Rush-related questions
 

Hey y'all. I participated in spring recruitment at my school and have been wondering about some things ever since. I was offered a bid from a chapter I really liked, but I waited until the next day to tell them I wanted to accept. They then told me that some things had been changed, they had already given out a lot of bids that day, and they would not be able to give me one at that time. Is it likely that they would remember me and invite me back after the first night during fall recruitment? Another thing I was wondering about is if the chapters that didn't offer me a bid would even consider me. I realize this is probably extremely early to be worrying about this. I'm just trying to get recs together and trying to figure out whether I should go ahead and get them for those chapters. Thanks a lot!
~Kelly

Retracting a bid? Is that even possible? I've never heard of that.

I don't get it.

Okay, so i don't know your school, but this sounds like something that i would talk to the greek life office about.

I am really not sure the answer to your question though so i really can not answer that. But the situation sounds weird to me. At my school when we offered someone a bid , during informal,we either gave them a time frame or the rush chair would call the person back. We were not the "popular" house so maybe what we did would be different than other houses. But, i would call the greek life office to make sure what happened would not bar you from participating in formal rush, ie cut once cut always policy. Just an idea.

I really wish you good luck.

There's gotta be more to the story.

There's also a good chance that it's a local who doesn't follow the NPC rules

No, it's not a local. Here is the whole story that I'm aware of.
I participated in spring recruitment. They called me that night and offered me a bid. I told them I needed to think about it. The next day while I was in class, their VP of Recruitment e-mailed me, basically saying I needed to let them know by the end of the day. When I got out of class, which was around 3:30, I e-mailed her back. Then I got an e-mail back saying she'd spoken with an alum and some changes had been made, all that stuff I put in the first post. I have no idea whether it was a change specifically against me or whether they ended up offering more bids to people, it became first come first serve, and I replied too late. I'd like to hope it was the latter, but I just don't know. Our Gamma Chi's told us that if we didn't get bids, or if we just didn't like who our bids came from, we could still participate in fall as long as we didn't sign them. So I'm pretty sure I'm okay on that. There's more sororities that didn't do spring so even if they will cut me, at least those aren't my only choices. I'm not sure if any of this makes sense... Thanks.
~Kelly

I would go chat with the Greek Life office. Maybe they offered too many bids and everyone else picked up before you did and if you picked up they would be over total.

Are you positive you had the GPA requirement and had signed whatever was needed to check that with the school? Maybe they didn't have your GPA on record or something (but that can be easily fixed).

Yep...I would definitely talk to Greek Life. Whatever the problem was, it needs to be figured out so that it won't happen again, and if Greek Life doesn't know about it, it won't get fixed. Plus, you need to let the Greek Life office know that you don't have a bid to this group and aren't bound to them (and therefore are eligible for bids from other groups). It's possible that this group put you on their bid list they turned in to the office, and hasn't informed the office of what happened and that you didn't actually have the chance to sign a binding acceptance. If you wait too late to fix that, they may rule you ineligible for bids for a year. It's in your best interest to speak with the Greek Advisor to straighten that out instead of the Gamma Chis.

PsychTau

I'm no green book expert, but I would think it is against NPC rules to give out more bids than you have slots to fill. As for retracting a bid, never heard of it.

Agreed! That's not right- a chapter can only offer as many bids as they have room for- talk to the Greek Life office. Hopefully you saved those emails from the Rect. Chair & you could print those out & take them in with you.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

To be quite blunt, it sounds as though the alum didn't like something about you and told the chapter to retract the bid.

This is wrong on about 10,000 levels. Speak to the Greek Life office and I would also make the chapter's national office aware of the situation.

If you didn't have grades, they would have told you flat out.

I would also advise while you want to make sure the proper people know about this and that it doesn't happen again... this is probably not a group that you would want to be a part of anyway.

Contact the Office of Greek Life and report it. The chapter needs to review their Green Book and recruitment practices.

