Hazing Found at U. of Michigan: 3 Fraternities, One Sorority
 

The Detroit Free Press reports that an investigation found that four GLOs at the U. of Michigan hazed:

Delta Sigma Phi (has been closed)
Sigma Nu
Zeta Beta Tau
Alpha Epsilon Phi

For the findings and the consequences (varying levels of fines, social restrictions, "membership review" and so on) see:

http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/...6_20050219.htm

One interesting excerpt that may point again to the real need for alumni/ae and national interest in, and oversight of, chapters -- as well as, frankly, the need to be careful in membership selection:

"In an agreement reached with the school, the fraternities and sorority will retool their pledge processes, give their leadership and members more guidance, look at removing some members and strengthen ties to national organizations.The school attributed some of the hazing to poor chapter leadership and weak ties to alumni."

GAG, Learn or be closed!!!

Da, when do Those In Leadership at Local Learn!:(

ditto to you tom.
with all that's going on nationally, when will they get it?
and at michigan...good lord.
my big ten loyalty is stretched.

Closing isn't enough...
 

Sorry, folks, but just closing a chapter isn't getting the message across anymore.

Why? How many students die each year? Does it ever change?

No.

Until a new solution is found, this is at best a band aid solution to a systemic problem. A band aid to treat cancer.

Something more definitive, that sends a message, has to happen. What, I'm not exactly sure: making hazing a felony, and have DA's more aggressive in prosecuting might be one way.

However, to get at the systemic root, I still don't think that is enough.

How about this idea: When hazing occurs at a campus, obviously the offending chapter has to go, prosecutions need to occur, but, I would also propose the entire greek community at that campus "feel the pain" so to speak. Put all chapters on probation, or other sanctions. Send a message. Get the community to start policing itself, or we will see outside solutions destroy the system entirely.

Ultimately, we have no one but ourselves to blame, and, the solution must come from us to be effective.

Jumping off the soapbox...let the dialogue begin....

Re: Closing isn't enough...
 

Wow. That's pretty hard core.

But it may be the only thing that works. Nothing else seems to.

I've thought a lot about "peer pressure" in terms of drinking...this is sort of the ultimate kind of peer pressure for chapters. Everyone polices the system and abides by the rules, or all go down together.

Hard core.

Re: Closing isn't enough...
 

Hard core? Yes. Effective? Quite probably.

Let's face it...99% of the time when a chapter gets caught hazing, all the other greeks on campus knew they were doing it (to some degree). After the fact, they say things like "Yea...I knew they were doing some crazy stuff..." Heck, I even heard one of my students say today "You know it still happens." Well, if you know it still happens, DO SOMETHING!! Hazing is a slippery slope...while I hate to be Attilla the Hun and police every single thing my greeks do, there are a few things I will NOT tolerate. One of them is knowing that another group is doing something wrong and not holding that group accountable for their actions. It winds up getting bigger and bigger, and damages the whole community.
(Notice I didn't say "tattle" on your fellow greeks...)

/soapbox.

PsychTau

I understand the concept of wanting to police the system internally. Yet, why should a chapter that is doing everything by the book - is in good standing, has never been in trouble, has a great brotherhood, makes grades etc. *and* has no knowledge of what other chapters are doing behind closed doors - be held accountable (probation/sanctions) for the actions of the other chapter. Heck, it may be as few as one or two individuals of that other chapter that is at fault and the rest of the particular chapter may not be aware of it. Just does not seem right.

Re: Closing isn't enough...
 

I'm not sure I totally agree with you.

Something should happen to the entire greek community. Even if XYZ don't themselves haze their new members, some of their members must have seen what was going on with members of these four orgs. But putting everyone on probation because a handful of orgs hazed their new members seems a little over the top.

