How long should you be "talking?"
 

OK here's my scenario and I'm pretty much clueless as to what this guy (I'll call him John) is thinking.

I met John back in the fall when he took me to his date party randomly - he just asked me at a bar one night after seeing me up at his house during fraternity rush. I went to his date party and had an awesome time, but I had a boyfriend at the time so nothing really came of it. We traded calls fall semester for awhile like "what are you up to tonight?" type calls but never really hung out again except when I'd run into him out at night.
This semester I'm single and we started hanging out my first week back at school. We hooked up (only made out) one night and he spent the night, and since then we've been hanging out all the time. He always says he likes me but I get mixed signals from him. He took me out to dinner once and I think that was only because I made a comment about how we never hang out in public or anything. We sleep at eachother's places all the time and we've established that we're "talking."
This past weekend he took me to another one of his date parties, and while we were there I drunkenly told him I wanted to be with him, which I definitely do. He said he really liked me but didn't want to force anything and he doesn't want a girlfriend, so we left it at that for the night.
Then last night I was all tired and kinda picked a fight about it. I told him I felt like he was saying I wasn't good enough to be his girlfriend. He always says how much he likes me, and if you like someone, why wouldn't you want to be with them? He said we don't need any labels and why couldn't I just be happy with hanging out and hooking up and knowing we both like eachother? I said I didn't want to waste my time if he wasn't looking for a girlfriend and I wasn't sure if we should keep hanging out, and he got really pissed. We ultimately just left it as we'd take things day by day, which I'm not 100% happy with but whatever. This morning he was like, "Please don't ever pull that again, don't be gay about things with us, I like you and don't want to lose you." THEN he told me that at his date party, he knew he wanted to be with me, but he didn't want to say anything while we were drunk. And he said I pushed our relationship back with that talk and now he isn't so sure.
Did I blow my chances and make him think I'm psycho?? How do I play my cards from here on out? I like him a lot but is he just stringing me along?

Sorry this post is so long.. I always get myself into complicated situations!

I'm gonna put a couple things out there:

1) I didn't read what you had to write. It would probably bore me a lot and also I hate really long posts that don't space things out.

2) None of this stuff matters. He's probably just trying to hit it and you just want a relationship, and if it's not him for you, and if it's not you for him, then it's someone else.

So I don't know what the problem is but I think I solved it.

-Rudey
--Yup, I did done that.

He's just not that into you.

(I'm never going to get sick of telling people that.)

It's not that tough, though. If he wanted to date you, he would already be dating you. He pulls that "I was going to ask you to go out with me but now you blew it" isht because he knows it'll keep you around waiting for him to decide to date you, and while you're waiting he gets to hook up with you. What you have to decide is if you would rather have a physical relationship with him, knowing that you have a 90 percent chance that he will never make it official . . . or if you would rather cut your losses and move on to somebody who's willing to make that commitment.

What fraternity is he in? I bet I know! ;) All the boys in one particular fraternity at my undergrad all acted that exact same way.

Anyways, I think he's just trying to have his cake and eat it too. Forget him and find someone who will appreciate you.

Damnit, you guys just confirmed my suspicions. :(

Truer words have never been spoken. I know from experiece. I recommend reading "he's just not that into you". It did wonders for me. Sure I still make a few retarded mistakes every know and then, but overall it has really given me a new perspective on relationships.

A book every woman should read.

so in essence let me tell you what he did to you.

he doesnt want to be with you, but he manipulated you into believe that YOU blew it. so now you still like him and will always wonder what the hell you did. and you will continue to hook up with him.

this is a trick only Jedi pimps can pull off.

this trick works. trust me. I use it on Rudeys mother all the time.

-Bobby
-- Yeah bitch, I'm doing this.

Damn, I used to be such a jedi pimp back in the day.

Yea, I agree. He pulled the 180 because you had the courage to bring it up to him. Guys and girls do this to avoid responsibility for the other's feelings.