You didn't do anything wrong, and you're not going to get in trouble for reporting the chapter's error. If anything, you will be helping this chapter get back on the right track.

Human error is normal in recruitment. Consider that the women in these leadership positions and their volunteer advisers are new to their roles, and in many cases, executing a recruitment for the first time. Mistakes happen, and it is unfortunate this occured.

Does anyone have a Green Book handy? Please correct me if any of the following statements are not current:

I'm not certain whether it's one calendar year or the remainder of the school year, but once a bid is extended, isn't it valid for a full (school/calendar) year?

I've been at schools where too many bids have been extended through human error, and it puts a chapter above quota/total, but the chapter is allowed the extra member because it isn't the PNM's error, and she shouldn't have to go bidless because of a computer or human error.

If you didn't sign a bid card, then you're free to re-rush this school year. Check out the Rush Forum for helpful tips, but remember to take advice on this board with a grain of salt, and to consult your own university's Office of Greek Life for real-life statistics and advice about your recruitment.

I'm not certain whether it's one calendar year or the remainder of the school year, but once a bid is extended, isn't it valid for a full (school/calendar) year?

I think that only applies if she signed a bid card. The chapter may have it's own policies as to how long a bid is good for. Since she didn't actually sign a bid, not sure how that would work.

If she had signed a bid, she would have to wait one full calendar year (until next spring) before signing another one.

I've been at schools where too many bids have been extended through human error, and it puts a chapter above quota/total, but the chapter is allowed the extra member because it isn't the PNM's error, and she shouldn't have to go bidless because of a computer or human error.

this happened at my campus once during formal and the chapter was allowed to keep the NM.

Sorry-mis-read

gpb- i thought there wasn't npc at your school while you were there?

there wasn't....i worked in the student activities office next to the greek advisor for 3 years after i graduated and i was a chapter advisor for 3 years. now i'm at a different campus and am the greek advisor. the green book is my friend......:)

Without knowing all the details, and not having a Green Book handy, I'm betting that ABC had X amount of bids to hand out. Stargrl's hesitancy to accept the bid was probably misconstrued as a "no", so that bid was probably extended to someone else - who accepted it right then and there.

I could be wrong, and I'm sure that this breaks a few thousand NPC rules, but that's what this sounds like to me.

Is the chapter in question now at quota/total? That would finish the story.

That's what I was thinking when I said they might have given out too many bids.

As far as how long a bid is good for...I think each National Organization sets the time limit for accepting a bid (I don't think the Green Book specifies that). However, once she signs and accepts the bid, she must start the NM process within one year of accepting the bid (ex: If a girl accepts a bid in November, but doesn't start the NM process until January). I'm not quite the NPC expert I want to be yet, though....

PsychTau

You have either 24 or 48 hours to accept an open bid, I forget which.

At any rate, if you (the sorority you) know you can give out X number of bids...you WAIT THE APPROPRIATE TIME to see if people sign them. If they don't, THAT is when you move forward and offer someone else that declined bid. You do not give more bids than you have open spaces. You can't pressure someone into "well, you didn't sign it right away so we found someone else who would!" - that's the same as hotboxing which as we all know is a giant NPC no-no.

From the sound of stargrl's story, they didn't even wait 24 hours. That is completely unacceptable.

Absolutely! And I certainly don't agree with how this was handled. I was just supposing how this error happened.

This has got to be the weirdest thing that I have ever heard in terms of recruitment.

33girl, what is hotboxing? I'm not familiar with the term. Thanks.

huh, huh, huh, you said hotboxing :)

No seriously...it's where several chapter members surround a rushee and pressure him/her to accept a bid. Using a "first come first serve" policy sounds like a variant.

thanks. :)

hazing??
 

....hotboxing - apparently you don't have a very controlled recruitment. Why in the hell would a PNM want to join an organization where people are yelling @ them & pressuring to make a decision???????come on people!! Think! :mad:

Re: hazing??
 

