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More Whacky Christian Marriage Antics

On Salon.com:

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A dispatch from the culture war
Gay Arkansans protest Gov. Mike Huckabee's hetero-only "Celebration of Marriage."
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By Michelle Goldberg

Feb. 15, 2005 | Holding on to her husband's arm, a middle-aged woman in a white wedding veil and sparkly makeup beamed as she walked past a cluster of protesters outside the Alltel Arena in Little Rock, Ark. The couple joined thousands of others, all streaming into the stadium for a Valentine's Day "Celebration of Marriage" hosted by Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee and his wife, Janet. Those who weren't welcome at the governor's celebration -- gay couples like Robert Loyd and John Schenck, together for 30 years and recently wed in Toronto -- took the event as a personal rebuke. After all, just a few months ago, Arkansas voted overwhelmingly to ban both gay marriage and domestic partnerships -- all in the name of preserving the institution of marriage.

"I can't marry my Valentine," said one sign. "Get a new Valentine," one woman, a celebrant, shouted as she walked in.

The Huckabees had invited every God-fearing heterosexual in the state to watch them upgrade their union into a "covenant marriage," a type of marriage that's very difficult to get out of. Covenant marriages are one of the right's attempts to shore up traditional matrimony, something that appears especially embattled in Bible Belt states like Arkansas, where divorce rates are soaring.

The sad state of marriage in Arkansas, which has America's third-highest divorce rate, led Huckabee, a former Baptist minister, to declare a "marital emergency" in 2000 and pledge to halve the number of divorces in a decade. As part of that effort, he pushed for the state's covenant marriage law, which essentially forecloses the option of no-fault divorce for participating couples. "Only when there has been a complete and total breach of the marital covenant commitment may a party seek a declaration that the marriage is no longer legally recognized," the 2001 law says. Such a breach can include physical abuse, imprisonment or "habitual drunkenness for one year."

People aren't exactly flocking to covenant marriages. Two other states, Louisiana and Arizona, also have such laws, but only a tiny percentage of couples are participating. Huckabee hopes to change that. Before his Valentine's Day rally, the governor toured the state with the co-host of the event, Dennis Rainey, head of the Arkansas-based ministry FamilyLife, a division of the Campus Crusade for Christ. Together, they encouraged pastors to refuse to perform noncovenant marriages in their churches. The churches, in turn, organized fleets of buses to take their congregants to Alltel for a kind of religious revival as scripted by Hallmark.

There's a contradiction at the heart of the marriage movement. In their zeal to "protect" marriage from gay people and divorce, religious right activists have fetishized it, promoting it as a source of boundless bliss that would make the authors of bodice-rippers blush even as they bemoan a society where people are too easily swayed by marriage's disappointments. "On the one hand they have this romanticized view of marriage, true love and putting the partner above everything, but another theme in this whole marriage movement is that you shouldn't expect so much from marriage, you should suck it up, stay together for the sake of the kids and recognize that marriage is a moral duty," says Stephanie Coontz, author of the forthcoming "Marriage, a History: From Obedience to Intimacy, or How Love Conquered Marriage."

"Your eyes must light up when your spouse enters the room," proclaimed Rabbi Daniel Lapin, who, in a gesture toward ecumenicism, was invited to give the opening speech at Huckabee's event. A close ally of the religious right, Lapin is a gray-bearded man with a British accent who seems to be striving to become the real-life Rabbi Bengelsdorf from Philip Roth's "The Plot Against America." Lapin said that marriage is needed to turn the "raw rock of male sexuality and aggression" into a beautiful work of art.

The highlight of the night was the Huckabees' conversion of their marriage and restatement of their vows, including Janet's pledge to "submit" to Mike. When they were done, they invited the audience to repeat their promises. Thousands of wives stood up and vowed to submit to thousands of husbands, and then thousands of people kissed and cheered.

There was only one interruption all night. During Huckabee's speech, a group of young activists unfurled banners saying "Queer Rights Now." As security guards moved in to hustle them out, two young men embraced. They stayed put as the rest of their group moved into the aisles, looking a little scared as they clung to each other as people jeered them and called for their arrest.

It was the most romantic thing I saw all night.

What. The. Fuck.

First off, why is it the government's business to try to lower the divorce rate? Shouldn't that be up to, say, the people who are married and disapprove of divorce?

Second, how in the hell is it the government's business to urge churches to do ANYTHING, let alone only perform certain types of marriages??? Last I checked, the marriage license you sign (which is where you pick regular or extra-crispy... sorry, covenanted) has nothing to do with the actual service you have performed. And isn't that blatantly mixing church and state against constitutional law?

