people don't pay attention to whites or give whites power, but because being white is not something discussed. It is a given.

In general, whites certainly do not have to reaffirm that they are people beyond their race and that their race is not the center of their existences and decisions (although it is...subconciously). Minorities are the ones assumed to be consumed by the issue of race and the significance of our own races. Just like women are the ones who are assumed to be consumed with the issue of gender. Men just "live their lives and do what men do because gender doesn't matter."

Re: Well I could answer my own question, huh
 

I heard Vince Vaughn once said, "The whiter the berry, the sweeter the juice." Now I'm not asking you to just let everyone know how great white guys are, because I know everyone would be really upset, but is it true?

-Rudey

Re: Re: Well I could answer my own question, huh
 

Hmmmm, in my experience a berry that is white is not ripened and therefore quite sour.

I feel you 100% on all of the prior.

You've explained what I was going to follow up with as far as privilege with regard to that statement.

Privilege, and some people's lack of an awareness of what privilege is, causes barriers in conversation because those who've benefited from it rarely take the time to understand, or even acknowledge, the other side of the conversation.

Re: Re: Well I could answer my own question, huh
 

*putting egalitarian-love hat on*

A good man is a good man. ;)

*taking hat off*