My guess is that most likely, yelling is not involved - just pressure. At least that is the way it might allegedly happen with respect to fraternities.
~~~
As a follow up to this, does "hot-boxing" apply to family members?

For example, if you were to go to a family reunion and had sisters, your mother, both grandmothers, aunts, cousins etc. who are all ABCs and they were pressuring you to join ABC. Would that apply as well or does "hot-boxing" refer only to actual recruitment by the specific chapter? And if it is the specific chapter, what if some/most/all these relatives were from the same chapter? Where does NPC draw the line between a family member discussing their sorority experience with their sister/daughter/et al. and "hot-boxing"?

And could sorority rush "hot-boxing" also apply to guys? i.e. If a bunch of guys surrounded a girl going through rush and basically told her she should go ABC? Even if they weren't doing so on behalf of the ABC chapter?

Re: Re: hazing??
 

That's right. Usually, it's subtle. Like, "Well you know, we really want you and we think that you are a PERFECT ABC. You're smart, pretty, and outgoing. We know you think that you're considering XYZ but TRUST us, you won't fit in there. You really belong here."

As far as family ties are concerned, it can be a fuzzy line. If it is at a family BBQ, I don't consider that hot-boxing. If it is during recruitment then that is another story. Some schools allow alumnae members to participate heavily in recruitment and not just behind the scenes.

I was at an Alumnae Panhellenic funtion and a woman there had a daughter who pledged her sorority at an out of state school. She was telling us all about how her daughter was torn between her legacy and another group. Mom grabbed her ABC sister-in-law and drove to the school for prefs. During ABC pref, mom and SIL pulled Suzy to the side after all the emotional speeches. Mom looked her directly in the eyes and said, "God made us mother and daughter but only YOU can make us sisters." Poor kid didn't stand a chance. That is the Ultimate hot-box situation. Could the chapter get in trouble? Well maybe but who is going to turn their mother in? To avoid these types of situations, some schools limit alumnae members present in the room to only a chapter adviser.

Re: Re: Re: hazing??
 

WHAT!! That is *&^*& insane!! Hello Verbal Abuse! :confused:

Re: hazing??
 

They screamed because Greek Advisor Carnation caught them - screamed as in "oh @#$% we are so busted!!" They didn't scream at the PNM. :)

CAREPHISIG,

Hotboxing can happen quite innocently and sorority women are trained so it doesn't happen and lead to a rush infraction and fine! Sometimes it is an honest timing issue. IE-- If there is a higher number of sorority women in a side room to number of PNMS, or a sorority woman is alone in a room with a PNM, it is considered hotboxing--- it can happen innocently enough on a house tour where someone walks in to show off a bedroom, and the other sister/PNM walk out. I can remember being in mid-sentence showing someone a room and having to keep an eye on the other people in the room--- sometimes racing my PNM back out of the room because the other pair walked out and to the next place on the house tour.

Re: Re: Re: hazing??
 

I've never understood this. Granted my Mom was the first woman in her family to go to college and she was a GDI, so I never had any pressure. But even still I don't understand why anyone would want to force their child to pledge ABC just because they were. Don't you want your kid to be happy? Maybe ABC was the best sorority on campus 18 years ago when you were there, but times change. Who knows what it's like today. Plus, chapters can be radically different from one campus to another.

Anyways back to the original topic, I'm really interested to hear how this all turned out. Major NPC violations and I'm sure whichever GLO it was, their Nationals would be none to happy either. Stargrl272, maybe you could post an update.

This whole situation seems crazy. :confused: You might be able to contact someone and the sorority would give you a bid again... but if I were you I wouldn't take it. I think it would be awkward, and I think that you could join a sorority next fall that was better organized. Whatever you decide, good luck! ;)