Honestly though, you knew the answer before you asked. No guy is going to be forced into a relationship and if he was looking for one, he would have asked you. You're just a booty-call, plain and simple. My advice is to go with the flow and enjoy hanging out or cut ties and find your boyfriend.

Take a step back and look at the drama that has unfolded. If this is how the two of you get along before a relationship starts, how much better do you think it will be if you do end up dating? This is not a match made in heaven, sorry for my bluntness.


RUgreek

That was my immediate reaction upon reading the original post and I am bummed out that ya'll beat me to it.

Dee

I would say the same thing about him just not being into you if I hadn't been in a similar situation. My current boyfriend & I were "talking" (friends with benefits) almost continuously for a year & then I told him that I wanted to be just friends & he practically begged me to be his girlfriend, confessed his love for me, etc. I never thought that day would come & I was emotionally unprepared for it-but for a whole year he always told me that he liked me but didn't want a girlfriend.

Exactly...it happens a lot, and it looks like that's what's happened here.

Also - what does it mean when people are "talking?" That sounds a whole lot like negotiating, and I don't feel like there should be "negotiating" or "talking" before going into a relationship. It should just happen. Maybe that's just me though.

I don't know, you guys could just be dating. Does anyone simply date anymore?

I'm in a situation like that right now. I'm dating a boy. We hook up, we hang out, we go on dates. I like him, I’m exclusive, but I'm not his girlfriend. I'd probably freak out if he called me his girlfriend -- just like your guy did. I mean, I might become his girlfriend (or not since I'm moving across the country in 6 months), but the point is that I'm not shutting out the possibility, I just don't want the boyfriend/girlfriend terminology and commitment rearing it's ugly head right this second. Clearly, you aren't cool with the arrangement you have, so you should go find someone who wants a girlfriend.

In the future, make boys take you on dates. Real dates. Suggest dinner, movie or a play on campus. Be so busy that you can’t hang out whenever they want you to. Make them schedule a real event to get on your calendar.

Don't give advice like this. It makes dating cost us a lot more money and forces to invest a lot more time and effort into it . . . :(

We like it easy . . ..

Exactly. I don't put up with stuff like that. I just move on to the next chick that thinks 'dating' is meeting at a bar and hooking up that night.;)

Well I have a little update on the whole situation. He came over last night and I was talking about how my parents are coming to see me this weekend. He was like, "so am I good enough to meet your parents?" and I was like "Um I don't know, do you want to?" and he just kinda laughed and was like, "I don't know, then they might love me." I don't think I want to introduce him to my parents because I don't know how I would- like "Hey Mom, this is John, the guy I'm hanging out and hooking up with!" and I don't want her to get all involved in it like she usually tries to. Then later on in the night he brought up the relationship talk again and kinda said like "well do you just wanna be my girlfriend?" and I said "No, not if you're going to ask like that, just forget it, you told me where you stand" and then he acted like I had been all hurtful and rejected him. I only said that because he seemed like he asked in a joking matter AND he had been drinking earlier and even thoguh I don't think he was drunk, I don't want things to be like that.

Everyone's posts are really making me consider just breaking this off if he doesn't want me as a girlfriend. Are ultimatums (sp?) a bad thing?

Yes. If you give an ultimatum, then if he says he wants you to be his girlfriend, you'll never know if that's what he REALLY wants or if he just gave into pressure. Don't do it. Either walk away or accept things as they are for now and see what happens but DO NOT introduce him to your mother.

Get rid of him. If someone isn't willing to give you what you want and deserve, don't waste your time hoping that they will "come around." If someone wants to be with you, they will be with you. PERIOD. And if they don't, they won't! I know it's easier said than done, but looking back at my pre-marriage relationships I realize I'd have saved myself a lot of heartache if I'd just stopped making excuses for boys!

I don't think it's about anger (for some it may be!) but about being realistic....there are tons of great guys out there, and tons of crappy ones, and sometimes it's too easy for people to make excuses for bad behavior and blind themselves to the difference.