Maybe the right approach is to require the members of these four chapters to put together an anti-hazing program open to the entire student community, then require that a certain percentage of every chapter on campus attend the program. Require 100% attendance from the four chapters in question. This would be in addition to the punishments meted out by the chapters' nationals. Then again, how would you ensure compliance from members of the chapter that has been closed...

I'm saddened that the sorority in question is my own. We have a very strong anti-hazing policy on the national level, and I know my chapter sisters wouldn't even dream of hazing... and I'm saddened to think that some of my sisters allegedly do haze. :(

I agree with TSteven and LXAAlum and DeltAlum in certain regards but not all!

This happened at Alfred in NY. A Local screwed up and The College Kicked All Greeks off Campus.

So, where did that get us as GLOs?

Is making an example of all Greeks because of a few in a GLO or what a GLO condoned the answer. I wish I had That Answer.

Imentioned once about Kicking a GLO off Campus for any infraction, I got reamed big time. I still stand by that as a fact. If it is flagrent, then do it with no remorse. Do it enough times, maybe the rest will beging to understand along with Nationals about policing along with Alums to make sure that The Chapters are running properly!

I will tell you, if this happened at My Chapter, there would be a road trip to it By Alot of Alums who have been working with them.

No need for School or HQ to handle it!

War is Hell, Alums can be much worse! :mad: Ground Zero in any War would look like a Birthday Party!

Re: Re: Closing isn't enough...
 

That's along the lines of what I was thinking. Unless there was widespread issues among the whole system, I wouldn't put everyone on probation. But I think I would require them to attend some sort of seminar/do something extra to get the point across. Kinda like the "where one goes, all goes" approach.

I am all about using educational opportunities (or community service) as consequences for behaviors. Along with the good old fashioned "loss of privileges." (alcohol privileges, etc.) I figure that if other chapters on campus get sick of having their time taken up by seminars, etc. they will exert some positive peer pressure to keep the hazing (or whatever is going on) from happening.

PsychTau

don't most schools already have a hazing "workshop?"

while, my first instinct is to agree with lxaalum, i am hesitant. i do think the whole greek system should be held accountable, but i see that if a chapter was caught hazing, the university could easily "punish" everyone by kicking them all off campus.

one of the lifeguards i supervised this summer, is in a fraternity. he and i had a long chat about hazing. he said that everyone on his campus hazes, but it is very quiet because the university has a zero tolerance policy. i asked him why someone would go through all of this "stuff" and his response was "because it is fun." how do you deal with that?

Let's put this in perspective. The U of Mich has 25 IFC fraternities and 15 NPC sororities. Eight were investigated for hazing (six fraternities and two sororities) and half of those were found in violation. The other 4 that were investigated were cleared. The investigation lasted six months and involved interviews with over 150 members. I think the whole thing made quite an impact on the Greek system as a whole. The groups who do not haze are already being punished by the actions of those 4 groups as interest in greek life is significantly down on this campus. They are embarrassed to wear letters on campus. They have lost a lot of respect as a group. While I am all for firm and decisive actions when a chapter is found to have been hazing, I don't agree that all the others should also be punished. The fact that these incidents came to light to officials shows that they policed themselves pretty effectively. The four groups who were investigated and cleared of any wrong doing probably have it the worst right now. Everybody will only remember that the chapters were under investigation, not what the outcome was. To severely restrict groups that are doing what they should and living up to the ideals of their organizations leaves them no incentive to continue to do the right thing. Let the punishment fit the crime and if there is no crime, then there should be no punishment.

Dee

Make everyone feel the pain???

How panhellenic.

-Rudey

Re: Re: Closing isn't enough...
 

I know years back, Colorado State put on risk-management seminars about the dangers of drinking...as far as I know, this was an ongoing program. Samantha Spady still died, even with this in place. CU had some sort of risk management seminar required for all potential new members - but the Chi Psi pledge drank himself to death before the seminar was held. The current system does not work.

