Teacher's salaries
 

So reading my local newspaper... my high school's teachers are threatening to go on strike. Currently, "the starting salary for a teacher with a master's degree at South Fayette is $39,250, approximately $3,500 above the county average, according to the school district.The average teacher's salary is $55,940 a year, with one-third of South Fayette teachers earning more than $75,000 a year."

I know this isn't normal across the country, but all of you complaining come teach in PA!

It's sad that the average teacher's salary from my HS is fairly likely to be more than i'll make starting out of law school.

and one third of them making over $75K???? :eek: :eek: it's no wonder the school taxes are so high!

Re: Teacher's salaries
 

Are you working in the non-profit sector or something?

-Rudey

Re: Teacher's salaries
 

Why is that sad?

sad to me, at least. I've had more education, paid a lot of money, etc. Didn't mean to offend the teachers on here. Plus these were my HS teachers, I know the quality of their teaching. Not to mention the cost of living being relatively low around here.

And Rudey, i'm looking to possibly clerk for an appellate judge. But the starting salaries around here, excluding the big firms, aren't all that great right now. Supply and demand... there's a glut of law students graduating, and less jobs to be had, so they can pay us less.

Not only that but people are really ignorant when it comes to "big paying positions" like doctors or lawyers. They think that they make a ton of $$$$ but what about all those school loans and loans from living on that need to be paid back? Plus most lawyers I know have zero social or personal life fresh out of law school. They gotta work a ton of hours to earn the cash.

A friend of mine is a teacher. She makes around $40,000 a year. She has a bachelor's degree, a master's degree and is working on a degree in counseling (if she becomes a counselor, she'll get a raise, I think). She sometimes calls me when she is on her way to work in the morning--around 6:30--or when she is on her way home from work--around 5:00, if she doesn't have to stay later than that for faculty meetings or for practice (she helps coach the jv cheerleaders). She has an amazing amount of pressure from parents and from the school & school board administration and the biggest piles of paperwork I've ever seen. I couldn't have been a teacher, especially now that I have seen what she has to deal with every day. She really loves working with kids, though. I think that teachers, especially those who have gone to school for upper level degrees should make just as much as other people who go to school for the same length of time. She and I were discussing it a few weeks ago...this is her 8th year of college, and she plans to get her doctorate later on.

I never understood why teachers whine and complain about salaries and whatnot.

I'm making half of what they are making and I don't get THREE WHOLE MONTHS OFF! (Yes I realize it's not paid, but still... it's 3 months off...)

Most all teachers I know (my mom and close friends included) don't teach because it's a big-shot high paying job. They do it because they love the kids, and because they like the feeling they get when they see the "lightbulb" when a child is learning and/or understanding something. :)

I think if they are getting more pay in your area, more power to them!

Without teachers we wouldn't have lawyers or doctors or anything like that.

Social Workers SHOULD make a lot of cash too, but like teachers, and any other "helping" profession, we are traditionally not valued in our society;) . If we were, we would be making a decent living wage. We also have to go through A LOT of schooling (and not easy stuff either!!) but still, so many people even in our profession who have not gone through grad school call themselves Social Workers, and my personal favorite "therapists", but they really shouldn't for obvious reasons. I only hope that one day those of us in the helping professions can finally be paid what we are worth.

I think this is a BS remark. Most teachers I know don't really "get off" in the summertime. In the summertime, they often have to take courses. Also, I don't think teachers are paid enough for what they have to go through. Try dealing with horrible parents and horrible kids all day long, and being blamed for it all.... I don't think many people can do it. My mom is a retired teacher and she woke up at 4AM every day, was at school by 7AM at the latest and stayed up until 11 at night working on lesson planning. I think ANY time off teachers get is well-deserved and I don't think I even hit the tip of the iceburg of what they go through. I knew someone was going to make that comment too!!!!

Teachers get paid pretty well in Michigan too. They can start out of college making around $32K in most districts. The thing is, they have to keep going to school to make any more. A bachelor's +10 credits of grad school =raise. Bachelor's +20=raise, Master's=raise, Specialist=raise, PhD=raise. The ones who make over $60K a year are PhD's. I think that PhD's deserve that kind of money. Their hours are grueling while in session, but the time off is great, especially if you're a mom yourself. You can save $5000 a year in latch key/child care bills once your kids are in school. I regret not going into teaching. I do love working with kids (and did so as an Occupational Therapist), I enjoy an academic environment, and I would like to do more of my work at home (grading papers) rather than having to stay late at my office. My kids' teachers are usually in their cars and out of the parking lot before my kids get out of the school BUT, they have a huge pile of papers with them too. It would be nice to have the flexibility to finish my work at home and not stay in the office so late. It would be great to work in the same building where my kids are in school so when they have headaches, asthma attacks, etc, I could just take care of it without driving 25 miles each way.