Finally, it is fucking sick and wrong that the governor is sponsoring events so blatantly bigotted that peaceful gay rights protestors are mocked and insulted.

In conclusion, fuck the south.

Re: More Whacky Christian Marriage Antics

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Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi
In conclusion, fuck the south.

You're only allowed to be a state snob if you're from New York City (not state) and possibly (only in certain circumstances) if you're from California (the South since the North is a bunch of 3 eyed granola eaters).

-Rudey

Re: Re: More Whacky Christian Marriage Antics

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Originally posted by Rudey
You're only allowed to be a state snob if you're from New York City (not state) and possibly (only in certain circumstances) if you're from California (the South since the North is a bunch of 3 eyed granola eaters).

I can't argue with that sage observation.

Thanks, I say the same to the North and the rude people I have encountered up there. See? Sterotypes are not always true.

I am a Southerner, born and raised, my family has been down here for 200 years. I don't agree with this. In fact, I have several gay friends, men and women, and am actually an advisor for a local high school's Gay/Straight Alliance. The President of this GSA fought for a year against the school's FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes) and still gets posters torn down and is called a lesbian or a dyke in the hallways. She is straight.

Just to let you know that we don't appriciate generalizations, yes, there are people like that down here, but there also are up there. I live in a small Southern town with a population of 19,000 people during the school year and about 12,000 as a permenant population. Not that small, I know, but this is the deep south.

What I really meant to say is that I think that this is rediculous and I don't agree with it. Just got cought on a tangent I feel very strongly about, lol.

Re: More Whacky Christian Marriage Antics

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Originally posted by IowaStatePhiPsi

In conclusion, fuck the south.

Says the man from Iowa.

Re: Re: More Whacky Christian Marriage Antics

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Originally posted by ktsnake
Says the man from Iowa.

LOL um...

I think this is just stealth marketing for that I Heart Huckabee's movie.

I hate stealth marketing.

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Originally posted by 33girl
I think this is just stealth marketing for that I Heart Huckabee's movie.

I hate stealth marketing.

ROFL! http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmili...py/roflmao.gif

Question: Do evangelical churches require premarital seminars/counselling/classes for couples who wish to marry in the church? Some say that these classes lower (but do not erase) the divorce rate, since it makes sure that the couple is ready to marry.

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Originally posted by 33girl
I think this is just stealth marketing for that I Heart Huckabee's movie.

I hate stealth marketing.

I hate that movie! :mad:

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Originally posted by Taualumna
Question: Do evangelical churches require premarital seminars/counselling/classes for couples who wish to marry in the church? Some say that these classes lower (but do not erase) the divorce rate, since it makes sure that the couple is ready to marry.

Most churches do, but as with anything, there are exceptions.

Because people of the state have asked for it, states like Arkansas are giving its residents the OPTION to choose a covenant marriage (or to change their current license to a convenant one). Its not a requirement - the only difference between the two is a stamp on the marriage license.

These types of marriages make it harder for a couple to divorce (without first seeking counseling, etc.) since in most states its easier to get a divorce (no-fault, etc.) that it is to qualify for a hunting license. And of course, there are exceptions.

For more information on covenant marriages check out http://www.covenantmarriage.com

A different perspective....

Arkansas Governor and Wife to 'Covenant' Their Marriage in February

By Allie Martin and Jody Brown
November 16, 2004

(AgapePress) - Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee and his wife will be among hundreds of other couples from his state who will renew their wedding vows during a mass "Covenant Marriage" ceremony on Valentine's Day in Little Rock.

On February 14, 2005, Mike and Janet Huckabee -- parents of three grown children and married for 30 years -- will take advantage of the Covenant Marriage Act of 2001, which created an option for couples like the Huckabees. That legislation established "covenant marriages" in the Natural State -- which, according to the governor's website, consistently has one of the highest divorce rates in the country.

In an attempt to draw down that incidence of divorce, the state enacted the Covenant Marriage Act, which demands a deeper commitment from those entering marriage. Couples entering into a covenant marriage are required to agree to premarital counseling and a two-year "cooling off" period before a divorce can be granted (exceptions are provided in of abuse, abandonment, or adultery).

Excerpt from the article "Arkansas Governor and Wife to 'Covenant' Their Marriage in February"
http://www.covenantmarriage.com/ click under CM legislation for the article

Can any one give a better definition of a Covenant Marriage? That article didn't really explain it for me.

OH yeah . . . I can't even commit well enough to keep a plant alive (my cactus died from lack of water) someone sign me up for Covenant Marriage!

