Using Frat to further personal agendas
 

With the recent debate about Sensuret I's book , I think this board can be helped with a more focused critique of the issue many brothers had with him. It seems as though, in his zeal to promote his book, he latently associated Alpha with the normalizing of the gay lifestyle. Now before this thread gets banned, I want to state clearly that I AM NOT HERE TO DEMEAN ANY BROTHERS WHO MAY BE GAY. I want to discuss with the brothers on this forum the issue of using the frat to further personal agendas.

I think brothers should be aware that people in society are competing for the minds of others in the midst of a society that has found itself in the middle of a post modern maylaise. We don't know what to believe anymore. What is truth/ What is right ? These things are constantly being challenged by people, and we have others who are challenging the challenges so to speak by defending traditional values and norms. In this war of ideas, people use whatever they can to see to find stability in this world. Some have resorted in trying to normalize ideas or values that to this point in our social psyche have been deemed unacceptable. One sure way to normalize an idea is to entrench it in an institution (Like Alpha). I think that is what Bro. Sensuret did, although I think he did it latently or unintentionally.

As brothers of a deeper and wider brotherhood than can't be defined by one brother's values or ideas, we have to be cogniscent of the fact that Alpha has it's own principles and values and that we would be irresponsible to represent it in any other way than what the Jewels intended. Whether it is homosexuality, promiscuity, lying, cheating, stealling, frivolity, drunkeness or even mandating that All brothers be Christian; all of these are misrepresentations. To try to normalize them by associating them with Alpha is selfish and divisive (as we saw with the issue with Bro. Sensuret). Though individual brothers may deem one better than the other, Alpha is not about any of those things. So brothers, I urge you to be critical of how each of us represents Alpha, and though there are many things that I wish personnally we could do as Alpha Men within our ranks, I recognize that I am not the only man of Alpha on the planet, and I realized that when I took the oath. So any changes a brother would like to see in Alpha must come from a respect for what the Jewels represented and being true to those core principles.

In the end, love brothers. When I say love, I don't mean an apathetic "love" that doesn't care about the well being of a brother nor respects the possiblity of a Loving God that has set forth ultimate principles of righteousness, grace, and justice. I mean that agape love that sees the best in brothers through their fallen humanity. We all got something in us that is less than honorable, but choose to find the good in every brother, and praise it and be critical of the falleness, without being disruptive with the brother.

Blackwatch!!!!!!

Your post is profound and obviously written with compassion. But I need to ask a clarifying question.

Are you saying that Sensuret was using the frat for his personal agenda by promoting his book on this site? Or are you saying he was pushing his own agenda by being an openly Gay man on this site?

The reason I ask is that one of my sorors is using this site and other Delta listserves to promote her book. But I look at it as one of the benefits of belonging to our sisterhood.

It is kinda sorta okay in some situations
 

I hope I understand the point you are trying to make. As I understand it seems to me that you are asking if it is okay for a GLO member to 'take advantage' of their membership by promoting some endeavor of theirs with the anticipation that each or most members of the organization will participate. IF that is what you are addressing, then in some instances I think it is fine for a member to utilize his/her membership for promotion, unless it is being abused.

We had a very similar situation in my grad chapter. We have a member who would only show up to meeting long enough to ask for donations for her granddaughter to help offset the cost of the granddaughter's participation in beauty pagents. At first everyone in the chapter was supportive by donating money and taking out ads. Then it got to a point where our member would only show up to meeting, ask for money then leave. She abused the generosity of the chapter. Once she started just asking for money then leaving, we stopped giving her money and she has not come back to meetings since then.

I think that if you are a member in good standing, meaning not only financial but also participate with your chapter and organization as much as possible, then it is okay to go to your GLO members and ask for support, but if you are only using them, then people realize this very quickly and put a stop to it. Nobody likes to be used, soror or frat.

Very cogent post, Bro. Cushite.

As was the case the last time the homosexuality debate hit our page, a lot was lost in "the heat" of the battle. I sat this one out because it was tired and nothing fundamentally differed from the last time this debate arose. Long story short, for every Alpha brother there is a topic (or topics) about which they will defend the honor and core values of Alpha. There can never be dishonor in that. Controversy usually brings controversy in return, and we're naive to think otherwise. (But I wish that some of the tenor of the PM discussions had come through on the public page.)