I think we should pay teachers as much money as we can. They are performing one of the most important occupations in this country.

Dee

The good teachers don't take the summers off...just like the good teachers are constantly going to classes to learn new techniques, going to workshops, etc.

However, there most definitely are teachers that take the summers off. Not every teacher put through the commitment that your mother did.

Find teaching jobs up North that are open. It's soooo much harder to find open jobs (as teachers) in the North.

And for those that are saying teachers get 3 months off during the summer...let me give you some info (I'm a teacher if you haven't figured that out yet)...

1. Teachers don't get paid during the SUMMER!!! So we get 25k-35k (starting) a year - but we do not get paid during the summer. It's so hard to go 3 months with out getting a pay check. You have to tuck away money all year long (so you really are making less each month than your check says). You have to get a job in the summer making peanuts - while still doing work to get ready for your kids.

2. Teachers usually put in at least 13-14 hours a day. I get to school at 7:30 AM and leave at 5:30 each day. Then at home, I grade papers or lesson plan for at least 3 hours. I'm a new teacher, so this will decrease as I get materials built up, etc.

3. And finally, there is such thing as year round school - I teach 9 weeks on, 3 weeks off (no summer) - and during my 3 weeks off - one of those week is spent planning (like at school planning days) and then I have two weeks off...which during those weeks, since I'm still a new teacher, I'm lesson planning at home. I'm trying to transfer to a traditional school...this schedule is killing me.

We do not get paid enough for what we have to put up with all day.

It would take me all night long to comment on this....I just got home, have to grade papers, work on my National Boards, prepare for Hoops for Heart, pay my bills, and take my medicine so hopefully I can get over bronchitis. Hopefully I will get a good nights sleep...I have to get up at 5 so I can be at school by 7:30.

Also to add on what WhiteDaisy said, there is year-round school, and even for school districts that do not have a year-round calendar, many teachers teach during the summer (since there is a thing called "summer school") On days that kids don't have school, many times teachers have 'staff development days' or workshops, so they still have to go to work.

I definitely agree with AGDee's statement: "I think we should pay teachers as much money as we can. They are performing one of the most important occupations in this country."

Wow.

I have friends from college who decided to go into teaching. They're making less than their last year of tuition cost, but obviously they don't feel they're entitled to more money because of how much they paid for college. Once you account for their BA, MEd, and whatever other enrichment courses they have to take--it's more than the 7 years of school an attorney has to attend.

So, some people have even more education and have paid even more money than you did--and they're (gasp!) teachers. Imagine that! :rolleyes:

Not from my high school. There are a couple PhDs, which I can totally understand being paid more money. But the highest most of them have is a masters, and being that a lot of them are from Pitt, that's one year of schooling after your BA.

About any hours they put in, etc. A few teachers did put in a lot of hours (and they're not the ones getting paid $75k... the ones getting paid over $75K are the ancient ones who don't do ANYTHING extra and who generally are NOT good teachers, but they can't be fired easily because of the unions). But most of them were out the door shortly after the dismissal bell. And I do know this as fact because I stayed after school almost every day for something or other. Most of them didn't do anything extra in the summer.

I'm entitled to my opinon, especially since it's MY school district in particular. No, I don't feel that 1/3 of them should be making over $75K. That's absurd, IN MY OPINION.

And you're entitled to your opinion. But i'm not putting on an attitude and getting nasty because I don't agree with your opinion. So chill!

And just because you "paid a lot for your education" doesn't make you holier than thou either, or deserving of a higher salary. There are many people I meet with a ton of degrees, and they don't know much more then what they read in some book. Some people are also afraid of actually going out into the real world and actually working too..........:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: . When I did my internship at a law school, I met MANY students who were like, on their THIRD degree at that point, still had no clue what they wanted to do, but felt they needed to make a ton of cash, AND felt they "were better" then teachers and those working in the helping professions because now they were getting a LAW DEGREE!!!!!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Did you ever stop to think that maybe some of the teachers who left early also have young children and families they are responsible for at home? Not every teacher has to be a soccer coach!!!! And like I did mention about my mom and most other teachers I know. They bring their work home with them at night.............

Hey, I haven't belittled anyone, I haven't made fun of anyone, haven't ripped on YOUR profession, etc., so lose the attitude. You have have a grown up discussion without the eye rolling at attitude

I said that many teachers left early, yes, because posters were saying what long hours teachers put in. A first grade teacher can't have that much work to correct, for instance. 30 tests of 2+2, spelling tests...