Actually its wierd . . its obviously religiously generated . . but there seems a hypocracy in using secular controls to foster a religious agenda.

Couples that want to stay together stay together. Many couples that would be better off not staying together, stay together.

I think the system is ahead . . . I think marriage has mostly suceeded in its aim . . to keep people together that would rather be apart. :p

Ever since this gay marriage debate really came into the mainstream, I've been wondering why the hell the government has anything to do with marriage? I can see them being involved in civil, secular unions between two people, but marriage?

In my R.E. classes, I was always taught that marriage was a covenant between the couple and God. So when did Uncle Sam decide to drop in and require his blessing?

Personally, I'd like to see the government get completely out of the marriage business. Semantically speaking, isn't that really a church thing? They should grant civil unions to any two people willing to pay the licensing fee.

I wanted a covenant marriage license only for the formalized commitment to my husband that if exhorbitantly tough times come, that neither of us bail out on each other "just because"...

But because we eloped in a state that does not have that kind of marriage license, we could not convert our current license to a "covenant" one from another state that does have that arrangement...

At least this is what the state of Arizona told us... On top of that, the state of Arizona told us that no need to pay more money for the covenent license, because folks can still do a "no fault" divorce, but the lawyers just get paid 10X more...

However, Spiritually speaking, I think covenants with your mate are a good thing... I couldn't care about your sexual orientation... But folks can still make some sort spiritual pact... Unless they are atheists or swingers...

Otherwise, I do agree with Ktsnake... Why is the government all up in this mess?

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Originally posted by AKA_Monet
I wanted a covenant marriage license only for the formalized commitment to my husband that if exhorbitantly tough times come, that neither of us bail out on each other "just because"...

However, Spiritually speaking, I think covenants with your mate are a good thing... I couldn't care about your sexual orientation... But folks can still make some sort spiritual pact... Unless they are atheists or swingers...

But isn't that what a marriage in a church is for? My whole understanding is that when I'm married in the church, there will be that spiritual pact.

Also, shouldn't it be assumed that when you marry someone, you're with them even through those "tough times?"

Not to pick on what you said, but it seems like those things are already a part of a marriage, with the covenant license or not.

Re: Re: More Whacky Christian Marriage Antics

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That was beautiful.....

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Originally posted by KSigkid
But isn't that what a marriage in a church is for? My whole understanding is that when I'm married in the church, there will be that spiritual pact.

Also, shouldn't it be assumed that when you marry someone, you're with them even through those "tough times?"

Not to pick on what you said, but it seems like those things are already a part of a marriage, with the covenant license or not.

KSigkid,

Yes, you would think that marriage should be a spiritual quest and staying in through the thick and thin of life without that need for a covenent marriage license...

The way I understand these licenses are: Covenent marriage licenses are written like prenuptuals... Prenups deal with property and ownership issues... Covenents deal with the partnership itself--much like how the court views a "S-corporation" or a "L.L.C.". Like if a major stakeholder wants to dump his or her owning share of the stakes--well, that has to be written with legalities included so that dumping can take place unless there is gross neglience...

I guess government folks were trying get folks to be more capitalistic or "business" oriented with their marital relationships because everytime one divorces, it does cost the state A LOT in legal fees and less taxes they collect...

For example: A married couple is more likely to own a house, that means more property taxes owed...

A married couple is more likely to fit into a higher tax bracket, that improves credit ratings...

A married couple is more likely to have investments, that means more money for municipalities and bonds, etc...

See where this is going... Why for the life of me, would folks have a huge problem with same sex marriages, purely just from the monetary perspective would this be a problem??? And so what, if they want the covenant marriage license--more power to them... Some churches where I live would make a ton of money on that point alone...

PM me so I could go into more detail...

But I do have some issue with your "Church" comment that goes outside of answering your question on this forum.

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Originally posted by AKA_Monet
At least this is what the state of Arizona told us... On top of that, the state of Arizona told us that no need to pay more money for the covenent license, because folks can still do a "no fault" divorce, but the lawyers just get paid 10X more...

Idiots working the state telling more idiots lies.

AKA_Monet,

I just sent you a PM...

Do I think these "covenant" marriages are necessary? No, because if you're really committed to the marriage---it's not necessary. It just seems like another layer of bureaucracy to make low-tier states like Arkansas feel better about having rotten divorce rates.

I am a commonwealth snob.

Re: Re: More Whacky Christian Marriage Antics

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Holy crap ....that was funny.:) :D I've been laughing for about 5 minutes on that one.