Obviously we bring our individual perspectives to any debate, but I think it takes us looking at this -- or any --issue aggregately to get a sense of the fraternity's acceptance/non-acceptance of a particular issue.

The Jewels are gone now, so the words and values found in the history book must speak for them. Present day brothers, driven first by the Godly perspective that within each of us is the capacity to rise or fall, and secondly, by the perspective that comes from true brotherhood and "the better making of men," are left to lead the continued debate about the roads we will travel and the way in which we will lead.

I'll let others analyze the alleged "motives" of the participants. The debate, however it arrived, could have been conducted on a higher plane by both sides. But realize, as I'm sure you do, that Goodwill (remains) the Monarch of this House.

"06"

The divisivness of the debate didn't center around Bro. Sensuret's pushing his book on the Alpha Ave. of GC, but that the message of the book, and his "open gayness" could become associated with Alpha Phi Alpha. Even though I don't think that He made this association intentionally, I think that perception would be that an openly gay Alpha implies that Alpha accepts homosexuality, which I believe, (and this is just me) isn't fair to the fraternity as a whole.

I do think that many homosexuals have an agenda, and rightly so (for those who agree), to try to normalize the homosexual lifestyle as much as possible (for instance the debates about gay marriage and the literature that is placed in schools that notes that "Johnnie has two dads") to try an win validation from larger society. Heck, If Bro. Sensuret I didn't have an agenda, would we even know of his sexual orientation? I think that this is where the issue of personal agendas lie. I was strictly thinking about personal agendas to normalize certain ideas, not necessarily commerce. Even if I were to start saying that since I am a Christian (which I am) and I have joined the Brotherhood, therefore the brotherhood should affirm my Christianity, I would believe that to be out of the scope of the brotherhood to do. Alpha Phi Alpha doesn't have to validate my Christianity for me to be a part of it. There are brothers who are agnostic, Muslim, Hindu, or subscribe to the Gospel of "Willie" (I actually have a chapter brother who claims this), but I will affirm that Alpha is not a Christian (nor religious ) organization. There may be many things that I can do as a Christian that will affirm some values of Alpha, but that does not make it a Christian organization. Will people associate my Christianity with Alpha, sure they will, but I will be quick to affirm that Alpha is not a religious organization, if asked.

But when people advocate for something in the name of Alpha when it is something that Alpha really doesn't affirm, then it can be percieved as trying to normalize the stance that they take, and I find that on some level disingenuious. I have searched, talked, and searched again and I can find nothing in the History book or the by laws that state that Alpha Phi Alpha affirms homosexuality, stealing, violence, religions, political parties, economic systems, or other personal beliefs that any brother may have. Alpha does state that it will not discriminate from allowing anyone to apply solely based on race, religion, or sexual preference, but as a private institution, this does not mean that we have to accept anyone we deem does not measure up .

Blackwatch!!!!!!

Thank you for your thoughtful response. But I need to ask a question and I hope you do not take it offensively.

Ever since I first learned about BGLOs I have always heard A Phi A referred to as the "gay" fraternity. This would have been before Sensuret was even born, or E. Lynn HArris for that matter.

So my question is, how did that get started in the first place, and since it has been around for so long the perception already existed that Alpha accepted or affirmed homosexuality. Sensuret did not cause this perception to be.

Perhaps I'm out of line in posting in this thread, in that I am not an Alpha...but I don't see how he had an sort of agenda. He felt comfortable enough to disclose his sexuality because he thought there were understanding, thoughtful people on the site.

I never saw in any of Sensuret's posts that he claimed that Alpha was a gay organization; rather he has often stated that it was strong brotherhood that accepted him as the person that he is.

I'm not sure where we can equate homosexuality with violence or stealing, unless all of a sudden one's sexuality is a criminal matter.

Personally I would be proud to have someone with as much character and dignity as Sensuret as a fraternity brother.

KSigkid--

I think what Cushite is saying is that Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. has its own ideas and agendas that they must pursue. Many of these ideas and agendas are to improve the plight of men of African descent in America and other countries where disparaged, from an educational, healthcare to scholarship and economics. It is very broad range in the services that they do. It has its own distinct flavor different from other NPHC fraternities (not suggesting the other orgs do not have their own things too, just pointing these differences).