BIG HUG

-Rudey
--I've found big hugs help on Greekchat!

You are acting like 12 years old . . . or ok maybe 16. This is one of those situations where if both parties just said what they meant, sans the sarcasm and double-talk everything would be clear.

You were supposed to have grown out of that type of behavior in high school. However, you are not alone, most people keep doing it their entire lives.

If he is treating you well and you like him, the only question you need to ask is whether you can handle having a good relationship without the title.

If the title is the clincher for you, which is fine, then you have to bail because you have already screwed things up by giving him stupid attitude instead of just saying what you meant and leaving it at that.

Valkyrie is right, ultimatums are abad idea. But what you have been doing is likewise bad, you are using negative emotion to manipulate him into asking you to "go steady". Everytime the topic comes up and he doesn't ask you you "punish" him with more bad attitude.

So even if he asks you out now, you won't know whether its really because he wants you, is afraid to lose you, or feels guilty or miserable because of the attitude you are giving him.

Why do you girls (some) have to ruin good things with such inept people skills?

Also, just as an aside, I wonder if he holds it against you that you were mentally cheating on your last boyfriend with him . . .. I am sure any of his friends would have spotted that and thought it was "beat."

I don't understand what else she "deserves?" He is treating her well, they are having a good time. He is just not giving it a title. Is the title that much of a clincher for all of you that you want to ditch a good relationship? If so why?

i personally dont think that "talking" to someone is a good idea. it usually never leads to anything good .... and its just a cop out for either person to hook up with other people, too. -- because you know half the time you arent really exclusive when your "talking".
WVU Alpha Phi - you should just let him go. he sounds like hes not that good of a guy if hes pinning things on you. theres plenty of other BETTER guys out there that wont play head games with you, and you deserve it! :)
so - just stop thinking you did something wrong, and stop thinking of how you can save you and him - and find a neeeew guy :) im sure it'll be worth it once you find someone else!!!

If she wants to be in a relationship (which it appears she does!), then she "deserves" someone who will call her a girlfriend and be in a committed relationship, not someone she is "talking" to, "hooking up" with, "f-- buddies" with, or whatever other euphemism you want to throw on the scenario. Whether this guy is "treating her well" or not, it doesn't seem that he's giving her the committed relationship she wants!

I'm confused by this. Did I leave the impression that I was "mentally cheating" on my last boyfriend?

I didn't get that impression!

Look, you're not dumb, you can see through his b.s. and realize that even if you guys do start a relationship, this is the kind of attitude you'll have to deal with from him. From the sounds of it, you derserve a whole lot better and inside you are not interested in a crappy relationship.

So here are your options, date him and try to change his behavior (men love this scenario). Or give him to the sloppy seconds pigpen outside your door. In either case, it would be too soon to introduce to your parents other than the soon-to-be-fuck buddy. Hey, if he's around long enough, they'll get to meet him, but don't let his ego contaminate your birth givers.

Have fun this weekend.


RUgreek

LOL that's a good point. Even though I'd like to think if he did meet my parents, he would tone down the ego. But who knows with him!

After reading everyone's input, I think I have decided that it isn't working and I shouldn't waste my time anymore. But he's coming to my date party on the 12th (I asked him a little over a week ago, before all this BS) and I don't think I can un-invite him. I'll probably stick it out till then and then just tell him that whatever we have is over. That should be a fun coversation.

As a little update.. last night I completely called things off with him. He was over the night before that completely wasted and I was sober, which isn't a big deal, except he was being a mean drunk. He was even like, "F*ck you" and I was like, "Who the hell says that to a girl?" and he's like, "I do." I know he was drunk, but still, that was so rude and uncalled for and I think I realized then that it wasn't going to work.
So last night he came over before their chapter drink and we fooled around for a little and he kept asking if we could have sex. That's after I've told him a ton of times that I'm not sleeping with someone I'm not with. So I was kinda upset and he asked wat was wrong and I just told him everything. Shit hit the fan and he was flat out like, "Well, if you want a boyfriend, you're looking at the wrong guy" and I got all angry and asked why he even bothered to hang out with me then and he's like, "What you think I don't want to date you?" HE IS SO CONFUSING! So it pretty much ended with him telling me to find another date for my date party this weekend and me saying that if we weren't going to be together, that was it. Then he left for his chapter drink, where they had hired strippers from Pittsburgh so I can onl iagine the stuff he got into there.

