Christian Fraternity Sues To Keep Out Gays
 

Fraternity Sues To Keep Out Gays
fraternalnews@yahoogroups.com
March 1, 2005

Chapel Hill, North Carolina) A conservative Christian fraternity is
suing University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill over the school's gay inclusion policy.

Alpha Iota Omega's status as an official campus group was revoked after it refused to sign the university's nondiscrimination policy.

The policy specifies that groups cannot deny membership to students based on personal characteristics such as age, race, color, national origin, religion, disability, veteran status, sexual orientation and gender.

The fraternity says it shouldn't be forced to admit nonbelievers or
gay students. It claims the university has infringed on its members' rights to free speech, free association and free exercise of religion.

Alpha Iota Omega has only three members. But, they hired a lawyer and launched their lawsuit. The three members will not say who is paying the legal fees.

An attempt at mediation between the university and the students
failed on Monday - setting the course for the case to go to trial.

The suit comes as students at the university demonstrated Tuesday evening to show support for a gay student who was taunted and beaten. The student was attacked by a gang of six or seven men last Friday as he walked along a street. Police have labeled the beating a hate crime. The victim suffered broken bones but wasn't hospitalized.

The suit is the latest in a series of legal actions by conservative
students against universities which have gay civil rights protections.

In California a Christian group is suing the University of
California's Hastings College of the Law in federal court for not
recognizing it as an official campus organization.

The Christian Legal Society says it should get campus funding and other benefits, but does not have to open its membership to gays, lesbians and nonbelievers - all requirements of the San Francisco law school.

Ohio State University is also facing a suit by the CLS after the
college refused to recognize the groups when it barred gays from
joining.

The University could not force the group to take certain members. Unless this is a private school. Needless to say, the easiest analogy to use is this:

Would any fraternity accept women? Would they be forced to accept women because of the non-discriminatory policy? All public schools I know have such a policy and I have yet to hear of any woman joining a fraternity. Also, I have yet to see a fraternity forced to accept any person they didn't want into the organization.

All organizations have certain criteria for membership. For fraternities, you must be male. In some others you must be Christian or at least have a belief in a Creator. All organizations have beliefs. If a potential member does not comply with those beliefs, they are not invited into the organization.

The easiest solution is for the Christian fraternity to sign the policy. Then select members who fit their beliefs and criteria.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

While I don't agree with them wanting to bar gays out of their fraternity, it is up to their own organization to select members on how they see fit.

I would think that in a world this big, there are probably some people out there who are Christian, but are also gay. I mean, I'm Catholic, but I'm also pro-choice. So.. I guess it depends on the person.

That's was I was going to say!! I mean seriously, just sign the thing, and then choose who does or does not fit your group. Isn't that pretty much what ALL of us do anyway? I mean no one (at the university) asks us why we cut women do they? Can you imagine what would happen if they passed a rule saying sororities could not discriminate based on dress or bank account size? (I'm not saying that is a good reason to cut someone, but you all know dang good and well it happens every recruitment) And what if then they went around and asked why some girls were cut by certain sororities? DISCRIMINATION, in some form, happens within every group's selection process. They don't fit the mold somehhow, so they get cut. Anyway, I know that's kinda out there, but COME ON!
It's ridiculous to insist that a Christian fraternity take members that do not follow the same beliefs that they do. Some Christians don't believe homosexuality is wrong, join one of those groups.

i would have to agree to that.

They may have an "open" membership policy. I don't know anything about this group in particular, but I do know that some Christian-based GLOs have a "anyone who wants to join can" policy because they feel it's un-Christian to exclude people.

Which is kind of ironic, if you think about it. :rolleyes:

Actually at our school, if you receive funding from the school you have to have completely open membership. Sororities and fraternities here cannot receive school funding aside from awards because they're selective organizations. Sounds like the same situation there..

That is a possiblilty.. so why don't they just not sign it, not receive school funding, and pick whoever they want to be in their fraternity?

I agree. It sounds like these people want school recognition (like access to university facilities) and school money (like from student activity fees). A lot of schools will not give money or access to school facilities to groups which are not open (the thinking is that a student's money shouldn't go to a group they can't be a member of). That's how it was at both of the universities I went to. Even groups which seemed like they would be exclusionary (like the women's organization) couldn't refuse membership to someone not a member of their group without agreeing to give up school funding.
At a lot of schools greek organizations don't get university funds specifically for this reason.

Was this the same one who sued the school to be allowed on campus?

WOW, how things change when they become recognized!