At this time, it is "nice" to be accepting and genteel to someone who pursues a lifestyle differently than one's own... And it is also cannot be forgotten that there are too many problems that MUST be conquered before we even begin to discuss lifestyle issues. I.e. having food, clothing and shelter with a college education and a career is a primary target for all of the NPHC orgs for those of African descent in America and abroad.

Yes, it hurts when personalities must be put to the side or back burner, and, these issues are way to important for Blacks alone to eradicate. Then there are NOT that many African Americans (percentages) that actually have the education and wherewithall[sp?] to make the kinds of changes needed to adapt... Besides it takes its toll on each member, ironically, personally and psychologically...

And I do think there may need to be serious discussion in ALL BGLO of sexual preferences... The psychological issues alone with young folks conflicted against cultural norms may need discussion at a national level. Is this a new "hip" thing to do, 'cuz everyone is doing it and it is more excepting? How do you explain that concept to a 50-75 year member in a Black organization? And you cannot force it down their throats...

And these conflicted emotions causes a higher percentage of OUR young people to take unneccessary risks with their sexual health that ALSO annihilates OUR community... Forget even starting to talk about the gay marriage issue--we are stuck with "how did you test positive for the new HIV strain and how are we going to get you treated?" That goes for BOTH girls and boys under 18, no matter what their sexual preference is!!!

So how do you begin to deal with that?

Because when black kids fall, they fall fast and hard... I don't see many white folks out in the 'hood other than the police and child protective services (both governmental agencies) on a daily basis changing these paradigms... All I see are broken promises... And many folks, including Black adults, have given up...

.....
 

Cushite your comments were extremely eloquent!

perhaps the eternal optimist in me thinks that its possible to have discussions regarding sexuality. being married i understand how difficult a conversation it is to have regarding homosexuality. my husband believes that "you love the sinner but despise the sin".

if for no other reason but to work on our youth, would it be possible to weave conversations about sexuality w/n existing mentoring programs? i am a firm believer that members of BGLO must set a higher standard for themselves. they are the leaders in the community. continue to take the initiative by moving past personal feelings to help our children increase their awareness about sex. there is too much out there. girls selling the bodies. engaging in oral sex believing that it is not intercourse. young boys turning into mysoginistic, foul mouthed hooligans, believing that kind of behavior is cute and attractive. or having sex at 17 w/o a condom and producing a child is fine. IT IS NOT. our children are dying, whether its by a weapon or by lack of positive stimulation. many of them are confused and have no appropriate role models.

it is difficult, i gather to initiate new programs especially when you encounter people who are confortable with the status quo. however many of us are young enough to foster change because we are directly affected and not too far removed from the problems that exist.

there is work to be done.

Thank you for your response. I'll reiterate that I don't mean to criticize Alpha Phi Alpha with any of my comments, I'm just really confused with this topic.

I guess I didn't see where Sensuret was taking away from any of those aims. He said that he's gay; I don't recall him ever saying that Alpha should drop it's current work and focus on the sexuality issue. In my mind, all he did was disclose his own sexuality; he didn't try to further any agenda or push any mode of thought on anyone. It seems that he was in fact a very active brother who did some great things to raise Alpha's reputation at his school.

Wouldn't this be a situation where people should, as you said, put their "personalities on the back burner," accept that there are members who are homosexual, and move on to the issues that society is facing?

I think it's entirely possible to go and try to make change in the community while still accepting the fact that you have a homosexual brother. I don't see how those are mutually exclusive.

I may just be missing the point here. I've met quite a few gay Kappa Sig brothers, and although it was an issue for some, I never heard that those brothers were taking away from the general aims of the fraternity.

Thank you for your well-thought response, though. A civil conversation over a difference of opinion can never be a bad thing.

Good Day to All,

I appreciate the exchange of opinions expressed by all thus far. This dialogue is tempered with respect and seemingly a willingness to be enlighten from learned individuals.

This thread seeks to engage opinions about Brother Senuret's intent. I raise the question if we do more harm than good by discussing our personal opinions of what we deem as his intent. To that end, I certainly will not imply that Brother Senuret has used Alpha to promote his book nor will I imply that his membership in Alpha serves as a trend for gay individuals seeking membership into a BGLO.
As Brother Senuret stated, he will no longer post on this avenue so me will never know his actual intent.

At all times members of the great Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. serve as a beacon of light in a dark society. We as members don't always hold high the light of Alpha. However, I suggest that the membership strive to be best of servants to all mankind in all our endeavors.