Good point, Morgan.....I'm pretty surprised that the sorority would go and retract a bid after having already extended it to Kelly. Whether they did it maliciously, or just out of poor organization, it doesn't reflect very well on them. Imagine what would happen if word got out? (I'm not saying Kelly will go and spread rumours around, but I'm sure she has friends, and possibly a roommate, who saw what happened, and there are likely some girls in the chapter who wanted her, and are now upset.) Then people would be all like, "Oh, don't rush ABC, remember that nice girl Kelly from Blahblah Hall? She rushed ABC and got a bid, but the VERY NEXT DAY, when she e-mailed the ABC's to accept her bid, they retracted it." I'm not Greek, but I'm sure that there must be some fairer ways to handle the situation of the chapter accidentally handing out too many bids, for example, they could give all the girls their bids, but then forfeit their right to do C.O.B. later on in the semester. I'm sure that it must have happened enough times over the years that most sororities are probably equipped with some kind of plan, just in case. Oh, and Kelly.....this isn't your fault, you sound like a very nice girl, and I'll be sending you happy vibes whether or not you decide to rush for that, or ANY sorority again in the fall.

NPC rules say you can't punish a group by not allowing them to get to chapter total or to quota.

I'm assuming this was COB events that brought the situation about - not formal recruitment. If you had received a bid during formal recruitment, then (as said before) would have signed a formal bid card (can't remember what the new NPC term is for it) and that would have bound you to that chapter for a year. This means that you could only be a member of that group until your year had past. You couldn't take a bid from another group until then - either through formal recruitment or through COB.

As for COB errors - many things could have happened.

The MVP could have extended to many bids.

Someone that was give a bid before Kelly could ha
ve declined and then accepted and they felt that she should be given the spot (I wouldn't agree but it's possible).

They could have miscounted the number of bids they could actually extend and the advisor was the one who caught it. Although as the Advisor I would have go to Greek Life with this and hoped to be allowed to take the extra bid, but perhaps they didn't think of it or knew it would be denied.

So, I don't think it was necessarily malicious on anyones part, I think that (as is always said on GC) that if fall is formal recruitment for your school, you should go through with an open mind. There is no telling what happened and who wants to beat a dead horse - they just start to smell:D

Kelly could go through recruitment and find that this is really the chapter for her - obviously she already felt that way if she was willing to accept a bid in the first place.

So, to answer your questions:

Thanks a lot!

Is it likely that they would remember me and invite me back after the first night during fall recruitment?

Maybe yes, maybe no. I would think so though since most officers take their positions in the spring the person that was in charge of recruitment in the spring will be in charge in the fall (assuming that fall is formal recruitment).

Another thing I was wondering about is if the chapters that didn't offer me a bid would even consider me.

Sure, unless you don't have grades. I think you need to work on the assumption that they gave out to many bids - not that they "suddenly" didn't like you for some reason.:)

I realize this is probably extremely early to be worrying about this. I'm just trying to get recs together and trying to figure out whether I should go ahead and get them for those chapters.

It's never to early to start making contacts for recs. Granted it's supposed to be the chapters responsibility to get rec for women they are interested in - but of course that doesn't happen. Especially since it is so much easier for one person to get one for each chapter than for each chapter to get one for say the 300 women going through recruitment. But, GC is a great place to start making contacts for recs - I'm sure you've already got a few supporters who will write one for you after this post.

So, my advise is - go though fall recruitment, get your recs in order now and KEEP AN OPEN MIND for all chapters on your campus ;)

The only thing that leaves me a little cold about this whole thing is, why does that chapter consider Kelly an "extra?" I mean, it's totally their loss, but seriously......isn't there something in the rule book that says something about, "If you gave out too many bids by accident, you can just GIVE all the girls their bids, so you don't have any drama or hurt feelings, but then your chapter can't participate in the next round of C.O.B." or something to that effect? Or, the chapter could have given out the proper number of bids in the first place, and then snapped Kelly......or not, in which case she could have accepted a bid to another group, and she wouldn't have to feel bad. I'm not Greek, so I don't know these things exactly, but I'm just wondering, where do you draw the line between following the rules, and doing the "nice" thing? Like I said, Kelly's friends and roommates aren't going to know about all the rules and whatnot, they're just going to see "Kelly rushed ABC and got a bid, but then they retracted it less than 24 hours later!!! How mean!!!" I'm not saying that the ABC's necessarily did it to be mean, but whatever the case, they're probably shooting themselves in the foot as far as public relations are concerned. I'm kind of puzzled and dismayed right now, as to why anyone would put a nice girl like Kelly through all this unnecessary stress and confusion, without even making any semblance of an attempt to clear things up for her after the fact.