Most people in their professions put in long hours. A lot of people take their work home with them. Teachers aren't special in that regards.

With all the gripes i've heard from teachers on this message board, the more it makes me think that the teachers from my school district should appreciate how good they do have it. We were never short of supplies, we always had what we needed or wanted (i've seen that gripe around here a lot too). They get paid damn good money compared to teachers in other states, have great job security (AGAIN, for those of you who seem to think i'm attacking teachers everywhere, I am speaking of MY school district, which I know more about than anyone else on here), and great benefits. The teachers unions in this area are incredibly powerful.

I had some fabulous teachers. But I also had some teachers who were terrible. Just because you hold the position of teacher does not make you automatically a saint, deserving of a high salary, and above reproach.

Sweetie, first off if you plan to be a "lawyer" I'd get used to people having an attitude. Second, my mom taught second grade, as well as third, and it was a lot more than grading 30 papers of 2+2. If you don't know what you are talking about I'd do some research instead of making uninformed comments that are extremely generalized. And I've read many of your posts elsewhere which have extreme "attitude" in them so no, I am not changing my tone, nor my "attitude".

I think teachers should get paid more just for having to put up with the looney parents that are out there! My mom and my best friend are both teachers and the stories they've told me about some of these parents are unbelievable. They think their kids can do no wrong.

The fact is that none of us can make the across-the-board comment that any profession is free of freeloaders. We all know of lawyers, teachers, businesspeople, etc. who do not put in the hours necessary to do a good job or to rightfully earn their paycheck. There are good and bad examples in every profession.

KDDANI, I can see where you're coming from in that there are some teachers who simply collect a paycheck. I think most of us had teachers or knew of teachers along the way who were like that.

There were also many of us who have been lucky enough to have teachers (or parents, uncles/aunts, grandparents who were teachers) who spent long hours doing their job and helping their students.

Also...not to nitpick, but even lower-grade teachers can have a lot of work to do outside of the classroom. Correcting papers may be a small part of it, but it lesson planning for a group of younger children is a challenge. You not only have to hold their attention (which can be a full-time job in itself), but also develop a plan that will give them a solid base of knowledge. You're introducting previously foreign concepts to them, concepts that will serve as the foundation of their education from that point onward.

I think everyone on here has made good points; we just have to realize that there are other sides to the story.

When my kids were in 1st and 2nd grade, they did at least 10 different papers (math, handwriting, spelling, social studies, science, etc) a day. Multiplied by 20 students = 200 per DAY! All of them were graded and corrected by the teacher. Now that my daughter is older (5th grade) her teacher has them swap papers and correct their peers' papers for spelling and math, but she has the longer, more intensive tests and written papers to read. We get a packet of about 20 papers back every Monday. I think she corrects all of those on the weekend... over 400 papers per weekend could be daunting.

The gym teacher has it a little easier though.

Dee

Also more and more children are coming into classrooms with a great deal of problems. These can be anything from problems at home to severe learning disabilities or a combo of both. Teachers take the heat from parents who are in denial about their child, if they even get to work with the parent at all. Also teaching nowadays is not like when many of us were in school. It isn't about creativity anymore, it is about preparing for standardized tests. Classrooms in general are overcrowded and from what I have been told, many special-needs children are just being placed in the regular classrooms with not much support. And you can forget about Social Workers being available to help out with difficult cases. Everyone I speak to who is a teacher said this is the first position that is cut due to low budgets. And also, in many cases, one Social Worker is expected to be shared from k-12 in one school district. I think that no matter what profession we go into we are going to have difficulty and think that other professions have it easier then us, but I get really heated because it always seems that people are quick to jump on the professions of teaching and the helping professions. Not to pick on the lawyers on this board but when I did my internship at a law school, all of us in the Social Work program wanted to start a support group and individual counseling for many of the law students and lawyers themselves because of the many different issues they were going through.

HAHAHAHAHA you'll never understand? I get up at 5 and sometimes go to bed by midnight......after all the coaching and grading and preparing for the next day is done, and trying to help the junior class get their prom together that is in a month and a half, and getting a bite to eat in there somewhere. I barely make 30,000. OH, and then I have to drive almost 2 hours so that I can finish up school for myself. We have more contact with kids than most parents do during the school year. THEN we get to put up with parents if they think we looked at their baby the wrong way. If we didn't get three months off, there would probably not be ANY teachers left on the planet. OH and it is a paid 3 months. I think those three months make up for all the extra crap we have to do during the school year.