Religious Zealots at work.:(

heh. chapel hill just had a gay bashing over this past weekend as well. Sounds like a nice place to go to school. :rolleyes:

GLO get funding? We couldn't get funding because we restrict membership.

They're not recognized yet. That's part of their gripe.

We don't get school funding to hold socials, philanthropy events, etc., but we do get funding to hold "study breaks," which basically means we get $200 / semester (if we request it) to have a table of pizza and other really good food during midterm or finals week. We're the only sorority who does it... great PR! ;)

We didn't get funding until about my senior year. We finally were able to make enough of a case that, as a student organization run through the student activities office, there was no reason we should have funding withheld. I know there were restrictions to that, but I can't remember exactly what those restrictions were.

I can understand a university's view of no money to the organization, but access to facilities is for students, not necessarily organizations. I could go and reserve a room at school and use it. I can even say, no one can come into the room while I am using it. The only justification for not allowing me access to the room is if I am going to do something illegal or if there is a lack of facilities and a certain number of students want to use the same facility, the majority will get it.

A university here in washington has different statusus (SP) available to different types of clubs. The university does not have a greek system so i dont know how the rules would apply, but with religious groups the status that they have is that they can use campus facilities, can get access to having space on the university web site (maybe with some type of restirictions like they cant spread hate or something) they can get access to having a campus phone number and mail box and money for advertising, but not a lot of money. They can petition the residence hall association for some funding if they want to hold a philanthropy project or something that could be seen as university wide, ie non religious but sponsored by a religious organization. I personally think that is a good idea. then the groups can exsist but not have do deal with some of these issues. However, i really have never heard of religious groups who outwardly will not allow homosexuals, even thought the campus is pretty liberal.

In some cases, If some University uses student, state, or federal funds to pay for events, All Student Organizations would be eligible for funding. This is so all organizations can do quality programs.

My contention is basically the opposite of the Groucho Marx quote...

"I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members." - Groucho

Why would any gay person want to be a member of a club that actively would not want them as a member? I say recognize the fraternity as a student organization, allow them limited use of school facilities, but limit their receipt of any school funds to events which benefit the university community as a whole.

See "self-hating gay".

Maybe their goal would be to take that practice to a whole new level?

"Hi, I am a good Christian Organization and want to be recognized so We can get Schools funding.

Oh, We dont allow anyone who is Gay, Black, Brown, of what ever!

If you do not agree with us, We will Sue You!:o

""" SCREW THEM""""!

That is all!:mad:

something something- get to the back of the bus
something something- segregation now, segregation forever
something something

I don't really think that whether any gay person wants to join is relevant. The school is not responding to a group or even an individual student who wants to join. Rather, they are responding to the very idea that a university, a place which hopefully is striving for inclusion and integration within its student body, should be supporting and organization which excludes certain students.

I am not saying that all groups which are exclusionary are inherently bad or that people don't have a right to choose whom they associate with, but there is an issue as to how much they should be supported by a school, particularly a state school. Even recognition is an endorsement, at least on some level, by the school of this organization and by extention their policy of discrimination.

Re: Congratulations!!!!!!!!
 

Site your articles please.

Re: Congratulations!!!!!!!!
 

False.

Re: Congratulations!!!!!!!!
 

You apparently didn't read my post very closely. I didn't say that this organization or any organization has to let in gays. What I did say is that UNC and by extention the State of North Carolina doesn't have to recognize it or give money to it.

No one is saying you have to "bow to another." What we're saying is if you choose not to "bow to another" you have to pay for your own club and find your own space to meet but you can't use UNC money or UNC facilities and you can't call yourself a UNC club!!!

Re: Congratulations!!!!!!!!
 

To my knowledge, you don't have a medical degree, so i'd like to know what medical doctor proved this.

Re: Congratulations!!!!!!!!
 

..Everyone else has those same rights.

..Why would anyone stand up for something they don't believe?

..That "fact" is not proven -- medicine believes the opposite.

..So much for the "all loving" God. The one I was taught about and believe in loves and accepts all.

To me, this is not Christianity. At least not as I understand it.

HI FRED!!!

Harvey Fierstein called, you left your panties at his house.

Re: Congratulations!!!!!!!!
 

Congratulations! There are so many things wrong with this statement, I don't know where to start.

I think there is a huge difference on an organization not accepting someone because they are gay and not accepting them because of their skin color. Skin color is not a question of morality (for most people, there are a few who are crazy). But I understand what you are saying

Anyway, homosexuals can be Christians, Iconoclastic. Just because it is believed by some to be a sin, are you saying that Christians are not sinners? We know that is certainly not the case.