No, actually there isn't anything in the NPC Green Book that says if you give out to many bids by accident you can still take the all the women that accept. Boy that would lead to drama when XYZ group just "accidently" gave out 5 or 10 more bids than they could take.

Usually there are not multiple rounds of COB unless a chapter needs quite a few women to get to chapter total or quota (which is not unheard of, but probably not the situation here). Remember, I'm going on the assumption that this is informal spring recruitment for this campus and that fall recruitment is the formal recruitment period. All that being said, this is the "norm" of what would happen in that situation:

1. Each chapter would have women that graduate in December, that voluntarily suspend their membership, that don't make their grades and are suspended or that don't pay their dues and are suspended or leave school for one reason or another.

2. They then ask two questions: a) did we make quota during formal recruitment and b) are after all of the things that happened in #1 are we at chapter total.

If the answer to A is no - then they are allowed to take the number of women it takes them to reach quota - even if it puts them over chapter total.

If the answer to A is yes - then they go onto B and if they are not at chapter total they are allowed to take the number of women it takes them to reach chapter total.

If the answer to both questions is no and taking quota doesn't put them at chapter total then they are allowed to take that number plus the number that would put them at chapter total.

Confused yet???

3. Unless the chapter is having membership problems they will probably only need to take a few girls. Depending on chapter size (and since I'm not sure where Kelly is, I don't know if chapters are large or small) it could be anywhere from 2-3 women to 15-20 women. Most chapters will be able to do one big "push" (meaning maybe a week or so of activities with lots of PR etc) and get the number of women they need. Unless they need more than 20 (which doesn't sound like the case here) the chapter usually likes to get it done so that they can get all their new members pledged at the same time so that they are all in the same place in the new member program. Usually chapters that need larger numbers do COB for a couple of weeks and then stop and will take a second or third new member class later in the semester.

Also remember that informal recruitment is not like formal recruitment. You have your events on your schedule and give out your bids as you like. Unless your local Panhellenic has a rule, I don't believe that there is a time limit that you must give for women to decide to accept a bid. If you have a big number of bids you can give, then you can leave them out indefinately. Usually, even in that instance, the women are given a deadline on when to accept. I would say 24-48 hours is the norm, but some groups may want you do decide by the end of the day.

Informal recruitment is just that - informal, unstructured execpt to what the chapter wants and needs. There is no formal bid list that is turned in to be paired up with the potential new members (PNMs) choices - just a list of the chapters new members and the university's version of a binding acceptance of the bid.

So, since there is not "bid list" and they were probably at chapter total - they can't snap bid. Snap bid is a term used during formal recruitment (although some use it interchangable with COB - but they aren't the same). Only those chapters that did not make quota during bid matching can give out a snap bid. Snap bidding usually takes place in the in the two or three hours after formal bid matching, but before the presentation of new members to the chapters and before the PNM's get their actual bids. The idea behind snap bidding is that you are given the bid and allowed to mix in with those that got a "regular" bid. COB happens after all the PNM's receive their bids and at that time any chapter that has openings is allowed to give out a bid. This could be because a PNM didn't accept their bid or because even by taking quota the chapter is still not at chapter total.