/soapbox

whoa...this gym teacher gives written assignment just like the classroom teacher, teach Red Cross first aid and cpr, health, and intergrates her lessons with what the classroom teachers are teaching...the 7th is learning about Native Americans, great...we will learn about what Native American did for recreation, what muscle groups were used in those activies, learn about their diet, health problems, and how their lifestyle has influenced ours. Keep in mind that my class has an average of 40+ students. (good) Physical Education is not all about throwing out some basketballs. I tie in math into my lessons as much as I can. I took several nursing level classes, lots of science and math, and several other required classes that were not sport related...not to mention the general teacher ed. classes. Hopefully my students will learn a lifetime sport while in my class and continue participating in it. Maybe then, the rate of heart problems, diabetes, and other conditions that are related to being overweight/unactive will decline.

The same thing can be said for the legal profession, too.

Ah, no shit, never claimed to be any of the above. But everyone is making teachers out, in this thread at least, to be what I said. But they're not. In an ideal world, they would be, but there's no ideal world.

The teachers on GC have taught me that there are schools out there where the teachers work for peanuts, have to buy a lot of their own supplies, etc. And that sucks. Which is why I was so flabbergasted that the teachers in my school district make more than many college professors do. Like I said, after reading what some of you have had to deal with as teachers, I wish that teachers in my school district would realize how fortunate they truly are.

Okay, you want to get personal? There's no reason to have an attitude on an internet message board where there's somewhat of a rational discussion going on. Being a lawyer and being on an internet message board are too different things. They have nothing to do with another. And where I'm going to practice, people don't have that much of an attitude. It's called professionalism.
I'm not even going to comment on what I think of most of your posts on this message board. It has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Yep, I can have an attitude myself on here. So what? Mainly it's towards people attacking GCers, to people making racist or otherwise widely unacceptable comments. No towards people having an actual rational discussion.

that's nice, but doesn't really have anything to do with anything. Every group has problems. Most people have some sort of issue in their lives that they could use help dealing with.

Kddani,
In your original post you seemed to be complaining about the fact that the average teacher (who probably has at least a master degree and has probably been teaching for quite a few years) is possibly going to get paid more then you will with no previous work experience and a law school degree.
You also seemed to be complaining about the high school taxes in your area. Which you I quess believe are unfair or are not "worth it."
Well, my response to that is you can't have everything! You can't have low school taxes and good schools. You can't attract talented people (who if they are genuinely talented have other career options) to this field if you don't pay them well. That money has to come from school taxes. If you want teachers who aren't the bottom of the barrel then you have to compete with other sectors of the economy.
I would rather have somebody teaching my child who had said "I'm not going to go to law school, I think I'll teach ... because I still have the chance to make a decent salary and I really want to do it," than someone who said "I can't get into law school, I think I'll teach .. because nobody else is applying for teaching jobs."
Personally, if you are willing to sacrifice good schools for lower taxes that is your business and is a decision your community can make but if you do decide to have kids you'll just end up paying it in private school tuition.
Also, I just want to note... you seem to be complaining that you won't be making money because your considering clerking for a judge. I agree with you that for the ONE year you clerk you'll be making a smaller than average salary but once you have that very prestigous credential completed, you will be compensated very well for a LONG time for the sacrifice you made. This is what teachers make ... Period. They don't go on to high paying jobs after their one year clerkship.

Actually the figures that I posted were from my school district, the teachers who actually taught me. They start off at $39K and can go over $75K, at least for the moment. Over the years, their contract negotiations will make it go up.

A lot of people in our community are shocked... my initial shock was comparing it to what my salary may be. Yes, I want to clerk for a judge, but even if I wasn't, the salaries for attorneys starting out in anything but the big firms are not what people think they are. You'd be damn lucky to see $75K, and likely will see $45-55K. And clerking isn't as prestigious of a job as it seems... especially with the economy

Since it was my own school district that I was raised and educated in, and keep up with fairly well, I know the quality of the education. For $75K, those teachers should've taught myself and the rest of my classmates how to write before I got to college... thankfully I had great college teachers my first year who helped me out a lot.

What I was trying to say is that I agree that you may be making less that what the average teacher in your area makes and only slightly more than a brand new teacher but your potential to make more goes up a lot higher and faster.
Teachers in your district can go up to 75K, five years from now maybe it will go up to 80 or 85K, and they've probably been working 15 to 30 years.
The national average TODAY for a fifth year associate in a small law firm is 80K. Even if your area is somewhat salary depressed, you'll be making about as much as the most senior teacher in your district within five years. As an eigth year associate at a small firm you'll be making 100K. And you'll only be about 33!