I was pretty upset about it last night but I'm doing a little better. I'm still just hurt though because I feel like he led me on for a month and then flat out told me we'd never be anything more. :(

How did he lead you on? I thought the whole problem was that he said that he liked you but told you he didn't want anything serious with you?

I mean ladies, if a guy tells you that flat out, what are you thinking?

I took it as him leading me on because he says something like that, and then follows up with, "I'm not saying we'll NEVER date.." so it kinda leaves me with the little piece of hope. I just wish he'd flat out say no, that's it, never, or say he can see it going somewhere.

that's what always gets girls in trouble.. that little piece of hope. if it's really that little, why hang on to it? That's just what guys say to keep you around as long as you will hang around.

Ok, i'm going to be the brutal one again, because this is crazy. He comes over, tells you to go fuck youself, the following night you STILL fool around with him, and you call him confusing, finally actually fanatasizing about him screwing around with other women.

You need to get a fresh dose of self-esteem because I don't see one g-d damn reason why you should shed one tear over this guy. However, I am not you and don't know the circumstances of this relationship besides what you post. My problem is why ladies subject themselves to torture after they say they are through?

This is not over, I am predicting a cooling off period followed by some makeup sex. He'll seduce you with the magic words that you want to believe and the cycle of mental anguish will continue.

Look, being alone doesn't have to be you and a bag of chips on the couch. So you broke up with a guy, get off your ass and keep yourself busy. The fact that you excuse his behavior so quickly (regardless of his drunkeness) is a sign that you are not really following your heart yet.

Damn, some of you girls are way too needy...

This is EXCELLENT advice. I think self respect is a big issue. I always told myself I try and be a good person and a good christian. I may not always succeed but I always TRY. So I figured I deserved better than being "strung along" Most anyone does. If he didn't want to commit, it was just his loss :)

Well, as your sister, I was going to say something like RUgreek but obviously in a much nicer way.

Don't go near this guy again. All he wants is sex. ALL HE WANTS IS SEX. And if you don't want to have sex with a guy who isn't your boyfriend, then don't compromise for this guy who isn't going to make you happy.

I'm sure he's lots of fun. One of my friends back in junior high/high school was lots of fun, but she treated me and another girl like dirt and was always talking shit about us behind our backs, and finally tried to steal both of our boyfriends at once. I cut off all contact with her, because I realized that being fun to be around wasn't worth all the other crap I had to deal with. THIS GUY ISN'T WORTH IT. Fun /= Happy.

And P.S. Don't listen to anything that James tells you regarding relationships. :p

honey, be glad it's ONLY a month! it could have been years. chalk it up to a learning experience and move on!

if you want an exclusive boyfriend, and the guy you like doesn't want a girlfriend, there is NOTHING you can do about it!

and any guy who curses at a woman, drunk or not, needs to be shown the door. NO WOMAN deserves a guy like that.

What about girls that curse at guys? Or yell at them? Or raise their voice?

yelling and raising your voice are one thing. cursing and verbal abuse shouldn't be tolerated by anyone--guy or girl. it definitely should go both ways. i won't tolerate that crap from my boyfriend, and he certainly doesn't accept it from me.

(how you doing by the way--long time no speak!)

I am doing well, what about you? Still frequenting Irish Pubs? :p

As far as cursing and what not, I label raising your voice andyelling as forms of verbal abuse and not to be tolerated . . . I thought everyone else did as well?

Do you mean a lot of you think its ok to yell, get loud and/or scream when you are angry at someone?