And they were in such a tight little wad.

To sad to be true:(

Or it could be a typo!;)

immature must equal something you know you can't answer.

I simply asked what medical doctor has proven that being gay is a choice. Legitimate question, obviously you have no legitimate answer

The short answer is "yes." You have probably never tried but I'm sure that you could join the homosexual organization on campus, even though I am assuming you are not in fact a homosexual. You could probably join the organization for students of color or the woman's organization (I am assuming for the sake of argument that you are a guy and white... although I don't know if you ever actually said either way). At my college the Baptist student center was open to me even though I wasn't Baptist and I could go to Hillel events even though I wasn't Jewish. Just because these groups have "labels" does not mean that they are "exclusive" (meaning they prohibit students from joining because they are not a member of a race, sex, religion or sexual orientation). The ones which choose to be exclusive don't get funding. For example, on my campus, Chabad refused to allow non-jews to participate in activities and they were therefore prohibited from receiving school funds.

I am not a UNC student, so I don't know how UNC does it but many schools don't fund or recognize exclusive organizations. Some schools recognize them but don't fund them. Others fund them but only allow them to use the funds for functions or programs open to the entire student body, not for internal group functions.

The point is the university has the right to say "we don't want to condone exclusion of students from student organizations based on sexual orientation." Furthermore, your assertion that your right to exclude is in itself a form of "diversity" is silly. While the first amendment protects your right to exclude people from associating with you, it does not establish exclusivity as a right entitled to assistance by universities. The law says we cannot force you to associate with people you don't want to but the state and the university has no affirmative duty to aid you in doing so.

Re: Congratulations!!!!!!!!
 

Did you choose to become heterosexual? Because if you did, then you are admitting that the option to be homosexual was also on your plate, and that option is still available to you at your conveniece.

Heterosexuality doesn't mean you are a Christian. Following the teachings of Jesus Christ means you are a Christian. And before you get into the notion that the teachings of Jesus don't include homosexual activities, please take into account the FACT that many of Christians' acts are not always following the teachings of Christ, however they still refer to themselves as Christian.

You think when Christians lie, have multiple sexual affairs prior to the person they "marry," cheat, steal, are greedy, that they are any less Christian than the next one? Sin is part of human nature, and the sin of homosexuality is no greater than the sin of being greedy with your Creator by thinking you are in the position to tell another man what his relationship to God is and is not.

Re: Re: Congratulations!!!!!!!!
 

Well said.

It always amaizes me that the experts on homosexuality (that its a choice, etc.) are always the straight people.

It further amaizes me that some people claim to be experts on what god wants and what he thinks, when in reality, were all on the same page. None of us know. All we have to go by is a pretty good literary anthology that was written about 2,000 years ago.

Not so.

In 1972, they passed Title IX of Education Act which barred schools that received federal funding from discriminating on the basis of gender. While most people may be familiar with this act and its affect on college sports (forced schools to give women 'equivalent' sports opportunities), it ALSO affected college clubs & organizations.

Social fraternities and sororities were excluded from this act. But all other groups were not. Several all-male groups were sued under this act, and others were concerned they would be. I know that the Iron Arrow Honor Society at Univ Miami was sued under this act, and when they did not change their membership policy to admit women, they were kicked off campus. (http://www.ironarrow.com/). (when they did change this policy, they were again allowed back as an officially recognized group.). My fraternity, Alpha Phi Omega, was concerned this would also happen to its chapters. Thankfully, the voting delegates at our 1976 National Convention voted to go co-ed (but we still allowed chapters to remail all-male if they wished)

So, bottom line, a school most certainly could expect its clubs/org to be open to ALL students. What legal basis they may have I won't know.

I still would like you to back up your hypothesis that is being gay is a choice.

Re: Congratulations!!!!!!!!
 

There is no research that proves that being gay is a choice.

The debate between biological determinism and nurture continues regarding sexual orientation. Some argue that we are born a clean slate and our sexuality is a matter of socialization. Others argue that homosexuals would never CHOOSE to be something that is so ridiculed and marginalized in this society.

I guess you have never met devout homosexual Southern Baptist ministers. I can not remember his name, but such a minister gave a lecture for my graduate class 4 years ago. He is the man who was actively involved in the "de-homosexualizing ministry" and the organization for former homosexuals. He appeared on Sally Jesse Raphael years ago and wrote an article about his experiences as a Christian homosexual who is a minister.

That organization for reformed homosexuals was a failure, by the way. The founders turned back to homosexual lifestyles.