Interesting info... just curious, where did you get those numbers from?

Just because you are talking about "your" particular school district doesn't mean that your school district is unlike many other school districts throughout the country. In reading your posts, the underlying theme appears to be "Teachers in general shouldn't be making this amount of money". Don't act too surprised when people are going to point out that you are missing a lot of facts. When you start a negative thread like this, don't be shocked to be hit with a huge dose of attitude. And also, I don't think many of your posts are what you can call "rational". You aren't really living in reality with what you've posted..........And this isn't only you. Many people in our society have this attitude and ignorance. I hope you can use this thread to educate yourself, as well as everyone who may have this same misunderstanding about teaching and the helping professions, to better educate themselves before speaking. Lastly, you have pointed out on an internet message board that you will be a lawyer and not be making the same amount of $$$$, so I think it very well ties into the discussion and is relevant, "not two different things".

I got it from NALP (The National Association for Law Placement). If you are looking for salary info for your job search and/or employer hiring info they are really great. It's www.nalp.org

That's not true. Being a lawyer or doctor is the lazy way to becoming well off. The salary you make after your education helps you pay off your loans quite easily. However, if you want to get stinking rich younger then there is a higher opportunity cost for you to give up making money to attend school. Not many people are in that position though.

And it's not fair to say people who work long hours don't have personal lives.

-Rudey

Here's some experience.

Both of my Brothers-in-Law are attorneys from reasonably large, prestegious firms. The are handsomely compenstated and often put in long hours -- most of which are billable. Their compensation has grown dramatically. Back in the mid 70's, one of them was making well into six figures yearly.

Mrs. DeltAlum was a teacher for several years when we were first married -- during the same time frame. She was up at 6:00 in order to be at school by 7:00. If she wasn't directing a play, she was generally home by 5:00 or so -- but then graded papers until 10. She taught four different classes -- Freshman English, Junior English, Speech and Theatre and Remedial Freshman English. That made for four separate preparations per night. She was paid $6,700 per year.

She spent her summers taking classes toward maintaining certifications and advance degrees -- which, of course, we paid for out of our own pocket.

For six weeks or so of five night a week, two to three hour long play rehearsals, she received an additional $400.

Her Principal and Superintendent were both former coachs -- and one was a former school bus driver.

She had a knife pulled on her in class. This was in a suburban school in 1970 or so.

Later, she taught in a Catholic high school for emotionally challanged adolescent teenage girls. Most had children and many had police records.

If she were still teaching, I would hope she would be making at least $75K -- but she might not here in Colorado.

In my opinion, you can't pay teachers enough. We chose the place we live in Colorado because the school system there is/was considered the best in the state and supposedly one of the best in the country (however you figure that out and define it). Interestingly, the teachers there aren't among the highest paid in the state. They work there because of the resources and the type of students they get. We vote "yes" on every mill levy and increase.

Especially give the problems in American education, who can be more important than the people in whom we trust the education of our future generations?

I have 3 close friends who teach kindergarten. I even had the privilage to actually go to one of their classrooms to be a 'helper' for a day... and I can honestly say I couldn't do what she does everyday. In her district she has 2 seperate classes - one in the morning, and one in the afternoon. That makes about 60 pages to grade for just one assignment, and they go through several a day. And it's honestly more than 2+2 stuff. They also have to fill out progress reports, report cards, and on top of lesson planning and everything else they have to do.

Could you go into a law office and do what lawyers do every day?

Could you lay bricks or do some gardening like those guys do every day?

Also, what you can do and are qualified to do are different. Many people can become teachers or gardeners, but not everyone can be a lawyer or a rocket scientist (not that the two are the same and no offense to lawyers, but I dislike lawyers just because they make things difficult).

-Rudey

That's awesome! My kids' gym teacher doesn't do any of that. No Red Cross, no paper assignments. They do 20 minutes of calisthenics, 10 minutes of running (either laps in the gym or around the school, depending on weather) and then 15 minutes of the sport of the month (football, soccer, volleyball, etc.) Hopefully they get more of the kinds of things you're talking about in middle school.

it's not so much of something I couldn't physically do.. just something I couldn't do. Anyone can go to school, and be a lawyer or teacher or bricklayer or gardener, but dealing with crazy parents, crazy kids (sometimes :p) and having to do a ton of work for not very much pay... I couldn't do it. As much as I love kids and as much as I would love to help them, I couldn't deal with all that and still be underappreciated by many folks.