My Phrat Sensuret did not post on the Alpha Ave just to promote his book because of his sexual preference... That, you are correct... Moreover, his sexuality has not and will never take away the aims of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc.

I think from what I understand is Sensuret is hurt because the of few most important things in his life, one becoming a member of Alpha, then having your own brothers "dismiss you" in your face, in public and private because of another important thing in his life, being a gay Black man, just happened so blantantly and disrespectfully toward him... He knows this... No one has to reiterate that...

But for him to all out avoid his "on line community" of his own fraternity publically like he did in Chit Chat in front of the mainstream community (called the "white community") is nothing more than seen as an "Uncle Tom" in most of the BGLO's... That the insults will continue to be hurled at him by African Americans the more he complains about being a Black gay man...

I don't know why it is so hard to express one's sexuality and sexual preferences in the African American community? Well, actually, I have some ideas that go beyond the scope of this post... But, as highly educated and being on the fast track with jobs and careers, the majority African Americans do not have the luxury to rest on their laurels when it comes to defeating racism... We are engrained to fight it as children with hardly any weapons... We are just told to go... And stand face to face, with much faith that it might change but very little hope that it will...

Let me ask you this, how do you defeat a innate hatred to segregate a whole community on the basis of skin color for over 300 years within 40 years of Civil Rights?

And now you want us to add sexism and ethnocentrism and all this other stuff, in what has been actively levied upon a group a people in America, lucky enough to have some sembelances knowing themselves from the past and then moving forward?

Good Points
 

I am sorry if I came off as trying to assess the intent of Bro. Sensuret I by suggessting he had an agenda, but I think that everyone has an agenda. Whether it be commercial, personal, religious, social or psychological, our interactions with one another are purposeful (this is what I meant by agendas). I also don't want to make it seem that having an agenda is all the time a bad thing. Bro. Sensuret is homosexual and a brother of Alpha phi Alpha. Admittedly, I think that Alpha Phi Alpha has a ways to go by enlarge before we fully embrace the homosexual brothers that are a part of the brotherhood. I just think that brothers should be more conscience of the perception of the brotherhood. Like I posted earlier, I don't think that Bro. Sensuret I was doing anything intentional in linking Alpha Phi Alpha with homosexuality, but the perception could be that a man that is openly gay and known to be an Alpha could imply (not necessarily does imply) that there are many more gay brothers than there actually are. This is the problem that I have with the "normalizing" tactic that I noted earlier with the gay rights movement. Let me state for the record that I think that there are both civil and moral issues that affect the gay rights movement. As citizens, they deserve the same rights as any law abiding citizen in the U.S. As moral agents, they have no more of a right to tell me that Homosexuality is not a sin as I have to tell them that it is (in other words, that issue is up for critical debate, which on some level will never be resolved, so at best, we would probably have to agree to disagree).

Seeing that this last point is crucial, one has to come to terms of how much do you respect the fraternity if you are not willing to acknowledge that being a homosexual in the fraternity is a very small minority and that this is the true reality of the frat? Again, this question goes to the heart of how much you care about the perception of the fraternity. Now, I don't think that the fraternity should be perceived as a "Gay" fraternity because of a few openly gay brothers, but I would hope that the gay brothers would respect the fraternity enough to publicly proclaim the reality of the fraternity, that there are very few homosexual brothers and that the fraternity as a whole has nothing about it that affirms homosexuality. As I stated before, nothing in the constitution or bylaws states that Alpha Phi Alpha affirms homosexuality, so there is no need to have the fraternity perceived as such. Now, should we affirm it, that is up for debate. Until we have that debate; brothers, gay or straight, should respect the fraternity enough to allow for the fraternity to be perceived in the truest "light" as possible. While doing so, if a gay brother wants to have a debate about the issue, then let's have that debate in house. Let's go point for point, counter point for counter point with the ideals and values of the jewels as the plumbline to measure the points and let the best argument win out. Then let's affirm the desires of the entire brotherhood, not the opinions of a few.

Blackwatch!!!!!!

I was just thinking the same thing. Before I even enrolled in college, I had always heard this stereotype about Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Inc. I personally don't know any openly gay Alphas, however the ones I know do have strong opinions about this issue. I was just wondering if any of the Alpha's on this forum knew when this stereotype got started, and if anyone knew it's origins.