The NPC Green Book doesn't leave room for "nice" in this situation. This would be up to the Panhellenic or the Greek/Panhellenic Advisor. Ultimately, our goal is for all women to have a place in our systems that want a place. I think had the chapter explained the situation an exception would have been made, but you never know. Perhaps the situation had come up in the past and the exception hadn't been made, so they didn't ask. It also could be that they gave her 24 hours. They realized their error and her exact 24 hours were up . . .

As I said in my earlier post, we need to give the chapter the benefit of the doubt that they were not doing this to be mean. We are given Kelly the benefit of the doubt that it played out exactly as she said in terms of time - but maybe her 24 hours was up at 3 pm the next day and not at midnight (which maybe would have been 33 hours).

I'm sure the chapter could have handled the situation better as far as giving reasons they could not allow her to become a member. Ultimately, this may be the best for Kelly. She may go through formal recruitment and decided that it would have been a mistake to be in this chapter and that her true sisters are in another chapter.

As always - OPEN MINDS during formal recruitment make for the best choices!

:D

Wow, that is confusing......I'm sorry, I'm just kind of rooting for Kelly here.....and as for "next round of C.O.B.," I meant the next YEAR, if it's after spring C.O.B. But anyway, I'm just hoping that one of these days, everything will work out for Kelly, and she'll come on here and tell us that she's a brand new sister of......ABC!!!! Or........XYZ!!!!!!! Or........she's decided to join the student government/choir/debate club/Model U.N. club/basketball team/underwater basket weaving club, or whatever floats her boat, you know? (Maybe the rowing team, if her school has one--yes, pun fully intended, lol).

Re: Re: Re: Re: hazing??
 

I, am the daughter of a GDI...I'm the first Greek ever in my family.

I went through Formal Recruitment in Fall 2004 with many girls who were major legacies or who were under immense pressure from their mother to join the "right" sorority, whichever one she deamed to be the "right" one. Several were prepared to transfer schools and rush again if they didn't get a bid from that one specific sorority that they felt was the "right sorority".

In some cases, it is a benevolent kind of presure in which the mother tells her daughter things like "I loved my years in the XYZ house" and "Wouldn't you like to be sisters?"

In other cases the girl has grown up hearing "ABC is the only way to go" and "Only a fool would chose another sorority" and "Don't you want to be popular/ successful etc?" and "How are you going to find a husband/ get into law school or medical school/ go into politics etc if you don't go ABC?"

I saw girls sobbing while trying to decide which house to Pref because they LOVED ABC, but their mother, grandmothers, sisters and aunts were all XYZs and they would be so disappointed in her...

During Rush we were encouraged NOT to call home during Rush week and talk to our parents/ siblings/ boyfriends, etc for fear that they would try to influence our decisions. Also, after the Pref Night ceremonies all of the PNMs go to the student union and sign their Pref Cards. After they sign their cards, they must wait in the union until the bid lists are made up... I didnt get back to my dorm until 3am! And, while girls are inside attending Pref Ceremonies the Gamma Chi check their bags and confiscate cell phones so that PNMs cannot call anyone before or while they fill out their Pref Card.

Back to the topic at hand... I wish Kelly the best of luck! I'm sure that if she decides to Rush in the Fall she will find a house that is right for her, and that she will be an asset to teh Greek community at her school!

Also a daughter of a GDI, actually 3rd member of my whole entire large catholic family to go to college all of my family, except me is greek.

Anyway, all this pressure from mothers sounds like horrid abuse. I mean pressuring someone in this way is similar to what others would define as abuse. For me especially the part about getting married. My female relatives have this nice list of how am i ever to get married if i don't ..... This is just crazy to me.

Also, i did not really understand the cell phone thing until i thought about it for awhile. We were not allowed to talk to anybody during rush, ie family, boyfriends, ect. I quess i never really understood until now. It is sad to see that people treat their daughters like this, but it is also nice to know that i am not the only person who has relatives who act like this.

If i ever have a daughter i would/will never make her feel like she has to join a sorority, maybe go to college but that is different.8)

You just told a mod you were Greek and didn't want to say which group.

Do you mean everyone except you is NOT greek? How else could you be a daughter of a GDI if your whole family is greek? I'm confused...