That's why I'm saying something more drastic has to occur - whatever it is - it has to come from the Greeks themselves to be effective, and, they have to be willing to implement something that is systemic (required for ALL chapters to participate in to remain in good standing), as well as contain harsh penalties.

It's the only way (not necessarily my idea, but AN idea from the greeks as outlined in the paragraph above) to be effective. Something that comes from outside the greek community will be resisted just on the basis it's an "outside" program being forced on the greeks.

Greeks have pulled through crises together before (how many times in the 1960's did the experts say greeks were going to die off?)...and it can be done again.

As I've said all along, greeks need to return to our roots (as in the ideals put forth in our Rituals) - we aren't living what the rituals teach - instead, we are living what we've been brainwashed to believe what we should be: the Animal House, anything-goes, we're young and deserve to be wild, it-can't-happen-to-us mentality that is utlimately going to be fatal. That is what seems to be true for a majority of greek systems - true there are exceptions, and they should be held in high esteem, NOT in the "milk-and-cookie" boys that they sometimes are regarded as being.

If hazing is a huge problem across the board at a certain university, I like LXA's idea. What about a moratorium on new members until people clean up their acts?

Fraternities won't accept your sorority rules like this. We don't care about being panhellenic.

-Rudey

I've seen national groups on my campus just boot/grant early alum status to all their current members, initiate the pledge class and then start from scratch. Kappa Sigma at Central Oklahoma had that issue a frew years back, and now they're easily one of the top groups on campus.

As Rudy said, with fraternities, you can't come up with a rule like that. For one thing, how would you really know that they cleaned up their acts?

Wouldn't this be violating freedom of association laws unless they derecognize or close the chapters? I know the 60's have long passed but I wouldn't want to mess w/ that kind of stuff at Michigan :).

I doubt that any national HQ would support something like this, even if it is presented as "self policing" and a positive thing for the Greek community. Unless someone drives trucks of $$$ up to their door to make up for what they'll lose in new member fees - which at a large school like that isn't chicken feed.

While We as Greeks and I/Our Organizations Great Belefs are in place, They do not seem to be carried out.:(

There always seem to be a small minoritity of people who do not beleive in this Dicotomy.:mad:

Well, then it makes sense to either deal with the few or those that do not follow the dictums of a National HQ.

Do or die, is that the case? Yes it is!:(

What part do they not understand?:mad:

What Part Do We Not Understand?:rolleyes:

Good point, but I also see the flip side of the money issue - sooner or later, unfortunately this will probably happen in our lifetime - a national organization will be sued to such a degree that the entire organization folds. It almost happened to ATO just a couple of years ago. Several other national organizations are involved right now in multi-million dollar lawsuits. Either we make the changes internally, or a court may be the external influence to a "death sentence" on a national organization.

The moratorium idea isn't something resembling a panhellenic notion. If you have such absolutely rampant hazing on a campus that they cannot get ahold of it, a university could certainly request this sort of thing. Yes, of course national orgs would say, oh, but our $$, BUT, the point would be would they rather lose one term worth of new member fees or an entire chapter if a university decides to just bag a greek system all together? We can all say we know that universities have chucked greek life out more than once.

Just food for thought...not really anything more!

No it is a panhellenic notion. I don't understand total, quotas, and why you would pay thousands of dollars to create slide shows and skits. I don't understand why you would want to carpet bomb an entire system to try and fix it either. But then again I'm not in a sorority and don't care if you all want to do that to each other; it's when you propose to carry it onto the whole system including fraternities that I care.

The fact is that not everybody is hazing. The fact is that those that are hazing or have risk problems probably have it to different degrees and you can't just use the same solution for all. When you go to the doctor and say you have a pain in your leg, a cut, an infection does he provide you with the same medicine??

-Rudey

You're right, Rudey, not everyone is doing it. But, even though it is a small minority, greeks as a whole are paying a price in reputation, membership declines, and increased risk management insurance policy premiums.