Re: Good Points
 

Given that most of the men on my father's side are Alpha men, I am well aware of what Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc. does in the community and his capacity is far reaching. What goes behind the scenes in closed door meetings are unknownst to me and neither to I want to know...

And I also think that you cannot serve two masters in this instance... Regardless what you THINK about homosexuality, reality states it is not up to you... It ultimately up to God to that decision...

I do not want to debate on the moral issues because that is not my forte and I do not want to... And I also think that as a human being, your Sensuret I brother, was expressing his true feelings about life and Alpha, where he got them smashed by his very fraternity brothers... In fact the fraternity brothers he looks up to... He thought he could be welcomed wherever he goes, without judgement of who he is... And he thinks he has gotten "jaded" by the "Jewels"... And what is wrong with this picture???

And really, who cares WHAT the preception of the fraternity is when they are really doing what they are suppose to be doing... I say the same thing about my Sorority... It is by our acts that we do that we will be judged...

All we can do is strive to do the best that we can do and make a difference wherever we can... And possibly leave this world a little better off than how we found it...

AKA_Monet's Beauty....
 

Hotep Brothers. AKA_Monet's beauty, wisdom, and strength has clearly been shown by way of her objectivity not to mention her splendid genes due to a number of MEN of her tribe being of ALPHA and fully exemplifying the SIMPLE EQUATION: MAN + ALPHA=ALPHAMAN. Brothers, this is NOT rocket science. ALPHA PHI ALPHA FRATERNITY, INC. is for MEN, about MEN, and founded by MEN! Stop with the "PC" garbage. I battle w/outside forces on a daily basis that attempt to pollute and contaminate my son w/confusion. He will continue to be SHOWN & TAUGHT MANLY DEEDS along w/the importance of adding strength to his TRIBE by way of BLACK FEMALES only. I have drilled into him the importance that he refrain from dating outside his race, and even though he is in the 8th grade and soon will be embarking upon a private high school that is bound to be full of little "blondie-brats" who will marvel at his BLACK GENETIC GREATNESS (both mental and physical) and proposition him for "white trim" he knows that should he ever think to do otherwise there will be a hefty consequence and price that he will be pay! MANHOOD TRAINING for BLACK BOYS is a MUST! No compromise! PERIOD! :cool:

So should Sensuret have qualified his announcing his sexuality by saying that Alpha does not generally take gay men? It seems that he was accepted with open arms by his brothers in his chapter.

I agree that sexuality is an issue that all fraternities are facing now as more and more men become comfortable with "coming out of the closet." I know a few fraternities have clause that they do not descriminate on the issue of sexuality; I'm not sure if Alpha does or not, and not being an Alpha, I guess it's really none of my business.

Again, I think that all of us reach a certain point where we feel like we can admit almost anything to our brothers, from our feelings on politics to our personal choices, to those things about us that we are born with (like our sexuality). When someone shares something personal with their brothers, and it is met with almost universal opposition (as well as private comments that are less than flattering), it's reasonable to think that that person may be pushed over the edge.

To answer PHA Shriner's comments; I don't think any of this is "PC" garbage. It's a real point about large difference of opinion that seems to exist on the boards as a whole and in society as a whole. I think it's a worthy conversation to have.

KSigkid's viewpoint about "FLAMERS"
 

Hotep Brothers. KSigkid, I have read your stated view and I am in total disagreement with your premise of timid like ways insofar BLACK MEN FRATERNAL orders being afraid to DENY and subject individuals w/a "NO" answer due to their sexually wayward & backward ways/tendencies that are in direct CONFLICT w/the overall establishment of the relative fraternal order(s) that a BLACK MAN is attempting to be granted membership. I am a proud member of the PRINCE HALL MASONIC FAMILY(PHA), and I am also a LOYAL PRINCE HALL SHRINER(AEAONMS). I am by far making an attempt to mix apples and oranges, but let me explain a little RULE and MUST that ALL of my fellow PRINCE HALL MASONIC BROTHERS are NEVER too blind to pay CLOSE ATTENTION to. MANHOOD is checked and verified! Yes, it surely is. Take your ACLU jargon and flush it down the toilet, because MANHOOD VERIFICATION will only become more intense due to the fact, that "infiltration" has become a way of life in today's society. I am nearing 20 years of being a SHRINER of which I was blessed to become after being brought into "BLACKMAN ALPHADOM," and I can assure you homosexuality is NOT ACCEPTED! Try bringing your liberal "PC" garbage to my brothers of OKLAHOMA JURISDICTION more especially my MILITARY LODGE BROTHERS who revere the FRATERNALISTIC HISTORY OF THE FRATERNAL BLACKMAN to not be inclusive and accepting of homosexuals, gays, & whatever you so choose to label these individuals, and rest assured that the issue will be dealt with and handled with the "VICTOR" being MANHOOD. As an ALPHAMAN I cannot and will not allow for the splendor of BLACK MANHOOD as promoted through BLACK MEN FRATERNAL ORDERS to be weakened! NEVER! ALPHA PHI ALPHA FRATERNITY, INC. was founded by BLACK MEN! PERIOD. Lastly, I do not condone gay bashing or violence towards any group. I work in the field of Social Services which is dominated and saturated w/alternative lifestyle promotion. I simply stand on my notion that "ADAM is for EVE" not "STEVE." :cool:

Re: KSigkid's viewpoint about "FLAMERS"
 

Liberal and timid, with ACLU jargon...first time I've been accused of any of those in recent memory.

I'm not telling anyone who Alpha should be taking or not taking, nor am I sitting here telling anyone who they should be taking. I'm not an Alpha, and it's none of my business.

I also didn't realize I was "bringing PC garbage" to anyone; if you'll read my posts, at no point did I say who should and should not be taken. I was responding to Cushite's post and asking my own questions on the issue as a whole.

You can have your own beliefs and opinions, but I would be seriously surprised if there were no homosexual Shriners across the country and across the world. It's obvious from your post that you don't respect my opinion, so my reply to you will end here.

KSigkid you are right!
 

Hotep Brothers. KSigkid, you are right! You are not an Alpha, and ALPHA BUSINESS is NONE of YOURS. Please leave and mind your own business ok little boy. As for your inference that "reverse blasters" are in existence in black male fraternal orders to deny such would be quite naive of me. I am concerned only and about BLACK FRATERNAL ORDERS that promote STRONG BLACK MANHOOD TRAINING, and being a HETEROSEXUAL BLACKMAN I am partial to black male fraternalism, because I have faith and confidence that my BEAUTIFUL BLACK QUEENS can conduct their respective BLACK WOMANHOOD TRAINING as well. You have no knowledge of what BLACK FRATERNAL ORDERS allude to and the manner in which they are truly cherished amongst members of the BLACK NATION. You can revert back to your kind, and I shall surely do the same for mine. I can assure you I have a thorough base of proof that can support my statements with regards to "flaming boys" trying to pretend being MEN in my various fraternal affiliations for BLACK MEN. In the meantime the "flaming boys" are always knowing that they had better dare not try to bring forth their alternative lifestyle to the masses of us HETEROSEXUAL FRATERNAL MEMBERS for the purpose of advocacy and cosignment; because they know what will happen(you go figure). BLACK MANHOOD is to not be compromised ever! Period. If a BLACK MAN is willing to substitute a BLACK WOMAN for a BLACK MAN for sheer excitement, pleasure, therapy, along w/spiritual, physical, mental enjoyment and need he is either DEAD or SICK! The BLACK MAN is neither! The BLACK MAN is ALIVE and HEALTHY. The BLACK MAN protects, loves, honors, and cherishes the BLACK WOMAN. For all of YOU BEAUTIFUL BLACK WOMEN who have read this attestment please take notice of the FACT, that AN ALPHAMAN IS A REAL MAN! An ALPHAMAN knows the greatness of the BLACKWOMAN. I am happily married to a BLACKWOMAN who I could never imagine trading for a hardleg! Are you crazy? :cool:

PS. Oprah, I hope you have read this!

Re: KSigkid you are right!
 

Again, I have never made any claims in any of my posts about what any organization should or should not do. I'm not going to leave this discussion or this board simply because you say so, though. This board as well as all of the other boards on GC are open to everyone. I will continue to post in discussions I find interesting, wherever they may be.

I have not criticized Alpha or its members; I have only brought up a different point of view.

Thanks for calling me "little boy" though...do we have to resort to calling names?

ACLU jargon? Then also let's take away the ACLU jargon that says civil liberties are for everyone and not just White men.

<----- a proud member and employee of the ACLU of Minnesota.

Why does "manhood" have to be discussed? Just because someone is gay, he is no less of a man than a heterosexual.