It's quite obvious the status quo - workshops, closing problem chapters, and lawsuits, isn't fixing the problem, so something new needs to be done.

What would you propose we do differently to get rid of this cancer before it consumes an entire system?

My firm belief is that if greeks don't come up with something themselves, quick, then in five years or so max, we WILL see the loss of an entire national organization as the result of a lawsuit.

Our Michigan chapter was not only was taken apart and recolonized after a severe hazing incident, but there were changes to how we recruited on the campus and whom we recruited. I even heard rumors about how rushes from certain hometowns were looked at entirely in a different light to make sure we didn't take on the added risk.

Can AEPi's Michigan chapter boast? In 2003 (their webpage has that listed), they had the highest GPA on campus (3.4) and the highest new member GPA (3.688). Their chapter, since being refounded in the last few years, has also had athletes and football players as brothers.

A fraternity is very capable of monitoring its own chapters and forming its own solutions to the problem (solutions that fit). What it needs to do is really consider whether it wants to take on the risk of expanding at certain schools. If an entire campus drinks constantly, there is little reason to believe your chapter at that school will attract the "non-alcoholics". And if you do set up shop at a high risk school, then you have to really, really make sure that your brothers there are on track and educated on hazing and the collective shame we all bear when you take part in it.

But I'm sorry - I will never, ever accept another fraternity's solution to our problems. And unless sororities really come up with brilliant non-conventional thoughts to fraternity problems, I will laugh and scoff at their recommendations to be pan-hellenic and just outright punish everyone.

-Rudey

I think that's part of the problem - there needs to be more of a spirit of cooperation between chapters, as in Benjamin Franklin's "we must all hang together, for we shall surely hang separately" famous quote. Like I've said, we either come up with our own collective solution, or, we will certainly be given a solution by the campus or legislation, that will see the end of greek organizations. I'm not pointing a finger directly at you, Rudey, btw, but your perspective is one I hear all to often - yes, we need to have pride in our own GLO, but, at least on our respective campuses, especially on our campuses where several IFC or Panhel orgs reside, we have to work together to survive and thrive. There is a fine line between a good rivalry and intransigence.

So again, my question remains - it looks as though AEPi (keep in mind this is just ONE chapter on a large campus) turned it around, but, what could the whole greek (or narrow it to IFC if you prefer) system do together to fix this problem?

Let's look at 2 problems: Hazing and Drinking.

1) If you expand into a party school, know that these 2 problems are going to be there more throughout the student population and not just in Greek organizations. Many, many organizations just expand for the sake of expanding or want the prestige of numbers or chapters at big schools. I think this needs to be rethought since as a simple numbers game, no matter what these party school chapters will have more problems.

2) Different chapters have different policies. Some folks don't care if you drink. Some turn their heads and pretend nobody underage drinks. Some care only if you use kegs. Some are totally dry. Some are dry but drink at parties they hold at bars. I don't feel comfortable telling someone in another fraternity with a different policy how to address their problems. I don't think another chapter would just knock on my chapter's door one day and also ask for advice on how to stop their members from abusing alcohol to begin with. The same goes for hazing. Certain fraternities consider study hours hazing. Some consider scavenger hunts to be hazing. I, myself, consider anything you'd be ashamed to tell someone's mother to be hazing.

3) In a perfect world, we would all have large chapters with no problems. But it's not a perfect world. We have enough issues dealing with how to get brothers to be more active as seniors, to make sure rush goes well, that our alumni stay involved, etc. How could we possibly exert even more energy, time, and money to help? Many of us have been strong-armed into holding these workshops and you yourself think they don't work. What more can we even possibly do?

4) My solution is to concentrate more on the me and not on the we. It's not to say that fraternities shouldn't help each other out and work together, but it just says that we need to recognize that our problems are different and we can only come up with the solutions ourselves.

But again these are my thoughts. Am I right or wrong? I would think I'm right given the fact that fraternities still have not moved to the "we" approach.