All this talk of "manhood" leads me to believe that there's some insecurity with how certain people perceive their masculinity, and that it's easily threatened. But that's just me.

Re: KSigkid you are right!
 

While the rest of the posts in this thread have been insightful and intelligent... I suspect that it is posts like this that were at the root of Sensuret publically distancing himself from the GC Alpha Phi Alpha community.

The discussion was centring around the question of whether or not a personal agenda was behind any of the postings earlier - to which I would say no. Sunsuret posted on the forum looking for support because of the negative reactions he had recieved - but he found instead that his "Brothers" on this board where some of the haters...

To me this has shown a ironic reversal - specifically that some "people" on this site have chosen to use Alpha Phi Alpha to further their own agenda's of intolerance. They have been the ones publically and privately slamming Sunsuret for "betraying" or "destroying" the Brotherhood at the heart of Alpha Phi Alpha; and they have been the ones most vocally promoting their own agendas (as witnessed by PHAShriner/1906's posts)... so why are they not subject to the same level of scrutiny or discussion?

CO-SIGN!!!!

Re: Re: KSigkid you are right!
 

Look Mr. Cooper,

I'm going to try to explain this again--except I'm going to try to be as civil as I can.
1. EVERYONE, no matter how extensive or limited their experience, has an opinion; and it's okay to have a different one.
2. EVERY organization has it's stated purpose and rules governing membership and it's target market for members; yet we all must comply with federal rules on discrimination. Despite this reality, you know as well as I do that there are people you hope never become a member of your fraternity. We all have
undesireables we have to deal with.
3. The answer to the question of whether Senusret I used his membership to advance his own personal agenda is clear: yes he did; and he is not alone. Hell; every now and then people who are not ALPHAs come on our board selling stuff, trying to get us to attend an event, etc.
I think his sexuality became part of the discussion for several reasons: reasons like the content of his book and how Alpha Phi Alpha could be perceived of as a result of his presentation of us.

He may be a good guy, and I believe him to be so; but MY problem is the fact that my fraternity is FOR MEN, not for gay dudes. He knew this, and sought membership anyway. Brother PHAShriner/1906 mentioned the word "infiltration", and that's exactly what has happened to us. And MOST people posting to this thread seem to have more pity for this dude than RESPECT for our illustrious fraternity. I understand the value of being PC; but at the expense of being true to yourself and your fraternal beliefs?

I admit being more than rude to Senusret I; but he has not represented my fraternity on these boards and others the way A TRUE BROTHER would. He would introduce himself and say he is a member of ALPHA PHI ALPHA (as if that fact was like a ticket to be accepted amongst those on the board he would be chatting with), then proceed flashing his homosexuality as if he were celebrating a successful infiltration. I don't feel proud at all for some of my responses, but I really believe he deserved getting "publicly and privately slammed by his own brothers". THIS IS THE ALPHA PHI ALPHA FORUM, mainly for ALPHAS; where we discuss ALPHA BUSINESS with brothers. Yall know the rules. Respect is earned; not given. If you want it; give it.

Re: Re: Re: KSigkid you are right!
 

True...and I feel I came to this board with respect but was not treated as such by one of the members. I did not, in any of my posts, suggest anything about Alpha as a whole or make any claims of what anyone should do. It was indeed a respectful conversation until a few posts ago.

I simply made the statement that I did not think that Sensuret used his fraternity affiliation to advance agenda, nor did I think he suggested any sort of "infiltration." He had been accepted by his chapter, and thought that the acceptance would translate to his brothers here on the board.

Again, this isn't to tell Alpha's how to do anything...I was just expressing my idea.

Re: Re: Re: Re: KSigkid you are right!
 

Hi KSigKid,

Allow me, if you will, to suggest something: and that is, that ALL of us go back and read the thread that was stopped, and then read the beginning of this one. Pay attention the tone you and others (including my self) used in expressing our views. Do you see any trends? Did you notice how some people responded without reading a person's entire post? Is it possible from your eyes to see how Shriner 1906 and myself could respond defensively? Have you ever had to hold your tongue for the sake of peace and harmony in one of your meetings?

I can only make a decision as a moderator at this. Bro. Senuret and his reasons for membership, his measure of a man and his intentions are not appropriate for debate. This Brother is a person and I'm sure he has feelings just as we do.