-Rudey

I would hope that you eventually are wrong - I think you have the right perspective that it's the "me" approach right now - if greeks can't get to "we" to fix problems, then the external forces trying to shut us down may yet be victorious, to our own detriment.

Good dialogue so far! Anyone else feel like contributing? This is how problems get solved, folks.

By the way, is anyone else having problems posting? I get error messages, and have to submit twice to get anything on threads today....

"There seems to have been a slight problem with the GreekChat.com Forums database.
Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser.

An E-Mail has been dispatched to our Technical Staff, who you can also contact if the problem persists.

We apologise for any inconvenience."

John?

In your opinion, what else could we possibly do to work together?

I think schools really do need to take care of "party" problems among their own students as opposed to just targeting Greeks - maybe one day, enough Greeks will have influence to take the spotlight off us and put it on the school itself.

I think Pike alum, Firehouse, would have serious issues with fraternities policing each other too.

Yeah, I'm getting the same error when I post as well.

-Rudey

Wasn't this what greeks were known for in decades past? The leaders on campus? Now, by and large, we're seen as the irresponsible drunks or immature kids on campus - that needs to change.

I think the IFC or other groups should get together (a summit meeting for lack of a better term) and come up with their solutions (this would of course be a campus-by-campus solution - I doubt each solution could be exported to other campuses without revisions) - but that would be a start.

Basically, the Heads of National GLOs work together for the Betterment of Greek Organizations.

The problem always stems from the local level for "who is big dog".

This has happened on My Campus and I am sure you can see around the Country upon a lot of Campi.

So, the problem seems to be, How Do We as Greeks finally decide to work together not only on a National level or go to dust on a local level. Say if this was done, maybe the Insurance rates would go down for Risk Management.

Couldnt that Money be spent better at the Local and National level?


Just remember, for The Good That Greeks do for Charity, it is out weighed by the Things that happen in the negative.

There isn't a national organization that condones hazing or irresponsible drinking. It seems to me that those who do believe in hazing simply aren't going to change their minds about it no matter what anybody tells them. You end up hearing people on this board talking about "safe" hazing that creates unity, blah blah blah. There is no acceptable form of hazing, but there are still hazing attitudes out there. Most hazing incidents in GLOs these days are the actions/attitudes of a few of the members, unplanned by the chapter as a whole. It is up to each individual member in each GLO to do the responsible thing when they hear/see things to blow the whistle. Members with hazing attitudes need to be booted. Those who tend to have hazing attitudes also seem to be pretty powerful people and I think members become afraid to blow the whistle on them. I don't know how effective any of the programs are. There have been studies that have shown that even a death due to hazing or drinking on a campus only results in changed behavior of students for six weeks. I really don't know what the answer is. We tend to go through trends of increased hazing and drinking over the decades, then it slows way down again. Do we just have to try our best to keep it in check until it's no longer a cool thing to do?

Hazing is starting earlier and earlier as we're hearing so much about it in high schools. Sadly, I don't think the Greeks can change it on their own, but we have to set the bar high for our members and expect them to be role models for others.

I wish there was an easy answer. Is there anything that hasn't been tried?

Dee

After thinking about this some, I tend to fall on the side that individual fraternities should decide their own policy *within* the rules and regulations of the campus as well as local, state/province and federal laws. Yet I do agree that something needs to be done system wide or it may be done for us. Frankly, I'm just not sure what that might be yet.

Piggybacking on what Rudy said, I also feel that the campus culture needs to be addressed as well.

This ties in with what AGDee stated.
I feel all too often a whole Greek system is blamed and not the particular chapter that may be at fault. And more often, it's a particular individual(s) of a chapter.

So perhaps this is something every GLO should address. From the inter/national level down to the campus IFC (or other governing bodies) and on down to each individual chapter. How to weed out the bad members - starting with rush. And have in place a clear guideline for removal of those members that should not be a part of your fine organization.